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Originally Posted by Pandonetho
He clearly says 1+ seconds, he also says its incredibly hard against fast moving units, and its like a guessing game. The guessing game part is where I still believe the luck factor comes into things...Quote:
Originally Posted by TL NET THREAD
If they kill your HTs before the animation is finished, how in the hell can you blanket an area with smartcast?
No need for doubt; it simply isn't there. That's what rules like "no rush" and so forth are for. Rushing is something that takes far more skill to defend than to execute. As an asymmetric technique, it tends to both push people to get better and keep people from bothering to play the game. One kind of person goes one way, the other kind goes the other.Quote:
I highly doubt the "perfect" balance is there for casuals.
Yeah, don't bother to present any evidence for that or something. Just make the claim; that's good enough :rolleyes:Quote:
Well you'd be assuming wrong, as its clear from all of nicol's arguments that he knows absolutely nothing about the pro scene.
The reason we even bother to play games is due to uncertainty over what the opponent is going to do. IE: Guessing Games. Imperfect knowledge of the outcome is crucial to making a viable game.Quote:
He clearly says 1+ seconds, he also says its incredibly hard against fast moving units, and its like a guessing game.
Being hard to use against fast-moving units is perfectly legitimate. Fast-moving units are also the ones most likely to have lower HP, and thus are more susceptible to Psi Storm.
Yes, you will need to learn to predict where your enemy's units will be. If you can't learn this skill, to quickly predict where to place your storms based on an enemy's movement, then you can't use Psi Storm.
As to the specific number, what matters more than anything is that the delay is there. That it was put there (ie: wasn't there before); it is a designed element added to the game. Which means that it is subject to balance. It will be tweaked as time passes. The delay is a feature; how big of a delay is negotiable.
This is starting to get off topic (though technically, the Psi Storm topic is off topic), but my point is that you can rely on real mechanisms rather than route busywork to achieve the ability to out compete the opponent economically.Quote:
There were some bad things about the SC1 macro system but there were also allot of good things. Being able to out compete the opponent economically definatly equals good.
The delay for Psionic Storm is unnecessary. I'm assuming the intent of Blizzard is to enable all abilities enough to where they see fair use in a sizeable amount of games, so they must play the balancing act of making the niche for these support abilities large but nonencroaching. Since this 1s delay is neither adding gameplay nor creating space for additional niches, its balancing properties are no different than that of changing the area, damage, or energy cost, but has the added side effect of reducing player input. The spell already is a commitment of energy to a location, adding a delay neither makes the commitment more valuable, nor does it help with the pacing of the game.
There's a difference between predicting the actions of your opponent and being clairvoyant of them. Prediction is more nested in general strategy where you've already predicted the opponents moves by making the vulnerable HT in the first place, why should every skirmish and tactic revolve around more prediction? Because SC2 wants to move beyond what SC1 had to offer, enabling all abilities to see substantial use would be an achievement worth striving for, and anything that compromises the use of an ability on the professional level with nothing to give back in return doesn't seem like the best idea for their design philosophy.
WOW! Wait a second! Do you realize that Psi Storm costs energy, and that HT cost a shitload of gas??? Seriously guys, you act like smart casting allows you to just bath all the enemy forces in Psi Storm. Even if you can do that once (using all your HT's energy), adding a delay won't stop that from happening, while needing more time to deal the same damage (or less) would help a lot to dodge it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rake
Also, Storm always had a small cooldown. Even with smart casting, that cooldown could be a much more happy balancing element than crippling the player's ability to hit something.
WOW! Wait a second! Do you realize that you can easily cast 4 psi storms in a larger aoe and it isn't as big of a deal as you're making it out to be?Quote:
WOW! Wait a second! Do you realize that Psi Storm costs energy, and that HT cost a shitload of gas???
Jesus, it's like you've never seen it happen in SC1 or something. Go watch Jangbi storm the shit out of a Terran player.
I heard that you had to cast Psi-Storm while you were still in the pre-game chat lobby for it to take effect in the 19th minute of the demo games @ blizzcon. Let's everyone take a deep breath and wait to see some footage/confirmation. Seems like the naysayers are of the impression that this delay is very very very long. How about we wait till we get some more info - then start throwing rocks again.
