Halo 4: Forward Unto Dawn

I love halo because most of the stuff we see there is physically possible :D

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Originally Posted by Quirel

Actually, it was a bit of a revelation in that I thought that 343i was moving away from the idea that (X)=(Y) (we are talking about the same (X) and (Y), right? :D) that Bungie established.

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I'll plunge deep into spoiler territory in that X and Y are the Flood and Precursors respectively.

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Originally Posted by Hawki

I'll plunge deep into spoiler territory in that X and Y are the Flood and Precursors respectively.

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Oh.
I thought that X was Humanity, and Y was Forerunners. I was totally off base there.

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Originally Posted by Quirel

Oh.
I thought that X was Humanity, and Y was Forerunners. I was totally off base there.

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Better to be off-base than outside the diamond completely.

(Yeah, this is a brief "vent my spleen" moment at 343 in light of Halo 4. Go figure.)

Have you guys seen the ending yet? How retarded was it? Jesus.

To be honest, I don't care that Cortana ended up dying. I feel that her death was handled respectfully for her character, and even though it's likely that 343i is going to resurrect her in some manner or another, I'd be fine with her staying dead. She went out saving Master Chief, which is, in the end, what she was supposed to do. The real retardation sets in when you realise that Cortana and all of her rampant personality spikes somehow managed to restrain the Didact long enough for Chief to get off his ass and stick him with a Pulse Grenade, AND that he basically took a shit all over a HAVOK nuke and survived the following explosion. Not only did he survive the nuclear detonation, he was completely unharmed, suit-wise, and was able to float through space without suffocating or being crushed by pressure (meaning that his suit was completely fine and didn't have any breaks from a nuclear detonation).

/e

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Originally Posted by Quirel

Actually, it was a bit of a revelation in that I thought that 343i was moving away from the idea that (X)=(Y) (we are talking about the same (X) and (Y), right? :D) that Bungie established.

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Prometheans are ancient humans.

I still need to go buy this. Oi Vei.

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Originally Posted by Pr0ngo

Hidden Content:

To be honest, I don't care that Cortana ended up dying. I feel that her death was handled respectfully for her character, and even though it's likely that 343i is going to resurrect her in some manner or another, I'd be fine with her staying dead. She went out saving Master Chief, which is, in the end, what she was supposed to do. The real retardation sets in when you realise that Cortana and all of her rampant personality spikes somehow managed to restrain the Didact long enough for Chief to get off his ass and stick him with a Pulse Grenade, AND that he basically took a shit all over a HAVOK nuke and survived the following explosion. Not only did he survive the nuclear detonation, he was completely unharmed, suit-wise, and was able to float through space without suffocating or being crushed by pressure (meaning that his suit was completely fine and didn't have any breaks from a nuclear detonation).

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Meh, didn't really have a problem with the ending. It's soured by the knowledge that (spoiler) will almost certainly return, but by this stage in the game, we've had our share of idiosyncracies. What's one more going to do?:(

Who do you mean by (spoiler)? Cortana or the Didact? I think they're both going to, considering we hear the latter's voice in the epilogue and the other one is basically a given.

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Originally Posted by Hawki

Better to be off-base than outside the diamond completely.

(Yeah, this is a brief "vent my spleen" moment at 343 in light of Halo 4. Go figure.)

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"You know what Halo has always needed? Quicktime Events! More on-the-rails sections! A villain that is the unholy offspring of Voldemort and Shinzon!"

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Originally Posted by Pr0nogo

Have you guys seen the ending yet? How retarded was it? Jesus.

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Originally Posted by IGN

"It all started with this one scene," Frank O'Conner, Franchise Director at 343i explained. "We had this really cool scene in mind, but we couldn't really get it to stick. You can drop the Chief from orbit, you can make him run through a Flood-infested labyrinth, and he'd come out alright. But what we had in mind? Not to get too spoilery, but we didn't have a fridge for him to take cover in."

"You should have seen the looks on our faces when an intern finally came up with a way out. Hardlight."

You've seen Hardlight before, right in the first game. Despite what it's humble appearance may indicate, Hardlight is actually one of the foundational aspects of Forerunner technology.

"Don't let appearances fool you," Kevin Grace, Franchise Manager at 343 Industries piped in. "The Forerunner aren't limited to simple geometric shapes. And those massive projectors? Just for show. Cortana could have surrounded the Chief in a skin-tight (well, armor-tight, ya know?) shell of Hardlight, strong enough to survive a point blank nuclear explosion, in the few nanoseconds it takes to detonate a nuke."

"Yeah. That was spoilery, wasn't it? Eh, just print it after we release Halo 4."

Well, once news got around of our Hardlight solution, other departments realized that it was a solution to their problems as well. Among them were the gameplay people, headed by Jesse Snyder.

"Forerunner weapons. How do they work? Well, obviously, they're going to be mechanically identical to the Human weapons, because Forerunner are basically just advanced humans. But they can't shoot bullets, because that's what Human weapons do."

The answer was Hardlight. Hardlight bullets for the Forerunner battle rifle, bouncy hardlight bullets for the break-open shotgun, and balls of hardlight that convert enemies into raw hardlight on impact.

"We had to show ranks within the Promethean enemies. Using different colors was what Bungie would have done, but it's a pretty hokey way to do it. So, we went with Hardlight spikes and Hardlight skulls under those helmets, exactly the sort of thing you'd expect a civilized race to have."

"The real gamechanger was applying the Hardlight to an armor ability. Players have wanted to pick up Jackal energy shields since the first game. We were looking at that as a way to replace Armor Lock, but it wasn't exactly OUR way of doing things. If we had more time, we probably would have redesigned the JES entirely, but we devoted those resources towards the Hardlight Shield."

"It's not very durable, because you're using Hardlight to emulate energy shields. And an Energy Sword will go right through it because it's made of razor-sharp Hardlight."

"Storywise," Frank O'Conner stated. "We're very lucky to be working in a universe with a powerful force like Hardlight, because it opens up so many opportunities. We were in a bind because the Didact's personality, demeanor, even his appearance was different from the way he was in Greg Bear's books. Then someone who worked on the Metroid Prime series suggested Hardlight corruption. He's pure evil now, more evil than the Covenant have ever been, and he's got new powers from the Hardlight corruption."

