Oh no guys! Another very serious problem needs our absolute undivided attention!
http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/15/tech/u...html?hpt=hp_t2
Pause the porn, women are being harassed on the internet!
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Oh no guys! Another very serious problem needs our absolute undivided attention!
http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/15/tech/u...html?hpt=hp_t2
Pause the porn, women are being harassed on the internet!
That was just...sad.
Uh, as a girl, I can honestly say I have never been discriminated against in the gaming community. I have been bullied by high school slackers, teens who think they're better than me, and feminists. Nerd guys, on the other hand, are pretty welcoming. If they do dislike me, it's because I'm socially awkward, not because I'm the other gender.
Can't say I've seen gamer guys being sexist to others, either. While I dislike with a passion some of the slutty crap female characters are forced to wear, that's more guys being guys than being deliberately discriminating.
On a funny note, did anyone notice when people flipped out over Samus wearing high heels? She's in a skin tight whore suit (zero version), and feminists think it makes sense to criticize her heels? Please.
Yup. Cortana was my hero up until Halo 4. Then the designers saw fit to accentuate her curves, fill out her breasts, and make her body language meek and lacking confidence. :\Quote:
Originally Posted by Nissa
Korra is my new lady role model.
Korra's a whiny pushover. Asami's way more badass.Quote:
Originally Posted by Visions of Khas
Am I the only one that prefers male protagonists? Men are more interesting in games because of the way they're treated -- they can be anything or anyone, good or bad. Whereas female characters get judged if they're damsels in distress, or become feminist stereotypes that aren't allowed to show weakness and/or stubbornly tag along when they're not wanted. Not to mention the whole "Heart of the Swarm"-izination, where having a female protagonist means the plot has to involve melodrama and romance. All the best high adventure games have male leads.
Basically, I don't want a girl in a game unless she can just be a girl, rather than a political commentary.
^ Which is why I like Korra; she's a well-rounded character that isn't hung up on so many tropes that keep most female characters down. I cannot stand the Damsel In Distress type in the least bit. This is also why Orphan Black is one of my favorite shows; the women are strong and well-rounded. Am I a feminist? No, neither am I MRA. I'm an egalitarian who likes good characters, is all. :)
And yes, Demo, Asami is a badass, too, but hasn't anywhere near the character development of Korra. (And I'm sure you got a huge kick out of this, Demo.) Also, Toph.
I'm okay with Damsels in Distress. Usually when they are in a story, they're just there to push forward the story of a male hero. That's fine. They don't get in the way like a feminist stereotype, if only because they spend so little time on screen.
As a woman I'm sure you agree with me that you're capable of everything a man is, to a reasonable degree. Most games have male protagonists simply because men dominate the industry and the playerbase, so its easier for men to write for a male protagonist using their own experiences and dreams, and easier for the male player to associate themselves with the male protagonist. The problem is simply the industry being too slow on the uptake of female protagonists. As much as I currently loathe Bioware for the crap they pulled in ME3 and DA2, they proved that women protagonists can be just as good, if not better than males in any role (in reference to Hale's voicing of Shepard generally being considered better than Meer's). They also showed women avoiding melodrama and romance by simply not choosing it. I honestly hope for more female protagonists, developers, and gamers in the future.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nissa
Asami was always woefully underused, and of course she's less developed than the main character. Still badass though. Also yes, Toph will always be epic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Visions of Khas
On the topic of strong women in anime, I highly recommend watching Psycho-Pass for Inspector Akane Tsunemori.
Is there anything wrong with a... Don in Distress? What's the male equivalent to damsel? Mansel?
Plenty of games have them. They're just called POW's.Quote:
Originally Posted by Visions of Khas
That... is fucking awesome, Demo. I love you. <3
HanselQuote:
Originally Posted by Visions of Khas
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pr...Q=w443-h332-nc
Oh noes guys, feminists have gotten their feelings hurt again.
http://www.slate.com/blogs/bad_astro...n_a_shirt.html
#ShirtGate
Women are equals and deserve the same inherent respect. I honestly don't see how this is so confusing to so many people. Sexism, racism, agism, homophobia... they just don't make any logical sense. You can't legitimately hate someone for something they have no control over.
Lol. I like the idea of the heroic man. I'm not too interested in a guy I'd have to save. Sure, I don't mind helping guys, but...well, for lack of a better way of putting this, hero guys are hot. Just saying.
