And it'll probably stand to be the worst arc out of any of the Starcraft 2 campaignsQuote:
Originally Posted by Gradius
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And it'll probably stand to be the worst arc out of any of the Starcraft 2 campaignsQuote:
Originally Posted by Gradius
A vote for Kaldir. Haha, I refuse to believe he read the OP. Must've thought he was voting for favorite game play.
I'm kinda itching for someone to vote Zerus now. Just imagine how that poor victim will be crucified by us lot...
This is EXACTLY why LotV will fall short, since Blizzard is operating on JUST that assumption.Quote:
Originally Posted by DemolitionSquid
I think by now everyone knows that the PvZ will be Niadra and a small force of Zerg lead by a Hybrid
The PvP will probably be the Tal'darim, again. Maybe another Protoss character revolting for allying with Kerrigan, Aldaris style
But what will be the PvT in LotV?
Im going to go against the grain and say the PvZ won't be against Niadra, because the whole point of the mission was to destroy the warp drive so the ship DOESN'T reach Shakuras.
Or they'll be super predictable and do it anyway.
Obviously, it will be versus Raynor who will protect Kerrigan in the name of love from being sacrificed deus ex machina style at the very end. Raynor will try to prevent Zeratul (or someone else) from pressing the instant win button known as Kerrigan's Eternal Love which will instantly and miraculously solve all of the impossibly stacked odds against them. Raynor's thick-headed denial of the fact that Kerrigan and the entire universe will die anyways if she isn't sacrificed will be told as being noble and romantic with lots of beautifully orchestrated cues to pull all of those heart strings.Quote:
But what will be the PvT in LotV?
And then magic carpet rides and musical interludes.
Unless Raynor can convince them otherwise, they'll see his actions at the end of HotS as betrayal. I wouldn't be surprised if they used a similar method like what Mengsk did in HotS to FORCE Kerrigan to comply or something.Quote:
Originally Posted by NikoMyCousin
Still think it's better than the Prophecy arc from Wings of Liberty. At least it was finished.Quote:
Originally Posted by NikoMyCousin
Wait...the prophecy arc wasn't considered "done"? What was missing from it?
The ability to disappearQuote:
Originally Posted by RetlocLive
- The Kerrigan vs. Zeratul cinematic. Was originally a longer fight where we actually see Kerrigan kick Zeratul instead of him magically getting injured after cutting off her wing.Quote:
Originally Posted by RetlocLive
- The prophecy making any sense. First Kerrigan and Zeratul already know about it in the first mission ("witness the final agonizing moments of your species"), but the rest of the arc is spent hunting down the prophecy.
- Pretty sure I'm forgetting one other thing.
I think he means it came across as being a hackneyed rush job.Quote:
Originally Posted by RetlocLive
When you say prophecy story arc, do you mean the Zeratul missions and the lead up to them, or the greater story arc? Because the Zeratul missions were the highlight of WoL to me. Again, alien lore trash > human dumb shit, for me at least.
Mostly, but it wasn't explained how it all began, as in what the Zerg were like before Amon did what he did, though the existence of the primal Zerg on Zerus still just didn't work out.Quote:
Originally Posted by RetlocLive
Now, on the other hand, if we found the FOSSILS on Zerus of the primal Zerg that Amon for some reason couldn't corrupt, and therefore killed, THAT would have been much more acceptable.
The above, plus they didn't have any high quality models for the related cutscenes, which gave us introductions with just the in-game Void Seeker model flying around on an empty field. But mostly it's the prophecy not making any sense. It's pretty blatant that the order's been changed around - if you look at what happens in the first mission and in the cinematic, you can pretty much see the redundancy - at the end of Whispers of Doom, Zeratul uncovers the Xel'Naga prophecy, Kerrigan shows up, and Zeratul is forced to make his escape. He also gets that wound that shows up prominently when Zeratul appears on the Hyperion, despite the fact that in the current order of events, Zeratul has had two whole other missions to deal with before that happens.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gradius
I suspect that the original order was more or less inverted... Zeratul goes to the Overmind in search of answers, gets a cryptic vision, needs to find some recordings left behind by the actual Xel'Naga to confirm its veracity, gets ambushed by Kerrigan who already knows about it, and then flees to Raynor.