The new powers are readily apparent when you first meet the Didact, where he throws the Chief around with the power of his mind. Telekinesis? Nope. He has subliminal control of Ultraviolet Hardlight. Same as the other stuff, just invisible.

"Of course, he's not the only one with Hardlight powers. The Librarian, who some fans might almost recognize from the terminals, does some funky stuff to the Chief with precise use of Hardlight. And then there's the composer. Frankly, Tron ain't got nothing on us. Can you say 'Digitized Hardlight'?"

Astute Halo fans might surmise that the Master Chief's new armor, decidedly different from the iconic Mark VI, might have origins in Hardlight. Surprisingly, this is not the case.

"We thought about it," O'Conner said with a twinkle in his eye. "That'd be totally cool, right? But his armor is actually Mark VI, just like the previous games. It's definitely changed, but having Hardlight as the cause just didn't seem realistic."

"So, the official explanation is that Cortana modified the suit with nanotechnology."

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If that had been explained in the fucking epilogue, maybe I'd be a bit more tolerant and understanding.:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Pr0ngo

Who do you mean by (spoiler)? Cortana or the Didact? I think they're both going to, considering we hear the latter's voice in the epilogue and the other one is basically a given.

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Both, actually, come to think of it.

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Originally Posted by Quirel

"You know what Halo has always needed? Quicktime Events!

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Calling the Didact battle a “quicktime event” is an insult to quicktime events in general.

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Originally Posted by Quirel

A villain that is the unholy offspring of Voldemort and Shinzon!"

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That’s giving the Didact too much credit.

But anyway, onto the IGN article…

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Originally Posted by IGN

"It all started with this one scene," Frank O'Conner, Franchise Director at 343i explained. "We had this really cool scene in mind, but we couldn't really get it to stick. You can drop the Chief from orbit, you can make him run through a Flood-infested labyrinth, and he'd come out alright. But what we had in mind? Not to get too spoilery, but we didn't have a fridge for him to take cover in."

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Oh look, a reference to another fourth instalment that failed to live up to its predecessors. There’s probably a metaphor somewhere here…

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Originally Posted by IGN

"You should have seen the looks on our faces when an intern finally came up with a way out. Hardlight."

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Please tell me his/her internship is over.

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Originally Posted by IGN

"Don't let appearances fool you," Kevin Grace, Franchise Manager at 343 Industries piped in. "The Forerunner aren't limited to simple geometric shapes. And those massive projectors? Just for show. Cortana could have surrounded the Chief in a skin-tight (well, armor-tight, ya know?) shell of Hardlight, strong enough to survive a point blank nuclear explosion, in the few nanoseconds it takes to detonate a nuke."

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Did the Forerunners ever use it? I mean, I don’t mind the shield thing in itself believe it or not, but it sounds a bit much like plot convenience when phrased like that.

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Originally Posted by IGN

"Forerunner weapons. How do they work? Well, obviously, they're going to be mechanically identical to the Human weapons,

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Why?

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Originally Posted by IGN

because Forerunner are basically just advanced humans.

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…you’re an idiot.

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Originally Posted by IGN

But they can't shoot bullets, because that's what Human weapons do."

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The Spartan Laser wants a word.

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Originally Posted by IGN

The answer was Hardlight. Hardlight bullets for the Forerunner battle rifle,

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There was a Forerunner battle rifle? Missed it. Maybe they’re getting mixed up in the whole merging of the BR and DMR (another bad choice IMO).

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Originally Posted by IGN

bouncy hardlight bullets for the break-open shotgun,

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Oh right, that shotgun that feels iffy in a lore sense, and is useless in a gameplay one?

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Originally Posted by IGN

and balls of hardlight that convert enemies into raw hardlight on impact.

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Stop saying “hardlight.” You’re giving me a headache. And again, useless weapons.

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Originally Posted by IGN

"We had to show ranks within the Promethean enemies. Using different colors was what Bungie would have done,

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A lot of things were done differently…

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Originally Posted by IGN

but it's a pretty hokey way to do it. So, we went with Hardlight spikes and Hardlight skulls under those helmets, exactly the sort of thing you'd expect a civilized race to have."

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…no you wouldn’t.

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Originally Posted by IGN

"Storywise," Frank O'Conner stated. "We're very lucky to be working in a universe with a powerful force like Hardlight, because it opens up so many opportunities. We were in a bind because the Didact's personality, demeanor, even his appearance was different from the way he was in Greg Bear's books.

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So, er, you didn’t think of trying to ensure the personalities would match up? Or is the Didact here the Ur-Didact while Bornstellar-Didact is the ‘good’ one, and the one from the H3 terminals?

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Originally Posted by IGN

Then someone who worked on the Metroid Prime series suggested Hardlight corruption.

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As in, phazon? Oh god…

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Originally Posted by IGN

He's pure evil now,

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Oh God!

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Originally Posted by IGN

more evil than the Covenant have ever been,

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You’re really going there aren’t you?!

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Originally Posted by IGN

and he's got new powers from the Hardlight corruption."

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GAAAAH!

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Originally Posted by IGN

The new powers are readily apparent when you first meet the Didact, where he throws the Chief around with the power of his mind. Telekinesis? Nope. He has subliminal control of Ultraviolet Hardlight. Same as the other stuff, just invisible.

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Tell me, who looked at phazon and thought “hey, let’s apply this to hardlight, because we’re too lazy/incompetent to actually develop the Didact as a character?”

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Originally Posted by IGN

"Of course, he's not the only one with Hardlight powers. The Librarian, who some fans might almost recognize from the terminals, does some funky stuff to the Chief with precise use of Hardlight.

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Hardlight is also related to the mutant gene apparently. Master Chief will have Wolverine claws in Halo 5.

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Originally Posted by IGN

And then there's the composer. Frankly, Tron ain't got nothing on us.

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True. Even Tron: Legacy felt closer to the original than Halo 4 did.

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Originally Posted by IGN

Can you say 'Digitized Hardlight'?"

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Can you say “space magic?”

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Originally Posted by IGN

Astute Halo fans might surmise that the Master Chief's new armor, decidedly different from the iconic Mark VI, might have origins in Hardlight. Surprisingly, this is not the case.

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Very surprising. I thought you might have taken the easy way out.

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Originally Posted by IGN

"We thought about it," O'Conner said with a twinkle in his eye. "That'd be totally cool, right?

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No it wouldn’t.

