I am surprised nobody has made a thread about this yet. Spoilers, obviously.
So what did you think? I loved it. My favorite theory so far is Starkiller base was made from the planet Ilum.
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I am surprised nobody has made a thread about this yet. Spoilers, obviously.
So what did you think? I loved it. My favorite theory so far is Starkiller base was made from the planet Ilum.
I also love it. I obviously don't think it's flawless, and I prefer the first half to the second, but if you watch it and then go watch Attack of the Clones...
Rey and Finn are great, and I look forward to seeing where they end up as characters 2 movies from now.
I feel very glad that Star Wars feels reinvigorated and fun, and that kids will have the whole dressing up as characters for halloween, obsessing over starship designs, playing with legos kind of fun that I had 15 years ago.
I thought it was a good experience. Better than I thought it would be, although I didn't have many expectations, being that I'm only a Star Wars video game mostly. Plan to get into the books though. The movies are just eye candy for me though, meaning good fun while I watch it, not to think about after. Even though I enjoyed it, I mean really, it's basically a remake of the first movies. The parallels are immense.
Put simply, 8.5/10
I'm just glad that a Star Wars movie finally has a, metaphorically speaking, beating heart again. Sure, the "stuff" in the movie was quite derivative from the original trilogy but now that they've sated our nostalgia with it, I guess that means the next SW movies can be different whilst retaining that recaptured spirit. I'm actually looking forward to see what comes next rather than hoping the next one is going to be fine or better, like I was with prequel movies. Sc needs a similar treatment methinks.
I read Episode VIII is to be directed by a director who worked on Breaking Bad and other character dramas, so I am REALLY curious how it will turn out.
Snoke is totally Plagueis.
So I just saw Star Wars (I)VII: Another New Hope Awakens.
Lets see, where to start.
We meet a young kid on a desert planet. They find a droid with vital information they have to get to the Rebels/Resistance. They fly a ship called the Millennium Falcon with the help of an old man, a cheeky rogue with a questionable past, and a walking carpet. They end up in an alien bar which plays unusual, yet catchy, music. They get captured and have to escape a giant starbase weapon. It destroys a planet. They get the information to Leia and she orders an X-Wing attack on the starbase weapon. There's a trench run and lots of explosions. The old man gets killed by someone he was very close to once, who also happens to be the main villain. After the battle is won, the kid then goes off to find a great old Jedi from whom to learn the force.
Its a new year! Welcome to 1977 everyone.
^ Beats whatever the hell The Phantom Menace was: Some stuff about a trade federation blockading a planet and blah. Lol
I think that a big reason they spent so much time being referential/retracing A New Hope's every step, while completely avoiding talking about the political situation and logistics and anything was because of the prequel backlash. They saw all the complaints about trade negotiations and the senate and thought, "okay, we'll show them that we know what makes Star Wars Star Wars," and made exactly Star Wars.
Which I'm fine with if the next movies now go off and do new things. They're treating the first of the new movies essentially as a reboot, so it is kind of a remake, but if it's just to demonstrate that they can do Star Wars right and now they'll add new ideas, could be very good. And the parallels were mostly fun, like, I liked Han going from unenthused skeptic in ANH to taking over Obi-wan's role in TFA, telling the younger generation about the Force aboard the Falcon and then being the old guy who confronts evil and gets cut down and left behind on the Death Star.
I did think that Starkiller base was a bit too unoriginal though. You can have the character parallels without it.
But yeah I'll only be disappointed if now the next one is exactly a remake of Empire Strikes Back as well.
That's the most I've ever agreed with Squibb on anything.
I agree with you on all counts, Robear. This is simply an introduction to a familiar universe with new characters. Star Wars has never been wholly original; it's that quaint Fairy Tale in Space feeling that is so appealing.
I'm pretty damn interested in Kylo Ben's character arch. He clearly represents an Anakin Skywalker that has accepted the Dark side on his own terms. It's also very telling that, unlike Vader, Kylo never slays his subordinates needlessly.
