Re: An idea I think could be interesting for campaign.
Quote:
Pandonetho
You speak of people playing single player for lore, but tell me this:
Lorewise, why would the zerg suddenly start losing control of their units when an overlord died? I didn't happen before in SC1, and its not gonna happen now.
As Supersonic already stated, it also doesn't make sense that an overlord that dies OVER zerg units causes them to go beserk, but an overlord that dies on the otherside of the map does not.
Just my 2 cents,
Gameplay mechanics. You can't HAVE an overlord "on the other side of the planet" in the game, because that's just the way it's played, so it's merely simulated.
Also, I may have been wrong about the going berserk part, but overlords obviously are required for controlling your swarm.
Obviously, you need more overlords to provide more control. I already posted a quote directly from Daggoth where he said that overlords are required for control.
You know what else didn't happen in SC1? Battlecruisers unloading Wraiths, does that mean that doesn't happen in lore? Using the logic that "it didn't happen in SC1" is flawed.
Clearly, the underlying concept behind the idea is that something should happen when you kill overlords, just to make the gameplay a bit interesting.
Re: An idea I think could be interesting for campaign.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Shadow Archon
When the Psi Disruptor was used, some of them went neutral while some stay active(but not controled.). When there was no Overmind, they were wild animals that attacked anything nearby.
Also, in Broodwar, there is one mission where all you have is an SCV with a Psi-Emitter, no Overlords.
Nope. If that's the mission where you assaulted the Psi Disruptor, you had to build Overlords. The SCV with the Psi-Emitter just attracted wild Zerg to your brood.
But hey, I like this idea. It wouldn't work for a bash-em mash-em assault, where you both have bases, they have their hill, and you want that hill because the Psi-Boombox (Radio Not-Free Zerg) is under it. But it would work for crawler missions where neither side has bases and Overlords can only be replenished so fast.
Think along the lines of the first Protoss Mission in Brood War.
Now, killing the Overlords shouldn't bring about docility or cause Zergling squads to rip themselves to pieces.
But say you're trying to cross a couple of blocks in a ruined city with a ragtag band of Marines and Reapers. If you try to cut across the rubble of a football stadium, you will incur the full wrath of a dozen Hydras and more Zerglings, overseen by several Overlords.
However, if you kill one Overlord, nothing happens. Two Overlords, and the Zerglings and Hydras split up into different camps (Maybe the two species don't coexist all that well) All three overlords are killed, and they become more aggressive, BUT LESS COORDINATED. They'll see you and attack from a longer distance, but they won't attack as a group. Three zerglings at a time, or something like that. And they won't pursue.
Boom. You have just turned an ambush that would have slaughtered all of your Marines into something you can walk around with care. Of course, if you take too much time, more Overlords will show up, and maybe some Mutas will drop by to investigate. But a feature like this could add more immersiveness (Just added to Webster's Dictionary) to a level. Combined with having to choose your path through the city, avoiding patrolling Mutalisks, and accessing computer terminals to create distractions or open roadblocks, and this is a level that I'd EASILY play through multiple times.:cool:
Re: An idea I think could be interesting for campaign.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pandonetho
Gameplay mechanics. You can't HAVE an overlord "on the other side of the planet" in the game, because that's just the way it's played, so it's merely simulated.
Also, I may have been wrong about the going berserk part, but overlords obviously are required for controlling your swarm.
Obviously, you need more overlords to provide more control. I already posted a quote directly from Daggoth where he said that overlords are required for control.
You know what else didn't happen in SC1? Battlecruisers unloading Wraiths, does that mean that doesn't happen in lore? Using the logic that "it didn't happen in SC1" is flawed.
Clearly, the underlying concept behind the idea is that something should happen when you kill overlords, just to make the gameplay a bit interesting.
Battlecruisers unloading wraiths DOES happen in lore, therefore I would be perfectly okay with them implementing it into the game. However, overlords dying and causing zerg to go beserk does NOT happen in lore (unless blizzard decides to add it overnight), therefore it doesn't make sense... See my point?
