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Alright, I've finally got some time and a faint spark of interest (which with a lot of patience, work, and optimism, I can kindle into a somewhat self-sustaining flare of something approaching a fuck to give.) So, based on this thread, I may give it a shot.
Considering that you still don't seem to be convinced the Zerg could ever change into something else, I'm unsure if you'll find the read worth it.
Oh god, this book...
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Wow, that sucks...Quote:
Originally Posted by Visions of Khas
Ah, sure, a lot of "lore holes". All of them can be fixed by saying "we don't have the whole picture" or "it was just the character's perspective".
Seems Zahn isn't super familiar with SC lore. He knew most of what he needed to know, though.
The plot holes are also there.
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But overall, I'm very happy with where they're taking the lore. I just hope they keep up to the potential of it.
well Uvula did say that protoss telekinesis is different, at least i remember him saying something like that
To keep myself from having an aneurysm, I head canon'd the situation as, "The Protoss want to see if Ghosts can use this in the field as a good will gesture from the Protoss," and Uvula likes playing fetch with Terrans.
I really didn't understand that. I had originally thought virtually all the Protoss had that ability. Granted I don't think we really got to see it, but that retcon was plain BSQuote:
Originally Posted by Visions of Khas
The Q here is would people have BOTHERED asking him about the caste, though you can argue this is just plain lazy.Quote:
Originally Posted by TcheQuevara
Now, as for asking for reinforcements, this is the part Zahn got right in that both the Daelaam and the Dominion military are still in a terrible state, despite 6 years have passed since Amon's defeat in LotV. It's a hell of a lot better than what we got in WoL, in the Dominion rebuilt so quickly after what was done in BW.
How? All you need to do is move an object, it seems simple enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoar
What he wished was for me to find and identify a Dominion ghost of a specific psionic power. Tanya clenched her teeth. So she hadn’t been a friend to him, or even an unknowing information source. All she’d been was some sort of high-stakes door prize. Let me guess. Something that had rarely been seen before, maybe? Like pyrokinesis? Ulavu inclined his head to the side. No. For a second Tanya thought she’d misunderstood. No? No, he said reluctantly. I was sent to locate and befriend a telekinetic. Tanya felt as if the floor had just been pulled out from under her. She hadn’t even been a door prize? What are you talking about? There are two teeks in the program right now. What was wrong with them? He was silent so long that she started to wonder if she’d lost contact. I did not wish them as friends, he said at last. They are not… good souls. And now he was going to presume to judge all of humanity? This just got better and better. They are perfectly acceptable souls, she shot back. Are they? She scowled. No, damn it all, they really weren’t. Glistrup was manic depressive and a compulsive liar, while Mai was just an all-around mean person. No one liked them. Still, they were competent enough teeks, if somewhat low-power. So what did you want with them? The protoss have developed a new weapon, Ulavu said evasively. Of only minor tactical use, but of interest to a number of us. It was hoped a terran telekinetic would be useful in its deployment, as the human version of that ability carries unique characteristics not found in protoss. We wished to explore what could be achieved through a partnership with such a terran.
Chapter 14
Zahn, Timothy. StarCraft: Evolution (pp. 192-193). Random House Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.
there went and found the quote, would have liked him to elaborate a little more about the difference but there it is
^---much better. Thank u.
^----- Still doesn't obviate that Uvula doesn't have telekinesis. Or what makes Terran TK so special.
^-----sc lore is a joke these days so I take what I can get :(
Like I said, it would have been nice for him to elaborate a bit more on the differences.
They probably felt it wasn't necessary for the book. While true, I still hope this is explained in a future SC book, whenever that'll be.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoar
The difference is probably that Protoss can only levitate themselves but not other things.
Well that would be a logical assumption given the limited information.
That's plain BS. All that psionic power and they can't even lift a pebble with their minds.Quote:
Originally Posted by Turalyon
If High Templars can create psionic storms then I don't see why they can't levitate other things. It's basically the same thing but to different levels. Maybe the physical manifestation of protoss psychic abilities are formed from vectors of conic shapes with piercing characteristics while the Terran could be cubic vectors with pushing characteristics. So when Protoss use their powers it results like this:Quote:
Originally Posted by Turalyon
>>>>>> 'object'
while for the Terran it would be like this
||||||||| 'object'
Then you can start imagining how it would be harder(but not impossible) for a protoss to easily levitate something other than their own body while it would be easier for Terrans. A protoss would basically have to send multiple conic vectors at specific positions to levitate the object while a Terran would simply need to enlarge the area of his psionic vector. So, even if Protoss are able to send out a bigger and more controlled psionic output, Terrans would have a fundamental advantage anyways when it comes to levitating other objects.
