Did Raynor tell Kerrigan she's supposed to save the universe?

Kerrigan was in a safe lab on Umoja for days/weeks/whatever plus all the stuff they did in Flashpoint. Did they actually have time to talk? She says "sorry about your friend Tychus". Then when Zeratul shows up on the Leviathan later, she decides to go apeshit on him instead of thanking him for telling Raynor that she must live. Did Raynor fail to mention that she's the key to saving the universe? Or does she just not believe him? Did Raynor ever show her the Ihan crystal? Or did he just decide to deliberately ignore Zeratul's warning?

Well, given that Kerri was trapped in Valerian's lab, I'm pretty sure Raynor wouldn't want to talk too much about that in front of Val and his boys. That, and who knows how much time he was allowed to have to speak to her?

Raynor probably wanted to tell her after they left the facility. This whole thing can probably get patched up anyway with telepathy.

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Originally Posted by Gradius

Kerrigan was in a safe lab on Umoja for days/weeks/whatever plus all the stuff they did in Flashpoint. Did they actually have time to talk? She says "sorry about your friend Tychus". Then when Zeratul shows up on the Leviathan later, she decides to go apeshit on him instead of thanking him for telling Raynor that she must live. Did Raynor fail to mention that she's the key to saving the universe? Or does she just not believe him? Did Raynor ever show her the Ihan crystal? Or did he just decide to deliberately ignore Zeratul's warning?

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Remember, Kerrigan was still conscious at the WoL ending when Raynor made his choice, so it's obvious she knew what he sacrificed to save her.

As for listening to Zeratul's warning, it's obvious Raynor ignored this. Remember, he was telling her to forget Mengsk and to leave everything behind. If that's true, then it means he didn't care about the prophecy and thought there's a way around all that.

You and I both know in WoL and Flashpoint, Raynor didn't take the prophecy seriously. I'm not sure he did even by the end of HotS. Kerrigan herself didn't take it seriously until she had to personally deal with Narud.

Doesn't Kerrigan mention Zeratul's "mad prophecy" in the cut scene on Zerus?

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Originally Posted by Laurentian

Doesn't Kerrigan mention Zeratul's "mad prophecy" in the cut scene on Zerus?

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That doesn't mean anything. She didn't have TOTAL amnesia from being blasted by the artifact.

If you had read Flashpoint, then at the end of the book when she was to head down to the Umojan facility, she still remembered what she told Zeratul on Ulaan, that fate could not be changed. Now she looked back and wondered if she was wrong.

She probably would've been able to mind read it off him at any time in any case. Kerrigan was probably going apeshit on Zeratul just to let off steam or for the lols - sociopaths and their weird sense of humour, right? :p

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Originally Posted by Turalyon

She probably would've been able to mind read it off him at any time in any case. Kerrigan was probably going apeshit on Zeratul just to let off steam or for the lols - sociopaths and their weird sense of humour, right? :p

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Oh not that, more like she expected him to take revenge for what happened to Raszagal. Their last meeting on Ulaan certainly didn't go so well.

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Originally Posted by ragnarok

That doesn't mean anything. She didn't have TOTAL amnesia from being blasted by the artifact.

If you had read Flashpoint, then at the end of the book when she was to head down to the Umojan facility, she still remembered what she told Zeratul on Ulaan, that fate could not be changed. Now she looked back and wondered if she was wrong.

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http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instanc...x/52005716.jpg

Raynor didn't believe in that kind of fate. That's why he probably thought it was possible to consider just ignoring the prophecy altogether.

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Originally Posted by ragnarok

As for listening to Zeratul's warning, it's obvious Raynor ignored this. Remember, he was telling her to forget Mengsk and to leave everything behind. If that's true, then it means he didn't care about the prophecy and thought there's a way around all that.

You and I both know in WoL and Flashpoint, Raynor didn't take the prophecy seriously. I'm not sure he did even by the end of HotS. Kerrigan herself didn't take it seriously until she had to personally deal with Narud.

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That's disappointing then, because risking his crew's lives on Char really was all about "saving his girlfriend" and just gives me another reason to hate his character.

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Originally Posted by Gradius

That's disappointing then, because risking his crew's lives on Char really was all about "saving his girlfriend" and just gives me another reason to hate his character.

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Entirely consistent with the original StarCraft.

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Originally Posted by FanaticTemplar

Entirely consistent with the original StarCraft.

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I must have missed the part where he lied to his crew in SC1. :P

Lest we forget that Kerrigan claimed to put no stock in Zeratul's "mas prophecies." Raynor very well may have mentioned it to Kerrigan in passing, but it doesn't mean she took it seriously.

You'd think by now humanity would have learned to take the words of old aliens seriously.