Well regardless of whether the delay is 0.1s or 20,000s, there is no advantage at any point to implement it. Different is not better, better is better.Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceman_jkh
Bro if they're clicking randomly to dodge it's not something you can predict.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicol Bolas
Yeah but they cant predict either where will you cast the storm, beside 2 HTs can cast 8 storms(or 6), and Let me see if you can dodge that when it takes about half of the battlefield or more...Quote:
Originally Posted by deadlock
My point is, 1 sec delay is bad only if you have very little of HTs with no energy, but when you are able to cast more then 4 Storms, that are even stronger then in SC1, with smart casting, 1 sec delay isnt big deal at all.
Lets for this example say there are only 8 directions a person can run to dodge. That gives the dodger a 7/8th(87.5%) chance of not getting hit, while there is a 1/8th(12.5%) chance of you choosing the correct direction casting psi-storm.Quote:
Originally Posted by RamiZ
I think I like the odds of being able to dodge a lot better than the odds of being able to hit.
Do you realize that the Protoss have a building that can give HTs energy? Freshly built HTs can start out with full energy.Quote:
WOW! Wait a second! Do you realize that Psi Storm costs energy, and that HT cost a shitload of gas???
Except of course for the advantages that have been pointed out several times in this thread.Quote:
Well regardless of whether the delay is 0.1s or 20,000s, there is no advantage at any point to implement it.
If they're clicking randomly to dodge, they're not, you know, attacking. So your units already have an advantage.Quote:
Bro if they're clicking randomly to dodge it's not something you can predict.
Yeah when they fight on open area, they have chance to dodge it, otherwise when they fight at ramp, or map is full of chokes, 2 Psi Storms cant be dodged and about more then 4 I dont want to talk about. And as Nicol said it, if you are dodging it, you are not attacking. You are already in advantage. And many units of yours will die even if you did dodge Psi Storm with most of them. Its all on the paper, in game is a lot different...Quote:
Originally Posted by Santrega
You must be speaking of a different thread, because all I see here is excuses for why it doesn't completely suck, not reasons why it's a better alternative.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicol Bolas
To be perfectly honest, I don't really see why this is something worth arguing over. It's soooooo easy to fix if it's a problem, no?
making it so you can spam storms over the battlefield is a pretty lame way to balance this mechanic really.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicol Bolas
they can kite you, attack and dodge ad infinitum. a few people have said how easy it is to lose templars to mutalisks now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicol Bolas
I'll have to remember to ask the blues about this today.
anyway
1 base vs 1 base zerg cannot win, it's impossible due to the saturation of the mineral, when u saturate your mineral u get an advantage(thanks to the queen) of 5-7 workers...then u have no advantage when i also reached the saturation, It would be like trying to produce from 8 rax with one base...so if i make a tough wall with depot and rax and u can't destroy even if u have a superior army...and then when i also reached the sturation, we become equeal
Making Psi Storm situational rather than "always a good idea" is making it better.Quote:
You must be speaking of a different thread, because all I see here is excuses for why it doesn't completely suck, not reasons why it's a better alternative.
It should be pointed out that half-hitting with a Psi Storm is still hitting with it. They're not able to avoid all possible Storm damage.Quote:
they can kite you, attack and dodge ad infinitum.
And again, if you're in a choke point, there's no dodging.
Maybe those "few people" need to build something to protect their Templar. Like Phoenixes. You know, units that can go and hunt down those Mutalisks?Quote:
a few people have said how easy it is to lose templars to mutalisks now.
This isn't StarCraft 1 anymore. You're going to have to learn how to cope with different things.
Um, you've got it backwards. The ability to spam storms is balanced by the delay time. That is, if you remove one, you remove the other.Quote:
making it so you can spam storms over the battlefield is a pretty lame way to balance this mechanic really.
I really wish people would stop throwing BS out there that has been beaten down so many times. There are many abilities, in SC1 and SC2, that have a delay between the moment of cast and the start of the effect.Quote:
abilities should never be delayed between the moment of the cast and the start of the effect.
I still fail to see the point of the people against this delay.
It does not in whatsoever in ANY way increase chances for an oppponent to dodge, or are you saying that opponents can suddenly see where storm is being casted before it takes effect?
It requires more skill to use it now actually, as it's not just a reaction point and click ability that you use immediately 10 pixels away from a moving army. Instead you'll have to take into account the different movement speeds of opposing units and place the storm accordingly.
And what are you reasons for why it does suck? All I read is "cry cry something changed, now I'm going to make invalid excuses about it being A) harder to use (omfg really?) B) Easier for the opponent to dodge (lol what an excuse) C) some made up law about how "abilities should not have delays" without any basis for the claim except for the invalid reasons A and B.Quote:
You must be speaking of a different thread, because all I see here is excuses for why it doesn't completely suck, not reasons why it's a better alternative.
