So yeah...LotV?

VoK, from what I saw, he didn't use the warp blade before "invading" Aiur. He seems to have acquired it after fighting Zeratul. Pay close attention to the sequence of events in the trailer. It is different from the trailers we've had before. This one is a true trailer in the sense that they changed the chronological order of things around. The "My Life for Aiur" part is most definitely AFTER that scene where Zeratul appears to "appear" before Artanis for the very first time. So, it could make sense that Zeratul dies, either by Artanis' hands or something, Blizzard knows how, and Artanis affixes the Warp Blade to his own forearm, and Kerrigan appears before him and gets brutalized by that Hybrid Reaver.

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Originally Posted by Visions of Khas

Hahahaha! Thanks for that! But yeah, I'm pretty sure that's the way things are leaning for the story, be it good storytelling or bad.

What I'm annoyed about most is the utter lack of diversity in Protoss. At least in WoL their portraits retained a hint of difference in skin pigmentation, but now they're all blue space elves.

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I don't think that's how it is... The Protoss we've seen do seem different from one another, with Karax as an example as being brown pigmented instead of the bluish gray of Artanis, while Vorazun is a lot more purple and Rohana is just blue, which contrasts with Selendis' gray skin in the opening scenes.

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Originally Posted by protoswarrior

I don't think that's how it is... The Protoss we've seen do seem different from one another, with Karax as an example as being brown pigmented instead of the bluish gray of Artanis, while Vorazun is a lot more purple and Rohana is just blue, which contrasts with Selendis' gray skin in the opening scenes.

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Dude, that's not really enough. I'm with Khas on this one. They look like Protoss created from an automated Warcraft alien generator, and then each slightly adjusted just enough to look vaguely different.

Compare this to the faces of SC and BW. Aldaris looked like a gingerbread man, Tassadar was very blue and sculpted, Fenix looked like a fancy vase, Zeratul looked all craggly, Razagal was....strange, and Artanis looked all smooth because he's far younger than the other characters. In other words, their faces were all very different, a reflection of who each of them were as individuals. Someone clearly took the time to design these guys.

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Originally Posted by Nissa

Dude, that's not really enough. I'm with Khas on this one. They look like Protoss created from an automated Warcraft alien generator, and then each slightly adjusted just enough to look vaguely different.

Compare this to the faces of SC and BW. Aldaris looked like a gingerbread man, Tassadar was very blue and sculpted, Fenix looked like a fancy vase, Zeratul looked all craggly, Razagal was....strange, and Artanis looked all smooth because he's far younger than the other characters. In other words, their faces were all very different, a reflection of who each of them were as individuals. Someone clearly took the time to design these guys.

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I actually disagree with that being better design... I found it annoying and inconsistent that Protosses were so very different. I really wanted the current type of consistency in Protoss from Broodwar, but had no choice but to accept the product we received.

While I understand the need for differentiation due to the diversity of the tribes and castes in the Protoss race, the changes in Broodwar were TOO drastic. SC2 Protoss look much better, imo, and speak to the unified nature of the race as a whole, and still differentiates them by tribes and castes by having different facial features that do not stray TOO far away from the Protoss look. The major difference in look which is a huge improvement over Broodwar was with female Protoss characters like Rohana and Selendis. They're also seemingly young since Zamara looked a bit older, from the art cover in the Dark Templar trilogy.

I like the new Protoss look better than the Broodwar one because it seems to have more definition without being over the top.

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Originally Posted by Protoswarrior

VoK, from what I saw, he didn't use the warp blade before "invading" Aiur. He seems to have acquired it after fighting Zeratul.

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It's possible that the scene he's giving the rallying speech happens at some point after Aiur, but the way it's cut into the trailer makes it seem as though it's the eve of the invasion on Aiur.

Looking at the gauntlet on Artanis' right arm during the Rallying scene, you can see it fits exactly with the underside of the Warp Blade he later wields.

http://i.imgur.com/gZwYluX.jpg

The gauntlet is clearly more brass in color, elongated, and streamlined.

That's an interesting set of screenshots there, VoK.