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instanc...x/52018103.jpg

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Originally Posted by Gradius

I must have missed the part where he lied to his crew in SC1. :P

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Well, we don't see Raynor's speech to his crew about their motivation in the original, so I don't know that he lied or not, and calling what he tells his crew in Wings of Liberty a lie is pretty dubious, but most importantly when you said you had a problem with Raynor "risking the lives of his crew on Char to save his girlfriend", I did not understand that to mean you had a problem with the way he talked about it.

Yeah, I can see how a "ho's before bro's" guy kinda does inspire one's hatred.

It's very similar to what he did in SC1, but not really the same.

1) Raynor appears to fully buy into the prophecy mumbo-jumbo at the time, telling Matt stuff like "No, that's just it - I think she's the only one that can save it." It's nice that he backpedaled on this behind-the-scenes right after he got what he wanted. The whole thing seems dishonest to me. Call it personal opinion.

2) Raynor gets proof that the prophecy is real when he sees the Hybrid on Castanar. He doesn't really have the option of denial or agnosticism at this point, and he's consciously agreeing to screw over the universe.

3) Before, I could at least rationalize Raynor shooting his best friend in the face because he was trying to save the universe. He was in a tough position with his crew because of what he knew about the prophecy. Now he doesn't even have that excuse.

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Originally Posted by Gradius

That's disappointing then, because risking his crew's lives on Char really was all about "saving his girlfriend" and just gives me another reason to hate his character.

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Oh please, do you really think he took it that seriously?

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Originally Posted by Gradius

2) Raynor gets proof that the prophecy is real when he sees the Hybrid on Castanar. He doesn't really have the option of denial or agnosticism at this point, and he's consciously agreeing to screw over the universe.

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Yeah.

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Originally Posted by Visions of Khas

Lest we forget that Kerrigan claimed to put no stock in Zeratul's "mas prophecies." Raynor very well may have mentioned it to Kerrigan in passing, but it doesn't mean she took it seriously.

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That's just it, and it's likely that even if Raynor told her this, Kerrigan may have just pointed out that the prophecy is still unclear. Remember, when she encountered Zeratul on Ulaan, even HE didn't have a full understanding of it.

There's probably nothing more infuriating in HotS than Raynor's dialogue early in the game

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Originally Posted by Gradius

It's very similar to what he did in SC1, but not really the same.

1) Raynor appears to fully buy into the prophecy mumbo-jumbo at the time, telling Matt stuff like "No, that's just it - I think she's the only one that can save it." It's nice that he backpedaled on this behind-the-scenes right after he got what he wanted. The whole thing seems dishonest to me. Call it personal opinion.

2) Raynor gets proof that the prophecy is real when he sees the Hybrid on Castanar. He doesn't really have the option of denial or agnosticism at this point, and he's consciously agreeing to screw over the universe.

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Oh, definitely. And I can't say it's very reasonable for Raynor to ignore the prophecy, but since I prefer to ignore that arc, if Raynor is willing to facilitate that for me, I'm not going to complain :P.

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Originally Posted by Gradius

3) Before, I could at least rationalize Raynor shooting his best friend in the face because he was trying to save the universe. He was in a tough position with his crew because of what he knew about the prophecy. Now he doesn't even have that excuse.

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I don't think Raynor was supposed to be sympathetic in that moment. I've interpreted that as being quite a dark moment for the character, and think his decision to attack Char has some echoes of Mengsk's overthrow of the Confederacy. I agree with you that it's not something we should approve of, but I don't know that it was a flaw of the storytelling, rather than one of its stronger points.

Then again, I've "fixed" Wings of Liberty quite a bit in my headcannon. I can't be totally sure that I've interpreted that the way the authours intended to, but I prefer to be generous and assume they did.

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Originally Posted by NikoMyCousin

There's probably nothing more infuriating in HotS than Raynor's dialogue early in the game

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What did you expect? He just wanted to be happy with her, the last thing he needed now was more outside meddling.

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Originally Posted by ragnarok

What did you expect? He just wanted to be happy with her, the last thing he needed now was more outside meddling.

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I at least expected Raynor to show some sort of anger towards Mengsk for manipulating his best friend. I didn't expect that his character would denounce a revolution fought for 4 years after "ordering good men to their deaths" just because he rescued Kerrigan. And I won't buy that he is prioritizing the end of the universe over his revolution; he outright thinks he's a key player in it's destruction in WoL.

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Originally Posted by NikoMyCousin

I at least expected Raynor to show some sort of anger towards Mengsk for manipulating his best friend. I didn't expect that his character would denounce a revolution fought for 4 years after "ordering good men to their deaths" just because he rescued Kerrigan. And I won't buy that he is prioritizing the end of the universe over his revolution; he outright thinks he's a key player in it's destruction in WoL.