His name is Kylo Ren / Ben Solo.Quote:
Originally Posted by Visions of Khas
https://espngrantland.files.wordpres...eg2so2_250.gifQuote:
His name is Kylo Ren / Ben Solo.
You're just a scruffy Nerf herder.Quote:
Originally Posted by Visions of Khas
When I saw that scene as a child, I always thought Leia was calling Han a "Nerve hurter." It didn't make sense til I read Star Wars: Tales of the Bounty Hunters, where the phrase was written out. (I think in Dengar's story.)
Just saw it. It was ok. For some reason, I had trouble with the last fight. It's clearly not the only problem with the plot but how Rey mastered her Jedi powers out of nowhere and then defeated Ren.. I thought it was dumb but I'll accept that she succeeded only because Ren was wounded.
Another thing is that I felt the universe wasn't clearly explained. Of note: why is there already an empire 2.0? Do I have to read a book to understand what happened between ep 6 and 7? ''Luke is gone and that somehow left a vacuum for baddies to take over'' is the only explanation given afaik.
Also, one random unimportant question: is Snoke a giant or is it just the hologram that is made like this?
1. As much of a Mary Sue as Rey was, the force "works in mysterious ways" so her sudden grasp of it isn't completely out of left field.Quote:
Originally Posted by sandwich_bird
2. The defeat of the second Death Star and the death of Palpatine/Sidious were big events, but the Empire itself was not defeated, only its top leadership. They still had thousands of ships and troops across the galaxy, and the power vacuum was filled by Snoke and his underlings like General Hux. When Kim Il Sung died, did North Korea collapse? No, his son Kim Jong Il took his place, then Kim Jong Un after him. As for he Empire becoming the First Order, organizations change names all the time as things change, like how the USSR became Russia after it lost territories.
3. Snoke's giant hologram is just that: a giant hologram. He is not a giant himself, it's just imagery to make him appear more powerful.
---
My biggest gripe with TFA is lightspeed physics, the laws of thermodynamics, and Starkiller Base's complete disregard of them - either our own natural laws or the Star Wars galaxy's as set in canon. The wiki on the operation and firing of the Base is fucking ridiculous. Using "Dark Energy" to draw in a star a fire its power breaking space-time for thousands of light-years? Was the Force not enough ridiculous magic already?
So Rey being independent and naturally skilled like any other hero protagonist in any other fictional universe makes her a Mary Sue. Damn, chicks have it hard being heroes in fiction, don't they?
I don't mind that Rey was able to beat Kylo Ren since he was already having a tough time fighting Fin. Rey was barely holding her own and was on the defensive most of the time until she used the force to defeat Ren. Also, Rey using the force to defeat Ren is akin to Luke using the force to fire a fluke shot down an exhaust pipe of the Death Star without tech assistance.
As to the First Order "coming out of nowhere", I buy the reason that they weren't just all defeated but the movie never really implies this. They're just there right from the get go. However, saying that they're just there in the movie is evidence that they weren't totally wiped out is circular reasoning. The actual explanation for their continued existence/power is never mentioned in the movie itself - a plot hole for sure but not a narrative-breaking one.
I don't really mind the unrealistic nature of how the Starkiller weapon actually works, I was more concerned about it being an undisguised plot device and escalated allusion to the Death Star. I mean, we already had a Death Star 2.0 in Return of the Jedi which was supposed to be bigger and badder only to now have it again a third time with it actually being bigger and badder. In the end, it's just some "massive threatening thing that needs to be destroyed" but did we really need to have the same type of "thing" for a third time?
Bad example. North Korea is not an empire. An empire and a nation/civilization survive based on entirely different grounds, even in countries where the capital is basically the seat of an empire. Empires do often times collapse after the death of important leadership. Although they probably more often times do not. It depends on how well the Empire itself meets the natural need or niche that it has exploited. Empires without this collapse easily, or are never really empires to begin with (Genghis Kahn), or they continue. Star Wars is simplistic enough that we can probably assume its ignoring all historical evidence and logic and has an empire that serves no natural need and exists only through force (not THE force) continue to exist, as I understand the lore. But, I've never really liked Star Wars and don't know that much to begin with, so what do I know?Quote:
No, his son Kim Jong Il took his place, then Kim Jong Un after him.
