What are you talking about! Gameplay has always respected lore!
But seriously, the Swarm Host should have his own building. Zerg macro is way too easy, IMHO. Building something should "add" a little challenge.
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What are you talking about! Gameplay has always respected lore!
But seriously, the Swarm Host should have his own building. Zerg macro is way too easy, IMHO. Building something should "add" a little challenge.
Adding new buildings is the LAST thing Blizzard ever wants to do. In BW, Lurkers required Hydra Dens and Devourers needed the Greater Spire, remember?Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Blade
I actually had someone concept art a building for the swarm host because I knew it wouldn't get one, LOL.Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Blade
Agreed, though.
They added a research for lurkers, too, which was quite expensive IIRC. Either a building, evolution or research is needed to help other races handle Zerg. The buildings would be best. I would hate having to guess if he is going Infestors or Swarm Hosts. We would face a similar problem to the scenario of the current TvP rant. If I see a Greater Spire or an Ultras Cavern I know what to build before the Broodlords or Ultras come stomping down the map. In a similar way we scout Terran's add-ons and Protoss tech buildings. I don't see why scouting a Zerg should be any different.Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaCadimus
lol the only thing that looks terribly unbalanced is the tempest. Actually I think giving the carrier more range coulda worked out just as well. Otherwise give protoss a real anti air unit. If they don't either change the tempest back or buff the phoenix then nothing in the protoss anti air was really fixed.
I can only come to the conclusion if the Tempest stays 'as is' design wise is because they're holding out for LotV. Surely it shouldn't have 22 range by then. XD
No it wouldn't... they have completely different kinds of attacks. Carriers basically have the attack of like 8 marines.Quote:
lol the only thing that looks terribly unbalanced is the tempest. Actually I think giving the carrier more range coulda worked out just as well.
Tempests fire slightly weaker siege tank blasts.
they should make more mutation, roach--->swarm host(reaserch upgrade, like the lurker) and the vipers can have their own building
Research upgrades are really dumb, you can't scout them at all. And eh, I don't think the roach is the right unit to mutate into the swarm host at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Amph
I don't think adding one tech building to each race would really be that awful, but I dunno. They don't usually add buildings to expansions. I don't think the Infestor and Swarm Host sharing tech really works that well, but I dunno what else the Swarm Host could share tech with.
i like research upgrade, the more the better for me, as it is now does not make any sense, at least they should give them their own building, but i prefer mutation, is more zergish
You mean right now, why scouting a Terran should be any different right? As a Zerg player, scouting what will Terran do is a big problem to me. You scout him, and he has Barracks, Factories and Starports. If he has Starports with tech labs, it could mean Banshees or Ravens(even though Ravens are highly unlikely, I've seen some games with massing them on high level, let's assume they are viable), if I see Factory with Tech Lab upgrading something, it could be Thor's cannon, Siege Tank upgrade or Blue Flame for Hellions. And from all this you are defending with different units.Quote:
In a similar way we scout Terran's add-ons and Protoss tech buildings. I don't see why scouting a Zerg should be any different.
And even if you scout for example one Starport with Reactor, few Barracks with some of them having tech labs and one Factory with tech lab, he can just switch add-ons and start massing Banshees with Cloak.
Most of Zerg's unit buildings are also tech buildings. Without looking at units, its the hardest to see what they're going to do and the Zerg have the easiest time of completely shifting their unit composition. Meanwhile, Protoss has the hardest time scouting because they don't have flying Pylons or scanners.
It's not that complicated once you know what you are scouting. Going for a crazy build or something unexpected will hurt your oponents macro. Cloaked Banshees are one of the easiest things to scout, you'll see early gas and no expo. It's not only about the buildings but his timings on other stuff before he actually gets hellion production or stuff.Quote:
Originally Posted by RamiZ
Most of the time, if I see many add-ons early on (7-9 min mark) without expansion, I'll try to choke his expos or attack for the kill. Terrans can't have cash for everything. Add-on production is expensive and that's why we see pros handle single techlabs until they get an expo.
The Thor canon is quite unlikely vs Zerg, and he will take the decision over your unit composition, which Zerg can switch pretty fast.
