Q & a #3

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/764...t_3-10_22_2012

Q&A no. 3 released. Again posting thoughts:

-The Overmind...yeah, I'm gonna play the "I told you so card."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOMk5GWvlks

Now that my moment of gloating is over, I'll back it up by saying that I've seen this theory thrown out before, have supported said theory, and I'm glad to see it validated. What I also like is that the revelation the Overmind was only interested in the zerg fits its SC1 character IMO. It has leeway to operate, and its creation of Kerrigan is only to service the zerg at the end, that it couldn't give a damn about what the Dark Voice did to the rest of the galaxy. Don't think there's a trope, but borrowing a line from Warcraft, I'm glad the Overmind is back in "honourable but nasty" territory.

-Tychus/Mengsk: Kind of mixed. I mean, couldn't Tychus have still contacted Mengsk pre-mission? I understand that Tychus turning over the Odin to the Dominion would indeed blow his cover, but prior to the mission? That he has spies in the Moebius Foundation is interesting, but still it's relying on "show" rather than "tell." Still, I can understand the mentality in general, and it's probably about as good an explanation as we're going to get, even if I still think it's iffy.

-Prophecy: Oh Kindragen, how could you? Out of all the questions you could have chosen, you chose to address that one?:rolleyes:

Now if you excuse me, I have to avoid the anti-prophecy brigade.

High-five, Hawki. I thought the same thing about the Overmind. As I said, it was a slave, not a robot. Of course it makes it less of a bad-ass but I don't care. Still an evil space god who farts bugs. The Overmind is officially "not ruined".

Prophecy - It would have been cool if he gave us an actual sci-fi explanation instead of getting all philosophical, but hey, still interesting.
Tychus - Not touching this with a 10 ft. pole.

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There were compulsions it had to follow in certain situations.

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And that's the problem in the first place. We've all seen this theory before, and the problem is still the same: it's flagrant cherrypicking. Why is the Overmind allowed to consider such "less important" options with the intent of rebelling anyway? Does that not defeat the purpose of mind control? o.O

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And to clarify something that I've seen widely misinterpreted, the Overmind did not create the Queen of Blades to save the galaxy, the Koprulu sector, or anything besides the zerg. The Overmind saw a vision in which the zerg were used to kill the protoss, and only the fact that the zerg were slaves bothered it. The end of that vision showed all the zerg being sucked dry by hybrid. It represented the destruction of the zerg, and that was what the Overmind wanted to prevent. It wished to move the Swarm out from the Dark Voice's control to save the zerg—and only the zerg. The Overmind would have been happy to see the zerg consume every other species in existence.

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Ughhhhh. :(

It's "widely misinterpreted" because that's not what we were shown in the game. Tassadar is sitting there praising the Overmind and its courage/valor, and if the Overmind didn't care about the protoss, why did he bother commenting on how bravely they would die? Tassadar tells us that the Overmind was not always an abomination that cared only about itself. Kindragen tells us the opposite.

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Originally Posted by Gradius

Prophecy - It would have been cool if he gave us an actual sci-fi explanation instead of getting all philosophical, but hey, still interesting.

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No. I've seen that metaphor used more times than I can count. It's an answer to a question that doesn't need an answer. I'm more content with "it's prophecy, it's magic" because previous mentions of prophecy aside, we have a universe of psionic powers that border on magic anyway.

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Originally Posted by Gradius

And that's the problem in the first place. We've all seen this theory before, and the problem is still the same: it's flagrant cherrypicking. Why is the Overmind allowed to consider such "less important" options with the intent of rebelling anyway? Does that not defeat the purpose of mind control? o.O

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Really the only thing to cherrypick is Kerrigan though. Helps the Swarm directly/indirectly (whole psionic potential thing), is a being of free will regardless. The by-product rather than the goal, as far as such protocols would allow.

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Originally Posted by Gradius

It's "widely misinterpreted" because that's not what we were shown in the game. Tassadar is sitting there praising the Overmind and its courage/valor, and if the Overmind didn't care about the protoss, why did he bother commenting on how bravely they would die? Tassadar tells us that the Overmind was not always an abomination that cared only about itself. Kindragen tells us the opposite.

