Re: Zerg Genetics Engineering Retcon?
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Originally Posted by
ragnarok
Did you forget about "The Amerigo" mission in the SC1 Zerg campaign? After that mission, the cage was opened. If so, it probably just caused her psionic power to keep growing and growing. This was why by the end of SC1, she was strong enough to control half the swarm, yet by the end of the Brood War, could control the WHOLE of the swarm by herself, without the cerebrates at all.
Didn't forget it at all. Unlocking her hidden capability does not equal growing psionic power nor does it mean that she's suddenly worth a billion Protoss in terms of psionic power. The Overmind was aware that the humans were only in their infancy in terms of psionic potential anyway so there's no way one can say that Kerrigan was immediately going to be the best psionic ever/worth a billion Protoss in psionic power for Duran's Amon revival scheme at the time.
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Originally Posted by
ragnarok
The way I see it, if Kerrigan was never infested, then perhaps Duran would have eventually put the Xel'Naga artifact in the middle of millions of Protoss or something, activate it, kill them all, and have nearby hybrids collect all the psionic energy from that, which is then transferred to Amon.
And yet he didn't do this during Sc1 when literally thousands of Protoss were dying, with their psionic energy floating around the ether not being collected, was because.....? There's just no excuse except for the lamest cop-out of all - "oh, Duran just didn't think of it at the time". It's more like: "the artifact wasn't invented yet" which is the real reason. Even when it was "invented" for the plot, it has cascading issues in creating a logical sequence of events.
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Originally Posted by
ragnarok
For the Black Soulstone, I wouldn't know. I'm only in it for the SC series, I don't pay attention to the WC and Diablo series.
Good. Keep it that way. Ignorance is best when it comes to what those other two have become. :p
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Originally Posted by
ragnarok
But that doesn't make any sense.
Ah, the familiar cry of all Sc fans out there. :p
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Originally Posted by
ragnarok
Remember, Narud was the head researcher of the Moebius Foundation. It was Moebius that gave Raynor the intel on where the artifact pieces were located. So obviously it had to be Narud who found their locations.
You are exactly right. I actually am aware that Narud knows where the pieces are, but that doesn't mean he knew where they were when we knew him only as Duran - I did say "at the time", afterall. If Narud/Duran did know of the artifacts existence at the time of BW or even before, why hadn't he collected before hand in preparation to use it against Kerrigan earlier? It must be because he didn't know about it then or he's stupid/lacks foresight or some other plot-hole covering excuse. See now how I keep referring to everything happening in Sc now being so "convenient"? Well, this is just another example.
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Originally Posted by
ragnarok
I guess you can argue that during the BW, Duran didn't know where the artifact pieces were or something. But if that's true, then this may suggest that the artifact was NOT created by Amon.
Think about it: if Amon made the artifact, he would have told Duran where to find them in order for his revival. Unless, of course, he was stupid and decided to test Duran to find it for himself, which would made no sense.
I can think up of another reason, but it's still just as lame. Here it is: Duran didn't actually/have the ability to communicate with Amon prior to him being resurrected. Duran was actually just doing his own thing like a good ignorant acolyte based off some remnant notes and diaries that Amon left behind before he was killed So, the artifact could've still been made by Amon or another of his agents and that Duran may be the last of Amon's servants of some such nonsense.
Another convenient contrivance I hear you saying, right? Well, if so then you're catching on now. ;)
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Originally Posted by
ragnarok
Well, I guess you have to look at it this way: we only have a THEORY that a nearby hybrid absorbed the psionic energy and transferred it to Amon. We don't know if that's REALLY what had happened. Hell, for all we know, it wasn't even a nearby hybrid that did the assimilating, but rather Duran himself.
This is just an admission that "we still know nothing and anything could still happen". This is bad in so many ways least of which is that there is no solid footing/grounding on the lore and acts as precedent for more ludicrous notions (ie: so you thought Raynor was human did you?). Also, given that we have two-thirds of the game done and yet still have no concrete answers, one wonders why this had to be trilogy again.
"What was that, Mr Cynic? Did I hear you say cash-in?" The man speaks truth afterall. :p
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Originally Posted by
ragnarok
If you recall from Hand of Darkness, even with the primal infestation, the hybrid dominators could still psionically drain Kerrigan's life force, but it would take a few minutes. It's possible that during the FIRST infestation, the hybrids could have done the same thing, but they couldn't do it INSTANTANEOUSLY.
