zerus

Well the campaign in general I like the Zerus unfortunately aback and felt the least impact. Well now let go any assumptions to receive info on those primal zerg

1. - The vegetation is not plant, are zerglife forms, polyps type
2. - The Primal zerg changed, Zerus appeared in a purely volcanic planet to a jungle planet
3. - Zurvan was actually something like the tree of the Navi in ;Avatar, with its roots stretching out across the planet (the roots can be see in Kerrigan/zurvan fight), so "plants" (or part) were extesions of Zurvan
4. - Certainly as Kerrigan communicates with primal zerg, are psychic? or she communicate with other member of the swarm, the primal zerg thoughts

I was okay with Zerus having become a forest world. There's a parallel between the Zerg homeworld and Aiur. But besides that, if we assume that Zerus at some point used to be volcanic, then it implies that the zerg may have had some hand in spreading life across its surface. Though I cannot say they really helped diversify it, since I'm pretty sure most, if not all, Zerus life is Zerg or Zerg-derived.

Looking at some of the fauna, no. Spore rays, crab beetles, quillgores, the artislope (sp?)...it's clear that in HotS (like the original manual) there are/were numerous lifeforms. And looking at its orbital image, it looks like there's still volcanism. Which kind of makes sense - some of the most fertile areas in the world are at volcanic sites.

Of course, how Zerus went from being a "lifeless rock" to a jungle world in the span of a short centuries is anyone's guess. And didn't the xel'naga observe that the zerg had assimilated/erradicated all native life? And...

Retcon? What's that?:(

did you read the tooltips for each of the "critters" on zerus?
they are all zerg lifeforms
and the zerg left Zerus millenia ago

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Originally Posted by Hawki

Of course, how Zerus went from being a "lifeless rock" to a jungle world in the span of a short centuries is anyone's guess. And didn't the xel'naga observe that the zerg had assimilated/erradicated all native life? And...

Retcon? What's that?:(

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"Retcon" is becoming too kind of a word for what we're seeing with all this changeable Zerg history. "Hand wave" is a more appropriate and depressingly truthful description.

The Zerg history can be spun such that Zerus was only deemed a "lifeless rock" because the Overmind said it was at the time (and we now know how it was lying all along since WoL's revelations, right?) and that um... the Primal Zerg are pretty godly and can terraform because they're so noble and "Warcraft orc-like" in their attunement to nature and all.

As to the Xel'Naga observing all native life being eradicated on Zerus, well, that happened to be Amon (who is technically a XelNage, fallen or no) making an incorrect assumption to mislead us while we read the SC1 manual so that when it was revealed later to not be the case it HotS, it would be a wonderful surprise! Also, in HotS all native life on Zerus is technically Zerg (Primal - whatever that's supposed to mean) even if they were not part of the Overmind's Swarm so that in actuality, all other native life has been assimilated or eradicated.

There we go, some ready made explanations. I wonder why people are so unhappy...

I wouldn't call it a hand wave. A hand wave is where an explanation is provided, if only briefly. A retcon is complete revision of history.

I can't speak for everyone, but it's the lack of a handwave that irks me. I don't mind going to Zerus. I like the concept of the primal zerg. But in transport time, even if the storywriters chose not to use already existing tech the zerg could use (xel'naga worldships, warp gates, you could easily use both), you could easily mention in dialogue "leviathans are the fastest zerg organisms in FTL travel" or "the Overmind had to move a much larger Swarm through warp space, it therefore took them longer." I can't think of a handwave for the revegetation but you could at least mention it.

Meh. I dunno. It's not really something I'd call myself "upset" about. Travel times diminish in accordance with plot in numerous sci-fi settings, HotS is just another example. I guess what irritates me is the lack of any attempt to address it.

Fine, an implicit handwave then. Sc2's story is supposedly loaded with hidden explanations, right? Take your pick or make one up, there's enough in SC to "pretend" there's a reason - that's what I did in my previous post. I'm kind of used to making up excuses for all the inanity that is SC lore now - not that I care much for it at any rate. For example, Zeratul somehow knowing intimately about where the Zerg originally came from and the concept of Primal Zerg in order to direct Kerrigan on her path? Well, he got it from the Overmind when he killed Zasz but didn't tell anyone at the time until it was right or maybe he had a longer chat with "Tassamind" than what we actually saw in WoL and was given the low-down about how to defeat Amon. No worries, right?