Hmm, I'll have to rewatch the video again. You cast doubt in my mind - so evil :P

Well, I've been wondering. The Invasion scene in the trailer takes place over a sterile, grey world or moon that looks nothing like Aiur. Could this be Saalok, Aiur's moon? Or is Aiur just that overcast with clouds?

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Originally Posted by Visions of Khas

I've become confused about the scenes we see in the trailer, and the campaign preview panel. While Artanis has two Psi Blades while aboard the Spear of Adun, he wield a Warp Blade in all cutscenes from the trailer, including right before the offensive on Aiur when he's giving his rallying speech.


Also, I'm just going to go ahead and be an ass and argue my theory about Kerrigan and Artanis merging a little bit more:



:D

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" about Kerrigan and Artanis merging a little bit more"

I will take a bath with my Toaster if they do this.

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Originally Posted by Nissa

I'm aware. And I'm pretty pissed off about it. Mengsk is a baddie we all know and love to hate. Amon? Some unknown schlub we have no emotional attachment to. Mengsk should either have a semi-redemption plot (in the form of him doing something good-ish before dying) or his death should be a part of a penultimate battle with a bigger baddie. Or he can perhaps live on, watching other people take over his empire while he is either exiled or sent to prison. Letting Mengsk die as a part of a romance novel climax is awful. Just plain awful.

I hope the games don't go to Earth. It's nice to have a story where our home planet isn't a focus or in danger.

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This is why Amon should have been around to wreak his havoc in WoL or something. At least THEN by the time of LotV we'd get to know him better. This is why I'm not convinced LotV can just cover his entire story, unless he's able to survive LotV.

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Originally Posted by protoswarrior

VoK, from what I saw, he didn't use the warp blade before "invading" Aiur. He seems to have acquired it after fighting Zeratul. Pay close attention to the sequence of events in the trailer. It is different from the trailers we've had before. This one is a true trailer in the sense that they changed the chronological order of things around. The "My Life for Aiur" part is most definitely AFTER that scene where Zeratul appears to "appear" before Artanis for the very first time. So, it could make sense that Zeratul dies, either by Artanis' hands or something, Blizzard knows how, and Artanis affixes the Warp Blade to his own forearm, and Kerrigan appears before him and gets brutalized by that Hybrid Reaver.

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It's possible for Zeratul to die, but I don't think they'd kill him off THAT early in the game. Remember, according to the lore panel, after leaving Aiur on the Spear of Adun, Artanis has a choice to go to Korhal or Shakuras. The former is only at Zeratul's request.

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I will take a bath with my Toaster if they do this.

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I'll be holding you to that. :D

At what point did Archimonde make his debut to the world in WarCraft 3? Because that's Amon's WarCraft counterpart right there.

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It's possible for Zeratul to die, but I don't think they'd kill him off THAT early in the game. Remember, according to the lore panel, after leaving Aiur on the Spear of Adun, Artanis has a choice to go to Korhal or Shakuras. The former is only at Zeratul's request.

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It's also likely that Zeratul asked Artanis to gain the support of Humanity in his dying breath. Artanis then goes frolicking across Terran space to gain support by aiding Valerian against the Shadow Corps. Kinda like Shepard in Mass Effect 3.

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Originally Posted by Visions of Khas

It's also likely that Zeratul asked Artanis to gain the support of Humanity in his dying breath.

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I won't hold my breath to that. Blizzard already said that Raynor aside, the Protoss have little interest in terran matters.

Not to mention if an alliance is needed in such a way, I can see the first thing Artanis will do is the psionic choke hold on Valerian (like what Kerrigan did in HotS) and say, "Don't take us for fools, Valerian Mengsk. From the time he spent with us, James Raynor has told us that the reason the Queen of Blades existed is because your father left Kerrigan on Tarsonis to die at the hands of the Zerg. Your father is the reason why such a threat was created in the first place. If you think for even a moment we won't suspect you're just a cheap carbon copy of your father, you're dead wrong."

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Blizzard already said that Raynor aside, the Protoss have little interest in terran matters.

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Then... why are we going to Korhal?

"At what point did Archimonde make his debut to the world in WarCraft 3?"

Hmm, I actually forgot, it might have been the end of the Undead campaign or the beginning of the Night Elf one, it was pretty late.

