The Effect of the Psionic Storm on Burrowed Units

I thought about the effect of the photonic storm on burrowed units...
Well in sc1 the photnic storm of the high templer did full damage to zerg unit, burrowed or unburrowed.
and i wonderd why? the earth the zerg burrowed in sups to block the storm.
my question is what do you think will happend in sc2?
do the burrowed unit get full damage? half? or not at all?

I personaly think there will be no changes but i hope blizzard will change it...
It'll be pretty awesome to see pro players burrowing the zergling moment before the storm attacks and avoiding damage / getting a half of it.

I believe you mean Psionic Storm...and as far as I know it is the same as it was in SCI

It is the same as in SC1, if you realize what exactly psi storm is made from and how it works you will understand that it doesn't matter if your above ground or not you would still take full damage.

Hint: You can't stop psi powers with solid objects (unless they have Psionic properties of their own).

It's not a electrical storm. Just imagine it being a storm of uranium tipped bullets. Earth can't stop them.

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Originally Posted by supersonic

It is the same as in SC1, if you realize what exactly psi storm is made from and how it works you will understand that it doesn't matter if your above ground or not you would still take full damage.

Hint: You can't stop psi powers with solid objects (unless they have Psionic properties of their own).

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if you are deep enough under ground you won't get hurt, but i imagine that the zerg quickly borrowing won't get far enough. also marines inside bunkers and units inside ships don't get effected by psionic storm. not sure if thats just gameplay

Haha, photonic storm. They so need to put that into the game.

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also marines inside bunkers and units inside ships don't get effected by psionic storm. not sure if thats just gameplay

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Pretty sure it's just gameplay. Otherwise if a psionic storm hits I would just step into my house and close the door.

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Originally Posted by Pandonetho

Haha, photonic storm. They so need to put that into the game.



Pretty sure it's just gameplay. Otherwise if a psionic storm hits I would just step into my house and close the door.

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lmao that would be an awesome "the gathering" replacement. "Photonic Storm"

Yeah I'm sure it is gameplay reasons.

My favorite thing about Photonic Storms are the beautiful rainbows that follow in their wake. Also, Psionic Storms aren't just lightning, they are mental energy that would have no heed or hinderance from simple soil.

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Originally Posted by SaharaDrac

My favorite thing about Photonic Storms are the beautiful rainbows that follow in their wake. Also, Psionic Storms aren't just lightning, they are mental energy that would have no heed or hinderance from simple soil.

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Rainbows? Is this a new visual effect in SCII? I want to see it =)
I love visual subtleties

We had a big thread on this @ blizzforums: http://blizzforums.com/showthread.php?t=24044&page=4

We decided that psionic storm is a completely physical effect (but created via mental powers).

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Originally Posted by Gradius

We had a big thread on this @ blizzforums: http://blizzforums.com/showthread.php?t=24044&page=4

We decided that psionic storm is a completely physical effect (but created via mental powers).

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Just because you have more people agree with one thing, doesn't change the fact that it's a Psi attack, and not "lightning storm".

and only 4 pages long? Not much of a big thread ;]

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Originally Posted by supersonic

Just because you have more people agree with one thing, doesn't change the fact that it's a Psi attack, and not "lightning storm".

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But it is a lightning storm; every example of it in lore involves physical destruction & a "lightning storm" that can be seen.

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and only 4 pages long? Not much of a big thread ;]

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True.

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Originally Posted by Gradius

But it is a lightning storm; every example of it in lore involves physical destruction & a "lightning storm" that can be seen.

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Psionic Energy can take a lot of forms and as far as I know can also distort things. So it is entirely possible that the Psi Energy is taking the form of lightning as to look more aggressive/memorable or as a way to better channel currents of energy.

If it's not electricity, it shouldn't look like electricity.

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Originally Posted by http://classic.battle.net/scc/protoss/special.shtml

psionic storm
psionic storm cost: 75 energy
range: 9

the protoss are such powerful psychics that they can inadvertently send out psychic "ripples" that are disruptive to other life forms. With careful training, high templar learn to focus these ripples into a storm of raw psychic energy that is capable of literally tearing apart the minds of lesser species.

a psionic storm that is unleashed will damage all units under it.

Psionic storm has no effect on buildings.