Besides, there are lot of things they didn't address in WoL which you seem able to accept such as the "4 years has passed and anything could change in that time" explanation. Sure, Zerus was a "lifeless rock" but only at that one time only - there was nothing about it being a "lifeless rock" forever. The Leviathan is obviously the quickest thing in the universe because it got to Zerus and back in no time - isn't that explanation enough? I could go on but then I'd be accused of trolling (sadly, it may seem like I'm doing this but I'm actually not!). At the least, HotS is consistent in its "moving the goalposts in order to suit your current stories needs" style momentum of Sc2 intact.

Zerus' transformation from volcanic world to jungle world doesn't especially bother me. Without a clear idea of the time difference between the Xel'Naga arriving on Zerus and Kerrigan's arrival on Zerus, I have no problem with the notion that the planet developed. After all, Earth could have been called a volcanic planet if we go far enough into the past. In fact, I like that it detracts a bit from the typical one planet, one terrain thing we have going around.

Of course, then we have to wonder what the odds of the primal spawning pool surviving all this time are.

Yes, portions of Zerus remain volcanically active.

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Of course, then we have to wonder what the odds of the primal spawning pool surviving all this time are.

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Considering that the constant evolution of Primals on Zerus has led to more powerful strains, I wonder how it is that this primordial spawning pool somehow retains something that's apparently been lost by the rest of the Zerg species -- both species.

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Besides, there are lot of things they didn't address in WoL which you seem able to accept such as the "4 years has passed and anything could change in that time" explanation. Sure, Zerus was a "lifeless rock" but only at that one time only - there was nothing about it being a "lifeless rock" forever. The Leviathan is obviously the quickest thing in the universe because it got to Zerus and back in no time - isn't that explanation enough? I could go on but then I'd be accused of trolling (sadly, it may seem like I'm doing this but I'm actually not!). At the least, HotS is consistent in its "moving the goalposts in order to suit your current stories needs" style momentum of Sc2 intact.

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Is it ever mentioned how far away zerus is from aiur or the K-sector or whatever?

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After all, Earth could have been called a volcanic planet if we go far enough into the past.

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Millions, if not billions of years (I think most land was created 1 billion or 3 billion years ago? The earth itself, including crust/core/mantle/etc., is about 5 billion years old). Look up geographic eras, I believe (we're in the cenozoic era which covers right now and the past 40,000 years, I think; meaning no change whatsoever, aside from humans).

So yeah, 2000 years for zerus to go from lifeless to vegetation? It may be only slightly more reasonable if the vegetation is 'minor' - ie. moss/lichen etc. Whatever the first vegetation on earth was, it hadn't evolved yet (zerus vegetation certainly shouldn't have time to evolve). I think flowers are the youngest vegetation - meaning lots of evolution is needed before flowers start sprouting.

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Originally Posted by solidsamurai

Is it ever mentioned how far away zerus is from aiur or the K-sector or whatever?

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I've seen the figure of 5000 light years used on these forums, but the only reference I can find is in the original manual, which lists the distance just as "thousands."

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Originally Posted by solidsamurai

So yeah, 2000 years for zerus to go from lifeless to vegetation? It may be only slightly more reasonable if the vegetation is 'minor' - ie. moss/lichen etc. Whatever the first vegetation on earth was, it hadn't evolved yet (zerus vegetation certainly shouldn't have time to evolve). I think flowers are the youngest vegetation - meaning lots of evolution is needed before flowers start sprouting.