"Not to mention if an alliance is needed in such a way, I can see the first thing Artanis will do is the psionic choke hold on Valerian (like what Kerrigan did in HotS) and say, "Don't take us for fools, Valerian Mengsk. From the time he spent with us, James Raynor has told us that the reason the Queen of Blades existed is because your father left Kerrigan on Tarsonis to die at the hands of the Zerg. Your father is the reason why such a threat was created in the first place. If you think for even a moment we won't suspect you're just a cheap carbon copy of your father, you're dead wrong."

I really don't see Artanis doing that, at all.

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Originally Posted by Visions of Khas

Then... why are we going to Korhal?

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Because after Aiur, Zeratul told Artanis to go to Korhal. It's like Artanis wanted to know what Raynor got out of the prophecy.

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Originally Posted by protoswarrior

I actually disagree with that being better design... I found it annoying and inconsistent that Protosses were so very different. I really wanted the current type of consistency in Protoss from Broodwar, but had no choice but to accept the product we received.

While I understand the need for differentiation due to the diversity of the tribes and castes in the Protoss race, the changes in Broodwar were TOO drastic. SC2 Protoss look much better, imo, and speak to the unified nature of the race as a whole, and still differentiates them by tribes and castes by having different facial features that do not stray TOO far away from the Protoss look. The major difference in look which is a huge improvement over Broodwar was with female Protoss characters like Rohana and Selendis. They're also seemingly young since Zamara looked a bit older, from the art cover in the Dark Templar trilogy.

I like the new Protoss look better than the Broodwar one because it seems to have more definition without being over the top.

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You found it annoying that they were so different? It wasn't a matter of one tribe looking one way, and another tribe looking another. These were individuals, with their own looks. The SC2 Protoss are so similar, I can't tell them apart. With the sole exception of Zeratul, and that's only because he dresses differently -- the difference is not in his face. Sure, one 'Toss has more elaborate armor than another, but in the end they all look like generic aliens with gold crap all over themselves.

I think it's gross that a race should look so similar, too. Humans look vastly different from each other, and that's nice. I want that for Protoss too. And the female Protoss are only an improvement because there's more of them, and Raszagal, being dang old, isn't so pretty.

Well, I can't argue with taste, but I can quietly judge you. :D

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Originally Posted by Visions of Khas

Then... why are we going to Korhal?

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Out of obligation to make the previous entries seem more relevant to the current story in LotV? :p

Seriously, I assume it's probably to follow-up on the Hybrids because of the Dominion's previous link with them and/or a stating point for them to investigate Duran/Narud.

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Originally Posted by Turalyon

Out of obligation to make the previous entries seem more relevant to the current story in LotV? :p

Seriously, I assume it's probably to follow-up on the Hybrids because of the Dominion's previous link with them and/or a stating point for them to investigate Duran/Narud.

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Yeah but that would require Zeratul to know Mengsk had been breeding hybrids. There was nothing in WoL and HotS to indicate he knew that.

Unless you're expecting us to believe that after HotS ended, he came into contact with Kerrigan again and she told him about what happened on Skygeirr...

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Originally Posted by ragnarok

There was nothing in WoL and HotS to indicate he knew that.

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That's never stopped Blizz from making other random stuff happen as if it it was always going to happen but we just didn't know about it at the time. It's the whole basis of Sc2. I'm alarmed at how one can still resort to this justification regarding anything that happens in Sc now at all (as if it still held some weight) and still keep a straight face really.

Ranting aside, the previous entries weren't following Zeratul so there's plenty of "wiggle room". Guess he had to be doing something worthwhile in the meantime whilst we followed the exploits of Raynor and Kerrigan, right? He was tracking down stuff about Hybrids afterall. Not to mention that he is frickin' Zeratul (like Batman - he does impossible things because he's... well... he's Batman)! Unless that too is worth nothing now and that he really has become some senile cosmic hobo.

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There was nothing in WoL and HotS to indicate he knew that.

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Rag at his best.

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Originally Posted by Turalyon

...he really has become some senile cosmic hobo.

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Quote of the day.