Re: An idea I think could be interesting for campaign.
Quote:
Battlecruisers unloading wraiths DOES happen in lore, therefore I would be perfectly okay with them implementing it into the game. However, overlords dying and causing zerg to go beserk does NOT happen in lore (unless blizzard decides to add it overnight), therefore it doesn't make sense... See my point?
That's why I made an amendment to my idea. Instead of going berserk then, Quirel's idea would work just fine.
The fact of the matter is, overlords help to control the Zerg broods.
Quote:
When the zerg first arrived in the Koprulu sector, they were unified by their absolute obedience to the zerg collective sentience known as the Overmind. The Overmind ultimately directed the actions of every zerg creature in the Swarm, functioning through a hierarchy of lesser sentiences. The first and most important tier of these consisted of the cerebrates, each entrusted with direct control of a sizable section of the Swarm. The cerebrates' commands were disseminated in turn by the overlords, which directly ordered and controlled the mass of zerg creatures both in their nests and on the battlefield.
Now if you get rid of the overlords, what do you think would happen? Nothing? No, because overlords helped control the masses of Zerg creatures. At least something should happen. I like Quirel's idea.
Re: An idea I think could be interesting for campaign.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pandonetho
Gameplay mechanics. You can't HAVE an overlord "on the other side of the planet" in the game, because that's just the way it's played, so it's merely simulated.
Also, I may have been wrong about the going berserk part, but overlords obviously are required for controlling your swarm.
Obviously, you need more overlords to provide more control. I already posted a quote directly from Daggoth where he said that overlords are required for control.
You know what else didn't happen in SC1? Battlecruisers unloading Wraiths, does that mean that doesn't happen in lore? Using the logic that "it didn't happen in SC1" is flawed.
Clearly, the underlying concept behind the idea is that something should happen when you kill overlords, just to make the gameplay a bit interesting.
Right, something should happen if overlords die... imagine you kill them all...
what happens??? Zerg cannot morph more units
Quote:
Originally Posted by Overmind
"Stand more overlords"
Isn't that annoying enough?
Now for campaign... I don't think AI can cheat that...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pandonetho
That's why I made an amendment to my idea. Instead of going berserk then, Quirel's idea would work just fine.
The fact of the matter is, overlords help to control the Zerg broods.
Now if you get rid of the overlords, what do you think would happen? Nothing? No, because overlords helped control the masses of Zerg creatures. At least something should happen. I like Quirel's idea.
Well done, the berserk part wasn't very logical.
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Originally Posted by
Josue
I don't think that (if an overlord dies), taking control from other overlord is a process that takes longer than miliseconds...
So you're reducing the control therefore the zerg can't have more units in battleground...
The question is: what more could you possibly ask for???
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Originally Posted by
Quirel
[...]
it would work for crawler missions where neither side has bases and Overlords can only be replenished so fast.
Think along the lines of the first Protoss Mission in Brood War.
Now, killing the Overlords shouldn't bring about docility or cause Zergling squads to rip themselves to pieces.
But say you're trying to cross a couple of blocks in a ruined city with a ragtag band of Marines and Reapers. If you try to cut across the rubble of a football stadium, you will incur the full wrath of a dozen Hydras and more Zerglings, overseen by several Overlords.
However, if you kill one Overlord, nothing happens. Two Overlords, and the Zerglings and Hydras split up into different camps (Maybe the two species don't coexist all that well) All three overlords are killed, and they become more aggressive, BUT LESS COORDINATED. They'll see you and attack from a longer distance, but they won't attack as a group. Three zerglings at a time, or something like that. And they won't pursue.
Boom. You have just turned an ambush that would have slaughtered all of your Marines into something you can walk around with care. Of course, if you take too much time, more Overlords will show up, and maybe some Mutas will drop by to investigate. But a feature like this could add more immersiveness (Just added to Webster's Dictionary) to a level. Combined with having to choose your path through the city, avoiding patrolling Mutalisks, and accessing computer terminals to create distractions or open roadblocks, and this is a level that I'd EASILY play through multiple times.:cool:
Quirel's idea of making Zerg strategies less effective in "crawler missions" sounds logical... but... how to implement it? Maybe the Galaxy editor holds the answer...