Psionic storm damages the templar when it casts it upon itself.

Psionic storm is not stackable so casting more than one on the same object at the same time does not cause more damage.

Psionic storm does not damage units under a stasis field.

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/thread

IIRC, the original debate was whether psionic storm was a brain-damaging ability, or a zapping ability. The Dark Templar Saga made it clear it can blow up jungle, so physical.

Personally, I like to believe that psionic storm takes both mental and physical manifestations.

First of all, it's physical because as you can see it can blow up a jungle as Kimera said. ALSO, if it was purely mental, then a battlecruiser should crash and burn just as easily as a marine.

My reasons for believing it's also mental? Well, the compendium says so itself, also, lesser beings (zerglings? hydralisks? marines?) they die VERY fast. Simply because they're mental abilities suck ass. IMO psionic storm first has to penetrate their physical defenses, and then the mental portion of it leaks through and wrecks havok on anyone it touches. This is why guys in tanks don't die as fast as marines.

Just my interpretation though, I'm probably completely wrong.

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Originally Posted by Kimera757

IIRC, the original debate was whether psionic storm was a brain-damaging ability, or a zapping ability. The Dark Templar Saga made it clear it can blow up jungle, so physical.

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And you think than the amount of *Psionic* energy that can blow up a jungle won't affect the mind at all?

I think it has both effects. It's psionic energy. Any kind of energy in enough quantity damages stuff. Psionics can damage minds. And, it's Blizzard's site what i quoted up there in my last post.

Pandonetho's interpretation is interesting, but it's based on gameplay, which can or cannot match lore.

Even if they could destroy anybody inside a Battlecruiser with Psionic Storms, it won't be so easy to get so close to cast it in the first place, and High Templars aren't available in great numbers, nor can constantly cast Psi Storm. So, no matter how destructive is it, you cannot use it freely to destroy everything, you still need weapons and a conventional army.

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that is capable of literally tearing apart the minds of lesser species.

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Note the "literally". This would be a physical effect. It's drawn as a lightning storm in-game in both SC1 and SC2. The storm tears up brains as easily as it does the landscape, therefore it's a physical lightning storm.

What's misleading is "the protoss are such powerful psychics that they can inadvertently send out psychic "ripples" that are disruptive to other life forms". It gives the impression that it's a purely mental ability, but it doesn't seem to have anything to do with an actual psionic storm.

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Originally Posted by Pandonetho

My reasons for believing it's also mental? Well, the compendium says so itself, also, lesser beings (zerglings? hydralisks? marines?) they die VERY fast. Simply because they're mental abilities suck ass. IMO psionic storm first has to penetrate their physical defenses, and then the mental portion of it leaks through and wrecks havok on anyone it touches. This is why guys in tanks don't die as fast as marines.

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If you're going to go with a gameplay perspective, then it's clear that it's physical. One thing that storm does though is ignore the armor. Combined with the misleading info from the manual, it makes for a confusing matter, hence the thread @ BF.

Psionic storm is physical. Its telekinesis of a sort. It creates an actual storm.

most likely physical. In any case, ask Metzen! He got the last word on everything even if it doesn't make any sense.

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Originally Posted by sandwich_bird

most likely physical. In any case, ask Metzen! He got the last word on everything even if it doesn't make any sense.

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http://www.arcaniarts.com/img/youlie.JPG

We have the last word, we the members of StarCraft Legacy, the Keepers of the Lore!


...don't we?

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Originally Posted by warrior6

if you are deep enough under ground you won't get hurt, but i imagine that the zerg quickly borrowing won't get far enough. also marines inside bunkers and units inside ships don't get effected by psionic storm. not sure if thats just gameplay

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It would be great if it fried marines inside bunkers, but you can always say Bunkers (ans all mechanical units) have some sort of psi blockers or something to justify. It would be possible, terrans have Ghosts after all. Like EMP and NBQ protection in military instalations nowadays.

Terrain simply don't hold mind powers.

Pretty sure marines in lore do get friend in bunkers.

As for gameplay, it would be outright a terrible idea to have psi storm kill units in bunkers.

What protects the marines in bunks against psionic storms are the exact same thing that protects them from a full nuclear explosion. ;)

Psionic Storm is AN ACTUAL STORM. Created telekinetically.