Massing Banshees is not cost effective against Zerg. Through scouting you can find his starport before he gets 2-3 banshees and cloak. Then build spores and queens or whatever you like.Quote:
Originally Posted by RamiZ
Zerg need creep to build their stuff. It is harder for them to hide their Tech. Against Zerg I like my Stargates. Some Void Rays will secure my expo and a Fenix will help me scout out his tech. Observers are best at finding their armies and hallucinations are quite useful for many things.Quote:
Originally Posted by TychusFindlay
Protoss has the hardest time scouting because the Hallucination is underused.Quote:
Originally Posted by TychusFindlay
Also, Zerg can easily shift their unit composition because the race itself is like that. They are reactive race, they are reacting differently vs. every unit you have. Their units are a bit different from the units of other races.
Unlike other races, Zerg can't just make a few units from one kind and be good with it(except for Infestors), where if I go Mutas, Terran needs 1-2 Thors with his Marines, Marauders and Medics. If I go Banelings, he could go with 3-4 Siege Tanks, and try to snipe them, one Banshee can do enormous damage to the economy if it isn't scouted, or if the player hide the tech. Protoss also can succeed with 2-3 Immortals/Archons/Colossi/Void Rays etc.
I also wanted to say that Terran and Protoss has army that is built in every game, while Zerg doesn't. Terran is always going for Marines, Marauders, Tanks and Medivacs, while Protoss is always going for Stalkers, Zealots, Sentries and mostly Colossi. These army compositions can defend from everything that Zerg throws at them, of course you can add few different units to be really good vs. some type, for example few Thors/Phoenixes for Mutas, but that is it.
On the other hand, if I see Terran going for Drops, I have to go for Mutas, because it is pretty hard to defend with other units from drops. If I see Hellions, I have to go for Roaches, same vs. mech, if I see massing Marines, I have to go for Infestors/Banelings.
Zerg can be like that in Endgame, where Brood Lords, Infestors, Roaches and Lings can defeat basically everything, and that is why you see all of the Zerg rushing to the hive tech. In the middle game, the Zerg is playing on mobility card, because their units aren't as strong.
I want to say that I am not a pro player, and this shouldn't be really taken as a fact, but more like how things look from my angle. There a lot of other factors that change the outcome of the battle like micro, positioning, macro etc.
@RamiZ: Never thought differently :D
True, but you can usually tell just as well what another race is going by whats NOT in their base. So, it's all basically the same. Zerg needing Creep isn't really that big of a deal.Quote:
Zerg need creep to build their stuff. It is harder for them to hide their Tech.
Some random interview with DB:
Shit guys, abduct + neural parasite. You pull a colossus into your own army and can take it over while keeping your infestors out of the range of the rest of the protoss army.
You would need more casters to pull that off and that might harm your unit composition. It will help hard macro players on the lower ladder, but it might not be as op in the pro-level. Terrans have EMP to punish caster heavy armies and Protoss have cloak and blink Stalkers for sniping Vipers and mass recall to regroup. I'd say those are but a few things I have to say about the Zerg ability combos not being OP, but I'm pretty sure they will nerf zerg combos during the beta.Quote:
Originally Posted by MulletBen
While vikings are an OK answer overall, its only one unit-type witch makes for a quite predictable and inflexible composition; ground units cant help out unless the tempests are assaulting from open ground, ravens can only offer support through PDD if the tempests are supported by primarily phoenixes.Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Blade
BC's may be of some use, pending damage-specialization on the tempest (high bonus to massive?) and any speed-buffing ability on the BC.
No splash though, right?Quote:
Originally Posted by Aldrius
... witch that insane range i cant see the damage being that high either. This raises the question of health-rgain to mitigate small scale tempest bombardment; auto repair and to a lesser extent transfuse could offset the whole damage output of one or more tempests with relative ease (especially if they target buildings or the highest HP units)
... If this is the case the protoss players will frequently want to hit a certain mark of say 3 tempests to be able to outweigh the helth-regain of the oponent to guarantee kills.
You forgot feedback on high templars. If you're not careful, your vipers and infestors can be killed just with feedback alone. I've killed medivacs before with just feedback. Course I do believe they had taken some damage, but had yellow hp.Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Blade
I do believe Tempests do have splash, but it takes them 6 seconds to fire again. Plus they cost 300 minerals, and 300 gas to produce one. If you aren't careful you can just be wasting money and losing your tempests. Corruptors and vikings will easily be able to take care of Tempests. Plus the Zerg with the viper can pull Tempests towards them. With how games normally go, terrans and zergs usually get corruptors and vikings for the collsi. That makes tempests harder to use without getting killed, unless you use the oracle.Quote:
Originally Posted by Todie
That makes me concerned though with how a protoss should build. should a deathball now have less blink stalker and more voidrays to contend with viking/corruptors?
