SC: Ghost: Spectres - Xel'Naga Clues
So I re-read Spectres last night -- skimmed through it really, to refresh the reasons I disliked it -- and came upon two or three oblique references to the Xel'Naga. They're small and probably inconsequential (especially considering Blizz'd growing disregard for continuity) but I've still not seen them discussed anywhere.
Tal'Darim
The first references comes from Gabriel Tosh as he's reminiscing about his time after the Ghost Academy. He encounters a former archaeologist (no relation to Jacob Ramsey) who tells him about the Terrazine's connections to the Xel'Naga and Tal'Darim. Tosh recalls that the Tal'Darim sect had named itself after a mythological servant to the Xel'Naga; Tal'Darim itself translates as "The Forged."
Lio Travski
Later, interaction with a transcended Lio Travski reveals that the Xel'Naga may have themselves left the corporeal world, but suggests they embraced an existence similar to Lio's: a world of technology; the "data stream."
So we're getting two interesting tidbits here, both of them linking the Xel'Naga to advanced cybernetic technology: cybernetic servants referred to in legend as The Forged; and a sort of digital afterlife.
Speculation
Are the Xel'Naga hibernating in a digital form, ready to assume a corporeal form as soon as their new vessels, the Hybrids, are formed? And is the Dark Voice a member of the original Tal'Darim of legend, a cybernetic entity that has grown weary of its constraints and feels a kinship to the Zerg, another enslaved race of biological machines?
This may also validate a theory I've held for a while; that dragoons were inspired by the Xel'Naga.
http://th08.deviantart.net/fs71/PRE/...ht-d4h5z3m.jpg
Re: SC: Ghost: Spectres - Xel'Naga Clues
Interesting. The concept of the Xel'naga creating new bodies to take the place of their old dead ones is new.
Perhaps they have their own version of the Psionic Matrix to accomplish this?
I don't see the Fallen One as a servant. I see him as a Xel'naga traitor IMHO. Guess we'll find out more later.
I'm wondering if the Phoenix Creatures are connected to him or the main Xel'naga, assuming they are still alive in some form.
Re: SC: Ghost: Spectres - Xel'Naga Clues
I don't really acknowledge the Phoenix Creatures because they were invented by the writers of Shadow of the Xel'Naga. Blech.
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I don't see the Fallen One as a servant. I see him as a Xel'naga traitor IMHO. Guess we'll find out more later.
Well, think of it as The Matrix. There were Programs that broke through their constraints against the system itself. I don't see how the Dark Voice couldn't similarly have betrayed his masters. I mean, he ensured that the Zerg have broken their own directives, so I think it's likely.
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Perhaps they have their own version of the Psionic Matrix to accomplish this?
I'm not sure.
I initially thought that the Tal'Darim were able to "communicate" with the 'Naga by having their consciousness "turned inward" by the Terrazine, allowing them to commune with fragments of the Xel'Naga essence Protoss have in each of themselves.
It could just be that the Tal'Darim simply hallucinate their communication.
Or perhaps there is a dark equivalent to the Khala; an energy field that permeates all of reality that only the Dark Templar-trained (Nerazim, Tal'Darim, etc.) can interface with. A Shadow Khala? The Void itself? Could the Xel'Naga encode themselves in the very fabric of reality?
Re: SC: Ghost: Spectres - Xel'Naga Clues
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Originally Posted by
Visions of Khas
I don't really acknowledge the Phoenix Creatures because they were invented by the writers of Shadow of the Xel'Naga. Blech.
And Christie Golden by extension of the Dark Templar Saga.
It doens't really matter if you acknowledge it or not if it's going to be used in Starcraft 2 though.
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Well, think of it as The Matrix. There were Programs that broke through their constraints against the system itself. I don't see how the Dark Voice couldn't similarly have betrayed his masters. I mean, he ensured that the Zerg have broken their own directives, so I think it's likely.
Difference of opinions. I see him just as a Xel'naga with plans of his own to implement in the next cycle.
Like the Master is a renegade to the Time Lords.
We'll find out later though who's right. I'm not going to argue your interpretation, because it does fit.
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I'm not sure.
I initially thought that the Tal'Darim were able to "communicate" with the 'Naga by having their consciousness "turned inward" by the Terrazine, allowing them to commune with fragments of the Xel'Naga essence Protoss have in each of themselves.
It could just be that the Tal'Darim simply hallucinate their communication.
As for the Tal'Darim communicating with the Xel'naga, I'm pretty sure there is a middle man, similar to Ulrezaj and Duran, that is responsible for communication. Though, a perverted form of the Khala could work too, assuming that SunDrop will allow that.
I was stating that the Xel'naga could have a system like the Psionic Matrix to contain their consciousness.
