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Originally Posted by
Turalyon
Yes, it is still a jump in logic when all your evidence for its existence comes after the fact/ due to hindsight bias. The problem with this is that it sets a precedent that other things about their history may not be concrete as well.
Well, agree to disagree I suppose.
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Being compatible does not mean being part of the same thing or that they were always interchangeable. Terran psionics are only compatible with Zerg psionics because the conceit is that the Zerg force/make foreign things to be a part of them. The thing they force into the Swarm is inherently different, something they lack and potentially has a benefit to them. If it wasn't, they could just tinker with their own psionic genes to produce the psionics they wanted without bothering to assimilate the Terrans. That the Terrans, being only novices in how their own psionic potential works, is able to elucidate higher order Zerg psionics (which is what the Psi Disruptor disruptes) that are totally different from their own without even having a cerebrate (the Zerg main force was yet to reach the K sector at the time of these purported Confederate studies) to study stretches the already thin laws of that universe.
By Uprising, they were already in the Korpulu Sector for the past fifteen years and had infested mutliple planets.
Whether they had access to just Overlords or not, is unknown.
And again, why are we debating something they have done?
They did it, so its canon, so no point arguing it, right?
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In WoL though I didn't make myself clearer enough the first time. The Overmind's plan and all actions leading up to it wasn't to assimilate the Protoss and to absorb their powerful abilities as its end goal but to outright kill them all. This guff about there being two Overminds with the original wanting to assimilate the Protoss and the Directive one wanting to kill the Protoss is an unnecessary complication that just confuses things and turns the entirety of the Overmind character into nothing more but an overwrought plot device.
Again, where is the direct quote that states the Overmind wanted to kill the Protoss?
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What, so this is your definitive proof that the missiles can't somehow also be only able to fly at under FTL speeds or at light speed itself but somehow definitely faster? It's all assumption. Either way, this is all getting beside the point since I believe the EU has retconned this event into having battlecruisers in orbit firing the missiles on Korhal instead of being directly fired from Tarsonis. Maybe it was due to this particular issue of expecting Terrans to have FTL ballistic weaponry would make them over-powered whilst simultaneously seeing no evidence of their use anywhere else in the game when it should be expected of being so.
The two incidents are at odds with each other, and since there is no canon hiearchy, both are valid views.
It says these nukes were fired at Korhal from Tarsonis. They were fired from Tarsonis. This isn't an assumption. This isn't a guess. This is a fact. They were launched to Korhal from Tarsonis. So, they have to have their own Warp Space engines, just like Dropships have them, and they can be fired from another planet to another planet. It doesn't say they were fired from Battlecruisers in orbit above Korhal, that Uprising states.
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So I can safely disregard the news reports and all that they say in WoL because it is obvious that they're really only there to invoke humour? Hawki will disagree with you.
None of WoL news reports, except for the lemon juice allergy, was a joke, so no, You can't.
Billions died, the Queen of Blade spreads, and Mengsk made an idiot of himself on the news.
[quote]Nice obscure reference that is next to irrelevant since it's never seen in-game or referenced anywhere else.[/qutote]
Does't have to be references elsewhere.
The Terrans have according to the lore and do use them, and apparently it gives them no advantage over the Zerg and Protoss.
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One would expect widespread use of FTL ballistics if it was capable because of it's huge tactical advantage.
According to LC, their normal space weapons are already FTL or going at high percentages of light speed due to how they cross an AU quickly.
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Fat lot of use these will do on something flying FTL. At that speed, you'd be better off (and cheaper given the expected exhorbitant cost of crafting an FTL drive for a missile) using a mindless missile rather than create a guidance package that will need to also work at and within FTL speeds. Also there is the expectation that for PD to be effective against such a thing would somehow have to a) fire b) predict the timing of when the FTL missile breaks out of FTL to deliver its payload and c) reach it before the missile hits.
Uh, wrong.
They are FTL yes, bu they aren't FTL in real space. They are probably using the most common FTL system which is Warp Space.
So the nukes travel through their rift and eject out of it going at normal missile speeds.
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Huh? The Ghost is guiding the nuke - therefore ECM should be a problem.
Ghosts are guiding the nuke, yes. Depending upon how this system works, it can be away to get past ECM, because the nuke is going by preset coordinates and is not using any on board sensors that could be fooled with from an external source.
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Also, are we to expect the missiles that Ghost direct are FTL?
No, you misunderstand.
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If not, how come PD is not known in the lore to be effective against such a tactic?