The issue is, Demo, that it's not about what women are capable of. It's that feminists have gotten into culture so much that we can't talk about gender differences without someone crying "sexism!" That, and women aren't really capable of everything men are (and vice versa, depending on what we're talking about). Every time someone says that, I can't help but think of Soviet prison camps, where they would force both men and women into the frozen tundra to log trees. In that case, women were clearly not as capable. It's just a matter of talents/psychology: women read faces better, men are better at being funny, etc. Generally speaking, of course.
Haha, wow, not true. Out of all my friends, including my female friends, I'm the most attentive to body language and facial expression. Any of 'em can tell you that.Quote:
It's just a matter of talents/psychology: women read faces better, men are better at being funny, etc.
These are the only generalities that I'm comfortable with making: Men are slightly better at gaining muscle mass; and women are generally better at conceiving children.
I'm not one of these people that opposes talking about sexual dimorphism and differences, but they're generally more subtle than people realize. There are clear neurological, physiological, psychological and genetic differences, but these generally pose no obstacles on the individual level, save for what that person's culture, upbringing, and individual prediliction direct them toward.
I did include "to a reasonable degree" in my statement. Point being, there are waifish puny men and burly butch women. Penis and vagina just don't mean what they used to, nor should they. IMHO all characters should be written as gender neutral and only assigned gender later, if at all, to help increase creative diversity in media. Writing for a character you know will be a black woman and writing for a general character who only later is decided to be a black woman will lead to two completely different characters.
I suppose you'd also have to address "realism", though, Demolition Squid. On the one hand, I totally agree with you: gender and race don't have any direct impact on a personality, but you also have to take into account the likelyhood of a person of a certain race being raised in a particular sub-culture. Say, you have a comic or television show full of black women, and yet not one raises their hand in a "No you DIDN'T!" fashion... or whatever kids these days do. I'd totally call BS on that.
The only thing I'll say is that black people totally don't tip. Ever. Ever ever. I'm kidding.
You're ignoring setting. If your setting is tribal Africa and you have a bunch of Vadoma as your group of black women then no, I would not expect an "oh no you didn't" hand wave.Quote:
Originally Posted by Visions of Khas
And black people don't tip because they can't afford it. 'Merica.
InBeforeEco
Well, yeah, you're kind of proving my point. Sub-culture is intimately related to setting and chance of birth. But we're on the same page.
That is entirely untrue. Race does have effects on personality. Races imply subtle physical changes, which at any point can have an affect on personality and culture. For example, white people are more vulnerable to the sun, affection clothing and living choices. Asians are more vulnerable to osteoporosis. Black people are least vulnerable to osteoporosis, but more vulnerable to sickle cell anemia. Not to mention that differences in skin color and bone structure affect what kind of colors and shapes of clothing look good on people. This creates racial differences in clothing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Visions of Khas
The difference between the genders is even larger. For one thing, men are subject to, before birth, a chemical reaction in their minds that severs some of the connections between the brain. Women don't experience this. Also, there are six different chemicals in a person's brain, but they effect each person differently. Men have small amounts of natural oxytocin, seratonin, estrogen, and progesterone, while high amounts of testosterone and vasopressin. Women have the reverse, so in essence, men are primarily controlled by two hormones, while women are controlled by four.
One of the things I've observed is that when people are separated by gender to do the same project, men are more likely to shorten their planning phase and do stuff, while women are more likely to take longer to plan and share disagreements. We used to have these "happy circle" things when I was in ROTC, and you wouldn't believe how much we girls talked on and on about crap, while the guys continually kept practicing drill.
In other words, there is plenty of difference between men and women, and it DOES affect one's personality. The gap between the races isn't as large as the one between the genders, but there's differences there.
One could argue that race and racism affects culture which then in turn affects personality, but the relationship between race and personality is not nearly as clean cut as you appear to make it. I feel like you're ignoring the exceptions, and how an increase in subjects and generalization increases those exceptions. When I say "women" and "men" I'm talking about billions of people, not just a small group of random African Americans in Harlem.
Anyway, the point I was trying to make is that women in gaming is a good thing, be they developer, gamer, or protagonist. I do not support Zoe Quinn's alleged use of sex to gain status for her game, nor do I support the media and my fellow males harassing her and other women like Anita Sarkeesian so violently. To my fellow men: stop being childish douchebags.
All I'm saying is that men and women are clearly different, both in way of thought and behavior. Otherwise, it wouldn't matter if women were in video games or not, because video games would be the same with or without them.