Whatever the case, they obviously made some changes and never bothered to clean up before releasing it.
That's aside from everything else that makes it awful.
^ In other words, what I said in post #53. ;)
Unless Blizzard still plans to make it seem like everything revealed in WoL and HotS was only a prelude and nothing more. To me, that wouldn't be smart.Quote:
Originally Posted by Turalyon
My favorite arc is Char, because it feels like Starcraft and is arguably the one that makes the most sense.
The order I'm seeing the story is Kaldir -> Zerus -> Char, for the good reason that Mengsk sends those holograms about Raynor being hostage on whatever planet you picked third. Char is the most logical by far, and I don't even want to think on how one of these discs could end up on Zerus (much less finds a working network there). Plus, I like to think Kerrigan already had a large swarm when she returned to Char. It makes the re-conquest of Char a bigger deal, and I feel Warfield's lines sound better if Kerrigan is infested again.
My least favourite is Space. Cool gameplay and all, but its story is so abysmally stupid that my brain doesn't consider it an arc.
IMO, Prophecy is worse than Zerus. At least Zerus had no Overmind left to retcon, and we already knew what to expect when we got there.
Double post.
One of my main problems with Char was the complete moronic way they portrayed Warfield.
I'll now put what I wrote on him from the battlenet forums here:
If you recall when the Zerg invasion started in WoL, Warfield was chosen by Mengsk to deal with the invasion. Due to Dominion propaganda, Raynor was portrayed as nothing more than an idiotic scumbag hellbent on chaos in the sector.
But Warfield should have at least gained respect for Raynor's fighting abilities, if not his character. Remember, in the Media Blitz mission, when Mengsk discovered what Raynor was up to, he ordered Warfield to stop him. Warfield had more troops and more resources, but Raynor won anyway.
Now, Warfield might have interpreted this as HIS victory, because he drove the Raiders off Korhal, but that wasn't Raynor's intent, and Warfield HAD to have seen the broadcast in the aftermath of that mission.
Yet right before the Char invasion began, Warfield told Raynor that while he led 5 separate invasions against the swarm, Raynor just hid under a rock.
Did he COMPLETELY forget what happened on Korhal? What gave him the right to call Raynor a coward when Raynor ALREADY BEAT HIM on Korhal?
Furthermore, assuming Warfield was telling the truth about the 5 offensive operations against the swarm, then why the hell didn't the UNN new broadcasts (which is supposed to be pro-Dominion) say anything about it?
The only explanation is quite simple: More than likely, all of Warfield's offensives ended in failure, and the swarm invasion continued unhindered.
This brings us to the Char invasion itself: Raynor warned Warfield not to attack head on, but Warfield did it anyway, feeling that Raynor was too stupid to know anything about war, and look where THAT got him. Raynor and Tychus had to rescue Warfield or he would have been killed by the Zerg.
Only right before the LAST WoL began did Warfield begin to show respect for Raynor, saying that Mengsk was probably wrong about him, as he risked his life for Dominion troops who would have been hunting him down, and praised Raynor for what he did. In that briefing, I had honestly thought Warfield had finally learned.
.
But in HotS, it was revealed Warfield had learned absolutely NOTHING. Sending Gorgon Battlecruisers against Kerrigan only ONE at a time, from a lore perspective, is nothing short of ludicrous.
Kerrigan said because the Gorgon was so huge, it'd why Warfield couldn't fit more than one in the trench at one time. THAT part is acceptable, there's nothing wrong there.
But if that's true, then why the hell didn't Warfield order the Gorgons to fly ABOVE the trench? You can't use the excuse of "too high altitude means inaccuracy", just look at how accurate the satellite targeting systems are TODAY.
The same was true in the "Old Soldiers" mission, when Kerrigan was assaulting his operations center. Warfield continuously claimed he didn't need the artifact in order to beat her, and look where that got him. This was the EXACT same attitude he had in WoL right before the Char invasion, thinking he knew everything, and that got him nowhere.
When you combine these points together, then in the cutscene where he demanded Kerrigan let the shuttles of wounded go, you could actually say Kerrigan had the more justifiable hand here if she DIDN'T let them go. After all, she told Warfield MANY times on Char to leave the planet (this was before she even knew Raynor was alive), and Warfield didn't listen. So in that respect, HE was the one who got his soldiers killed for his inability to swallow his own foolish pride.