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Originally Posted by IGN

But his armor is actually Mark VI, just like the previous games. It's definitely changed, but having Hardlight as the cause just didn't seem realistic."

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Hardlight has never been realistic. But until now, it stayed out of space magic territory.

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Originally Posted by IGN

"So, the official explanation is that Cortana modified the suit with nanotechnology."

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As iffy as that explanation is, it pales in comparison to everything else in this article, so sure, I’ll roll with it.

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So, what can I say? Well, at least the poison’s out now. I just hope 343 keeps to Halo and not Metroid. They’re already screwed up one media, so hopefully Metroid will be spared a similar fate.

Reading that article, I can see that the franchise is pretty much dead and gone, lore-wise. And I already knew the multiplayer was a mess after my first few matches.

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Originally Posted by Hawki

Calling the Didact battle a “quicktime event” is an insult to quicktime events in general.

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Actually, quicktime events are a festering sore on the arse of video game design, and the sooner we can eradicate them and the designers who use them, the better.

Except for Bioware. They actually managed to use them well.

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Originally Posted by Hawki

That’s giving the Didact too much credit.

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Well, yes, even if both of his sources were idiots, you got a point.

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Originally Posted by Hawki

Snark

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Wow. Thanks for the laugh. Seriously, thanks.

That IGN article doesn't exist. I wrote it myself to vent my frustrations with Halo 4, and I took a lot of inspiration from this The Onion article. As for the Forerunner Battle Rifle, that would be the Light Rifle. Mechanically identical, except that it does extra damage when zoomed in.
Still symptomatic of lazy design or a severe lack of imagination.

Anyhow, yes, Halo in the hands of incompetents and anime fanboys now. On to something better.

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Originally Posted by Quirel

Actually, quicktime events are a festering sore on the arse of video game design, and the sooner we can eradicate them and the designers who use them, the better.

Except for Bioware. They actually managed to use them well.

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I dunno. Felt they were used well in the Resident Evil games. But yeah, a QTE should add to gameplay, not stand-in for it.

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Originally Posted by Quirel

That IGN article doesn't exist. I wrote it myself to vent my frustrations with Halo 4, and I took a lot of inspiration from this The Onion article. As for the Forerunner Battle Rifle, that would be the Light Rifle. Mechanically identical, except that it does extra damage when zoomed in.
Still symptomatic of lazy design or a severe lack of imagination.

Anyhow, yes, Halo in the hands of incompetents and anime fanboys now. On to something better.

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...derp.

Had a feeling it might have been false, but as I typed this up during work, I didn't want to risk going to IGN to check (whereas with this site, as long as I scroll down far enough so there isn't a protoss on top, I can operate more freely). I guess it's a pro to you that you could write it so convincingly, and a con that in the current climate, I could actually see 343 implementing the above ideas.

But hey, thanks for putting it up anyway. Felt good to get it all out, even if it was a response rather than a rant per se.

I just finished Halo 4 earlier tonight. It's by far the most visually amazing game I've ever played. Yeah, there are some leaps in logic and omissions of reality. But if you've ever played any game in the franchise, you know what to expect.

The sound design, music and environments are absolutely gorgeous. I feel the antagonist's motives are one-dimensional, but they still made for a better villain than ones in most games these days.

I've still got questions about events, characters and lore -- especially about elements introduced by the expanded universe as it all led into this installment yet were never addressed in the game -- but overall this game ultimately felt fulfilling. :)

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Originally Posted by Visions of Khas

I just finished Halo 4 earlier tonight. It's by far the most visually amazing game I've ever played.

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...okay.

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Originally Posted by Visions of Khas

Yeah, there are some leaps in logic and omissions of reality.

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Nah, really?

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Originally Posted by Visions of Khas

But if you've ever played any game in the franchise, you know what to expect.

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I expected it. I didn't get it.

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Originally Posted by Visions of Khas

The sound design, music and environments are absolutely gorgeous.

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Moving away from snark, I have to disagree. None of the new tracks really sold themselves to me, or at least, how they're used in the game. The OST for the last level for instance, while a good track in itself, didn't fit the situation at all IMO. I liked the sounds admittedly for the weapons and Covenant foes, but the environments were kinda "been there, done that," or if they weren't, felt like they were lifted from Tron.

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Originally Posted by Visions of Khas

I feel the antagonist's motives are one-dimensional, but they still made for a better villain than ones in most games these days.

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Actually the Didact would be a 2D villain under the three dimensions of character paradigm (writing course money well spent. Go figure). But even then, he irritated me. He was vapid, his goals and plan boiled down to "well, I'm evil, so this is what I do" and his persona was a complete 180 of how he'd been portrayed in previous media, including Halo 3. I know 343 is setting up the plot point of him being one of two Didacts, but seriously, why not just use Faber?

Oh, that's right. It's because Faber is, according to the terminals, a good guy. Gah, 343 can't even get its own continuity straight, let alone Bungie's.

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Originally Posted by Visions of Khas

I've still got questions about events, characters and lore -- especially about elements introduced by the expanded universe as it all led into this installment yet were never addressed in the game

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No kidding. It's incredible how John or Cortana never think to ask "why are the Covenant our enemies again" or "Spartan-IVs? When did they come in?" We as the players know the answers know the answer (provided you're familiar with the EU), but if not, you're boned. It's like 343 is saying "read our EU or suffer the consequences."

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Originally Posted by Visions of Khas

but overall this game ultimately felt fulfilling. :)

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Well, more power to you I guess.

Hawki - I don't get how you can dish on every single piece of media in existence yet still excuse and actually enjoy the travesty of a storyline in Wings of Liberty. It's the ultimate oxymoron. I mean, I haven't played Halo 4, but if it doesn't treat the player like a child, take a piss over the original lore, make each character lose 40 IQ points since the last game, and reek of all-around negligence....then you should be extolling its virtues to the masses. And if it does, then you should be ok with it anyway.

SC2 gave enough opportunities for "Jerry x Kerry" abominations to satisfy him.

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Originally Posted by Hawki

But hey, thanks for putting it up anyway. Felt good to get it all out, even if it was a response rather than a rant per se.

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http://myrunningshorts.files.wordpre...ctor_is_in.jpg

Lets just say, I wouldn't have alluded to Phazon corruption if I didn't know that was one of your berserk buttons.

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Originally Posted by Visions of Khas

I just finished Halo 4 earlier tonight. It's by far the most visually amazing game I've ever played.