Sooo why is it so hard to believe that Zeratul urged Artanis to ally himself with humanity to fight the greater threat? Zeratul went way out of his way to talk to Raynor. And don't forget this exchange back in Brood War:

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Artanis
Have faith, Zeratul! You almost sound as if you fear these humans. What are they to such as we? Was it not we who defeated the dreaded Overmind?

Zeratul
Yes, Artanis. We did vanquish the Overmind. But we did so with the help of humans. Do not be so quick to underestimate them.

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Originally Posted by Visions of Khas

Sooo why is it so hard to believe that Zeratul urged Artanis to ally himself with humanity to fight the greater threat? Zeratul went way out of his way to talk to Raynor. And don't forget this exchange back in Brood War:

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But Z also knows about how factional and fickle humans are because he also made this comment in BW:

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These humans have come a long way to make war on us

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Z would only trust the individual, not the greater whole of humanity. He, of all people, would be very distrusting of large institutions claiming to represent the greater whole given his centuries of forced exile by the Conclave. Besides, we're not even sure he knows that the Dominion is "good" now (if one can call it that) with Valerian leading it.

It would make more sense for him to urge Artanis to go to Korhal to investigate the link between the Dominion and the Hybrid more than anything else.

TBH I'm surprised the Protoss trust Zeratul at all. I mean, Zeratul is the reason the Overmind found the location of Aiur. That single event caused the High Templar to abandon their planet. While Artanis is allied with Zeratul and the Dark Templar for having sheltered his people, you would think there would be more dissent amongst the Protoss forces, not something as simple as a unified force. Civil conflict is what keeps the story interesting, and the High Templar/Dark Templar conflict makes so much more sense than some rogue Tal'darim who just so happened to serve an ancient force that even the main characters loosely know about.

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Originally Posted by Tricycle

TBH I'm surprised the Protoss trust Zeratul at all.

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^ Yeah dude. I almost expected LotV to start with Zeratul's trial or something. He led the Overmind to Aiur, "murdered" Raszagal, and left his tribes Dark Templar tribes leaderless by going into self-imposed exile.

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Originally Posted by Tura Lion

Z would only trust the individual, not the greater whole of humanity.

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So he trusts in Raynor to be that individual that leads the greater whole. :D

I think that WoL was meant to make clear a subtle implication throughout SC and BW that Raynor is incapable of being a mass leader of humanity. Sure, he can function as a general or a kind of strategist in miliary/emergency situations, but Raynor has never had the charisma, patience, and desire to foster a civilian population. He's always struggling for a specific purpose -- to take down the Confederacy, rescue Kerrigan, help the Protoss in any way possible, etc. Nothing about Raynor indicates he knows how to take a group of survivors and make them an organized society, especially with the constant emotional beatings he's taken the past few years.

WoL makes it really obvious with how Raynor behaves around Horner (a guy who believes things will get better) and Tosh (a guy who says screw everything and just survive). Raynor makes a statement in one scene that any new society that comes about will not be for people like him. While I don't like that this is explicitly stated, this is one bit of characterization that SCII didn't mess up.

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Originally Posted by Nissa

WoL makes it really obvious with how Raynor behaves around Horner

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Totally thought you were taking this into shipping territory for a sec. XD

Ew, no, slash is the death of fanfiction. That, and I wouldn't pair Jimmy with anyone but m...uh, deinfested Kerrigan. Yeah, her.

*shifty eyes*

Uh-huh. Sure Nissa...

http://i.imgur.com/ChjXUoE.jpg

Hearts and minds.

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Originally Posted by Nissa

I think that WoL was meant to make clear a subtle implication throughout SC and BW that Raynor is incapable of being a mass leader of humanity. Sure, he can function as a general or a kind of strategist in miliary/emergency situations, but Raynor has never had the charisma, patience, and desire to foster a civilian population. He's always struggling for a specific purpose -- to take down the Confederacy, rescue Kerrigan, help the Protoss in any way possible, etc. Nothing about Raynor indicates he knows how to take a group of survivors and make them an organized society, especially with the constant emotional beatings he's taken the past few years.

WoL makes it really obvious with how Raynor behaves around Horner (a guy who believes things will get better) and Tosh (a guy who says screw everything and just survive). Raynor makes a statement in one scene that any new society that comes about will not be for people like him. While I don't like that this is explicitly stated, this is one bit of characterization that SCII didn't mess up.