It's just as bad since it just continues the Overmind retcon but adds another layer of compost by saying that all the Zerg we have known so far are "corrupt" and not supposed to be the real Zerg (which the Primal Zerg ostensibly are). Then again, I guess it only hurts the first time... :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Telenil
I guess Warfield is supposed to be Duke 2.0 but just a more boring version.Quote:
Originally Posted by ragnarok
Doesn't really matter, it was a sneak attack where the Raiders hit and ran before Warfield could fully get his forces to bear. Might be impressive as a guerilla strike, but it means nothing about his skills as a tactical commander.Quote:
Originally Posted by ragnarok
I'm pretty sure they did:Quote:
Originally Posted by ragnarok
"General Warfield begins 'Operation Burnout' to clear Sara system"
"1st fleet engage zerg in Sara system"
"Major battle in Dylar system"
"Zerg raiders stopped at Lakius"
"Zerg advance slows +++ General Warfield credited with successful zerg strategy"
Now, those are probably not all about Warfield, but at least two are, and the last one is presumably the most relevant here. If you're asking why it's never brought up in the main cast, that's because those are always designed around what the player just did.
Duke just keeps growing on me. The man is a comedic gold mine. While Warfield may fill his narrative role, the more interesting parts of his character mostly went to Tychus, I think.Quote:
Originally Posted by Turalyon
Well sure we know the Raiders had to abandon the Odin on Korhal, but still. You think Warfield's troops didn't ALL arrive by the time the transmissions were uploaded?Quote:
Originally Posted by FanaticTemplar
The real problem with Media Blitz is not that Raynor had the time to broadcast his transmission, but that the Raiders could leave the planet after that. I was about to mention the giant planetary cannons seen in HotS, but I'm beginning to suspect an addition to a Blizzard universe is not necessarily retroactive. That is, no matter when these cannons were built in-universe, you are not supposed to assume they existed during events written before the writers thought of putting cannons on the planet.
In any case, the Raiders only pulled it off thanks to the so-called "off-screen manoeuver", which consists in cutting directly to the point the character succeeded. They probably learned the move from Zeratul, who boarded the Hyperion in a very similar way.
Yes, I am in fact a little embittered.
I'm more embittered by the fact that Mengsk turned it around so easily. Sure, Mengsk claimed it was faked, and that's certainly possible, but the problem is his actions would tend to match those words in the broadcast.Quote:
Originally Posted by Telenil
After all, Raynor at least did what he could to save innocent lives during the Zerg invasion, such as Dr. Hanson's people. Mengsk didn't even try, he just left the fringe worlds to their fate. From the Dominion civilians' POV, this would match his personality if the broadcast was real.
For the planetary cannons, you have to remember that the Dominion didn't know the Raiders were in control of the Odin, but even then they were very stupid to have not seen the Hyperion and everything.
Again, to me this deal with Mengsk's propaganda and Dominion arrogance: that the military though no one would be foolish enough to even TRY to attack Korhal.
I'm pretty sure Terrans have had these massive defensive cannons since the Ion Cannon from StarCraft.Quote:
Originally Posted by Telenil
That's easy for the master of absurd comebacks.Quote:
Originally Posted by ragnarok
They had time to scramble an army to try and stop Raynor on three separate occasions while he was at those towers, surely they could have also activated some orbital cannons and trained their sights at his position in that time, too.Quote:
Originally Posted by ragnarok
Also, as FT points out, they've had things like Ion Cannons since Sc1 where the whole mission was to destroy it before they could even contemplate escaping. Somehow, they are apparently absent on Korhal or on any orbiting platforms around it.
Hm, it must be that Mengsk didn't actually want to kill Raynor what with the fear of making him a martyr and all. It's probably also the reason he doesn't do it for real in HotS even though he blabs to everyone on the news that he did. :rolleyes:
Right. I guess off-screen manoeuvre trumps ion cannons, too.Quote:
Originally Posted by FanaticTemplar
Well, Arcturus needs an hostage in case Kerrigan attacksQuote:
It's probably also the reason he doesn't do it for real in HotS even though he blabs to everyone on the news that he did.
his troopsDominion planetscrucial facilitiesKorhal!