Why not? She was weaker before/initially than she is now - it should be easier if not instantaneous. If there were fewer Hybrids then, it still shouldn't be that much of a problem to drain Kerrigan. Why? It's only been at most 5 years between BW and HotS and Duran has probably been making Hybrids for millenia since he wasn't having trouble making them (you said the "sped up" quote was more to do with Kerrigan being a recent and ready source of Amon resurrection power for the Hybrids to absorb rather than it implying that he had limiting factor in making Hybrids up until Kerrigan induction to the Swarm) as Dark Origins originally implied - there should be enough Hybrids for the task even then. Unless your saying that the Hybrids are actually new and only came into useful existence (as in being able to absorb psionic power) when BW introduced them in Dark Origins but then that's a kind of a back-peddle/back-flip.
Given that primal infestation is able to produce even more powerful psionics than what the initial infestation process was, one wonders why this wasn't harnessed by Amon and Duran. Duran had millenia and could have ferried any latent human psionic potential to Zerus and dipped them in and killed them for an immediate source of Amon resurrection java. Oh, that's right, Kerrigan is supposed to be special, how could I forget? :rolleyes:
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Originally Posted by
ragnarok
Beats me, I think in some ways, the Xel'Naga might have encouraged the Protoss for space exploration and such or something. It's not like it took Zeratul much effort to locate Zerus, after all.
So the plan was for the Protoss to eventually and naturally to happen across a planet full of an aggressive and invasive strain of lifeforms and then happily allow themselves to be assimilated by them? What's the difference? Geez, the Xel'Naga are a billion times worse than Panda's at having sex.
As for Zeratul knowing Zerus' location, I take it Overdar/Tassamind must have told him secretly but we weren't privy to it. Either that, or some pixie faerie creature thing from a parallel dimension told him. Same thing. :D
Re: Zerg Genetics Engineering Retcon?
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Originally Posted by
Turalyon
Didn't forget it at all. Unlocking her hidden capability does not equal growing psionic power nor does it mean that she's suddenly worth a billion Protoss in terms of psionic power. The Overmind was aware that the humans were only in their infancy in terms of psionic potential anyway so there's no way one can say that Kerrigan was immediately going to be the best psionic ever/worth a billion Protoss in psionic power for Duran's Amon revival scheme at the time.
Then it'll just have to be a matter that prior to infestation, Kerrigan's psionics were much stronger than that of the avg Protoss anyway.
That is, unless we see in LotV their true power is actually a LOT stronger than we thought before. And that WOULD make sense, as strength lies in numbers, not one being. No matter how much her power grows from the primal infestation, Kerrigan knows she's no match for the WHOLE of the Protoss species all by herself.
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Originally Posted by
Turalyon
And yet he didn't do this during Sc1 when literally thousands of Protoss were dying, with their psionic energy floating around the ether not being collected, was because.....? There's just no excuse except for the lamest cop-out of all - "oh, Duran just didn't think of it at the time". It's more like: "the artifact wasn't invented yet" which is the real reason. Even when it was "invented" for the plot, it has cascading issues in creating a logical sequence of events.
Well you can't really say that since the artifact is thousands of years old, so obviously it WAS invented by the time of SC1. Again, this seems to suggest that the artifact was NOT created by Amon, and therefore Duran didn't know where it was as of that time.
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Originally Posted by
Turalyon
You are exactly right. I actually am aware that Narud knows where the pieces are, but that doesn't mean he knew where they were when we knew him only as Duran - I did say "at the time", afterall. If Narud/Duran did know of the artifacts existence at the time of BW or even before, why hadn't he collected before hand in preparation to use it against Kerrigan earlier? It must be because he didn't know about it then or he's stupid/lacks foresight or some other plot-hole covering excuse. See now how I keep referring to everything happening in Sc now being so "convenient"? Well, this is just another example.
I know that. Again, Duran couldn't have known the location of where the artifact was by BW or something or he would have used it earlier.
However, you also have to remember: we DON'T KNOW what Duran was doing during those 4 years. Ok you can argue we know on a general scale, but not on the SPECIFIC matters. It's possible that after he left Kerrigan at the end of BW, he went into research to look for some other ways to deinfest her, since the hybrids haven't awoken yet.
And eventually, he stumbled across the artifact, which again would imply it was NOT created by Amon.
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Originally Posted by
Turalyon
I can think up of another reason, but it's still just as lame. Here it is: Duran didn't actually/have the ability to communicate with Amon prior to him being resurrected. Duran was actually just doing his own thing like a good ignorant acolyte based off some remnant notes and diaries that Amon left behind before he was killed So, the artifact could've still been made by Amon or another of his agents and that Duran may be the last of Amon's servants of some such nonsense.