As for lack of explanation, there's supposed to be a book that explains a lot of things not explained in the movie. Maybe it's in there? It got terrible reviews though, so probably not.
Ugh, I agree with you there. This is an instance where some scenes of political delegation and trade embargoes might have been useful in explicating the galactic state of affairs.Quote:
As to the First Order "coming out of nowhere", I buy the reason that they weren't just all defeated but the movie never really implies this.
Supposedly, the Fire Order is comprised of extremists from the former Empire. According to Abrams, he took the notion of, "What if the Nazis exiled to Brazil came together to form a new band?" The Empire itself has signed peace accords with the nascent New Republic. Another irritant is that, while the Old Republic took millenia to denigrate into an inefficient bureaucracy, the New Republic only needed 30 years.
During the scene depicting the destruction of the New Republic, you see a walrus looking at the Starkiller death beam in the sky. Yeah. THAT was the Supreme Chancellor at the time. Jaimie Hyneman went far in life.
I simply choose to ignore the bullshittery revolving around the Starkiller firing scene. In my mind, Takadona is in the Hosnian system. Fuck all the "Hyperspace lensing" stuff.
*the lone Star Trek fan shuffles uncomfortably in a corner, quietly sipping her drink. She restrains herself from making cynical remarks on the Wars franchise.*
Post- or pre-reboot? 'Cause TNG is where it's at.Quote:
the lone Star Trek fan shuffles uncomfortably in a corner
Oh, pre-, most definitely. I'm not even sure that the modern world can even create another Trek. Something about modern day is just too....I don't know, it's just too fanciful to create the spirit of a real Trek.
I like Star Trek more than Star Wars. Not sure if I could be called a fan.
I gotta say though. I'm surprised you don't like Star Wars more, Nissa. I guess you're just full of surprises.
*the lone hard science fiction novel fan shuffles uncomfortably in a corner, quietly scheming on the downfall of the peasantry. He restrains himself from making cynical remarks on about these low IQ subhumans wracking their brains over nonsense*
100% Joking
Any points for a fan of The Expanse? 'Cause that shit's badass.Quote:
*the lone hard science fiction novel fan shuffles uncomfortably in a corner
*imperious voice*: I will allow it.
We talkin' TV show or the books? TV shows still pretty good.
I would just like to point out that, I, too, prefer Star Trek to Star Wars. Because I'm a naive hippy idealist who embraces socialism and diversity.
There ain't much of a choice since "post-reboot" Trek only consists of like what, a couple films, right? And one of them was just a rip-off of a pre-reboot movie as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Visions of Khas
Diversity is a libertarian ideology. Socialists only like to be diverse when it conforms.
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand, WE'RE OFF!!!
No wait, we're not. Relax everyone it ends here. Just did this as a joke from boredom.
You damn, dirty ape!Quote:
Diversity is a libertarian ideology. Socialists only like to be diverse when it conforms.
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand, WE'RE OFF!!!
I went through a Golden Age SciFi phase a few years back, gobbling up EVERYTHING I could find by Heinlein, Asimov, and Clarke. Poul Anderson, Larry Niven, and Vernor Vinge were also very sexy. And Pandora's Star? Not quite HARD scifi, but damn was that a good read.
Also, I shall leave this here for your perusing pleasure: ALIEN MEGASTRUCTURE. Dun, dun, DUUUUN!
Pandora's Star was a good read, indeed. On top of the science fiction concepts and, in my opinion, hive mind alien race done right, I really enjoyed the brief interludes about the economic and political organization of the planets. I like Peter F. Hamilton's ramblings. Most epic tomes ramble about nonsense but Peter keeps it interesting. That's why I enjoy his cyberpunk novels a bit more than the more well respected novels of the genre.
Oh yeah, something about Star Wars ... and Trekker socialism.