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Honestly, at this point, I can only conclude it's a retcon or, if you want to split hairs, call the original manual text hyperbole (Zerus heavily damaged but not to the point of really being lifeless). Travel times I can wriggle around, and since HotS extends well into 2505, one can conjecture that most of that time was spent getting to Zerus and back. Vegetation though...um, the spawning pool did it?:confused:

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Originally Posted by Hawki

Honestly, at this point, I can only conclude it's a retcon or, if you want to split hairs, call the original manual text hyperbole (Zerus heavily damaged but not to the point of really being lifeless). Travel times I can wriggle around, and since HotS extends well into 2505, one can conjecture that most of that time was spent getting to Zerus and back. Vegetation though...um, the spawning pool did it?:confused:

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The Primal Zerg did it. We didn't know they were there before and now that we do, that's explanation enough for Zerus's change (not to mention that if 4 years is enough for things to improve vastly in the K sector, consider what would could happen in 2000 years with an ancient and highly intelligent race that harness the almighty power of DNA/essence!). It's like the Overmind being a slave "retcon", we didn't know there was a DV/Amon back then and now that we do, that's explanation enough apparently.

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I've seen the figure of 5000 light years used on these forums, but the only reference I can find is in the original manual, which lists the distance just as "thousands."

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So if it took the ATLAS 70 years to travel 60,000 light years, then how long did it take the overmind to reach the k-sector? Actually, it's possible they drifted around for 10,000 years (or however long since the xel'naga went extinct), since they couldn't have known where to go at first.

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Originally Posted by Turalyon

The Primal Zerg did it. We didn't know they were there before and now that we do, that's explanation enough for Zerus's change (not to mention that if 4 years is enough for things to improve vastly in the K sector, consider what would could happen in 2000 years with an ancient and highly intelligent race that harness the almighty power of DNA/essence!). It's like the Overmind being a slave "retcon", we didn't know there was a DV/Amon back then and now that we do, that's explanation enough apparently.

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Lolol, I'm glad my boycott of this game was worth while. If I want story, I can easily watch jessecox LP it and savor the cheese.

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Originally Posted by solidsamurai

So yeah, 2000 years for zerus to go from lifeless to vegetation?

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Originally Posted by FanaticTemplar

Without a clear idea of the time difference between the Xel'Naga arriving on Zerus and Kerrigan's arrival on Zerus,

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Why must you ruin things for me? Can't you see how much I long for the cocoon of canonically disapproved history of the StarCraft setting? If I'd wanted to know how long the history of the Zerg was in new reckoning I would have looked it up on the wiki. I was deliberately trying to remain ignorant of the subject since a good background should include mystery and Blizzard is doing their best to answer every question they could ever have possibly asked.

Merciful Adun. The entire history of the Zerg species is only two thousand years?

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Originally Posted by solidsamurai

So if it took the ATLAS 70 years to travel 60,000 light years,

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28 years.

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Originally Posted by solidsamurai

then how long did it take the overmind to reach the k-sector?

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At least centuries.

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Originally Posted by solidsamurai

since they couldn't have known where to go at first.

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They had an idea of the general direction.

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Originally Posted by FanaticTemplar

Why must you ruin things for me? Can't you see how much I long for the cocoon of canonically disapproved history of the StarCraft setting? If I'd wanted to know how long the history of the Zerg was in new reckoning I would have looked it up on the wiki.

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I don't know why you're quoting yourself, but I don't know where the 2000 figure came from. We know that's the minimum age of the Overmind and Zurvan, that's all. And even if it had been in the game, what then? Cover your ears?

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Originally Posted by FanaticTemplar

I was deliberately trying to remain ignorant of the subject

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...

...

Rosebud is the sled.

Soylent green is people.

It was Earth all along.

Bruce Willis is dead.

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Originally Posted by FanaticTemplar

a good background should include mystery and Blizzard is doing their best to answer every question they could ever have possibly asked.

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Welcome to worldbuilding.

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Originally Posted by FanaticTemplar

Merciful Adun. The entire history of the Zerg species is only two thousand years?

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No, it isn't. It's much longer. I can give you some absolute dates for protoss history if you want though.:p

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Originally Posted by solidsamurai

Actually, it's possible they drifted around for 10,000 years (or however long since the xel'naga went extinct), since they couldn't have known where to go at first.

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This is an interesting bit of trivia. One would think the Overmind knew the general direction of where the Protoss were especially considering that Amon would've had knowledge of this and likely would've told them where to go. So why did the Zerg take so long to find the Protoss? Not much of a directive (or a good plan on the part of Amon) if it's so lax in allowing the Overmind to make a detour around the whole universe under the pretense of "Oh, but I'm still looking for the Protoss and gathering strength and such".