Another convenient contrivance I hear you saying, right? Well, if so then you're catching on now.
That's even more idiotic. The Protoss have the ability to speak to those in the afterlife via the Khala, and Duran's knowledge of Xel'Naga tech makes him more intellectual than the Protoss. So unless Amon was in some sort of REALLY complicated afterlife place...
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Originally Posted by
Turalyon
This is just an admission that "we still know nothing and anything could still happen". This is bad in so many ways least of which is that there is no solid footing/grounding on the lore and acts as precedent for more ludicrous notions (ie: so you thought Raynor was human did you?). Also, given that we have two-thirds of the game done and yet still have no concrete answers, one wonders why this had to be trilogy again.
And this is EXACTLY why I'm skeptical of Metzen's claim back in Blizzcon 2010 that once LotV ends, everything would come together.
To me, this isn't possible unless LotV is at least 800 missions long, with an average of at least 10 hours per mission.
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Originally Posted by
Turalyon
Why not? She was weaker before/initially than she is now - it should be easier if not instantaneous. If there were fewer Hybrids then, it still shouldn't be that much of a problem to drain Kerrigan. Why? It's only been at most 5 years between BW and HotS and Duran has probably been making Hybrids for millenia since he wasn't having trouble making them (you said the "sped up" quote was more to do with Kerrigan being a recent and ready source of Amon resurrection power for the Hybrids to absorb rather than it implying that he had limiting factor in making Hybrids up until Kerrigan induction to the Swarm) as Dark Origins originally implied - there should be enough Hybrids for the task even then. Unless your saying that the Hybrids are actually new and only came into useful existence (as in being able to absorb psionic power) when BW introduced them in Dark Origins but then that's a kind of a back-peddle/back-flip.
Given that primal infestation is able to produce even more powerful psionics than what the initial infestation process was, one wonders why this wasn't harnessed by Amon and Duran. Duran had millenia and could have ferried any latent human psionic potential to Zerus and dipped them in and killed them for an immediate source of Amon resurrection java. Oh, that's right, Kerrigan is supposed to be special, how could I forget?
Not that. Yes, Duran hasn't had trouble making the hybrids for so long, but perhaps by allying with Mengsk, he used terran tech to SPEED UP the hybrid's awakening process.
It's possible that when Duran left her by the end of BW, he didn't expect her to amass the Zerg on Char for so long, thus making plans to deal with Amon. If true, then Duran realized that Kerrigan was not blind to what lay ahead.
As for the primal infestation to produce even more powerful psionics, perhaps Duran felt Kerrigan wouldn't have survived the pool, in which case there WOULD be no way to harness the psionic energy.
It's not about her being special or anything. She may have told Abathur that her hate was strong enough to survive it, but anyone who's see enough of Raynor and Kerrigan's relationship knows that she only survived because of her desire to avenge his "death". If you had seen the 2009 X-Men Origins: Wolverine, you would see similarities.
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Originally Posted by
Turalyon
As for Zeratul knowing Zerus' location, I take it Overdar/Tassamind must have told him secretly but we weren't privy to it. Either that, or some pixie faerie creature thing from a parallel dimension told him. Same thing.
Well if Tassadar told him that, I guess that'd be ok as well, but the fact still remains he was able to get to Zerus MUCH quicker than when the Overmind could reach the Koprulu Sector, probably because it was in the middle of assimilating everything.
As for the Xel'Naga worse than Panda's at having sex, this is why I still hope to see a happy ending for Raynor and Kerrigan. If nothing else they've fought enough, someone else needs to take up their mantle in SC3.
Unfortunately, Blizzard is never going to allow the players to see him getting laid, especially not by a primal Zerg/terran hybrid. That cannot be tolerated in a T rating game.
Re: Zerg Genetics Engineering Retcon?
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Originally Posted by
Turalyon
It's a clear case of invoked
Surrounded by Idiots trope. Zeratul does mention Terrans afterall, and we all know how dumb those bunch of rednecks are. :rolleyes::p
I queried that just above. I think, with what is revealed in Sc2 so far, is that Duran is hurrying up because he's afraid of Kerrigan (being the one who can stop Amon and end everything I suppose) and
not meaning that he was having trouble making Hybrids until Kerrigan's induction provided the key since that would imply a very tight time course for the Hybrids in becoming a
ready threat 4 years later in Sc2. Either way, he wouldn't admit any of this to Zeratul.