This is true, I am Lobster Man during the summer months.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nissa
The "big boned" thing is a myth.Quote:
differences in [...] bone structure
I'm actually surprised you didn't mention the corpus collosum, the neural mass that connects the two hemispheres of the brain. The corpus collosum in women tends to be larger and more dense than in men. Leanord Sax' book Why Gender Matters is a fabulous book! I'm sure there's also been research conducted on connectomes and gender, but it's not something I've researched. I'd love to hear more about it though.Quote:
For one thing, men are subject to, before birth, a chemical reaction in their minds that severs some of the connections between the brain. Women don't experience this.
Oh, I would believe. I have lady friends too, y'know. God damn... But a point against this is I know plenty of women that show a huge degree of concentration and work ethic by contrast, while many men I know would be the ones goofing off.Quote:
you wouldn't believe how much we girls talked on and on about crap, while the guys continually kept practicing drill.
I am not saying there are no differences between women and men, hell no! I'm a liberal, but not a gushy one that lives in some fantasy world of equality and butterflies. :P It does get to me, however, when it's implied there are limitations imposed on one group or the other because of biological conditions. This sort of thing dates back to the days of craniometry and other scary stuff like that. Yes, nature and nurture work in tandem to produce individuals, it's not just one or the other.
To my fellow humans: stop being childish douche canoes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Squidward
FTFY. Because women can be just as sexist and childish. :\
What the world needs now is more social justice warriors and regulations!Quote:
Women are equals and deserve the same inherent respect. I honestly don't see how this is so confusing to so many people. Sexism, racism, agism, homophobia... they just don't make any logical sense. You can't legitimately hate someone for something they have no control over.
@Nissa: Just let the Squibb rot in the poverty and obscurity of his own design. He's not worth anyone's time. The most annoying thing about stupid people is that you CANNOT show them they are stupid because if you could then they wouldn't be stupid.
Welp, I'm off to make a living based solely on my knowledge of how the world actually works and thankfully disagreeing with Squibb on almost everything.
... Or fewer jerks? :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Butt-Hurt Economist
I think you mean...Quote:
Originally Posted by Visions of Khas
http://unjouravec.net/wp-content/upl...03/horatio.jpg
... fewer economists.
http://cdn.styleforum.net/d/d4/d4bacacf_rimshot.png
Men are inherently evil. They must be publically shamed at all times and regulated to be civilized beings!Quote:
Originally Posted by Visions of Khas
Worked out so well for Italy and France, must be true!Quote:
... fewer economists.
Squibb, you made a hundred thousand yet this year? No? Okay time to let the grown folks talk. The children's table is over at the Bnet forums.
Yeeeah, no. Fuck feminazis. And not in the good way.Quote:
Men are inherently evil. They must be publically shamed at all times and regulated to be civilized beings!
Your obvious hatred for vaginas will be put on full Twitter blast over the weekend. Expect death threats by Monday.
Actually I will have made over that by the end of this year. That's why I haven't been as active lately, too busy. This is my first time off in months. How you like them apples?Quote:
Originally Posted by TheEconomist
I'm talking real dollars, not Canadian dollars.
Oh, and also I've been bangin' Kate Upton and Adriana Lima. That's why I haven't been on lately.
Wait, you name your socks?!Quote:
Originally Posted by Economist
No. Honest guys. I've been banging them both while Squibb was makin' all that money!
Oh you mean Euro's then?Quote:
Originally Posted by TheEconomist
*snicker*
http://money.cnn.com/2014/09/02/inve...euro-weak-ecb/
Thank God I didn't listen to you in 2010, now I'll actually be able to retire in my lifetime.
I know nothing about economics, sooo I'm stepping out. You two lovers have fun.
Did you know that Europe and Canada's economy is shit right now? If you did, you know more than Squibb has known since 2010.
Luckily, Squibb being completely wrong about everything every single time has no effect on his earnings! I envy a man that can insulate himself in a bubble that well based on the hard work of others. No worries though, I'm sure in some alternate dimension, America collapsed into a third world country and Europe and Canada lead to the world to a glorious socialist utopia just like you predicted in 2010. I'm sure that Squibb is rolling in the dough like I am right now. Maybe you can have the government go steal his money so that you can keep up your standard of living.
*Sigh*
Look, I've already admitted several times you know more about economics than me. This thread was never about this and you're taking it off topic.
We're here to discuss women and media in relation to gaming. Your posts have made it clear you don't like feminism and support misogynist doxxing. Was there anything else you'd like to add on topic?