Maybe when the Zerg only found the Protoss after they absorbed the DNA to produce Leviathans. Afterall, they can warp to Zerus is no time it seems.

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Originally Posted by solidsamurai

Lolol, I'm glad my boycott of this game was worth while. If I want story, I can easily watch jessecox LP it and savor the cheese.

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As long as you accept that Sc2 works on overt fridge logic and go into it with a sense of cynicisim, you too can savour the cheese!

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Originally Posted by FanaticTemplar

Why must you ruin things for me? Can't you see how much I long for the cocoon of canonically disapproved history of the StarCraft setting? If I'd wanted to know how long the history of the Zerg was in new reckoning I would have looked it up on the wiki. I was deliberately trying to remain ignorant of the subject since a good background should include mystery and Blizzard is doing their best to answer every question they could ever have possibly asked.

Merciful Adun. The entire history of the Zerg species is only two thousand years?

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Good grief, a Protoss lover going off the rails about all these Zerg revelations. Think about how it would affect the actual Zerg lovers (me)!

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Originally Posted by Turalyon

Good grief, a Protoss lover going off the rails about all these Zerg revelations.

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Yes, because knowledge = bad. It's protoss lover logic I guess.

Maybe it's a species thing. We terran lovers prefer to seek out every scrap of info we can get.:p

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Maybe it's a species thing. We terran lovers prefer to seek out every scrap of info we can get.:p

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I agree. Being human does that to you.

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Originally Posted by Hawki

And even if it had been in the game, what then? Cover your ears?

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Of course. What else can you do in the face of blatant contradiction? Was Zeratul 634 years old at the time of Brood War, or had he served Raszagal for many millennia? You've got to choose which is true and "cover your ears" to the other. It's all fiction anyway, so there's no objective truth. Everything you know today could be made to be entirely wrong tomorrow at Blizzard's whim. This is what comes of eschewing consistency in your setting. We know Blizzard will change the canon if they ever feel like it, so why would you expect me to adhere to it, especially when it detracts from the breadth of the universe and/or is stupid?

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Originally Posted by Hawki

Welcome to worldbuilding.

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This is not worldbuilding. Well, its is, of course, but in the same way that The Eye of Argon counts as storytelling. Worldbuilding is about enriching a coherent setting and backstory. This impoverishes both, and detracts from the setting's coherency. Worldbuilding should add scope and depth to a setting. It should suggest a thousand other stories. This is the opposite - it's closing the door on so many possibilities just to provide us with minutia. It is a narrative dead-end.

A setting is as vast as it needs to be to accommodate all possible answers to the questions it raises. When you provide answers, you are reducing the scope of the setting, because now the full totality of possibilities it needs to accommodate is one - the one you have decreed to be correct. This is how you make a setting smaller by adding to its backstory. Resolution should be for the present.

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Originally Posted by FanaticTemplar

Of course. What else can you do in the face of blatant contradiction?

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Consider both, and make an informed judgement.

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Originally Posted by FanaticTemplar

Was Zeratul 634 years old at the time of Brood War, or had he served Raszagal for many millennia?

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The former. The latter's longer than Raszagal's been alive, and Zeratul's YOB has been repeatedly given as 1865. There's no ambiguity there.

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Originally Posted by FanaticTemplar

You've got to choose which is true and "cover your ears" to the other.

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No, you choose one, and keep the other in mind if it becomes relevant. It's really a case by case basis.

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Originally Posted by FanaticTemplar

We know Blizzard will change the canon if they ever feel like it, so why would you expect me to adhere to it, especially when it detracts from the breadth of the universe and/or is stupid?

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Facts are still facts at the end of the day. You can dislike them all you want, and in some cases, you can ignore them. Fanfiction for instance, with AU/AR stories (that I refuse to write for the former but am willing to do so for the latter may tell you a lot). In a forum however, there's less of a mandate. If my argument is x, and your counter argument is "I don't accept your supporting material," then there's no conversation to be had. The only time when it becomes iffy is if there's debate as to whether it's a retcon or inconsistancy.