The problem with this solution is that it doesn't explain why Duran just didn't kill Kerrigan when he was pretending to be her lieutenant in BW. Hmm, I'm beginning to wonder whether Sc2 is just another abbreviation for Swiss Cheese 2 - could explain the numerous plot holes and "cheesiness" that everyone is noticing.
So what was the point of Duran helping Kerrigan?
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Originally Posted by
ragnarok
Then it'll just have to be a matter that prior to infestation, Kerrigan's psionics were much stronger than that of the avg Protoss anyway.
A human stronger than a protoss? I call BS.
I even hated it in Brood War that Kerrigan was able to mind control Raszagal. The zerg are not natural psychics. The terrans are not natural psychics. It's preposterous for Kerrigan to be that much stronger than an average protoss.
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That is, unless we see in LotV their true power is actually a LOT stronger than we thought before. And that WOULD make sense, as strength lies in numbers, not one being. No matter how much her power grows from the primal infestation, Kerrigan knows she's no match for the WHOLE of the Protoss species all by herself.
That's reassuring....
Kerrigan can slaughter centuries-old natural psychics by the droves, but at least she can't take on the entire race singlehandedly! Wow, we really dodged a bullet there! :P
Too bad Kerrigan can't take on the entire terran race singlehandedly either, so what exactly does that prove?
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That's even more idiotic. The Protoss have the ability to speak to those in the afterlife via the Khala
Actually they can't. There was a Q&A a while back that revealed that only accessing the memories is about the most of what they can do. There's no "protoss heaven" or anything like that.
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Unfortunately, Blizzard is never going to allow the players to see him getting laid, especially not by a primal Zerg/terran hybrid. That cannot be tolerated in a T rating game.
Interspecies sex was a thing in mass effect. But infested Kerrigan sex just grosses me out.
Here's a closeup of her vajayjay: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zx-9jydTuHg
Re: Zerg Genetics Engineering Retcon?
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Originally Posted by
Gradius
So what was the point of Duran helping Kerrigan?
It's merely to string her along, maybe Duran didn't know how powerful she really was and stayed at her side to analyze her. Then, once he had taken what's needed, he turned back to the hybrid project to exploit a weakness in her.
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Originally Posted by
Gradius
A human stronger than a protoss? I call BS.
I even hated it in Brood War that Kerrigan was able to mind control Raszagal. The zerg are not natural psychics. The terrans are not natural psychics. It's preposterous for Kerrigan to be that much stronger than an average protoss.
You recall the psychic domination effect Nova had in "Ghost of a Chance"? Kerrigan's ability was a lot like that, just more enhanced.
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Originally Posted by
Gradius
That's reassuring....
Kerrigan can slaughter centuries-old natural psychics by the droves, but at least she can't take on the entire race singlehandedly! Wow, we really dodged a bullet there! :P
Too bad Kerrigan can't take on the entire race singlehandedly either, so what exactly does that prove?
If you recall at the beginning of BW mission 3 for the Protoss, Raszagal had said that when their energies are combined, their power is undeniable.
Maybe Kerrigan too realized this some time along the way, and if the Protoss really did unite together against her without any petty conflicts or anything like that, they're a LOT more powerful than she would originally think.
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Originally Posted by
Gradius
Interspecies sex was a thing in mass effect. But infested Kerrigan sex just grosses me out.
Don't worry, it's only being done on fanfics, and even that's still in its experimental stage. Besides, Raynor would live with her on the Leviathan amidst all the Zerg if that's what it came down to, and you and I both know if that happened, he'd eventually want to conssumate their relationship.
You can argue all you want about wanting both of them roast in hell once LotV ends, I still want a good ending for them.
Re: Zerg Genetics Engineering Retcon?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ragnarok
Then it'll just have to be a matter that prior to infestation, Kerrigan's psionics were much stronger than that of the avg Protoss anyway.
That is, unless we see in LotV their true power is actually a LOT stronger than we thought before. And that WOULD make sense, as strength lies in numbers, not one being. No matter how much her power grows from the primal infestation, Kerrigan knows she's no match for the WHOLE of the Protoss species all by herself.