... yeah. That Space arc is even worse if you do it after Skygeirr.
Which, to me, is utter BS. Blizzard took the shortcut instead of actually TRYING. No politician could manipulate the people THAT easily.Quote:
Originally Posted by Turalyon
I know about the Ion Cannon, but you don't know if there's more. Raynor destroyed that one, and we don't know if Mengsk found a way to reverse engineer it or not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Turalyon
I think the justification is supposed to be that they escaped in the chaos of the rioting, but that doesn't really make a lot more sense. Rioting isn't exactly going to affect military supervision of incoming/outgoing interplanetary traffic much, I should think.
Eh, it's BS that Blizz intended in the first place when it comes to Mengsk. Given his incredible good fortune at still being top-dog in Terran circles and having the informed attribute of "master propaganda", shrugging off the Media Blitz attack is certainly within his purview.Quote:
Originally Posted by ragnarok
The Ion Cannon is not billed as something special or even unique/one-of-a-kind ike other major plot devices found in the Sc universe (ie: Psi Disruptor). Even if it were, given the Dominion's ability to build up within the intervening years, it can't be that hard to make more general "orbital defense cannons".Quote:
Originally Posted by ragnarok
That and Raynor just released the audio message and needed to escape that very minute. The listeners would need time to listen to the transmission and organise before showing up to riot and get "in the way".Quote:
Originally Posted by FanaticTemplar
True, but I mean Mengsk DID have some grounds to convince the people it was faked, because there was only audio, and those can easily be faked even today.Quote:
Originally Posted by Turalyon
I still feel he shouldn't have been able to go that far. In the immediate aftermath of Media Blitz, it wouldn't have surprised me if Dominion people began to wonder if the whole Zerg invasion in WoL was nothing more than a Dominion weapons test.
It's possible Mengsk felt there was no need during the 4 years between BW and WoL. The KMC and UP were too weak, Raynor had little success against him, Kerrigan was still relatively silent on Char with the swarm, and the Protoss have been largely inactive.Quote:
Originally Posted by Turalyon
Plus I'm not really sure how effective the ion cannon would have been against the swarm anyway.
Unlikely. After having been defeated by the UED and by the grace of the lady luck, somehow comeback as the head of the Terrans again plus Kerrigan openly admitting having a vendetta against him, Mengsk would be more than enough paranoid (if not wise) to consider building up his defenses.Quote:
Originally Posted by ragnarok
Yeah but in Kerrigan's case, Mengsk ignored this because he thought she only wanted to humiliate him, not actually kill him. Now, in the aftermath of the deinfestation at the end of WoL, that's another story.Quote:
Originally Posted by Turalyon
Kerrigan lied to him about not wanting revenge on him and he was visibly shocked at that. I don't think he'd trust anything she ever says - she was probably also lying when she was suggesting she was just going to toy with him.Quote:
Originally Posted by ragnarok
Then tell me this: if the prophecy never existed, what do you think she would have done in the aftermath of the BW?Quote:
Originally Posted by Turalyon
I'm pretty sure everyone in the universe hates this arc, it's so stupid and pointless.Quote:
Originally Posted by NikoMyCousin
I quite enjoyed the Korhal arc, even though it really shouldn't have been the focus, but it was fun to play and fun to finally get rid of Mengsk.
"I had the feeling that I'd 'earned' the right to have a carte blance approach. Don't get me wrong, I love the objective-focussed nature of the WoL and HotS campaigns. But Korhal had an SC1 feeling, and in a good way. I could fight as I wanted, and live or die by my own tactical merits (or lack of them - I'm a lowly bronze after all)."
Also this, it was a sort of "Destroy the enemy base" type mission that's ironically missing from SC2, I wish blizzard hadn't over corrected and gotten rid of nearly all of that sort of gameplay, seeing as how that's what drew me to the series to begin with.
Killed everyone eventually. It was pretty much on-the-wall/written into a corner even then.Quote:
Originally Posted by ragnarok
I still think she would have tried to find a way to get Raynor to be with her. This had always been something I felt she was thinking deep down back when she infested Ethan Stewart.Quote:
Originally Posted by Turalyon