A equivalent of a canon fact I dislike is that the kalathi were revealed to be knocked back to the stone age in the Kalath Intercession. I don't like the fact, as I feel it closes the door on them ever being brought into the setting in a meaningful way. But I still have to accept it. In the StarCraft III thread I created, I didn't argue that the kalathi should be a fourth race, saying "let's ignore the stone age bit but accepting everything else." And there's a reason I no longer stir up the old timeline debate. It's been done. It's over.

Ideally a setting should minimize retcons/inconsistancies, but they'll still happen. Ignoring problems doesn't solve them. I have to bear them in StarCraft like every other setting that has them over time.

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Originally Posted by FanaticTemplar

Worldbuilding is about enriching a coherent setting and backstory. This impoverishes both, and detracts from the setting's coherency.

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Looking back, I'm not sure what "it" is. Is it the 2000 years figure, which is wrong? Is it the primal zerg, which I could argue does enrich the setting and backstory. Or the travel time to Zerus, which I feel increases inconsistancy?

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Originally Posted by FanaticTemplar

Worldbuilding should add scope and depth to a setting. It should suggest a thousand other stories.

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Yes to the first, no to the second. Worldbuilding can provide the means to make stories, but should not arbitrarily "suggest them." If stories are suggested post ending, then it takes away from the sense of closure.

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Originally Posted by FanaticTemplar

A setting is as vast as it needs to be to accommodate all possible answers to the questions it raises. When you provide answers, you are reducing the scope of the setting,

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And when you don't provide answers you're denying a sense of narrative closure, and other types as well depending on the situation (e.g. emotional). For example, the series has been teasing at bona fide species other than the "big three" for fifteen years, and we've never actually seen one. We've never seen a tagal or kalathi, the elder races might as well not exist, the tribal aliens have probably been forgotten about, and the chances of the space vampire concept being revived into something fitting of the setting are between slim and nil. But no, it's "good worldbuilding" to never actually answer questions, just raise more and more. Least with SC2 we're getting answers to the hybrids and xel'naga. Are you saying it would be better if we never actually learned anything, that the threads were still left dangling?

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Originally Posted by FanaticTemplar

This is how you make a setting smaller by adding to its backstory.

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Define "smaller." Worldbuilding by definition makes a setting larger, as in, more content, the 'mass' increases, etc. If you're arguing "smaller" as in actual size though, then yes - there's a big jump to Zerus and Earth, but it still conforms to the principle of making a galaxy larger over time. Star Trek ended with every quadrant known about in some form or another, as opposed to the 1/2 we started out with. It isn't good worldbuilding to not expand something over time, especially when you're steadily providing the means for it (better warp drives and all that).

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Originally Posted by FanaticTemplar

Resolution should be for the present.

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Um, as opposed to the past? The future? Last I checked, we could only carry out actions in the present. Unless you're Q. He trolls the laws of physics like that.:p

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Originally Posted by Hawki

The former. The latter's longer than Raszagal's been alive, and Zeratul's YOB has been repeatedly given as 1865. There's no ambiguity there.

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And yet: Matriarch, I have served you for many millennia. I have always valued your wisdom and strength. From the last mission of The Stand.

So, what do you do? Cover your ears?

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Originally Posted by Hawki

Facts are still facts at the end of the day. You can dislike them all you want, and in some cases, you can ignore them.

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Wait, you can? What are you arguing about, then?

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Originally Posted by Hawki

Looking back, I'm not sure what "it" is. Is it the 2000 years figure, which is wrong?

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Just so. At this point, I feel the need to point out that you're the one who had a problem with my post, not the other way 'round. It's kind of strange for you to get upset at me for not desiring to learn about the timeframe of the Zerg's history when you clearly have no problem arguing with me without learning what it was you were objecting to.

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Originally Posted by Hawki

Yes to the first, no to the second. Worldbuilding can provide the means to make stories, but should not arbitrarily "suggest them." If stories are suggested post ending, then it takes away from the sense of closure.

