Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gradius
You. Are. Making. Stuff. Up.
Seriously, at this point all you have going for you is misinterpreting "We see a vision that the Overmind had, which shows us the moment when the Dark Voice wins the day." as "he can see the future!" whilst ignoring the fact that Brian just told you that's not how it works: "That vision was a narrative the Overmind constructed from bits and pieces".
A narrative doesn't tell us that it was not a vision of the future.
"Bits and pieces" are not clarified.
And misinterpreting? Any interpretation is a valid interpretation as long as it doesn't break the facts.
Quote:
Only by totally failing at reading comprehension could one interpret the Overmind's vision as that. It simply doesn't say that. x/
Only by totally failing at reading comprehension could one not interpret the Overmind's vision as that. It simply does say that.
Quote:
It's cute that you think you're even allowed to disagree with the lead writer's direct answer on the topic. Not everything is subjective or personal opinion. Sorry.
Making up your own fanon is not just "personal interpretation", it's rampant and baseless theorycrafting.
When the lead writer says it's a vision of the future and not just some extrapolation? Yeah.
Quote:
I assumed that the knowledge was coming from Amon like it says in the Q&A. I had no clue you were ignoring this entirely and postulating the existence of an unproven & baseless second event where the Overmind reads the future outright and ignores Brian's answer entirely. Basically, your position is nonsensical and it took me this long to decipher it.
But we know from the game itself, and Brain himself in the other parts of the Q&A that actually seeing the future is involved.
Quote:
Through trust me, there are still plot holes. The biggest "hole" is just where the heck you think this second divination event came from when Kindregan tells you that the Overmind constructed the vision through no such thing?
Kindregan doesn't tell me that.
He states:
"Answer: The Overmind's consciousness was molded by the entity referred to here as the Dark Voice. During that process, the Overmind was exposed to some of the Dark Voice's plans for the future. Scattered, confused images, sensations, ideas, concepts. Nothing clear or concrete. That vision was a narrative the Overmind constructed from bits and pieces, and it was about all that the Overmind could glean from the time spent with the Dark Voice."
It doesn't state that the Overmind clearly "did not" see the future, when Brian himself states to us that he did as does Zeratul.
It's not just an extrapolation.
Quote:
Again, the irony of this statement from an explanation that demands parallel universes and baseless future precognition is uncanny.
Baseless? IT has a base you just won't see.
And I don't see why I have to prove parallel universes exist, more then I have to prove that protons or electrons exist in the setting.
It's a staple of sci-fi and is home to real world theories. So, why should I have to prove those exist? Should I have to prove that dark energy and dark matter exists in Starcraft as well?
Quote:
I'm not making up anything, merely quoting what Kindregan told us.
Bullshit.
You said Zeratul edited the vision.
Nothing at all states he edited it.
[quote] Because frankly, how the Overmind learned about protoss heroes is completely irrelevant. You don't think this easily-accessible info came from Zeratul? Fine, explain where it came from then. And don't say "he had a vision of the future", because Kindregan already told us where the vision came from. And it's not the future.[/qutoe]
Wrong, he clearly says that elsewhere in the Q&A, and the game itself, and the "constructed narrative" doesn't axe that at all.
Quote:
You realize what an outlandish explanation that is? Especially when there are more reasonable alternatives?
"Hey, how did you know the bus was going to stop here?"
"I got the info from the bus route diagram."
or
"I can see the future."
It's science fiction.
If Zeratul states this is a vision of the future, and we see the future itself, and Brian says the vision shows us the "moment" the Dark Voice would win, guess what?
It's the future.
Quote:
No I get it. I just don't care, because I don't see where you're getting the idea of "perfect physical mechanics" from.
The whole sun thing. That's what this whole discussion is supposed to be about.
Quote:
The Overmind is not omniscient. He didn't know about Aiur's location or that he would find Kerrigan on Tarsonis. Your "interpretation" flies in the face of known canon.
:confused:
What does seeing the future once have to do with omniscience?
Besides, he didn't actually create the vision in his consciousness. It was his sub, or un-conscious mind that did it.
Quote:
Given that you believe that the vision was constructed later, how do you know that the Overmind didn't know the names of protoss heroes, or how hybrids work, etc?
Arguement of Ignorance.
If we don't see it happen, it didn't.
The burden of proof is on the person proving existence, not the one questioning it.