So how do you avoid a storm? BY GOING INSIDE. Inside of a building, like a bunker.

Durr.

Why does it have to be exclusively telepathic or exclusively telekinetic?

Can it not have a dual effect?

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Originally Posted by n00bonicPlague

Why does it have to be exclusively telepathic or exclusively telekinetic?

Can it not have a dual effect?

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Yes, but it obviously doesn't if it can't penetrate buildings.

What's to say there isn't a special type of psionic shielding that each of the races use on their buildings? The Terrans have developed all sorts of technology involving the manipulation of psionic energy: psi emitters, psi screens, the Psi Disruptor, etc. The Protoss would obviously want to prevent the destruction of their own structures, and, knowing how their techniques work, could easily prevent such damage. The Zerg have a degree of familiarity with psionics, so they could probably do something with their structures as well.

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Yes, but it obviously doesn't if it can't penetrate buildings.

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So you're saying that psionic storm is nothing more than a regular suped up storm? Because that's pretty stupid.

High Templar: I have lived for many centuries and I have learned the power art of the psionic storm... too bad it can't even hurt someone inside a bunker WITH PORTHOLES.

Yeah gameplay = gameplay.

personally i think they should drop this whole pretense of "psi", just start calling psi energy magic and refer to templar as wizards and magicians--it would be really cool and out there.

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Originally Posted by deadlock

personally i think they should drop this whole pretense of "psi", just start calling psi energy magic and refer to templar as wizards and magicians--it would be really cool and out there.

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/edited\

Allow me to repeat Artanis' famous line:

THIS IS NOT WARCRAFT IN SPACE

If I wanted magic and wizards I'd waste my time playing WC3. Which I don't. This is StarCraft.


/edit
I apologize for the insult in the earlier version of this post. I'm just extremely ticked off at the fantasy genre right now. Everything's "harry potter this" and "harry potter that" and it's really beginning to bug me.

So please, for the sake of everyone's sanity, let's keep it Psi and work around the difficulties.

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Originally Posted by Xyvik

/edited\

Allow me to repeat Artanis' famous line:

THIS IS NOT WARCRAFT IN SPACE

If I wanted magic and wizards I'd waste my time playing WC3. Which I don't. This is StarCraft.


/edit
I apologize for the insult in the earlier version of this post. I'm just extremely ticked off at the fantasy genre right now. Everything's "harry potter this" and "harry potter that" and it's really beginning to bug me.

So please, for the sake of everyone's sanity, let's keep it Psi and work around the difficulties.

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yeah exactly it wouldn't be fantasy, it would be science fiction with badass magicians and fucking astral adventures. in fact it would be the coolest thing ever. just imagine that shit.

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Originally Posted by Gradius

Note the "literally". This would be a physical effect. It's drawn as a lightning storm in-game in both SC1 and SC2. The storm tears up brains as easily as it does the landscape, therefore it's a physical lightning storm.

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Even if it can physically destroy a brain, it doesn't means it won't affect the mind other than by physically destroying the brain.

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Originally Posted by Gradius

What's misleading is "the protoss are such powerful psychics that they can inadvertently send out psychic "ripples" that are disruptive to other life forms". It gives the impression that it's a purely mental ability, but it doesn't seem to have anything to do with an actual psionic storm.

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It's pretty clear that a Protoss can inadvertenly send out "ripples" (a word usually associated with electrical signals, thus probably referring to psionic signals/energy) that can negatively impact other life forms. Negatively in this sense:

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dis⋅rupt
  /dɪsˈrʌpt/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [dis-ruhpt] Show IPA
–verb (used with object)
1. to cause disorder or turmoil in: The news disrupted their conference.
2. to destroy, usually temporarily, the normal continuance or unity of; interrupt: Telephone service was disrupted for hours.
3. to break apart: to disrupt a connection.

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Now, if you concentrate enough of this "ripples" of psi energy as to physically damage something, it's pretty clear that even if it's not completely destroyed physically, any mind caught on the concentrated "ripples" won't be just disrupted, it will be outright destroyed, unless it's somehow protected.

Can physical objects, like armor and soil reduce the amount of psi energy that reachs the brain? Maybe. But that doesn't means that the attack won't affect the mind, or that a lot of energy needs to reach the mind to destroy it.