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I'm not convinced that it's any better than Reach.

Well, yes, you have more people with fully animated faces that aren't hidden behind a visor for most of the game, but it seems like they made some trade-offs to get that fidelity. Notice that a lot of objects like crates are seen floating above the ground, and the draw-distance isn't really any longer than Reach.

In addition, I think that much of the 'wow' in the graphics comes from visually cluttered objects/structures. While Bungie kept it simple, for the most part, 343i went all out on the detail.
The result is a sandbox of visually similar weapons (Can you tell a Storm Rifle apart from a Carbine? Or a Light Rifle apart from a Binary Rifle? There will be a quiz on this, and it will be in the middle of a firefight when your shields are popped.), not to mention the Tron lines and greebles all over the Forerunner architecture.

Yeah, there are some leaps in logic and omissions of reality. But if you've ever played any game in the franchise, you know what to expect.

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Originally Posted by Visions of Khas

The sound design, music and environments are absolutely gorgeous.

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Sound design is meh. They completely overhauled the sound effects of the weapons, so there's not a good distinction between conventional and plasma weapons. Not a big fan of making the Covenant incomprehensible... again.

As for the music, I found myself replacing whatever was playing in the final scene with Cortana with "Virgil's Theme" from Mass Effect. Worked better.

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Originally Posted by Visions of Khas

I feel the antagonist's motives are one-dimensional, but they still made for a better villain than ones in most games these days.

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Feel sorry for most games, then.

I guess I'm getting tired of saving Earth. She's getting to be the eternal damsel in distress.

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Originally Posted by Visions of Khas

but overall this game ultimately felt fulfilling. :)

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I guess that makes you feel pretty fortunate.

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Originally Posted by Hawki

Actually the Didact would be a 2D villain under the three dimensions of character paradigm (writing course money well spent. Go figure).

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May have to look him up sometime.

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Originally Posted by Hawki

But even then, he irritated me. He was vapid, his goals and plan boiled down to "well, I'm evil, so this is what I do"

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Hence Shinzon. Without the (Comparatively) good writing.

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Originally Posted by Hawki

No kidding. It's incredible how John or Cortana never think to ask "why are the Covenant our enemies again"

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John did. Cortana said "A lot can happen in four years".

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Originally Posted by Hawki

or "Spartan-IVs? When did they come in?" We as the players know the answers know the answer (provided you're familiar with the EU), but if not, you're boned. It's like 343 is saying "read our EU or suffer the consequences."

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I always thought that ME3 did too much to bring in the new guys. Hell, they had an entire character who was an idiot, just so he could ask the questions that newcomers to the franchise might ask.

Having played Halo 4, I now know it's possible to be too inclusive, and I'm a longtime fan who's read the books.

This is how I visualize people at this forum these days:

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instanc...x/27223942.jpg


On the sound: I was originally disappointed to hear the heavy influences of dubstep and Daft Punk's Tron score. The influence of Tron in particular is readily apparent in all the Forerunner technology, especially in the finale levels. I wish there were more homage to Martin O'Donnell's orchestrations from the previous Halos.

Halo 4 is more or less on par with Reach on my scale. Maybe a little bit under, because though Halo 4 is grander in scope, the personality and characterization we were promised was lacking, while Reach delivered on this in spades.

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[Didact] was vapid, his goals and plan boiled down to "well, I'm evil, so this is what I do" and his persona was a complete 180 of how he'd been portrayed in previous media, including Halo 3. I know 343 is setting up the plot point of him being one of two Didacts, but seriously, why not just use Faber?

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I never understood him in the game. In all the media leading up to Halo 4, Didact revealed a grudging respect for humanity. In the pre-history presented in the Terminal videos, he even shows respect for his opposite number, the Lord of Admirals.

Then we (MC and Cortana) come along, unleash him from his Cryptum, and he goes on the rampage as though humanity didn't defeat the flood, and as though humanity destroyed Forerunner colonies just yesterday. The only thing I could think of was he knew of some threat that we don't, leading him to forge a new army from the human population of Earth with the Composer. But I don't believe there were any hints towards this.

To say that an ancient evil has been unleashed in the form of the Didact just seems... out of place. At worst he was misguided and prideful, but not necessarily evil evil.

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Originally Posted by Gradius

Hawki - I don't get how you can dish on every single piece of media in existence yet still excuse and actually enjoy the travesty of a storyline in Wings of Liberty. It's the ultimate oxymoron. I mean, I haven't played Halo 4, but if it doesn't treat the player like a child, take a piss over the original lore, make each character lose 40 IQ points since the last game, and reek of all-around negligence....then you should be extolling its virtues to the masses. And if it does, then you should be ok with it anyway.

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I had this thought the entire time I read Hawki's post.

HALO 4 has a lot wrong with it when it comes to its storyline, but it's not even close to the poor writing and poor character development that Lings of Wiberty had.

I'm pretty sure Zeratul lost 400 IQ points.

Best picture ever.

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Originally Posted by Gradius

Hawki - I don't get how you can dish on every single piece of media in existence yet still excuse and actually enjoy the travesty of a storyline in Wings of Liberty. It's the ultimate oxymoron. I mean, I haven't played Halo 4, but if it doesn't treat the player like a child, take a piss over the original lore, make each character lose 40 IQ points since the last game, and reek of all-around negligence....then you should be extolling its virtues to the masses. And if it does, then you should be ok with it anyway.

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...Sigh.

Okay, let's go through this:

1) You need a better definition of "every" and/or stop having a selective memory in regards to the instances of praise/criticism I heap on medias. The "your top character deaths" thread would be an example.

2) As you said, you haven't played Halo 4, so you can't really play the oxymoron card. And certainly I've found it strange that people dis(like) x while dis(lik)ing y (you included), but personal preferences are hard to quantify. Usually it's pointless to bring them up.

3) Back to WoL, there's another key difference. With WoL, even if I disliked the story, I could fall back on the gameplay. In H4, I don't have that luxury.

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Originally Posted by The Economist

SC2 gave enough opportunities for "Jerry x Kerry" abominations to satisfy him.

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Brownie points for rhyme, face-palm for the suggestion.

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Originally Posted by Quirel

Lets just say, I wouldn't have alluded to Phazon corruption if I didn't know that was one of your berserk buttons.

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Phazon, I don't have a problem with. Using it as it was in the faux article I would.