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Not a fan of Dark Origins then? How about the original StarCraft ending on the note that Kerrigan knew that the time of her ascension had arrived? But that's fine. I wasn't talking about deriving from the main storyline, I was talking about worldbuilding. And setting backstory. WIthout the suggestion of other stories, then your story doesn't have a setting it exists in a vacuum. A setting is by nature intended to be a place where the story happens in. By that definition it must be larger than the story. There must be other things that happen in it but your story.

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Originally Posted by Hawki

And when you don't provide answers you're denying a sense of narrative closure, and other types as well depending on the situation (e.g. emotional). For example, the series has been teasing at bona fide species other than the "big three" for fifteen years, and we've never actually seen one. We've never seen a tagal or kalathi, the elder races might as well not exist, the tribal aliens have probably been forgotten about, and the chances of the space vampire concept being revived into something fitting of the setting are between slim and nil. But no, it's "good worldbuilding" to never actually answer questions, just raise more and more. Least with SC2 we're getting answers to the hybrids and xel'naga. Are you saying it would be better if we never actually learned anything, that the threads were still left dangling?

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A lot of questions about the Xel'Naga would have been better left unanswered, yes. But it's not that questions can't be answered. It's that answering questions shouldn't be the aim, and answers should provide new questions. Events that happened in the past are every bit as complex as they are today, everything that happened then, as it does now, did so due to multiple causes. Detailing past events should bring attention to the depth of the setting's backstory. If all it does is provide answers, then it is merely shutting down avenues of inspiration until either your backstory has been exhausted and you have no ideas left to draw upon, or you are forced to retcon your own backstory continually because you didn't leave yourself anything to work with.

The Hybrids aren't part of the backstory though. They're part of the present story. They draw upon those events of the past to bring us new stories.

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Originally Posted by Hawki

Define "smaller." Worldbuilding by definition makes a setting larger, as in, more content, the 'mass' increases, etc. If you're arguing "smaller" as in actual size though, then yes - there's a big jump to Zerus and Earth, but it still conforms to the principle of making a galaxy larger over time. Star Trek ended with every quadrant known about in some form or another, as opposed to the 1/2 we started out with. It isn't good worldbuilding to not expand something over time, especially when you're steadily providing the means for it (better warp drives and all that).

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Smaller as in the the number of stories that can be told in the setting. Smaller as in the depth and complexity of the setting. As I previously explained, a situation unresolved allows for many possibilities. The setting is vast because it can accommodate all these possibilities. A situation resolved allows for only one possibility. The world is small, because it only needs to satisfy the one.

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Originally Posted by Hawki

Um, as opposed to the past? The future? Last I checked, we could only carry out actions in the present. Unless you're Q. He trolls the laws of physics like that.:p

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As opposed to the past, yes. This is precisely what we are discussing. Prime example: who were the Xel'Naga? Why did they want to create the perfect beings? These questions were unresolved back in StarCraft, and yet they now are. And still it is the past.

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Originally Posted by FanaticTemplar

And yet: Matriarch, I have served you for many millennia. I have always valued your wisdom and strength. From the last mission of The Stand.

So, what do you do? Cover your ears?

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No, I consider both. Common sense dictates it can't be millennia, but even throwing that aside, Zeratul's date has been established time and time again. It's the same reason why I no longer debate on the timeline when it was compressed.

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Originally Posted by FanaticTemplar

Wait, you can? What are you arguing about, then?

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"You can" as in, on the personal/individual level. People will decide what's canon and what isn't if they want - it's what the concept of headcanon is. They're entitled to do that, and can do so creatively if they want - write, draw, film, etc. But when it comes to facts, well, facts are facts. Again with the kalathi - I don't like the fact that they were knocked back to the stone age. I can hypothetically create headcanon where they aren't. But I have no valid argument in saying "ignore this fact" if I was arguing for their inclusion for instance.

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Originally Posted by FanaticTemplar

Not a fan of Dark Origins then? How about the original StarCraft ending on the note that Kerrigan knew that the time of her ascension had arrived?

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I was more referring to an ending, as in, the ending of an entire series. You can argue the pros and cons of sequel bait, but if an entire series is ending, I'd like to get some closure.