Kerrigan being stronger psionically than the average Protoss prior to her infestation would be a heinous retcon. It undermines the original concept of the Overmind fearing the Protoss of their psionics - if the humans are more powerful, why doesn't it follow that the Overmind shouldn't fear the Terrans even more? Hell, why even bother with the Protoss at all? It undermines the concept of the Terrans as being a stepping stone for the Overmind and that the Terrans only have minor psionic abilities. It implies that it could've been any random Ghost who could've got infested and had their hidden power unlocked by assaulting the Amerigo becoming the uber-psionic entity. Kerrigan was only special because she was unluckily and unexpectedly gifted to the Zerg, not because she is the best psionic ever by divine right.
As to your second point about showing the Protoss being more powerful than Kerrigan psionically, we're stuck in the same boat as previously: Duran could've harvested the Protoss much earlier and more easily if he needed psionic power to revive Amon.
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Originally Posted by
ragnarok
Well you can't really say that since the artifact is thousands of years old, so obviously it WAS invented by the time of SC1. Again, this seems to suggest that the artifact was NOT created by Amon, and therefore Duran didn't know where it was as of that time.
I meant "invented" in the meaning that it was "conjured by the writers on a whim". What you have just said above is exactly the same as what I said in the quote you responded to. It all reeks of contrived convenience/coincidence.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ragnarok
Again, Duran couldn't have known the location of where the artifact was by BW or something or he would have used it earlier.
That's a major plot-hole. Duran just happens to not know where the artifact is when he could've mostly benefited from it (like finished off both the Zerg and the Protoss before they even caught on) to suddenly knowing where the artifact is to get the benefit from it right when he needed it.
Also, just because he didn't use it doesn't necessarily mean he didn't know where it was or what it could do. Given the guy is millenia old and seems to have unfettered access to anything anywhere - it's suspiciously blind of him to not know that something as useful as the Xel'Naga artifact existed or that he had some hand in creating it given that it has a specific use that only seems to benefit his agenda.
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Originally Posted by
ragnarok
And eventually, he stumbled across the artifact, which again would imply it was NOT created by Amon.
So Duran's millenia long plan involved him having to guess and find a crucial aspect for his plan in order to come to fruition at the last minute? I guess we can chalk Duran's foresight as yet another (in a long line of them) "informed attribute" for Sc characters.
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Originally Posted by
ragnarok
That's even more idiotic.
You are learning, Padawan.
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Originally Posted by
ragnarok
And this is EXACTLY why I'm skeptical of Metzen's claim back in Blizzcon 2010 that once LotV ends, everything would come together.
It will come together because it will end with Metzen waking up from the dream that was Sc2 sometime in early 2000's and rushing into Blizz HQ saying "I've got a cool idea that will makes us bucketloads no matter what!" thereby mirroring the the cyclical nature of the Xel'naga.
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Originally Posted by
ragnarok
Not that. Yes, Duran hasn't had trouble making the hybrids for so long, but perhaps by allying with Mengsk, he used terran tech to SPEED UP the hybrid's awakening process.
It's possible that when Duran left her by the end of BW, he didn't expect her to amass the Zerg on Char for so long, thus making plans to deal with Amon. If true, then Duran realized that Kerrigan was not blind to what lay ahead.
As for the primal infestation to produce even more powerful psionics, perhaps Duran felt Kerrigan wouldn't have survived the pool, in which case there WOULD be no way to harness the psionic energy.
It's not about her being special or anything. She may have told Abathur that her hate was strong enough to survive it, but anyone who's see enough of Raynor and Kerrigan's relationship knows that she only survived because of her desire to avenge his "death". If you had seen the 2009 X-Men Origins: Wolverine, you would see similarities.
Eh, the exact reason, even if revealed and whatever they are, will never be satisfactory to the plot-hole that caused all the initial kerfuffle about it. You might as well be saying "magic pixies had something to do with it". :p
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Originally Posted by
ragnarok
the fact still remains he was able to get to Zerus MUCH quicker than when the Overmind could reach the Koprulu Sector
Surprisingly, I'm beginning to regard this is as one of the lesser issues given all the invented plot devices so far. Let's just say it was a "special magic wormhole". There, done. ;)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ragnarok
Unfortunately, Blizzard is never going to allow the players to see him getting laid, especially not by a primal Zerg/terran hybrid. That cannot be tolerated in a T rating game.
Not to mention that bestiality is immoral and illegal. :eek::D
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Originally Posted by
Gradius
So what was the point of Duran helping Kerrigan?
Good question. The threat of Kerrigan now was due in part to Duran's assistance throughout BW. It's just another way of asking why Duran didn't just kill her. A plot-hole.
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Originally Posted by
Gradius
Phwoar, you shore do got sum purdy teef there.