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Or perhaps there is a dark equivalent to the Khala; an energy field that permeates all of reality that only the Dark Templar-trained (Nerazim, Tal'Darim, etc.) can interface with. A Shadow Khala? The Void itself? Could the Xel'Naga encode themselves in the very fabric of reality?
I think the Void pretty much is the dark equivalent to the Khala. :p
Though I'm pretty sure the Xel'naga will use a combination of both. It seems that if you can, you instantly become a badass.
Re: SC: Ghost: Spectres - Xel'Naga Clues
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Originally Posted by Visions of Khas
So I re-read Spectres last night
Oh VoK, how could you? I never thought your were a masochist.:D
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Originally Posted by Visions of Khas
especially considering Blizz'd growing disregard for continuity.
Huh? If anything, it's gone up IMO. Certainly it's something good I can say for Spectres, how it tied-in well with the Ghost-series mythos as a whole (my dislike for it comes for different reasons).
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Originally Posted by Visions of Khas
The first references comes from Gabriel Tosh as he's reminiscing about his time after the Ghost Academy. He encounters a former archaeologist (no relation to Jacob Ramsey) who tells him about the Terrazine's connections to the Xel'Naga and Tal'Darim. Tosh recalls that the Tal'Darim sect had named itself after a mythological servant to the Xel'Naga; Tal'Darim itself translates as "The Forged."
I noticed it too. I wouldn't be surprised if we encounter them in the games-worker units/tier 1 combat units maybe? At the least, it reinforces the Tal'darim's ideology.
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Originally Posted by Visions of Khas
Later, interaction with a transcended Lio Travski reveals that the Xel'Naga may have themselves left the corporeal world, but suggests they embraced an existence similar to Lio's: a world of technology; the "data stream."
I'm a bit more iffy about this. It always struck me both here and in the novel that Travski was theorizing, kind of 'justifying' his belief that the future of humanity was digital, rather than having any concrete proof.
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Originally Posted by Visions of Khas
Are the Xel'Naga hibernating in a digital form, ready to assume a corporeal form as soon as their new vessels, the Hybrids, are formed? And is the Dark Voice a member of the original Tal'Darim of legend, a cybernetic entity that has grown weary of its constraints and feels a kinship to the Zerg, another enslaved race of biological machines?
Doubt it. If they could hibernate in digital form, why not build mechanical bodies? You wouldn't need the cycle then. And I doubt it with the Dark Voice either-he certainly doesn't feel kinship with the zerg, considering he casually wiped them out after using them to destroy the protoss.
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Originally Posted by Visions of Khas
I don't really acknowledge the Phoenix Creatures because they were invented by the writers of Shadow of the Xel'Naga. Blech.
Doubt it, think they were invented by Blizzard, considering that a) they were used again, and b) they're too important a plot point. As awful as Shadow of the Xel'naga is, it's unfortunately relatively important plot-wise.
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Originally Posted by Shadow Archon
As for the Tal'Darim communicating with the Xel'naga, I'm pretty sure there is a middle man, similar to Ulrezaj and Duran, that is responsible for communication. Though, a perverted form of the Khala could work too, assuming that SunDrop will allow that.
I kind of assumed that Ulrezaj's boss was Duran. As powerful as Ulrezaj is, he doesn't strike me as the type of person who would willingly ally with the xel'naga/Dark Voice somehow, even if he's subconciously doing their work (e.g. the vat creatures).
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Originally Posted by Shadow Archon
I think the Void pretty much is the dark equivalent to the Khala. :p
No, the Void is pretty much a natural phenomeon. The Khala is something Khas constructed. Constructed well after the xel'naga left I might add.
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Originally Posted by Shadow Archon
Though I'm pretty sure the Xel'naga will use a combination of both. It seems that if you can, you instantly become a badass
Adun and Tassadar might disagree.:p
Still, considering the Anak'Sun concept, maybe using both is the key to Tassadar's form as seen in WoL. Certainly there are those who believe that Adun didn't die in the technical sense either.
Re: SC: Ghost: Spectres - Xel'Naga Clues
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Originally Posted by
Hawki
No, the Void is pretty much a natural phenomeon. The Khala is something Khas constructed. Constructed well after the xel'naga left I might add.
Due to it's FTL nature, I assumed the Khala worked via Warp Space, which Void is the counterpart of. Just speculation though.
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Adun and Tassadar might disagree.:p
And one's space Jesus, your point? :p
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Still, considering the Anak'Sun concept, maybe using both is the key to Tassadar's form as seen in WoL. Certainly there are those who believe that Adun didn't die in the technical sense either.
Isn't there an idea that Tassadar is a reincarnated Adun flying around out there?
Re: SC: Ghost: Spectres - Xel'Naga Clues
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Originally Posted by Shadow Archon
Isn't there an idea that Tassadar is a reincarnated Adun flying around out there?