Re: An idea I think could be interesting for campaign.
Josue, do you not understand the fact that the Zerg don't use food in the campaign besides skirmish missions? If you do, then you'd understand the fact that your whole argument about how making the Zerg not able to spawn units was pointless.
Re: An idea I think could be interesting for campaign.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Quirel
Nope. If that's the mission where you assaulted the Psi Disruptor, you had to build Overlords. The SCV with the Psi-Emitter just attracted wild Zerg to your brood.
But hey, I like this idea. It wouldn't work for a bash-em mash-em assault, where you both have bases, they have their hill, and you want that hill because the Psi-Boombox (Radio Not-Free Zerg) is under it. But it would work for crawler missions where neither side has bases and Overlords can only be replenished so fast.
Think along the lines of the first Protoss Mission in Brood War.
Now, killing the Overlords shouldn't bring about docility or cause Zergling squads to rip themselves to pieces.
But say you're trying to cross a couple of blocks in a ruined city with a ragtag band of Marines and Reapers. If you try to cut across the rubble of a football stadium, you will incur the full wrath of a dozen Hydras and more Zerglings, overseen by several Overlords.
However, if you kill one Overlord, nothing happens. Two Overlords, and the Zerglings and Hydras split up into different camps (Maybe the two species don't coexist all that well) All three overlords are killed, and they become more aggressive, BUT LESS COORDINATED. They'll see you and attack from a longer distance, but they won't attack as a group. Three zerglings at a time, or something like that. And they won't pursue.
Boom. You have just turned an ambush that would have slaughtered all of your Marines into something you can walk around with care. Of course, if you take too much time, more Overlords will show up, and maybe some Mutas will drop by to investigate. But a feature like this could add more immersiveness (Just added to Webster's Dictionary) to a level. Combined with having to choose your path through the city, avoiding patrolling Mutalisks, and accessing computer terminals to create distractions or open roadblocks, and this is a level that I'd EASILY play through multiple times.:cool:
You control some units at the beginning with no overlord. It does sound like a good idea, but I still think Killing an Overlord will have a limited affect if any.
Re: An idea I think could be interesting for campaign.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pandonetho
That's why I made an amendment to my idea. Instead of going berserk then, Quirel's idea would work just fine.
The fact of the matter is, overlords help to control the Zerg broods.
Now if you get rid of the overlords, what do you think would happen? Nothing? No, because overlords helped control the masses of Zerg creatures. At least something should happen. I like Quirel's idea.
Queens probably have something to do with the communication as well. When an Overlord dies, it possibly could send the orders that overlord was giving to a nearby one, therefore killing Overlords a moot point.
Here is how I see it:
The "Line of Control" can be disrupted by killing Cerebrates.
The "Wave of Control" can not be disrupted by killing Queens and Overlords.
They can both be disrupted by devices like the Psi Disruptor however.
Re: An idea I think could be interesting for campaign.
Okay, so the Attached Image is a little fuzzy.
Top Circle= Overmind
Second Circles= Cerebrates
Third Circles= Queens
Fourth Circles= Overlords.
The Lines= Line of control
The waves= Wave of control
Re: An idea I think could be interesting for campaign.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pandonetho
Josue, do you not understand the fact that the Zerg don't use food in the campaign besides skirmish missions? If you do, then you'd understand the fact that your whole argument about how making the Zerg not able to spawn units was pointless.
Allright. With "skirmish mission" you mean normal missions where CPU AI has a base as well as the player... right?
if it's not a skirmish mission then Quirel's idea sounds interesting and logical,
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Josue
[...]
Quirel's idea of making Zerg strategies less effective in "crawler missions" sounds logical... but... how to implement it? Maybe the Galaxy editor holds the answer...
that's what I meant. Otherwise my argument was pointless.