Do you even read what you type? This makes no sense whatsoever, Nicol already pointed it out.Quote:
making it so you can spam storms over the battlefield is a pretty lame way to balance this mechanic really.
You're just being hyperbolic. Psi Storm was always extremely situational because of its nature. you could destroy your entire army with the wrong usage of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicol Bolas
I really wish you'd see that you're the one throwing around BS. A spammable ability with a 1s delay is not better than a carefully calculated placement of fewer storms. Why should we balance around this terrible idea like it's the status quo? We're still in alpha, anything goes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicol Bolas
Your arguments are getting weaker with each post. Since when has anyone EVER destroyed their own army with storm? You'd literally have to be an absolute complete noob or a retard to do that.Quote:
You're just being hyperbolic. Psi Storm was always extremely situational because of its nature. you could destroy your entire army with the wrong usage of it.
Do you even know what you're talking about? The Obelisk's ability first of all is not a way to balance storm. Second of all, storm was always spammable in SC1. The delay actually makes the player think for a sec about where they want to place it.How is removing the delay going to make people place storms using more calculations? Your logic is screwed.Quote:
I really wish you'd see that you're the one throwing around BS. A spammable ability with a 1s delay is not better than a carefully calculated placement of fewer storms. Why should we balance around this terrible idea like it's the status quo? We're still in alpha, anything goes.
Your ad homs are as pathetic as your bandwagoning, so don't quit your day job. I was just giving an example. Psionic Storm is situational, to say otherwise is completely and utterly retarded. You need a mass of units not in transit that's nowhere near your own units in order for it be worth all that gas.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pandonetho
Storm was never spammable in SC1. You were limited to 2-3 storms per HT if you were lucky and you had to make sure you made damn use of them before they got sniped rather easily. Maybe in the fastest maps you played you could do whatever the hell you wanted.
The removal of the delay brings back more correspondence of your decision making to the spell itself. "I want the storm here, now" is a much more definitive representation of your will than an artificial 1s cast time based on the projection of what the opponent's going to do in this omnidirectional field. Since it's more precise, it's more calculated, end of story.
Making the storm more numerous but balancing it with a delay is essentially debasing the strategic component of storm and doing the exact opposite of what you guys are arguing for. At least I'm not contradicting myself.
If you guys want artificially induced lag and extra high latency, go play B.net 1.0 for God's sakes.
Do you even know what ad hominem is? lol use a dictionary next time. Bandwagoning? You're more retarded than I thought.Quote:
Your ad homs are as pathetic as your bandwagoning, so don't quit your day job.
An extremely shitty example if I ever saw it, so shitty that your example is invalid because it never happens.Quote:
was just giving an example.
lol says the guy who provides a shitty example with no other evidence to back up his claim.Quote:
Psionic Storm is situational, to say otherwise is completely and utterly retarded.
Yeah, right. Storm is used on many units that move including every god damn Zerg unit that there is, vultures, and PvP battles. It can be used for almost every battle situation that you're in, go ahead and prove otherwise.Quote:
You need a mass of units not in transit that's nowhere near your own units in order for it be worth all that gas.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1u_tBTS3CE8Quote:
Storm was never spammable in SC1.
Your point? You're still limited to that amount in SC2 unless you're near an obelisk, which is 200 minerals and most certainly almost always going to be by your mineral line. I don't get how you think storm is more spammable in SC2, you have no proof to back up that claim. Not only that, with the trend that gas is harder to attain, HTs won't be as spammed as in SC1. And even if they are easily sniped in SC1, what's changed about that in SC2? Absolutely nothing.Quote:
You were limited to 2-3 storms per HT if you were lucky and you had to make sure you made damn use of them before they got sniped rather easily.
Nice bullshit. "Oh look enemies here, click" is not more calculated than "how far do I have to place the storm to hit those moving enemies at the right time."Quote:
The removal of the delay brings back more correspondence of your decision making to the spell itself. "I want the storm here, now" is a much more definitive representation of your will than an artificial 1s cast time based on the projection of what the opponent's going to do in this omnidirectional field. Since it's more precise, it's more calculated, end of story.
Oh right, I love your proof for where you suddenly got the idea for where storm is more numerous. Let's see, there was a cooldown introduced for storm, gas is harder to get, an obelisk will transfer up to 1 HT at most for maximum energy, and is going to be near your mineral line nowhere near the battlefield. And you're saying it's going to be more numerous? You're an idiot, you don't even know what you're talking about.Quote:
Making the storm more numerous but balancing it with a delay is essentially debasing the strategic component of storm and doing the exact opposite of what you guys are arguing for. At least I'm not contradicting myself.