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Originally Posted by Quirel

The result is a sandbox of visually similar weapons (Can you tell a Storm Rifle apart from a Carbine? Or a Light Rifle apart from a Binary Rifle? There will be a quiz on this, and it will be in the middle of a firefight when your shields are popped.),

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Know what you mean. Not too much of an issue personally, as I found myself using Promethean weaponry whenever I could...which was a downside, but that's another kettle of fish.

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Originally Posted by Quirel

Sound design is meh. They completely overhauled the sound effects of the weapons, so there's not a good distinction between conventional and plasma weapons. Not a big fan of making the Covenant incomprehensible... again.

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I wasn't too put off by it, but yeah, you make a good point as to the similar sounds, especially when comparing the storm rifle to the assault rifle. Actually liked the Covenant sounds though. There's nothing inherantly wrong with "run away" or "wort wort wort!" but...well, it can get old.

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Originally Posted by Quirel

I guess I'm getting tired of saving Earth. She's getting to be the eternal damsel in distress.

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Think of it this way. Earth's our mother. 4.6 billion years old. Come the future, she's in the nursing home. And like all good children, we have to look after her. Or just leave her in the nursing home and go to another part of the galaxy.:p

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Originally Posted by Quirel

John did. Cortana said "A lot can happen in four years".

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That he does. What I meant was that they don't ask the question when it has a chance of being answered, as in, after meeting up with the crew of the Infinity.

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Originally Posted by Quirel

I always thought that ME3 did too much to bring in the new guys. Hell, they had an entire character who was an idiot, just so he could ask the questions that newcomers to the franchise might ask.

Having played Halo 4, I now know it's possible to be too inclusive, and I'm a longtime fan who's read the books.

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It's funny you should mention that. Having come from D3 to H4, I had a similar experience, going from "assume the player knows nothing so tell them everything" to "assume the player knows everything so tell them nothing." Neither's perfect, but honestly, I think I might prefer the former. Something I never thought I'd say until recently.

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Originally Posted by Visions of Khas

Halo 4 is more or less on par with Reach on my scale. Maybe a little bit under, because though Halo 4 is grander in scope, the personality and characterization we were promised was lacking, while Reach delivered on this in spades.

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How would you scale the games as a whole? Not being snide, just wondering.

Personally I'd put H4 at the bottom right now, overall. Even ignoring the story, the gameplay felt like too much of a step back for my tastes and/or half-hearted homage to the previous games.

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Originally Posted by Visions of Khas

never understood him in the game. In all the media leading up to Halo 4, Didact revealed a grudging respect for humanity. In the pre-history presented in the Terminal videos, he even shows respect for his opposite number, the Lord of Admirals.

Then we (MC and Cortana) come along, unleash him from his Cryptum, and he goes on the rampage as though humanity didn't defeat the flood, and as though humanity destroyed Forerunner colonies just yesterday. The only thing I could think of was he knew of some threat that we don't, leading him to forge a new army from the human population of Earth with the Composer. But I don't believe there were any hints towards this.

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I doubt it. If there was a new threat, I think it might have been hinted at in the epilogue. Granted, I think there will be, namely the Precursors at some point, but still, I'm not sure how Didact could know about them. Not in the immediate sense after being released at least.

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Originally Posted by Visions of Khas

To say that an ancient evil has been unleashed in the form of the Didact just seems... out of place. At worst he was misguided and prideful, but not necessarily evil evil.

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Maybe it's because "new evil" doesn't have the same ring to it.:p

(Not my joke, but too good to pass up.)

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Originally Posted by Pr0ngo

I'm pretty sure Zeratul lost 400 IQ points.

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So if a few lines results in the loss of that many IQ points, does that mean that by the same scale, the majority of videogame characters are brain-dead?

You know, I can understand people getting hung up over Mengsk even if I don't agree with them, but the whole Zeratul thing feels like making a mountain out of a molehill.

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Originally Posted by Gradius

make each character lose 40 IQ points since the last game

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Another poster on the b.net forums described this process in action:

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Originally Posted by spidersting

BW Jim Raynor: I'm the one who's going to KILL YOU Kerrigan.
SC2 Jim Raynor: I can save Kerrigan let's all go to Char, where the whole God damn Swarm operates from, and use an Artifact that we don't even know will work. I can save her! T_T

BW Zeratul: "But while we wait for word from them, we must reconnoiter the surrounding area and find a suitable location for a more permanent settlement. Once we're situated we can begin to search for the Dark Templar."
SC2 Zertaul: PROPHECY! ARTIFACTS! SHE'S THE KEY. PROPHECY!

BW Kerrigan: "It is certainly within my power, but you're not a threat to me, Jim. Be smart; leave here now and never seek to confront the Zerg again. "
SC2 Kerrigan: Swarm. SWWAAARRRM. I'ma INFEST YOUUUUU! OOGIEBOOGIE BOOGIE.

BW Tassadar: "So long as you continue to be so predictable, O Queen, I need not face you at all. You are your own worst enemy. "
SC2 Tassadar: Ha ha im not really dead and i will never be dead ha ha ha

Everything cool about the original dialogue, story, and character development fell flat on it's face in SC2. The only interesting, compelling character in Wings of Liberty was Tychus. And he DIED.

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Originally Posted by Hawki

...Sigh.

Okay, let's go through this:

1) You need a better definition of "every" and/or stop having a selective memory in regards to the instances of praise/criticism I heap on medias. The "your top character deaths" thread would be an example.

2) As you said, you haven't played Halo 4, so you can't really play the oxymoron card. And certainly I've found it strange that people dis(like) x while dis(lik)ing y (you included), but personal preferences are hard to quantify. Usually it's pointless to bring them up.

3) Back to WoL, there's another key difference. With WoL, even if I disliked the story, I could fall back on the gameplay. In H4, I don't have that luxury.

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Hey, I'm just saying:

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Originally Posted by Quirel

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Originally Posted by Hawki

It's incredible how John or Cortana never think to ask "why are the Covenant our enemies again" or "Spartan-IVs? When did they come in?"

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Cortana said "A lot can happen in four years".

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Where have I seen this before? hrm...

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Originally Posted by Visions of Khas

Then we (MC and Cortana) come along, unleash him from his Cryptum, and he goes on the rampage as though humanity didn't defeat the flood, and as though humanity destroyed Forerunner colonies just yesterday.