Well, well, well, let's see. Of all the new units only some seem to be having a real impact on the way the game will change.
1. Terrans get the no-brainer, 200 damage AOE "banelling" landmine with ground and air damage. Cool concept but looks like it will have to be nerfed bigtime, or it will just ruin any possible attack or defence with heavy (and costy) units. We say the widows used offensively vs the zerg.
2. Zerg get the perfect breaker of the deathball and siege/defense line, I think abduct will get nerfed or it will just ruin the only things that work vs the zerg overlow unit production.
3. Zerg also get a cloacked GTA GTG broodlord.
4. Speedy Hydra, common...
5. Toss get another (and rather good) caster, good supporter but supporter nevertheless.
6. Tempest has pathetic DPS, gimme back the (overall underused) carrier.
Looking forward for HoTS ...
I wouldn't call it a "no-brainer". The terran player wasted a bunch of mines in the Battle Report too against cheap units. (And lost as well.)Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter_I
I think that's fine. Zerg have trouble using ground against entrenched positions. Only ultralisks are any good at that, and they die fast to siege tanks.Quote:
2. Zerg get the perfect breaker of the deathball and siege/defense line, I think abduct will get nerfed or it will just ruin the only things that work vs the zerg overlow unit production.
Yeah. You shouldn't have to go air.Quote:
3. Zerg also get a cloacked GTA GTG broodlord.
Hydras have a high cost per hit point. (They do very good damage, no complaints there, but they're also the tech level of the mutalisk.)Quote:
4. Speedy Hydra, common...
It's astonishingly good. David Kim was saying in an interview they might give an audio warning anytime it shuts down minerals. (The zerg player might not have noticed simply due to being busy, whereas if the protoss player had snuck some Dark Templar into his base, he'd have known and fast.)Quote:
5. Toss get another (and rather good) caster, good supporter but supporter nevertheless.
I don't see why Blizzard couldn't just modify the carrier. I'm not sure why it's worse than in StarCraft I, but I think it has something to do with interceptor targeting/repairing.Quote:
6. Tempest has pathetic DPS, gimme back the (overall underused) carrier.
I genuinely believe creating different kinds of interceptor, as they'd experimented with in Alpha WoL, would be a good idea.
Im wondering if everything gets alittle too caster heavy.
What are we averaging now? Like, two casters per race? No, that's not right. Protoss get three casters (HT, Oracle, Mothership), Zerg gets two (Viper, Infestor), and Terran get one (Ghost)?
Wait, is that really what it works out to? OH! No, the Raven still exists. I just hardly ever see it. Why don't they give the anti-mech missle thing to the Raven? Or, as I stated in another thread, turn it into an expensive upgrade for the Siege Tank.
Terrans have: Ghost and Raven
Zerg have: Queens, Infestors and Vipers
Protoss have: Sentry, High Templar, Oracle and Mothership
I used to never see Defilers in SCBW. Not a fault of the game, I was just playing trash. Puzzling how that works out, eh?Quote:
No, the Raven still exists. I just hardly ever see it.
I also find it ironic that you mentioned the Mothership (the least used caster) and not the Sentry (probably the most used caster). Also, Zerg technically have/had Overseers which could possibly be considered casters.
When you think about it though, it kinda makes sense for the Terrans to have less casters than the other races given how micro intensive their army is. virtually all of their units have some kind of activated ability. In a sense, almost all of them could possibly be thought of as 'casters'. Another dedicated spell unit might be redundant if you look at it like that.
I wasn't aware A-moving Marauders was considered micro.Quote:
Originally Posted by phazonjunkie
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-F9VWUgt6dG...+let+it+go.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by DemolitionSquid
Oh damn, I did miss the Sentry. I guess the reason I didn't mention it was because it -is- in every match-up. It HAS to be used by the Protoss, simply because it is so crucial to their tactics.
And while I do like added abilities and upgrades (Ultra Charge should be quite expensive, IMO), too many of them is just not... a good idea. Starcraft differentiates from Warcraft 3 in a number of ways, but one that comes to mind is the much smaller amount of abilities/casts.
http://cdn1.fiverrcdn.com/photos/452...jpg?1318638782Quote:
it kinda makes sense for the Terrans to have less casters than the other races given how micro intensive their army is.
http://static8.businessinsider.com/i...ve-another.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by TychusFindlay
Quote:
Originally Posted by Visions of Khas
True, Zerg and it's superb ability. Zerg is still the best race for me, roaches are my favorite unit and I go them nearly every game.