Well, we've never seen a nuke fired at a really defended position before. So we don't know.
We just know that Apoc nukes don't let Terrans instantly win.
We only see nuclear blasts on char from orbit when your on the space station.
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A FTL nuke could still possibly dig out those Zerg by "phasing" through before detonating.
Again, FTL through Warp Space. Not RealSpace.
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Yes, but that's how you're defending their presence. You're saying their justified because of this obscure reference on this map or this one quote in a book. All that is saying to the not-so-hardcore fans is that "if you don't get it, it's your fault for not knowing this mindless minutiae".
Fair point.
I'll just be very clear then.
Starcraft is a science fiction.
Blizzard doesn't care about realism or consistency.
As such, their factions can do whatever the hell they want based on plot.
Does this mean some things are asspulls?
Yes. They are quite alot of asspulls?
Does this affect the quality of the story?
Yes, Yes it does.
Does this mean that hardcore fans will dislike it alot?
No. No it doesn't.
Because...I don't really care about the asspulls.
I played Starcraft since I was Four, so I don't care about it raping the laws of physics with a dirty shovel.
I'm sorry, but I just don't.
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Blizzard has been doing a terrible job of this so far. That's where all the confusion is coming from.
Blizzard doesn't care about consistency.
That's one of the big problems.
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Originally Posted by
FanaticTemplar
Many of your arguments do nothing to address the notion that Terrans would be using sensor arrays throughout Terran space to relay information to them.
That assumes they are using relays. There are no mentions of them, and that would be an assumption you would have to prove. You know, with lore.
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Korhal was a Core World, so why wouldn't Umoja have a spy satellite nearby?
The Spy Deck, again, mentions nothing about relays.
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Originally Posted by Starcraft Uprising
The Council also allowed Mengsk to use
the Protectorate as a base of operations, and to use the
Spy Deck as a somewhat archaic means of surveillance.
The imaging program contained detailed charts of all the
planets within the known systems. It was also capable of
charting the progress of freight ships carrying their valuable
cargo through the trade routes in real-time—a
primitive kind of “radar” system to be sure, but more
than adequate for Arcturus’s needs. It was here on the
Spy Deck that the Ruling Council of the Umojan
Proctectorate stood, their haggard faces revealing collective
concern.
It does so, directly.
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Same with the Confederacy spotting Tassadar's fleet in the Sara System.
Again, assumes they are using relays.
The Norad picks them up on their sensors.
And the Protoss does the same, with their sensors.
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Same with your reference to the Zerg and Protoss watching the Terrans before StarCraft - the Protoss are stated to 'routinely patrol' Terran space, and in one of those patrols they caught a Zerg deep-space probe. In either case, this is evidence that they needed to have someone/something within Terran space to transmit the information back to Aiur/the Overmind.
Given that two Protoss can touch hands, have a seance, and pop over a message from one planet to another through mind!powers!, they don't need realys.
And the Zerg are connected via FTL with their organisms. Every single part of the hive mind alerts the rest with their knowledge.
Just poking a piece of Creep alerts the Zerg everywhere to your presence.
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The issue here is the way sensors work - they are inherently receivers. There is no problem with the notion that the Terrans can transmit information through warp space, or that they can intercept information coming from warp space. The problem is that your hypothetical sensors involve using warp space to "reach out" and gather information from distant places. The closest thing I can think of that would make sense with this is some kind of warp radar. But that would involve sending out something through warp space, to then exit warp space to bounce off something in real space, then go back into warp space to travel back to the point of origin. That sounds patently ridiculous.
That's what happpens.
Maybe they use particles that travel FTL through realspace?
Don't know.
Just know that alot of these platforms can pick up as radars at FTL speeds.
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Now the notion that the UED sent deep space probes throughout the galaxy and these are what have been transmitting the information from the Koprulu Sector back to Earth is the most reasonable justification I've heard on this issue. However, there are a few problems with it. For one thing, it contradicts what we are told about the UED's source of information, which is that they were recording the Terran's every move since their exile from Earth. For another, they would have known about the Protoss and Zerg long before the Terrans, since Aiur, at least, is also in the galaxy (this entire notion makes the plot point about 'the secret location of Aiur' pretty incomprehensible too, if it were true).
The UED watched the entire battle with the Overmind.
I doubt deep space probes were the reason for it.
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Also, why did they have to attack Braxis to 'ascertain the location of the Dylarian Shipyards'?
...No clue / inconsistent fluff.