I don't get why you say that it seems to have nothing to do with Psi Storm, when Blizzard's description of Psi Storm is that very "ripples" used in a concentrated way.


Another line to consider is this:

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The celestial rage of a Psionic Storm can be a terrifying sight for any unit. This physical display of the full Psionic power of the High Templar can cause massive damage, and all units caught inside the area effect of the Psionic Storm will suffer heavy damage -- or possibly even be destroyed. As a Psionic Storm concentrates all the Psionic energy over a given area, overlapping Psionic Storms do not have any greater effect than a single one.

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It's psionic energy, and a lot of it (in fact, the maximum that can be concentrated into a given area). Obviously has physical effects, we seen it destroying physical stuff in several places, but do you think that amount of psionic energy won't affect the mind of anyone trapped inside, other than by physically destroying the brain?

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Originally Posted by Norfindel

Can physical objects, like armor and soil reduce the amount of psi energy that reachs the brain? Maybe. But that doesn't means that the attack won't affect the mind, or that a lot of energy needs to reach the mind to destroy it.

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In frontline volume 3 for example, Muadun shorted out all the lights and machinery with his psionic storm.

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Originally Posted by Norfindel

I don't get why you say that it seems to have nothing to do with Psi Storm, when Blizzard's description of Psi Storm is that very "ripples" used in a concentrated way.

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It could be the same thing, sure, but, logically such ripples would have no need to be focused into a physical storm in order to kill things. But according to all our evidence, Psi Storm is not that thing. Every lore example shows Psi Storm damaging the environment. Why put forth more energy to damage the environment?

Lots of stuff in the manual is getting retconned nowadays anyway. Parts of it were sloppily put together.

I believe these psychic ripples referred to in the manual are the same kind of thing that Terran Ghosts use to kill people by making them bleed out the ears, etc. Kerrigan had psionic storm in-game, but in Queen of Blades instead of conjuring a psionic storm, she made people bleed out the ears. I believe that this is what Psionic Storm was originally intended to be by the developers, but now it got retconned because it makes no sense for it to be that and the physical lightning storm that we see in-game which damages objects as well as living things.

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Originally Posted by deadlock

yeah exactly it wouldn't be fantasy, it would be science fiction with badass magicians and fucking astral adventures. in fact it would be the coolest thing ever. just imagine that shit.

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lmao

BTW it can penetrate building to a certain extent. Read Frontline volume 3, there's a templar who broke cells door in a prison. The thing people failed to see is that in the game, proportions are a bit off. So basicly, sure it probably does damage buildings, but if it only break down a couple of windows well who cares. I'd say that this is why psi storm doesn't dammage building even though it can kill living things (or mechanicals things like the siege tank).

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Originally Posted by deadlock

yeah exactly it wouldn't be fantasy, it would be science fiction with badass magicians and fucking astral adventures. in fact it would be the coolest thing ever. just imagine that shit.

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Choose your next words carefully, Leonidas. They may be your last as king.

sry about the "photonic" never played protoss that much @@
any way... over thinking on it again...
can the SC2 psi storm destroy the rocks which blocking the expos?
it could get usful in mid-game.

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Originally Posted by Gradius

It could be the same thing, sure, but, logically such ripples would have no need to be focused into a physical storm in order to kill things. But according to all our evidence, Psi Storm is not that thing. Every lore example shows Psi Storm damaging the environment. Why put forth more energy to damage the environment?

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The ripples being disruptive don't necessarily means they can inadvertently kill people, but surely they don't need to destroy everything in the room just to kill a few people, either. Probably, the Psi Storm is used in battle to damage people and vehicles alike (like a weapon), then the writers began to abuse it, and just use that when they could had used far subtlier methods (like Kerrigan's "bleed from the ears" attack). Also, it's cooler to wreck all the room, right? :rolleyes:

I still believe that if it's made of psionic energy (and seriously, what else could it be?), it would have an effect over the mind, even if it's overkill, and also destroys physical stuff.

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Originally Posted by MetalHeadClan

sry about the "photonic" never played protoss that much @@
any way... over thinking on it again...
can the SC2 psi storm destroy the rocks which blocking the expos?
it could get usful in mid-game.

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I wouldn't count with that, as in-game Psi Storm cannot damage buildings, why would it destroy the neutral rocks?