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This here bugged me, in a way. Didact hates us, because we're the Forerunner's eternal enemy. The Librarian claims that we were the Forerunner's most tenacious foe.

I'm sorry? Us getting our teeth kicked in during a border conflict makes us a greater threat than the eldritch abomination that consumed most of the galaxy, including the Forerunner's seat of government?

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Originally Posted by Visions of Khas

The only thing I could think of was he knew of some threat that we don't, leading him to forge a new army from the human population of Earth with the Composer. But I don't believe there were any hints towards this.

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Which which would mean that Lord of Admiral's... 'reasoning' for not warning the Forerunner about the Flood is common sense in the Haloverse.

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Originally Posted by Hawki

Actually liked the Covenant sounds though. There's nothing inherantly wrong with "run away" or "wort wort wort!" but...well, it can get old.

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The lines themselves can get old in a hurry, but they're not just there for entertainment value. They're a part of what brings the Covenant to life.

The best parts of Halo are when I get the feeling that the Covenant have their own reason for standing between me and my goals. Or when an Elite sees me across the map, watching with a sniper rifle. We meet eyes, and then he does his darndest to stay alive.

The Covenant in Halo 4 don't have that sort of charm. Their AI has been dumbed down slightly, and their battle chatter can't be discerned above the gunplay.

Promethean Knights are the worst, because they literally exist for no other reason than to be killed. And no, a flaming skull doesn't count as character. Ghost Rider proved that beyond a shadow of a doubt.

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Originally Posted by Hawki

Think of it this way. Earth's our mother. 4.6 billion years old. Come the future, she's in the nursing home. And like all good children, we have to look after her. Or just leave her in the nursing home and go to another part of the galaxy.:p

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Well, Earth is only in danger because we live here, and therefore all evil aliens what hold a grudge against us are going to attack her to hurt us. It's high time we implemented the Spiderman Solution and left her, for her own good.

Its time we boarded our ships and left for the void between the stars, leaving Earth to lie fallow and renew herself.
Imagine, in tens of millions of years, another intelligent race might rise up from the apes, or perhaps from another branch of the animal kingdom. Imagine them slowly building civilization, their archaeologists discovering the faint remains of our once-proud cities, speculating upon what kind of meteor impact must have killed us off.

And we'd return to harvest them and the refined resources that went into building their own societies, right at the point where they were at the cusp of achieving space travel...

...Suddenly, it occurs to me that we aren't spending remotely enough of planetary defense.

On a more serious note, the Spiderman analogy is pretty apt. Movie after movie, game after game, the bad guy of the week threatens to invade Earth or raze her with some sort of beam weapon.

Maybe threatening Earth, like abducting Peter Parker's love interests/Aunt May, is easier to write than alternatives. But because it's been done so often, there has to be a bigger reason for me to care than "You were born here."

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Originally Posted by Hawki

That he does. What I meant was that they don't ask the question when it has a chance of being answered, as in, after meeting up with the crew of the Infinity.

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True. I guess my point was that 343i wasn't really all that interested in the answer anyway. The Covenant are here to shoot, we've got a weak backstory to explain it, and we don't expect anyone to care about it.

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Originally Posted by Hawki

How would you scale the games as a whole? Not being snide, just wondering.

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It's funny. I dislike Halo Wars almost as much as Halo 4, even though I think that the latter is objectively worse.
I guess that's what disappointment does to you. I had high hopes for Wars, and it failed to deliver. I had few hopes for Halo 4, and it failed spectacularly.

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Originally Posted by Quirel

This here bugged me, in a way. Didact hates us, because we're the Forerunner's eternal enemy. The Librarian claims that we were the Forerunner's most tenacious foe.

I'm sorry? Us getting our teeth kicked in during a border conflict makes us a greater threat than the eldritch abomination that consumed most of the galaxy, including the Forerunner's seat of government?

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What, didn't you hear? Humans are just that awesome. We've gone from the days of it taking over two decades to reverse Covie shield tech to reverse engineering Forerunner tech in a manner of months. We're the dominant species now. The "greatest threat in the galaxy." The...

...you know what, just watch Lasky's monologue to Spartan Ops. If you get through it without getting a kick in the balls, then you came out of it better than I did.:(

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Originally Posted by Quirel

Well, Earth is only in danger because we live here, and therefore all evil aliens what hold a grudge against us are going to attack her to hurt us. It's high time we implemented the Spiderman Solution and left her, for her own good.

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I'm missing something with that analogy.

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Originally Posted by Quirel

Its time we boarded our ships and left for the void between the stars, leaving Earth to lie fallow and renew herself.
Imagine, in tens of millions of years, another intelligent race might rise up from the apes, or perhaps from another branch of the animal kingdom. Imagine them slowly building civilization, their archaeologists discovering the faint remains of our once-proud cities, speculating upon what kind of meteor impact must have killed us off.

And we'd return to harvest them and the refined resources that went into building their own societies, right at the point where they were at the cusp of achieving space travel...

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Provided the Reapers don't beat us to it.;)

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Originally Posted by Quirel

On a more serious note, the Spiderman analogy is pretty apt. Movie after movie, game after game, the bad guy of the week threatens to invade Earth or raze her with some sort of beam weapon.

Maybe threatening Earth, like abducting Peter Parker's love interests/Aunt May, is easier to write than alternatives. But because it's been done so often, there has to be a bigger reason for me to care than "You were born here."

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Wouldn't that be New York?

But Earth aside, it's especially grievous in Halo 4. It seems the Didact's plan is to go through every city of every continent, hoping that humanity doesn't take out his ship in the meantime. Which despite their uber powers up until now, they've suddenly become incapable of doing.

...you know, I don't know what's worse. The Didact's 'plan', or that the UNSC's firepower seems to shift in accordance with the demands of the plot.:(

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Originally Posted by Quirel

It's funny. I dislike Halo Wars almost as much as Halo 4, even though I think that the latter is objectively worse.
I guess that's what disappointment does to you. I had high hopes for Wars, and it failed to deliver. I had few hopes for Halo 4, and it failed spectacularly.

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Pretty much ditto.

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Originally Posted by Hawki

What, didn't you hear? Humans are just that awesome. We've gone from the days of it taking over two decades to reverse Covie shield tech to reverse engineering Forerunner tech in a manner of months. We're the dominant species now. The "greatest threat in the galaxy." The...