Re: Zerg Genetics Engineering Retcon?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Turalyon
Kerrigan being stronger psionically than the average Protoss prior to her infestation would be a heinous retcon. It undermines the original concept of the Overmind fearing the Protoss of their psionics - if the humans are more powerful, why doesn't it follow that the Overmind shouldn't fear the Terrans even more? Hell, why even bother with the Protoss at all? It undermines the concept of the Terrans as being a stepping stone for the Overmind and that the Terrans only have minor psionic abilities. It implies that it could've been any random Ghost who could've got infested and had their hidden power unlocked by assaulting the Amerigo becoming the uber-psionic entity. Kerrigan was only special because she was unluckily and unexpectedly gifted to the Zerg, not because she is the best psionic ever by divine right.
Why didn't the Overmind fear the terrans more? That's an easy one in such a case: it's quantity over quality. Kerrigan's psionic level was much higher than normal terran psionics, but you have to remember that the AVERAGE terran had no psionic power at all. In comparison, ALL Protoss have psionic abilities, though they vary in strength.
Besides, you can't infest random people and expect it to work. The Zerg virus is largely incompatible with terran DNA. Kerrigan's infestation was a rare example of a successful attempt, and she tried to change the virus so it'd be more successful on terrans, which worked on Ethan Stewart.
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Originally Posted by
Turalyon
I meant "invented" in the meaning that it was "conjured by the writers on a whim". What you have just said above is exactly the same as what I said in the quote you responded to. It all reeks of contrived convenience/coincidence.
Well yeah as of this moment, unless Blizzard tells us how the artifact originated from, why it was originally built, and so on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Turalyon
So Duran's millenia long plan involved him having to guess and find a crucial aspect for his plan in order to come to fruition at the last minute? I guess we can chalk Duran's foresight as yet another (in a long line of them) "informed attribute" for Sc characters.
No, you're not getting the point. Remember, even with the primal infestation, the hybrid dominators could still psionically drain Kerrigan. It's entirely possible that the ORIGINAL plan (if the artifact never existed) was to awaken enough hybrids to attack Kerrigan all at once. Some of the hybrids would hold off the Zerg under her command, others would psionically drain her.
Remember, since the original infestation is weaker than the primal infestation, it means Kerrigan's psionic energy would have been drained much quicker in the original infestation. This process would have been sped up had more than 1 hybrid been psionically attacking her.
The problem with Duran's plan in trying to revive Amon wasn't due to Kerrigan's primal infestation, but rather that she got the primal infestation TOO SOON, before enough hybrids could be awakened (mainly due to Zeratul telling her about Zerus).
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Originally Posted by
Turalyon
Also, just because he didn't use it doesn't necessarily mean he didn't know where it was or what it could do. Given the guy is millenia old and seems to have unfettered access to anything anywhere - it's suspiciously blind of him to not know that something as useful as the Xel'Naga artifact existed or that he had some hand in creating it given that it has a specific use that only seems to benefit his agenda.
True, unless the relic was made by other Xel'Naga, who tried their best to hide it from Duran and Amon's grasp before they were wiped out by the Zerg. If that's the case, it could explain why it took so long for Duran to find it.
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Originally Posted by
Turalyon
It will come together because it will end with Metzen waking up from the dream that was Sc2 sometime in early 2000's and rushing into Blizz HQ saying "I've got a cool idea that will makes us bucketloads no matter what!" thereby mirroring the the cyclical nature of the Xel'naga.
I'm actually curious how the SC fans would react if that really WAS the LotV ending...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Turalyon
Eh, the exact reason, even if revealed and whatever they are, will never be satisfactory to the plot-hole that caused all the initial kerfuffle about it. You might as well be saying "magic pixies had something to do with it".
You can say that, but I still try to look at Blizzard logic and try to come up with a reason other than what you just wrote.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Turalyon
Surprisingly, I'm beginning to regard this is as one of the lesser issues given all the invented plot devices so far. Let's just say it was a "special magic wormhole". There, done.
Or it may have something to do with the wormhole that Zeratul traveled through at the end of the Dark Templar Saga: Twilight. Maybe he figured out a way to generate another one just like it, thus giving Kerrigan a quicker way to reach Zerus, then return to the Korpulu Sector really fast.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Turalyon
Not to mention that bestiality is immoral and illegal.
No it's not. Kerrigan would never hurt Raynor like that after all the times she's hurt him already. She knows she can never be pardoned for what she did, nor can she take away the pain she caused him, as well as caused him to inflict, but she still has the power to heal, and she would do just that, after all the times Raynor had healed her.