Besides, Void Rays and Stalkers are in the vision, war assets created after the Overmind's death.
Quote:
By that point he had already seen lots of shit and even read Zeratul's mind. How the heck is "future pre-cog" the only thing you can possibly think of to explain this? =/
Because it's in our face that the vision is of the future?
Quote:
Zeratul, Amon and Tassadar know everything in that vision between the three of them. Don't buy that explanation, fine, I don't care, Brian is still clear that the Overmind constructed the narrative from bits and pieces of the knowledge he got from Amon, not some unknown divination event where he saw the "perfect physical truth".
And both Brian and Zeratul state the Overmind had a vision of the future. Not some made up story on "Bros, this likely will happen" it was the definite, "This is going to happen if Kerrigan dies. Here's the moment he wins."
There is not proof that Tassadar or Zeratul added anything to the vision.
Quote:
Yes, the dark voice won the day in the vision. How the hell does that equate to "perfect future pre-cog". -_-
No, the vision shows the moment the Dark Voice won. The moment is a definite event in the future.
And it's not perfect pre-cog. He didn't see all events everywhere. He's not omniscient. He only saw the future. That future changed when Raynor and Zeratul saw the same vision, and were pivotal characters in events that would shape the future.
Quote:
I saw the day that the Titanic sunk in the movie. Guess that means I have the special ability see events from the past.
No, you saw the fictional story. The Overmind saw the real deal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Turalyon
The "Khala" is just a mystical name/religion to describe the innate biological ability (it's not midichlorians as far as I'm aware) of the communal psionic link the Protoss already had and lost contact with after the Xel'Naga's departure (leading to the Aeon of Strife). This was something that the Xel'Naga were well aware of initially.
Eh, sure, but the Khala isn't something that can be easily lost like the link in the Aeon of Strife. DT can't just slink away from it, they have to cut their own nerve chords and mutilate themselves to do it. That says to me the Khala might be a bit stronger, but meh.
Quote:
But you only disagreed once you knew/it was revealed later (in the EU) that it wasn't possible in the first place - hindsight bias.
How do you know that? I never took it for granted because I never saw it done by the Overmind or an infested Protoss.
Quote:
It is a "minor" or rather insignificant thing because it is naturally assumed that the Overmind can assimilate the Protoss at the time given that the Overmind knew about them through the Xel'Naga, goes to great lengths to find them and then gloat that it will assimilate the Protoss becoming perfect.
I disagree at that.
Nothing should be taken for granted without the actual display of ability.
Quote:
It is is "minor" because we don't really need to state it because it's taken for granted. And that's my point, if we can't take something as simple as this for granted, why bother taking anything else they tell/reveal to us for granted? That's the rub.
I don't think such a thing was simple or such a thing could be taken for granted. Kerrigan's transformation was such a big deal, and she was back in SC1 not at all a psionic powerhouse.
The first time we ever see anything that's Protoss/Zerg are the Hybrids from Duran, and the set up for that? It makes me doubt the Overmind could do it especially since we never even saw failures like we did with the Hybrids.
Quote:
But why should I? There is nothing there to tell me I should break up the vision in parts and think one way about this part and think another for the other part? How does this whole scene make this a naturally intuitive thing for the audience member to do? It doesn't.
Because wibbly wobbly timey wimey.
Doctor Who has influenced me about how I view time and meta-time, universes and parallel universes so that's all I can say about it.
Quote:
This still doesn't rectify what I mentioned earlier about something either being wholly truth or not (as you yourself took great pains to tell me that you understood that). If one part of it is false, then how do you know the other part isn't either?
One part is only false because of direct changes caused by those who want to change that future.
This again, doesn't change what those factions can actually do capability wise on a strict unit to unit basis.
As such, if Hybrids ever get a large group of Zerg to om nom nom, then I'm going to believe that yeah, that star thing is going to happen.
Quote:
Which of those two is easier to do for most people?
Depends upon the person.
Quote:
Not really. The prophecy says "It will end in utter darkness", that is all.
No..
It shows a freaky star thing happening too, visually, while the Preservers are speaking the prophecy.
Quote:
It changes what was supposed to be taken for granted at the time and how you think about a certain character and what they did. That's a big deal when trying for consistent world-building.
Again, I disagree about it being taken for granted.
As for Star Wars?
The Prequels just didn't happen.
They didn't.