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Ok, what science fiction franchises out there have humans on the bottom of the totem pole? Because I feel like a change of pace.

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Originally Posted by Hawki

...you know what, just watch Lasky's monologue to Spartan Ops. If you get through it without getting a kick in the balls, then you came out of it better than I did.:(

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Eh, I'm probably going to have to watch that again. Only thing I remember about the dialog in Spartan Ops is "Eggheads, eggheads, eggheads, EGGHEADS!"

Yeah, plot armor aside, it's pretty sad that the paragon* of anti-intellectualism aboard the Infinity has a better track record of shutting down misbehaving Forerunner artefacts than the scientists who actually study them.

*Or would that be renegade?

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Originally Posted by Hawki

I'm missing something with that analogy.

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Other superheroes do it too, but a big deal has been made of how Peter Parker doesn't tell the people he cares about that he's Spiderman and tries to distance himself from them, lest they be targeted by his foes.

Judging from the original movies, it has a 0% success rate. I'm optimistic about how it'll play out with the new series.

Anyhow, if villains are targeting Earth because we live there, the humane thing to do is move out.

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Originally Posted by Hawki

Wouldn't that be New York?

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Wonder if there's some sort of tally as to which monuments have been destroyed on the silver screen the most. The Statue of Liberty would be my guess.

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Originally Posted by Hawki

But Earth aside, it's especially grievous in Halo 4. It seems the Didact's plan is to go through every city of every continent, hoping that humanity doesn't take out his ship in the meantime.

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That's part of what reminded me of Shinzon. To quote Stardestroyer.net...

http://stardestroyer.net/Nemesis/Cap...Nemesis-32.jpg

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Originally Posted by Hawki

Which despite their uber powers up until now, they've suddenly become incapable of doing.

...you know, I don't know what's worse. The Didact's 'plan', or that the UNSC's firepower seems to shift in accordance with the demands of the plot.:(

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Yeah, that got pretty bad. I understand that a Forerunner ship can take a ton of damage (as we saw in Halo 3) but the UNSC should have at least tried SOMETHING.
And did they not rebuild the orbital defense stations? If not, they're lucky that the Infinity was in-system.

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Originally Posted by Quirel

Ok, what science fiction franchises out there have humans on the bottom of the totem pole? Because I feel like a change of pace.

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In the realm of sci-fi, and keeping it to the bottom and staying there, Battlestar Galactica would be one off the top of my head. Other than that, I'd need some wriggle room with the totem pole.

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Originally Posted by Quirel

Eh, I'm probably going to have to watch that again. Only thing I remember about the dialog in Spartan Ops is "Eggheads, eggheads, eggheads, EGGHEADS!"

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Poached, boiled, scrambled, or fried?

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Originally Posted by Quirel

Wonder if there's some sort of tally as to which monuments have been destroyed on the silver screen the most. The Statue of Liberty would be my guess.

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If so, the Golden Gate Bridge is a close second.

I'm just worried right now about the Reclaimer Trilogy having some kind of Villain of the Day Syndrome. We've fought and beat the Didact, arguably one of the most powerful individuals in galactic history. Now where to from there, I wonder. Unless 343i whips out the Precursors, I don't see the trilogy going bigger and bolder, but rather "darker and deeper" -- more "character oriented."

I can see us dealing with the Arbiter's Secularists vs the Storm Covenant, and probably a division within the UNSC -- making US the next big threat to the galaxy.

The way the original trilogy was set up, there was a smooth story arc. This... well, I loved Halo 4, but I worry about the future.

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Originally Posted by Hawki

In the realm of sci-fi, and keeping it to the bottom and staying there, Battlestar Galactica would be one off the top of my head.

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This is debatable. Beginning with the introduction of the Pegasus, the humans go on to destroy a resurrection ship, several basestars and even the frickin homeworld colony ship at the end with what seems to be relative ease. Sure, they take casualties but by that time, no-one seems to care because they're actually no longer on the bottom rung.

Compare this to the first season where they literally agonise every time they lose one viper pilot over a minor engagement, are hardly a match for a single basestar let alone 3 later on the series and that, all-in-all, death is but a mere door-knock away. Granted that the series would have been short (ie: the death of all the colonials) had it taken the full logical course of its premise, but BSG is not exactly a good example of "humans being perpetually on the bottom rung" either.

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Originally Posted by Visions of Khas

I'm just worried right now about the Reclaimer Trilogy having some kind of Villain of the Day Syndrome. We've fought and beat the Didact, arguably one of the most powerful individuals in galactic history.

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I wouldn't mind the Didact coming back admittedly (which is pretty much a given). Partly because I wouldn't call a QTE a 'victory' over him, partly because when it comes to resurrection, I'm generally more open to villains coming back than protagonists. Which is why I'm not amicable to the idea of Cortana coming back in contrast. She got the ending she deserved, and her return would be detrimental to John's character development IMO.

(Giving credit where credit is due, I will give 343 credit as to how they handled John and Cortana's characters.)

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Originally Posted by Visions of Khas

Now where to from there, I wonder. Unless 343i whips out the Precursors, I don't see the trilogy going bigger and bolder, but rather "darker and deeper" -- more "character oriented."

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Does the trilogy need to get bigger and bolder? Original trilogy did so. Nothing wrong with that, but it would be good to have a different approach.

Unfortunately, I think they will bring back the Precursors. If the Forerunners are what the Covenant were to the first trilogy, then the Precursors would be the equivalent of the Flood potentially. Make what you will of where that leaves the Covenant as they stand now.

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Originally Posted by Visions of Khas

I can see us dealing with the Arbiter's Secularists vs the Storm Covenant, and probably a division within the UNSC -- making US the next big threat to the galaxy.

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I dunno. I get the feeling that the Arbiter's faction is effectively being marginalized. The Storm (Storm seems to have crept in via OXM, but it's a term I prefer to use) are only ever referred to as "the Covenant" in the game. Not "the Storm" or "a Covenant splinter faction," just, "the Covenant." This could change, but the impression I got was that it was 343's way of trying to marginalize past lore, as if to say, "this is the Covenant, still alive and kicking from Halo 3. We know from the EU that's not entirely true, but...well, I'll put it this way. If the Arbiter gets a bullet in the head in the last book of the Kilo-Five Trilogy, I won't be surprised.