I have a sci-fi read recommendation.
"The Stars At War" (Starfire) Series
By Steve White and David Weber
Crusade (1992)
In Death Ground (1997)
The Shiva Option (2002)
Insurrection (1990)
The Stars At War (2004) - Omnibus : Contains Crusade and In Death Ground
The Stars At War II (2005) - Omnibus : Contains The Shiva Option and Insurrection
By Steve White and Shirley Meier
Exodus (2007)
By Steve White and Charles E. Gannon
Extremis (2011)
Imperative (coming 2016)
The series is about sub-lightspeed travel between solar systems by using naturally occurring wormholes, and all spaceship combat is based around controlling these wormholes and naval-type strafing combat between massive fleets. There's a Klingon-like race of cat people called the Khanate of Orion and lots of orbital bombardments.
I still hate that fucking lightsaber. It looks absolutely retarded, and the explanation that they're exhaust ports because no one knows how to properly build a lightsaber anymore is bullshit because lightsabers don't work like that in the first place.
Ok, don't consider it a lightsaber then.Quote:
Originally Posted by DemolitionSquid
I love solving others peoples problems. :p
Okay Demo, how is Kylo's lightsaber so retarded? The inexperienced Kylo crafted it, utilizing mismatched components and a fractured kyber crystal. Moreover, it has narrative purpose: it reflects Kylo's own instability while simultaneously grounding TFA with medieval themes.
Why? What logical person would prefer Wars? Wars is full of cheap action, shallow characters, and almost no world depth. Episode 7 excelled by being a repeat of Episode 4. The prequels and other Star Wars side specials are all crap. I'm told that the Wars books are good, but that appears to be the only thing within the franchise of any real depth. While the original three movies were good, they have none of the thought, depth, or lasting impact of Trek. Not to mention Trek having more media than just four movies that rise above the level of "suck." Let's not even get into merchandising.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheEconomist
Nah, I'm hard sci fi. This soft stuff doesn't really do it for me.
Oh, and Kylo's saber is stupid because you have to fight very carefully not to slit your own wrists. We have the model at my work, and trust me, that's the case.
Uh, clearly a lot of people like it, evidently. Shall we delve into Campbell's theory of the Hero cycle? Star Wars is a fantasy in space; it's escapist fluff. So was The Hobbit and LotR. Sometimes, just sometimes, escapist fluff happens to capture the imagination.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nissa
Tee hee...Quote:
Nah, I'm hard sci fi. This soft stuff doesn't really do it for me.
I'm not saying Wars is bad (except for the prequels/ewok spin offs), I'm just saying when you've got Trek on one side, and Wars on the other, Trek's better overall.Quote:
Originally Posted by Visions of Khas
Trek has the shittiest artistic direction of it all though. It's so bad in fact that it is almost repulsive. There is nothing interesting visually about it(debatable for the new movies). Don't get me wrong, I like Star Trek but it is really just for the story/concepts explored. I probably would have enjoyed the show/movies much better as books(I didn't read any Trek book btw). With that said, Star wars is a MUCH better universe visually than Star Trek even though the plot of the movies is mediocre.
I'd just like to state that Genndy Tartakovsky's animated Clone Wars (2003-2005 ) series is fucking fantastic, and if you haven't see you owe it to yourself to watch it. It actually portrays the Jedi and General Grievous as powerful beings, and its full of both great action and emotion. Of course, you can't expect anything less from the creator of Samurai Jack and Dexter's Lab.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nissa
Thank you for showing some sanity. The weapon is complete bullshit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nissa
Flashy effects don't make a good movie. Avatar has incredible, revolutionary 3D visuals... but I will never watch it again because its story is boring over-done crap and its characters are hollow. I probably won't even watch Episode 7 again for a few years because I've already seen A New Hope so many times. The reason we keep getting shit like Micheal Bay's Transformers and TMNT is because our society has let our brains rot where we need to induce seizures in our children to keep them focused on something. Its disgusting.Quote:
Originally Posted by sandwich_bird