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I'll provide the script here for reference:

Tassadar: I have come to tell you of this creature's... courage.

Zeratul: Courage? It was an abomination!

Tassadar: Not always. The zerg were... altered. A single over-riding purpose was forced upon them: the destruction of our people.

Tassadar: The Overmind was formed with thought and reason... but not free will. It screamed and raged within the prison of its own mind.

Zeratul: Who did this? Why?

Tassadar: I know not. But the Overmind found a way to resist its all-consuming directive. It created a chance... a hope of salvation.

Tassadar: The Queen of Blades.

Zeratul: Madness!

Tassadar: Only she can free the zerg from slavery – and in so doing, save all that is... from the flame.

Zeratul: I do not understand, brother.

Tassadar: Forget what you know, Zeratul. The Overmind saw a vision... the end of all things. And now you must see it too.

Overmind: On a distant, shadowed world, the protoss will make their final stand. Their heroes will gather, their forces will be marshaled, and they will die bravely. But still, they will die. And my zerg... will be slaves... to the hybrid. (next mission text).

So, going by these quotes and Kindragen's lines/issues...there isn't really an issue. Tassadar praises the Overmind's courage and valour, as does the Overmind to the protoss. Praise does not necessarily equal concern, or at least, the concern that makes one concerned enough about their welfare to act. Tassadar states that Kerrigan can save the zerg from slavery, and in doing so, save everyone (the by-product). The Overmind can comment about the protoss, but is more concerned that "my zerg will be slaves to the hybrid." There's no direct line that states that "the Overmind created Kerrigan to save the universe" or "the Overmind mourned for the protoss." It's the encapsulation of "honourable but nasty."

The only way I can rationalize that script is to accept that Tassadar has no clue what he's talking about or he's just a phantasm created by the Overmind. Like, I don't get how you can read that script and come out with that conclusion.

"The Overmind was formed with thought and reason"

Would Tassadar honestly say that if the Overmind only gave a damn about itself? Such an idea is anathema to everything the real Tassadar believed in. But hey, whatever. Everyone's interpretation is valid, etc. etc. <_<

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Originally Posted by Hawki

No. I've seen that metaphor used more times than I can count. It's an answer to a question that doesn't need an answer. I'm more content with "it's prophecy, it's magic" because previous mentions of prophecy aside, we have a universe of psionic powers that border on magic anyway.

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I just think these Q&As should be used to give us new actual lore, not spend all its time clarifying the terrible writing that left so many people confused.

I'm getting a strange vibe with all these Q&A's. Each one that's been released so far hasn't actually shed any more light/ given me any more info that I don't already know already or have figured out either on my own or by someone else. I've ranted about the Overmind 'free will' thing in the past but I've always been aware that the writers really intended the Overmind to come across as being somewhat of a slave with a compulsive disorder - they just did it in a very stupid, confusing and unclear way.

I think these explanations may have a detrimental effect in that they highlight how poor the actual explanations that Brian gives were communicated to us throughout WoL. In other words, WoL's presentation does not even remotely suggest that Brian's explanations are the one and true interpretation when it really should have. I keep hearing that the story was "ambiguous enough" for us to figure it out the right way but that's just bs considering that that same ambiguity just as easily leads many to think the wrong way. If WoL's story was so clear, there shouldn't be any Q&As to "fix" things up, am I right?

One is then left to wonder whether these oversights (that the Q&As correct) were initially intentional on their part to purposefully mislead us or whether it is just plain and simply atrocious writing. You can probably guess which camp I think they fall into (and no, it's not the former, smart-arse. You know who you are... ;)).

It's quite likely they left things somewhat vague and open for discussion exactly because it would generate discussion. It's the first instalment in a trilogy so there's plenty of time to clarify everything down the line, after all.

As for the answers given, the prophesy thing is somewhat bothersome, because it does indeed go into fantasy area and makes the Protoss feel too magicky. Don't get me wrong, I'm a big believer in Clarke's third law, but the Protoss have just moved too far into fantasy land when they should be more firmly grounded in understandable science. It shifts them away from something interesting to something that's not. Prophesies are also lame in general. I want a universe where nothing is set in stone and prophesies like this are impossible to make.