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It showed that in HotS. I don't think Raynor had really objected to Valerian being the leader of the Dominion once the Korhal invasion ends, but like Kerrigan, he's not ready to fully trust the guy just yet. Kerrigan endorsed him to be leader of the Dominion, but the reality is that she's only admitting that for the time being she cannot prove him to be a cheap copy of his father and therefore it's all right to give him a chance for the moment.

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Originally Posted by Turalyon

That's never stopped Blizz from making other random stuff happen as if it it was always going to happen but we just didn't know about it at the time. It's the whole basis of Sc2. I'm alarmed at how one can still resort to this justification regarding anything that happens in Sc now at all (as if it still held some weight) and still keep a straight face really.

Ranting aside, the previous entries weren't following Zeratul so there's plenty of "wiggle room". Guess he had to be doing something worthwhile in the meantime whilst we followed the exploits of Raynor and Kerrigan, right? He was tracking down stuff about Hybrids afterall. Not to mention that he is frickin' Zeratul (like Batman - he does impossible things because he's... well... he's Batman)! Unless that too is worth nothing now and that he really has become some senile cosmic hobo.

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Yeah that's something I disliked about Blizzard's vagueness and thus they can make much more cynical claims of, "Ah, but we never said anything EITHER WAY, now did we?"

That gets frustrating after a while.

Technically the Protoss never found out how the Overmind discovered Aiur.

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Technically the Protoss never found out how the Overmind discovered Aiur.

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Originally Posted by DonnyZeDoof

Technically the Protoss never found out how the Overmind discovered Aiur.

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That's incorrect.

The Overmind discovered Aiur by touching with Zeratul's mind as he slew the Cerebrate. Zeratul glimpsed into the Overmind's plans while it uncovered the location of Aiur.

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Originally Posted by protoswarrior

That's incorrect.

The Overmind discovered Aiur by touching with Zeratul's mind as he slew the Cerebrate. Zeratul glimpsed into the Overmind's plans while it uncovered the location of Aiur.

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Well yeah but it's not like Zeratul is going to tell the Protoss, 'Hey I revealed the location of Aiur to the Zerg.'

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Originally Posted by protoswarrior

That's incorrect.

The Overmind discovered Aiur by touching with Zeratul's mind as he slew the Cerebrate. Zeratul glimpsed into the Overmind's plans while it uncovered the location of Aiur.

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Well yeah but it's not like Zeratul is going to tell the Protoss, 'Hey I revealed the location of Aiur to the Zerg.'

Zeratul mentions it during one of the Protoss missions, so Tassadar, the Executor, and (I think) Fenix knew. Not that they'd spread it around, but yeah.

After some deliberation, I've finalized my thoughts on LotV.

*Ahem*

Blizzard is so creatively bankrupt they had to bring back the Lurker. Fuck Blizzard, I give up.

That is all.

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Well yeah but it's not like Zeratul is going to tell the Protoss, 'Hey I revealed the location of Aiur to the Zerg.'

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He actually did reveal that to the "Executor" (you) during the mission briefing.

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Originally Posted by DemolitionSquid

After some deliberation, I've finalized my thoughts on LotV.

*Ahem*

Blizzard is so creatively bankrupt they had to bring back the Lurker. Fuck Blizzard, I give up.

That is all.

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I don't know, the lurker is pretty cool. I assumed that they brought it back because people wanted it, rather than anything else.

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Originally Posted by Nissa

I don't know, the lurker is pretty cool. I assumed that they brought it back because people wanted it, rather than anything else.

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That is not a legitimate excuse. Its the same reason they kept the BROKEN AND USELESS Carrier. Nostalgia is not a valid reason for lazy or outright ineffective design.

Lurkers are ineffective?

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Originally Posted by Nissa

Lurkers are ineffective?

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Lazy was a jab at bringing back Lurkers. Ineffective was another jab at the fucking Carrier.

I still don't see how lurkers are a lazy idea, if people really like them and they add to gameplay. But if you wanted something different, I won't argue with you. Blizz hasn't been all that creative, of late.

Oh, by the way, I love your sig.