The idea of the UNSC being the villain in the end is an interesting idea. It's something I could see happening in principle. Unfortunately, for it to work, I think you need an outsider protagonist, someone who can look at a situation and say, "this is wrong." John may have been gone for four years, but I can't see him shifting his UNSC allegiance. And of existing characters, I don't see Lasky, and certainly not Palmer going down that road either.

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Originally Posted by Turalyon

This is debatable. Beginning with the introduction of the Pegasus, the humans go on to destroy a resurrection ship, several basestars and even the frickin homeworld colony ship at the end with what seems to be relative ease. Sure, they take casualties but by that time, no-one seems to care because they're actually no longer on the bottom rung.

Compare this to the first season where they literally agonise every time they lose one viper pilot over a minor engagement, are hardly a match for a single basestar let alone 3 later on the series and that, all-in-all, death is but a mere door-knock away. Granted that the series would have been short (ie: the death of all the colonials) had it taken the full logical course of its premise, but BSG is not exactly a good example of "humans being perpetually on the bottom rung" either.

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Yeah, it's a fair point. It's something I noticed too. Not immediately, but the arrival of Pegasus did signal a subtle change in the show's essence. Still, I didn't mind too much, because I could run with the notion of Pegasus, even after being destroyed, had still had lots of men and material left over, not to mention the Cylon Civil War also helping.

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Originally Posted by Hawki

In the realm of sci-fi, and keeping it to the bottom and staying there, Battlestar Galactica would be one off the top of my head. Other than that, I'd need some wriggle room with the totem pole.

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Very well, then.
I guess, for a given definition of 'Science Fiction', H.P. Lovecraft's stories work as well.

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Originally Posted by Hawki

Poached, boiled, scrambled, or fried?

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After what happened to that one guy? Fried.

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Originally Posted by Hawki

If so, the Golden Gate Bridge is a close second.

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Think I've only seen that destroyed once.

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Originally Posted by Hawki

I wouldn't mind the Didact coming back admittedly (which is pretty much a given).

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I think it's pretty much a given. He's immune to the effects of the Composer, as outlined by the Terminal videos. Besides, I think it was a slipspace portal he fell into. A portal to where, I wonder?

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I get the feeling that the Arbiter's faction is effectively being marginalized.

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I hope not. That would throw the events and accomplishments of Halo 3 completely out the window. I choose to believe that 343i didn't want to confuse the audience any more than they had to, and address that as a central issue in a game further down the line.

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The idea of the UNSC being the villain in the end is an interesting idea. It's something I could see happening in principle. Unfortunately, for it to work, I think you need an outsider protagonist, someone who can look at a situation and say, "this is wrong." John may have been gone for four years, but I can't see him shifting his UNSC allegiance. And of existing characters, I don't see Lasky, and certainly not Palmer going down that road either.

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There's already a cold war brewing between FleetCom and ONI, the two big political contenders behind the UMSC. Interesting fact: After the Infinity's commissioning, Fleet Admiral Lord Hood wanted to place an officer whose loyalty lie entirely with him, without an iota of recognition to ONI. Unfortunately, that man was Andrew del Rio. With del Rio's dismissal, ONI's won some political points.

Right now, in the Kilo 5 trilogy (Spoilers follow, if you care) ONI is arming the Storm Covenant, making sure that no single Sengheili faction wins too easily, too fast. Though the Storm seem powerful, the Elites as a whole are still in disarray; while FleetCom is tacitly backing the Arbiter's Secularists. There's plenty of fertile soil right there for a civil war within the UNSC right there, replete with treasonous acts and everything.

Cortana has already set the precedent that the actions and loyalty of the Cortana/Master Chief collective no longer lie entirely with humanity. If anyone -- anyone -- gets between MC and Cortana (and you KNOW she isn't quite "dead" yet) then UNSC be damned. Besides, Master Chief has his own built-in moral compass and has pretty much said, "Screw you" to del Rio. Who says he won't do it again?

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Originally Posted by Visions of Khas

I think it's pretty much a given. He's immune to the effects of the Composer, as outlined by the Terminal videos. Besides, I think it was a slipspace portal he fell into. A portal to where, I wonder?

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If there's anything I've learned about how non-Bungie writers handle slipspace portals, it'll take him right where he needs to go.
Whether Sergeant Forge is going to be there to save him from a random Infection form, or if he'll be greeted by a tribe of devout Elites waiting to be saved by a God remains to be seen.

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Originally Posted by Visions of Khas

I hope not. That would throw the events and accomplishments of Halo 3 completely out the window. I choose to believe that 343i didn't want to confuse the audience any more than they had to, and address that as a central issue in a game further down the line.

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Hehe.
Yeah. That's not going to happen. You see the way they threw Didact, the Composer, the Librarian, the Infinity and the Spartan 4s at you? I don't think that "the audience might get confused" was ever up for consideration.

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Originally Posted by Visions of Khas

There's already a cold war brewing between FleetCom and ONI, the two big political contenders behind the UMSC. Interesting fact: After the Infinity's commissioning, Fleet Admiral Lord Hood wanted to place an officer whose loyalty lie entirely with him, without an iota of recognition to ONI. Unfortunately, that man was Andrew del Rio. With del Rio's dismissal, ONI's won some political points.

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>.<
Over at HBO, we were speculating whether del Rio's reputation for bringing his ships back intact was because he'd flee at the first sign of things going south.

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Originally Posted by Visions of Khas

Right now, in the Kilo 5 trilogy (Spoilers follow, if you care) ONI is arming the Storm Covenant, making sure that no single Sengheili faction wins too easily, too fast. Though the Storm seem powerful, the Elites as a whole are still in disarray; while FleetCom is tacitly backing the Arbiter's Secularists. There's plenty of fertile soil right there for a civil war within the UNSC right there, replete with treasonous acts and everything.

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There's plenty of fertile ground there for a trilogy about the Covenant breaking itself apart in a long civil war, like what was hinted at in The Return.
Don't think that 343i is going to go down that route.

As for it being covered in the novels, there's one last Kilo 5 novel to be published, which will likely focus on the Venezia conflict that had been hinted at in the first two books.

I doubt that Jul will play a large role, because it's already been revealed what he did afterward: Amassed a great big fleet, parked it outside of Requiem, and spent three years pleading with Didact to unlock the front door.

Also, ONI has been arming the Servants of the Abiding Truth, not the Storm. I doubt they'd offer them to the Storm, and I doubt that Jul would accept.