Re: Zerg Genetics Engineering Retcon?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ragnarok
Why didn't the Overmind fear the terrans more? That's an easy one in such a case: it's quantity over quality. Kerrigan's psionic level was much higher than normal terran psionics, but you have to remember that the AVERAGE terran had no psionic power at all. In comparison, ALL Protoss have psionic abilities, though they vary in strength.
The question was rhetorical and just a part to prove a point that Kerrigan was not anything special or unique prior to infestation and not meant to be answered individually.
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Originally Posted by
ragnarok
Besides, you can't infest random people and expect it to work.
Funny you say that because that's exactly what happened to Kerrigan. To the Overmind, she was just a random person with psionic potential that was gifted to it by some stroke of luck and it fully expected that it could subvert her psionic potential for it's own use.
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Originally Posted by
ragnarok
Remember, since the original infestation is weaker than the primal infestation, it means Kerrigan's psionic energy would have been drained much quicker in the original infestation. This process would have been sped up had more than 1 hybrid been psionically attacking her.
So the question again shifts back to why Duran was not able to drain Kerrigan's original infestation sooner (like in Sc1 or BW) rather than later (like at the end of WoL) since he already has access to Hybrids due to him having been making them for millenia.
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Originally Posted by
ragnarok
True, unless the relic was made by other Xel'Naga, who tried their best to hide it from Duran and Amon's grasp before they were wiped out by the Zerg. If that's the case, it could explain why it took so long for Duran to find it.
Those examples you gave were much like my own. And, just as I alluded to previously, there's always a excuse to justify this convenient turn of events and that such excuses are always lame.
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Originally Posted by
ragnarok
You can say that, but I still try to look at Blizzard logic and try to come up with a reason other than what you just wrote.
Doesn't matter in the end, after all these revelatory convolutions any reason offered to explain them end up just riffing off the same theme of "well, this thing happened or that thing happened" such that any and all possible reasons end up feeling to be the same regardless.
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Originally Posted by
ragnarok
Or it may have something to do with the wormhole that Zeratul traveled through at the end of the Dark Templar Saga: Twilight. Maybe he figured out a way to generate another one just like it, thus giving Kerrigan a quicker way to reach Zerus, then return to the Korpulu Sector really fast.
See? Wasn't that hard to make something up afterall, right?
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Originally Posted by
ragnarok
No it's not. Kerrigan would never hurt Raynor like that after all the times she's hurt him already. She knows she can never be pardoned for what she did, nor can she take away the pain she caused him, as well as caused him to inflict, but she still has the power to heal, and she would do just that, after all the times Raynor had healed her.
Wha...? I have no idea what you're talking about here. I thought I was just making a joke about how many levels of wrong it is for Raynor to bone the infested creature that is Kerrigan. :confused:
Re: Zerg Genetics Engineering Retcon?
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Originally Posted by
Turalyon
Funny you say that because that's exactly what happened to Kerrigan. To the Overmind, she was just a random person with psionic potential that was gifted to it by some stroke of luck and it fully expected that it could subvert her psionic potential for it's own use.
No, it worked on her because her DNA was rare and compatible. If you had read the short story SC: Hybrid, you'd know exactly what I'm talking about here.
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Originally Posted by
Turalyon
So the question again shifts back to why Duran was not able to drain Kerrigan's original infestation sooner (like in Sc1 or BW) rather than later (like at the end of WoL) since he already has access to Hybrids due to him having been making them for millenia.
No he didn't. By the time of BW, the hybrids had not yet awakened. As far as we know, Maar was the FIRST awakened hybrid, and that was 4 years later in WoL.
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Originally Posted by
Turalyon
Those examples you gave were much like my own. And, just as I alluded to previously, there's always a excuse to justify this convenient turn of events and that such excuses are always lame.
Be that as it may, it'd be a hell of a lot better than if Blizzard just says "Oh we didn't think of that."
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Originally Posted by
Turalyon
Doesn't matter in the end, after all these revelatory convolutions any reason offered to explain them end up just riffing off the same theme of "well, this thing happened or that thing happened" such that any and all possible reasons end up feeling to be the same regardless.
True, but I still believe Blizzard had to have considered the fans may ask such Qs. That's what I've done on battlenet, when I tried to think in their shoes.
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Originally Posted by
Turalyon
See? Wasn't that hard to make something up afterall, right?
See that's another matter: I want to know what Zeratul saw on the other side of that wormhole.