I'm not sure what would be the biological differences that make the psionic manifestations different though but I don't think this needs an explanation.
Anyways, I don't know, I'm making stuff up and I'm pretty sure it was just a mistake from the author.
Well, Blizzard seems pretty intent on castrating the Protoss in every way, shape and form. They've assumed this Tolkien-style mindset with regard to the Protoss as the "Elves" in the StarCraft universe; their time has past and they're on the way out. Somehow, the manipulation of the Protoss by Amon was somehow more "severe" than used on the Zerg. The Zerg are redeemed, while the Protoss are intentionally left to whither.Quote:
Anyways, I don't know, I'm making stuff up and I'm pretty sure it was just a mistake from the author.
Yet I believe there's potential for the Protoss renaissance: some among the Tal'darim retain their nerve cords. If taught the art of the Khala, the defected Tal'darim could overcome the "marred essence" of their race and attain true Perfection of Form. (My head-canon called them Dawn Templar or Dusk Templar. :3 ) Moreover, it's stated time and again that the Khaydarin possess power that could elevate the Protoss to new heights, but for SOME REASON the Protoss REFUSE to make use of it. Ugh.
The trouble with the khaydarins is that it's never explicitly defined what exactly they do. The "Dark Templar" trilogy kinda gave an idea, but since they've already explicitly ignored the books on the Tal'darim, khaydarins can be anything, really.
If that's true it proves the influence of the Conclave hasn't faded completely. This was a flaw Tassadar had pointed out since SC1, that no matter what, they continue to cling to their failing traditions, which does nothing but bring disaster to their people.Quote:
Originally Posted by Visions of Khas
Overall, the whole reliance on Khaydarin crystals is merely as power batteries. Ok sure the DT Saga did give it another purpose via memory crystals, but it's not much. It's a shame Zeratul didn't tap into the Overmind's memories more, since it specifically said back in SC1 those crystals had powers untold of by the Protoss.
Zahn does nice* stories, but never does enough research on the technical lore of the series. Ever.
Interesting. I would have expected differently from his SW books as he's wrote more of those. With Christie Golden, her SW books for not doing enough research I can understand.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nolanstar
What can I say? Magic A is actually not Magic A. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by sandwich_bird
I don't see how this would make it easier to levitate themselves since sharp vectors would not really permit them to gracefully glide about as High Templar observedly do... unless they used multiple vectors to levitate themselves as you said. The problem here is that if they already use multiple conical vectors to levitate themselves, why aren't they seen to to move other things using these multiple conical vectors? The answer really just dovetails back to it being "probably that Protoss can only levitate themselves and not other things" (for some reason or other).Quote:
Originally Posted by sandwich_bird
Eh, that's old news. They've been doing that since BW. :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Visions of Khas
Then again, I'm still unsure as to which one of the Zerg and Protoss races got the worst lore shellacking in Sc2.
Couple of things:Quote:
Originally Posted by Turalyon
If the Protoss vectors are conic, that means that the force coming from the point is evenly distributed to the base. If you launch only one vector from the middle of the body, it would be hard to stabilize like below (upside-down representation) unless increasing the power increases the area of the base. Of course, you can't really move like that but...
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With only 4 evenly spaced vectors at a 45 degree angle from the ground, it should be quite stable (think of a cross from a top down perspective) and it should allow gracious movement if you master the "art" of balancing the forces propelling you through the power output of each of the 4 vectors (maybe add a few more vectors if you're that good).
Now, when you try to levitate something other than yourself, it is not the conic base that holds the object but the point. Increasing the intensity of a conic vector doesn't help and can even cause issues because of spatial restrictions. In other words, if you increase the area of the base, you can't stack as many cones unless the cones can overlap without interfering with each others(which we'll assume they can't). So to properly levitate something, you have to control many small conic vectors which we'll assume is a very hard thing to do compared to just increasing the power output of a vector (which the Terran can do because of their cubic vectors).
Hope that makes more sense. Kinda hard to explain without images XD
EDIT: Thinking back on this, changing the area of the base needs to have something other than a direct linear relation with the power output.. We can just say that psionic users have 3 abilities:
-controlling the base area size
-controlling the power output amount
-controlling the number of vectors
And even though a psionic user has both control of the base area and power output, increasing the power output still has an exponential effect on the base area size(so increasing the power a bit doesn't really change the base area size but, at a certain point, you start to really affect the area size).