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Yeah I know what you mean. After being hunted yet again in Flashpoint, I had expected that as well.

Of course, I'm sure even if both of them had escaped the facility and BOTH made it back to the Hyperion, Kerrigan would have had little difficulty to convince him to take the fight to Mengsk anyway...

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Originally Posted by NikoMyCousin

There's probably nothing more infuriating in HotS than Raynor's dialogue early in the game

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"I never gave up on you Sarah! Don't give up on us!"

*hurls violently*

I still stand by my statement that Raynor never really had a chance to tell Kerrigan anything about the prophecy. His first priority when rescuing her was to make sure she was okay/not gonna go full zerg and murder everyone. After that, she was trapped in Val's labs, with no privacy. She wasn't let out until the events of HotS, where the two had little time to get much talking done. And apparently Raynor felt it was more important to talk about how much he loves the murdering monster.

If that point had been in WoL, I might have shot someone. Since it was in HotS, my skin had already been hardened, my hopes crushed, and so I expected that shit. It was just cringe/funny to me.

Nah, it got a full on rage moment from me. To go from vague hints of romance to straight up mushy talk and a kiss no one wanted...I didn't think Blizzard would go that low. Heh, the scene that really made me laugh was in WoL, when Zeratul's first words to Raynor were "I bring tidings of doom." I literally laughed out loud.

Hey Econ, have you expounded on how you feel about WoL/HotS yet? I enjoy negativity, so I would love to hear your opinion.

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Originally Posted by NikoMyCousin

There's probably nothing more infuriating in HotS than Raynor's dialogue early in the game

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Ooh, I'm still gonna have to go with Zerus/the Primal stuff. Actually I've got a few contenders. :P

My 2nd biggest issue with HotS was the nagging urge to to get Dahaka a lozenge.

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Originally Posted by DemolitionSquid

My 2nd biggest issue with HotS was the nagging urge to to get Dahaka a lozenge.

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I thought it added essence.







I'll just see my way out.

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Originally Posted by Robear

Ooh, I'm still gonna have to go with Zerus/the Primal stuff. Actually I've got a few contenders. :P

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To me this could imply Zeratul did not put ALL his memories and experienced into the crystal when he gave it to Raynor in WoL, since he knew Raynor would never agree to Zerus.

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Originally Posted by Nissa

I still stand by my statement that Raynor never really had a chance to tell Kerrigan anything about the prophecy.

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Couldn't she just mind-read him to find that out? I mean, c'mon, surely it can't be as hard as lifting a marine over a chasm. Ooer, wait a minute....

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Originally Posted by Turalyon

Couldn't she just mind-read him to find that out? I mean, c'mon, surely it can't be as hard as lifting a marine over a chasm. Ooer, wait a minute....

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That 2nd part was Blizzard short sightedness.

For the 1st part, neither of them took the prophecy seriously. Kerrigan still isn't fully convinced even by the end of HotS, she's only convinced that it can't be ignored.

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Originally Posted by Turalyon

Couldn't she just mind-read him to find that out? I mean, c'mon, surely it can't be as hard as lifting a marine over a chasm. Ooer, wait a minute....

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We won't make them split up in the sequence where doors are being shut.

Nah.

We'll split them up at a bridge.

That's almost as bad as including a flying mount in a WoW expansion's collector's edition that won't have any flying

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Hey Econ, have you expounded on how you feel about WoL/HotS yet? I enjoy negativity, so I would love to hear your opinion.

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Oh my, you have no idea. Given the activity that dropped off after WoL, I'd say close to a tenth of all posts here are me bitching about Blizzard or StarCraft or general stuff. Honestly, I'm the most positive, non-negative person you'll ever meet in real life but there's something about all of this that brings negativity out of even me.

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Originally Posted by TheEconomist

Oh my, you have no idea. Given the activity that dropped off after WoL, I'd say close to a tenth of all posts here are me bitching about Blizzard or StarCraft or general stuff. Honestly, I'm the most positive, non-negative person you'll ever meet in real life but there's something about all of this that brings negativity out of even me.

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How interesting. I'm the most negative, non-positive person you'll ever meet in real life. You're like my evil twin.

You're not negative. You just deflect constructive criticism and project your own failures onto other people.

Well, so, yeah, you're pretty negative.

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Originally Posted by NikoMyCousin

We won't make them split up in the sequence where doors are being shut.

Nah.

We'll split them up at a bridge.

That's almost as bad as including a flying mount in a WoW expansion's collector's edition that won't have any flying

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That was even more idiotic in that the Archangel didn't just carpet bomb the dropship so that neither of them could escape the facility.

Though Blizzard would probably just argue that the shuttle bay wasn't large enough. But then, if that was true, how could the Archangel still even fly around in the shuttle bay?