[Spoilers] Gradius's LoTV Thoughts

To be fair, Tygo, I think you're a cool dude.

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Originally Posted by Nissa

To be fair, Tygo, I think you're a cool dude.

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:D

Thanks!

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Originally Posted by KaiseStratosTygo

:D

Thanks!

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No prob. Your opinions are well thought out and interesting, and I don't see how opinions about a silly game can make you a bad person.

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Originally Posted by Nissa

Ah, I see. You're not looking at it like a writer. It would seem you like Kerrigan so much you want her to have a good ending, despite all. Thing is, Starcraft was at its best when it had consequences. When doing wrong meant a character would get it in the end. Basically every character has a tragic struggle, even Mengsk. When you make Kerri have a pretty princess ending, it cheapens the whole thing. Kerrigan's fate needed some level of punishment or hardship to make it acceptable, which is why so many people are pissed off by the epilogue -- she never got what she deserved.

There is no such thing as "atrocious" for a fictitious character except in specific circumstances. As Stephen King said, "murder your darlings." Indeed, it's often stated in writing books that a story is all the crap a character goes through to achieve their goals. A lab rat fate is only appropriate or inappropriate according to the circumstances of the specific character.

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No, I disagree. If Kerrigan goes through most of the story being a pawn to others, then breaks free, schemes her way into a position where no one else can control her only to realise she still can't get what she truly desires because she's still enslaved to the fear and bitterness and anger inside her, then putting her in someone else's cage is a regression for her character. Really, at that point breaking her free is the only real direction you can go.

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Originally Posted by FanaticTemplar

No, I disagree. If Kerrigan goes through most of the story being a pawn to others, then breaks free, schemes her way into a position where no one else can control her only to realise she still can't get what she truly desires because she's still enslaved to the fear and bitterness and anger inside her, then putting her in someone else's cage is a regression for her character. Really, at that point breaking her free is the only real direction you can go.

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Hm, I'd say that an executional problem -- it depends on how it's written. But some people are more free by being restrained. For example, Kerri, at the end of Brood War, is a slave to her own passions. And since at that point she's technically accomplished her goals, she has no future. Neither does she have friends, a career, a love, or anyone around besides mindless monsters. She's even stuck in a place where there's no art, architecture, theaters, shops, restaurants, or beach resorts. There's nowhere to go. Kerrigan's "free" and has power, but she really has nothing at all.

But hey, I'm open to other endings. Anything realistic with clear implications for both Kerrigan and everyone else works. Heck, I wish SC2 was less focused on her. That way her character wouldn't have been stretched beyond believability and she'd still have character potential. My main point is that Kerri should just have an ultimate fate that isn't things ending well for her, or her and Jimmy running off into the sunset. Gag.

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Originally Posted by FanaticTemplar

No, I disagree. If Kerrigan goes through most of the story being a pawn to others, then breaks free, schemes her way into a position where no one else can control her only to realise she still can't get what she truly desires because she's still enslaved to the fear and bitterness and anger inside her, then putting her in someone else's cage is a regression for her character. Really, at that point breaking her free is the only real direction you can go.

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Exactly. Kerrigan only ever being a pawn gets boring after a while. It feels like Warhammer in that it's grim for the sake of being grim. And in it's own way seeding life (which is what Kerrigan is implied to be doing) for the sake of seeding life is heroic. You don't have to be recognized in order to be a hero. Heroes should be heroes regardless of the reaction they receive. If someone's only been a chewtoy their whole life it gets boring as shit.

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Kerrigan suffered executional problems in the current trilogy but the idea of her overcoming her inner demons, working to achieve redemption and having at the very least a bittersweet ending is fine.

My point is that there really is no karma and rejecting a history that does not apply this system of cosmic retribution, because only reflects the personal moral and applied effects to a character. in a real context the villain can have a happy ending, the hero of the most horrible destinations

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Originally Posted by KaiseStratosTygo

Uh, She has ultimate godly power now.

sorry, but I'm not buying this.

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it is difficult if you focus on the fantasy of power

But take the case of Enoch, the myth / legend that instead of dying the way with God, and transcended, the mightiest angel Metatron became. But the nature of an angel, although his power is the loss of free will and are basically defined by their responsibility depending on the will of God, the human common things would cease to mean the same thing. like the simple things that give us happiness

A similar case is the story of Evangelion humanity transcending just joining a collective entity, Sinji reject this phenomenon, planting questions, as the value of self, our limitations, and the beauty of the little we have, when we can all , the limits of your personality vanishes.

For Kerrigan has been taken to the center of the wheel of life cycle universe and had the risk of being consumed by this responsibility, the way she and Jim is living is a mystery, we do not know if Jim was abducted on an idyllic fantasy if Kerrigan really has been released this responsability. abandon a normal life should not be taken lightly. Jim as a more of mysterious disappearances, never to be seen again, leaving a vacuum and uncertainty, but it is still a happy ending, though a bit melancholic

You can claim that Kerrigan's fate was unrealistic, but it was certainly unsatisfying, for a number of reasons. Indeed, the bitterness of her position only comes from the fact she might not be able to see Raynor ever again (I still maintain that the ghost at the end was Nova), which was a complete retcon, and has nothing to do with her SC1 incarnation. Sure, sometimes people who are horrible get away with good-ish fates, but Kerrigan's fate isn't merely her own. There are tons of people who feel raw about her and what she's done, so the genuine disgust players feel for the positivity of the ending is a realistic reflection of the disgust all the in-game characters might feel upon hearing that their greatest enemy became a Xel'Naga. At the very least, Artanis should be pissed as all hell.

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Exactly. Kerrigan only ever being a pawn gets boring after a while.

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Bad story telling begets bad story telling. Destroy and rebuild.

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Originally Posted by Nissa

Ah, I see. You're not looking at it like a writer. It would seem you like Kerrigan so much you want her to have a good ending, despite all. Thing is, Starcraft was at its best when it had consequences. When doing wrong meant a character would get it in the end. Basically every character has a tragic struggle, even Mengsk. When you make Kerri have a pretty princess ending, it cheapens the whole thing. Kerrigan's fate needed some level of punishment or hardship to make it acceptable, which is why so many people are pissed off by the epilogue -- she never got what she deserved.

There is no such thing as "atrocious" for a fictitious character except in specific circumstances. As Stephen King said, "murder your darlings." Indeed, it's often stated in writing books that a story is all the crap a character goes through to achieve their goals. A lab rat fate is only appropriate or inappropriate according to the circumstances of the specific character.

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No. I think that if a character only ever goes through the wringer its hard to care about them. I believe that Kerrigan should pay some price but also feel that if she truly works at it she can potentially earn a happy ending. I'm somewhat discontent since she could have worked harder, but if Kerrigan had spent HOTS and LOTV busting ass trying to make amends I wouldn't object.