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Originally Posted by FanaticTemplar

A lot of questions about the Xel'Naga would have been better left unanswered, yes. But it's not that questions can't be answered. It's that answering questions shouldn't be the aim, and answers should provide new questions.

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To an extent. But if we're continuously getting more questions then answers, then the level of disatisfaction is liable to grow.

Maybe it can go both ways. Answer too many questions, it's hard to continue. Ask too many questions, and the ending becomes rushed (Lost is an example I've often seen cited of the latter).

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Originally Posted by FanaticTemplar

As opposed to the past, yes. This is precisely what we are discussing. Prime example: who were the Xel'Naga? Why did they want to create the perfect beings? These questions were unresolved back in StarCraft, and yet they now are.

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Except we do know why they wanted to create perfect beings. You may not like the answer, but that doesn't change the fact that the answer exists.

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Originally Posted by Hawki

No, I consider both. Common sense dictates it can't be millennia, but even throwing that aside, Zeratul's date has been established time and time again. It's the same reason why I no longer debate on the timeline when it was compressed.

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So when I ignore something I think is absurd, it's "covering my ears".
When you ignore something you think is absurd, it's "considering both and using common sense."

That just sounds like using semantics to defend your biases to me.

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Originally Posted by Hawki

"You can" as in, on the personal/individual level. People will decide what's canon and what isn't if they want - it's what the concept of headcanon is. They're entitled to do that, and can do so creatively if they want - write, draw, film, etc. But when it comes to facts, well, facts are facts. Again with the kalathi - I don't like the fact that they were knocked back to the stone age. I can hypothetically create headcanon where they aren't. But I have no valid argument in saying "ignore this fact" if I was arguing for their inclusion for instance.

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And have I argued anything like that?

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Originally Posted by Hawki

To an extent. But if we're continuously getting more questions then answers, then the level of disatisfaction is liable to grow.

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Depends. If you get major questions, then you obviously need to answer them, otherwise you're stringing along your audience. But some questions don't require answers. We never needed to know what the Xel'Naga were about, to keep our example. Keep in mind that I am talking about backstory and worldbuilding here, not main narrative.

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Originally Posted by Hawki

Except we do know why they wanted to create perfect beings. You may not like the answer, but that doesn't change the fact that the answer exists.

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Erm... maybe you should reread what you're replying to? Specifically the "now they [the questions] are [resolved]" part?

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Originally Posted by FanaticTemplar

So when I ignore something I think is absurd, it's "covering my ears".
When you ignore something you think is absurd, it's "considering both and using common sense."

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No, I'm not ignoring it, I'm taking it into account and making an informed judgement based on two pieces of information. What I call absurd is along the lines of "don't tell me x, I don't want to know."

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Originally Posted by FanaticTemplar

And have I argued anything like that?

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It comes across as such. Maybe it's not the intent, but it's the impression.

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Originally Posted by FanaticTemplar

We never needed to know what the Xel'Naga were about,

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Same as we never needed to learn about Earth or the UED pre-Brood War.

Course what one wants to learn about and what they don't varies, but the moment the manual said the "greater whole" of the xel'naga were consumed rather than just saying they were wiped out, alarm bells started triggering in my head.

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Originally Posted by Hawki

No, I'm not ignoring it, I'm taking it into account and making an informed judgement based on two pieces of information. What I call absurd is along the lines of "don't tell me x, I don't want to know."

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And I am taking into account the importance, relevance and usefulness the information in question would have and making an informed judgment on the worth of adding it to my existing knowledge. The conclusion is that it is worthless, and therefore I do not need nor want to know about it.

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Originally Posted by Hawki

It comes across as such. Maybe it's not the intent, but it's the impression.

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Nonesense. Not once have I ever suggested that anybody should ignore the current facts in accordance with my opinions or preferences. I said I did not want to know information that was entirely in the domain of minutia and was inevitably going to cause more harm than good. That I would expect anybody else to likewise avoid the information, or ignore it if they ever learned it, is a pure product of your imagination.

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Originally Posted by Hawki

Same as we never needed to learn about Earth or the UED pre-Brood War.

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Precisely.