The Tychus thing? It's been ages since I've played the games so it's possible I don't know if what was said holds up to scrutiny, but from what's said it's actually... good. I love the idea that Mengsk would willingly sacrifice something to get a bigger pay-off down the road. It would've added some depth to the guy, and it's something that would've fit with his previous depiction. But I also think this should've been said in WoL explicitly.

The Overmind and Kerrigan things was stuff I already guessed before the reply. Nice to have it confirmed though.

About the Overmind, I think the elements to understand that it wasn't a good guy are totally there. But of course, this was so badly-handled that many people got confused.

Personally, such is my own perception: when I played, it was ambigous if the Overmind was retconned into a good/neutral entity or not; when I thought about it latter, there was no ambiguity. The Overmind always admired, in an affectioned way, Protoss' perfection, and yet never cared for their lives. It shows the same behavior in WoL. Tassadar is a warrior above everything, and I expect him to be able to admire tenacity and will power even in enemies, specially after his ascencion.

It could be said, about the Overmind, that it was never shown as evil, not even in SC1; it just has this blue/orange morality, where individual lives and suffering never matter. Of course, in human society, this is the very definition of evil; but we expect our criminals and psychopaths to be anything but deep or noble. The Overmind was a threat to all sentience, but he had something in common with some of the best humans we heard of: it was deeply concerned about higher values, values it considered more important than its own life.

So I think WoL made the Overmind more awesome because:

- It is now a slave with limited free will... no wait, that makes it less bad-assed. -1 point;
- It confirms the Overmind character we knew in SC: a noble, psycopathic space god. +1 point
- It makes sense into one of the biggest plot holes of SC/BW (IMO): Kerrigan being left with her "greatness" seemed as a good thing by the Overmind, when this "greatness" obviously hurts the Swarm more than once. It is almost like they were planning this since SC1. Perfectly delivered. +2 points


I'm not buying that Tychus explanation at all. I agree it would fit Mengsk's personality, this cold-hearted calculation. But trade a 100% chance to lose all your reputation for a 1% chance of killing Kerrigan AFTER the Swarm was already defeated? No, it doesn't make sense and they admitted it in Blizzcon.

I think Prophecy is OK is sci-fi when it is just a source of information. In WoL, we're chasing prophecies, like trying to fullfil them. That's how it works in mithology - Camelot and Aedipus style. Brian's explanation was OK, but it wasn't like it was executed in WoL.

Kudos to Mr. Kindregan for trying to salvage the clusterf(bleep) that is the SC lore as reflected in WoL into something coheasive and sensible.

But as has been pointed out, there are incongruencies with his explanations as opposed to what's actually presented in game. Case in point the 'Media Blitz' missions. Brian's explanation for Mengsk's actions would seem reasonable in themselves; the same rationalization that would allow deep cover operatives or spies to go through extreme lengths to maintain their cover, or that allowed the bombing of Coventry during WW2(if the theory is in fact true).

Problem is, this isn't what were presented with in game. Mengsk was actually genuinely surprised to see Raynor on Korhal, and in his own capital city no less, and during the press conference directly after, he is caught completely off guard when Kate Lockwell plays the recording and is at a complete loss in regards an explanation..

Funny thing is, Metzen himself actually admitted that it was a plot whole & didn't really have an explanation as to how it was missed, but in light of the mission itself, the one he asspulled on the spot at that time actually made more sense.:D

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Originally Posted by Gradius

The only way I can rationalize that script is to accept that Tassadar has no clue what he's talking about or he's just a phantasm created by the Overmind.

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Ooh, I like that last theory!

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Originally Posted by l33telboi

It's quite likely they left things somewhat vague and open for discussion exactly because it would generate discussion.

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You mean like what Bioware claimed to do with the endings? :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by l33telboi

Prophesies are also lame in general. I want a universe where nothing is set in stone and prophesies like this are impossible to make.

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Bah! Prophesies like that are easy to make. Something nebulous will happen because the Author says it shall be...

Oh, wait, "where NOTHING is set in stone". In that case, you're pretty much right.