The Protoss only got the realization of Amon uplifting them, and therefore they couldn't ascend. The Zerg had it slightly worse as Amon used them for longer periods and everything.Quote:
Originally Posted by Turalyon
Obviously the protoss have telekinesis alrarak gives examples of things in his first apraricion cutscene
https://youtu.be/HElDA_hNuHQ?t=16
, the psychic difference must be of a more subtle nature, and his interest of more scientific than practical
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pretty coolQuote:
Originally Posted by Visions of Khas
Why is everyone losing their minds over this godammit. Their telekinesis is just different. Like bats and dolphins sonars, or different species of bats or cetaceans, work differently from each other. Not in a way that we that don't use sonars know, but somehow that sonar users know the difference. That's it. Like Indians and Italians can make pasta but it's different. Or how swordsmanship in different in each culture, and so on.Quote:
Originally Posted by Turalyon
I love your explanation, sandwich. Just a note, a psionic storm is made triggering the psionic energy that already exists in a place. It's not like all it's cinetic energy is coming form the HT's mind.Quote:
Originally Posted by sandwich_bird
About the difference between lifting yourself and lifting other objects, psionics commonly (in fiction and esoterism) related to the body. It is a classic "yogi power" to levitate while meditating, this is where pop culture takes the "powerful psionists float around" thing. Think about how it would be different for a psionic to enter someone else's dream or entering her own dream. Or, making an analogy to another kind of power, how the Flash can draw Speed Force to accelerate himself but not other people. I see no reason to think that a psionists own body would be treated as any other object, since the psionic mojo is flowing from his own body.
Ah, I see. I got confused since I didn't consider Newtoninan physics and that the source of those vectors as being different to any another object. Silly me. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by sandwich_bird
This explains why Protoss can't levitate objects other than themselves but I'm sure it doesn't mean they can't perform telekinesis of a general nature. Unless the conic vectors "penetrate" other objects (psionic bullets!), I'd assume that some of the force of this conic vector can still be transferred to an object in order to move it in some capacity, if not in an elegant/smooth way. I take it that Protoss can't perform telekinesis on objects other than themselves according to this new book??
I'm not losing my mind. I acknowledge that there's a difference.Quote:
Originally Posted by TcheQuevara
I know you're not, I was trying to sound histrionic like the cool kids do :)
No, the new books do not state Protoss can't move things with their minds. SC:E does say protoss and terran telekinetics work differently, but does not specify how.
Figured that, shows that the Nerazim didn't consider the Tal'darim faction as part of them. After all, Vorazun DID say this specifically in LotV that while the Tal'darim share their blood, they're not like the Daelaam at all, and this may never change.Quote:
Originally Posted by drakolobo
That merely means it's just another vague thing that Blizzard will abuse in the future.Quote:
Originally Posted by TcheQuevara
Well, some of the Tal'darim defected to the Daelaam after the End War, so this isn't entirely true.Quote:
while the Tal'darim share their blood, they're not like the Daelaam at all, and this may never change.
Yes, but when Vorazun said that they were still at Slayn, so at that moment it wasn't the case.Quote:
Originally Posted by Visions of Khas
I'm still curious for your part just how much is true or not. If nothing else, the vast majority would have still gone with Alarak after Amon's defeat in LotV
Alarak was using void energy there. Like those damn crystals that pushes units away. Maybe Tal'darim are able to use their psychic abilities to create forcefields that blasts objects away when released.
From that video, it doesn't seem Alarak was gripping anyone like Kerrigan does, he creates a ball of energy and unleashes it instead to push the Zealot and Vorazun away.
Possibly, or if we were to try to use Blizzard's explanation, they'd probably say the Tal'darim found a way to replicate the black hole mothership ability, though on a much smaller scale (hence the sucking you towards it and repelling you back out)Quote:
Originally Posted by GnaReffotsirk
Warp blades used to suck matter into its field, cutting things by consuming rather than splitting objects.
I think..
Maphaps that concept was destroyed in the Great Retcon of 2010.
I'm also a little surprised everyone's glossing over the fact that the Zerg are baking things now. Can you imagine Abathur slaving over a hot oven all day? When did they assimilate Martha Stewart?
Interesting, didn't know that. I'll look into it.Quote:
Originally Posted by GnaReffotsirk