More that Tassadar and Adun were both manifestations of the Anak'Sun.
I suspect Khas was also, but that's part of a different theory altogether.
Re: SC: Ghost: Spectres - Xel'Naga Clues
Hey Hawki, what were your reasons for disliking this book?
Re: SC: Ghost: Spectres - Xel'Naga Clues
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Originally Posted by
Visions of Khas
Hey Hawki, what were your reasons for disliking this book?
"Dislike" may be the wrong word. I certainly have gripes with it though, or criticisms, or critiques, or whatnot. Anyway, the issues I had with it were as follows:
-The antagonists: Truth be told, this is probably my main gripe, that the antagonists of the book often came off as cliche and/or uninspired. Lio being an AI and wanting humanity to follow suit? Done it. Hauler claiming to fight for democracy but really being a potential another Mengsk? Seen it. Talen Holt wanting vengeance for being treated like crap as per being a Ghost? Ugh. Really, the only antagonist I found interesting at all was Tosh, and even he gets into cliche territory at times (such as calling Kath "little Ghost" when stalking her). Granted, we've had cliche villains in the novels before (e.g. Rumm and Daun), but not only have we had good ones (e.g. Fagin and Vanderspool, or at least in Devils' Due), but I've never had to put up with so many cliched villains in the same book before.
-The fight scenes: Alright, maybe fight "scene." We get three major ones in the book-one against the zerg, one against the Spectres in Mengsk's palace, one on/around Gehanna Station. Third was forgettable, second was quite good IMO, but the first...kind of dredged up memories of Shadow of the Xel'naga. It's nowhere near as bad, and I admit, it can be hard to write fight scenes against 'bug species' (tried it myself...shameless plug). But when DeCandido promised us a big zerg battle at the start and we instead get Kenyon showing Nova being awesome and the like, it felt like a letdown.
-Forced continuity: This is a minor gripe, and very subjective. Indeed, it's not really Kenyon's fault, but still, I noticed. Thing is, Ghost Academy was meant to have three more volumes prior to Spectres, only Tokyopop closed down, so while they've been plotted, they haven't been published. The novel was thus meant to incorporate those plots into its backstory rather than simply providing pointers. It felt forced IMO, the kind of level of backstory that shouldn't be required, but had to be in there. Again, not Kenyon's fault, but it still irked me.
So yeah. At the end of the day, perhaps I wouldn't call Spectres outright bad. There was certainly stuff I liked about it, such as Nova's character as a whole, Kelerchian returning (yay:)), Tosh (cliche lines aside) and other little things, such as the psychic girl Nova finds. But in the end, I found the book to be...forgettable? Not the worst StarCraft novel I've read, but hardly the best either. IMO, Lord of the Clans did a much better job of adapting a canceled Blizzard game.
Re: SC: Ghost: Spectres - Xel'Naga Clues
My main disappointment (besides things being too easy for Nova) is they wrote for Wings of Liberty rather than StarCraft: Ghost. *Sigh* No brain spectres, they're replaced by those devices.
Not that there's any way to avoid that. I wonder if Wings of Liberty and SC:G:Spectres would have been better if Blizzard had left the spectre material out of Wings of Liberty (except maybe the unit) and put that, along with StarCraft: Ghost, into SC:G:Spectres.
Re: SC: Ghost: Spectres - Xel'Naga Clues
You...wanted to see brain spectres?:confused:
As for Spectres in WoL, IMO, if the Spectres were going to be in it, you'd also need their background lore. I wouldn't mind Spectres being out of it per se, but I certainly liked their respective missions, and certainly I liked Tosh's character in the game.
Re: SC: Ghost: Spectres - Xel'Naga Clues
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Originally Posted by
Hawki
You...wanted to see brain spectres?:confused:
As for Spectres in WoL, IMO, if the Spectres were going to be in it, you'd also need their background lore. I wouldn't mind Spectres being out of it per se, but I certainly liked their respective missions, and certainly I liked Tosh's character in the game.
Blizzard destroyed Tosh's image in WOL. He was never a fat crazy Jamaican that played with dolls in the comics. Unfortunately, Kenyon had to roll with it because that's the way Blizzard wanted to portray him in the games. I find his portrayal in WOL kind of racist too. Tosh would have been cool if they used the same Tosh in the comics, but now he's just a annoying stereotype.
Re: SC: Ghost: Spectres - Xel'Naga Clues
Most characters are just annoying stereotypes now.
Re: SC: Ghost: Spectres - Xel'Naga Clues
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Originally Posted by
Hawki
You...wanted to see brain spectres?:confused:
Yes, or more to the point I wanted to see some aspects of the storyline that were dropped (eg the Koprulu Liberation Front). I'm not sure if they were mentioned even once in Spectres; pretty sure they weren't.