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Originally Posted by
Turalyon
Wha...? I have no idea what you're talking about here. I thought I was just making a joke about how many levels of wrong it is for Raynor to bone the infested creature that is Kerrigan.
Well I certainly wasn't. Besides, I'm sure by now, Kerrigan can control her carapace armor much better compared to the first infestation, so it would feel soft as silk to Raynor's touch, and not the least bit harmful to him.
Re: Zerg Genetics Engineering Retcon?
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Originally Posted by
ragnarok
No, it worked on her because her DNA was rare and compatible. If you had read the short story SC: Hybrid, you'd know exactly what I'm talking about here.
Pulling out the "it's your fault for not reading/knowing some unknown and non-descript fluff that most people don't care for or thought existed" excuse, I see.
Besides, it's one thing to say that the Overmind lucked in receiving a gift in the form of Kerrigan (which alone can be criticised for being a contrived coincidence), but to say that she also happened to be the one human who could only be properly infested because of some vague and obligatory specialness, who also happened to be a psionic, who also happened to be the best and most powerful psionic ever, who also happens to be the prophesied saviour of the Zerg but also happens to be the linchpin for Duran's plan for reviving Amon in time to have the story of Sc2 just swings that BS meter way into the red.
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Originally Posted by
ragnarok
No he didn't. By the time of BW, the hybrids had not yet awakened. As far as we know, Maar was the FIRST awakened hybrid, and that was 4 years later in WoL.
Ok. So what you're saying is that Duran "sped up" quote about Kerrigan is that it's got nothing to do with helping or encouraging him to wake the Hybrids faster nor find the artifact sooner but rather that the mere existence of infested Kerrigan alone is an assumed potential quantity of having sped up his progress once he gets either enough Hybrids awoken or the artifact found. That's like saying that the presence of light (psionic energy) will speed up the progress of photosynthesis in a plant (waking Amon) once it has time to grow sufficient roots and leaves (Hybrid creation) and finds sources of water and CO2 (psionic entities with which the artifact pieces render down); which is ridiculous because the process cannot even start, let alone be described as "speeding up", without all the other components and that the speed of the process is actually dependent on the limiting factors of equally important components, not one.
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Originally Posted by
ragnarok
it'd be a hell of a lot better than if Blizzard just says "Oh we didn't think of that."
Unfortunately, a lot of the stuff that's already been given already tends to reeks of this no matter what their intention or how planned out it really was. The QAs they gave either prove that they didn't think of it at the time of release or that they are just terrible writers who couldn't communicate what needed to be communicated. Doesn't look good either way.
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Originally Posted by
ragnarok
I want to know what Zeratul saw on the other side of that wormhole.
Maybe the secret to generate more similar wormholes. Whatever.
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Originally Posted by
ragnarok
Well I certainly wasn't. Besides, I'm sure by now, Kerrigan can control her carapace armor much better compared to the first infestation, so it would feel soft as silk to Raynor's touch, and not the least bit harmful to him.
I'm a little perturbed that you've given the idea even a hint of serious thought... :eek:
Re: Zerg Genetics Engineering Retcon?
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Besides, it's one thing to say that the Overmind lucked in receiving a gift in the form of Kerrigan (which alone can be criticised for being a contrived coincidence), but to say that she also happened to be the one human who could only be properly infested because of some vague and obligatory specialness, who also happened to be a psionic, who also happened to be the best and most powerful psionic ever, who also happens to be the prophesied saviour of the Zerg but also happens to be the linchpin for Duran's plan for reviving Amon in time to have the story of Sc2 just swings that BS meter way into the red.
Haha. Thanks for the laugh. :P
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Originally Posted by
ragnarok
You recall the psychic domination effect Nova had in "Ghost of a Chance"? Kerrigan's ability was a lot like that, just more enhanced.
Some people think the domination effect is telekinetic i.e. Nova actually moved the legs/weapons/fingers on the unit herself. In which case it would be different than Raszagal's mind control, and certainly not something Kerrigan could maintain from lightyears away.
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You can argue all you want about wanting both of them roast in hell once LotV ends, I still want a good ending for them.
Which is what exactly? I think HoTS pretty much put the last nail in the love story coffin ironically. Given that Blizzard will never condone the implication of monster-on-human intercourse, and Kerrigan tells us that she still wants to continue leading the swarm, it's quite unlikely that they'll end up "together". I still believe it's not too late for Raynor to live up to his promise and put a bullet in her head.