Yes because a delay is exactly the same as lag and high latency.Quote:
If you guys want artificially induced lag and extra high latency, go play B.net 1.0 for God's sakes.
nobody's claiming that it will be impossible to hit anything ever with a delayed storm. it will be easier for the attacker though and makes storming too reactive (you have to wait for them to stop dodging)Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicol Bolas
Well why bother with HTs thenQuote:
Originally Posted by Nicol Bolas
oh absolutely, i don't even think we should bring storm back, let's get something new. btw i never played sc competitively, i've only ever taken wc seriously at allQuote:
Originally Posted by Nicol Bolas
how does that balance it? if you're spamming storms you're spamming them and not looking where you're casting, and delay time becomes mostly irrelevant because you're trying to hit all locations (wherever they dodge to, they will be hit by a storm).Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicol Bolas
Yeah but with most of them it's not possible to miss after you cast them. I think its comparable to trying to counter dryads with siege in WC3, it's certainly possible, but the fact that the attack is dodgeable means that a skilled microer won't take much damage at all from siege unless you keep him busy (and dryads can kite effectively).Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicol Bolas
Wow, where are people GETTING this from? Please, instead of making blind claims EXPLAIN how it will be easier for the attacker? Are you saying he's going to know where you're going to storm? Are you saying that when he attacks he's going to constantly be moving instead of shooting? Which might I add, is NOT ATTACKING, it's called MOVING while getting owned by enemy troops. Second of all, no, you DON'T have to wait till they stop moving, you just have to time where they're going to move. People are making way too big of a damn deal about this. Predicting where they will move is not impossible unless the person moving his units is a retard and moving his units in a nonpredictable and non-beneficial way. What, is he going to move his hydras up then down then down some more and then left and then right? No. Christ.Quote:
nobody's claiming that it will be impossible to hit anything ever with a delayed storm. it will be easier for the attacker though and makes storming too reactive (you have to wait for them to stop dodging)
Are you serious? Are you just complaining because something changed? Because this is a pathetic argument. People build HT to I don't know, storm masses of ground units that the Phoenix can't hit? Make use of the new improved hallucination? Use phase shift? Whatever.Quote:
Well why bother with HTs then
Clearly you don't understand the concept of smartcasting or magic boxes. Secondly, spamming storms is a BAD idea with the reports that people have been giving about gas difficulty, and the delay is definitely not something that makes you want to spam storm. Use some logic please.Quote:
how does that balance it? if you're spamming storms you're spamming them and not looking where you're casting, and delay time becomes mostly irrelevant because you're trying to hit all locations (wherever they dodge to, they will be hit by a storm).
And yet this complaint is really only relevant to those who just don't like an ounce of change. Does anyone want to kindly point me to the law book where making a spell use a delay is against the Law? That making the spell that much more effective in the hands of a skilled player against the Law? That a new game can't do things differently?Quote:
Yeah but with most of them it's not possible to miss after you cast them. I think its comparable to trying to counter dryads with siege in WC3, it's certainly possible, but the fact that the attack is dodgeable means that a skilled microer won't take much damage at all from siege unless you keep him busy (and dryads can kite effectively).
Oh damn, I couldnt stop laughing at this.Quote:
Storm was never spammable in SC1. You were limited to 2-3 storms per HT if you were lucky and you had to make sure you made damn use of them before they got sniped rather easily.
You're hurt, I understand. But what you don't understand is that this delay does nothing for that lack of variety problem. I've been saying it's been situational as a tactic. If you want more varied strategy, retarding the abilities reaction speed is not going to change the niche it occupies. Nobody listens to my first argument. This tweak does nothing outside of the usual damage nerf or energy nerf but has the added element of being more frustrating.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pandonetho
Guessing games is not more calculative, sorry. There's no way to anticipate which direction an army will move when they see those HTs, no matter how calculative you think you are.
It's simple really. You guys keep saying it's more storms balanced by high delay. Low energy cost, high delay, and internal cooldown means that you use the storm as often as possible to get that CD back up. It breaks harass attempts and you can technically just cycle through a few HTs to continually keep someone at bay. It's lame. The SC1 model was far better for all intents and purposes.
Is there a distinction between high latency and this? I don't see a beneficial one. High latency is more responsive and at least everything is at that speed.
no but dodging doesn't cost you anything and you can dodge in any direction (storm only has one chance to hit, and if you miss you lose the mana)Quote:
Originally Posted by Pandonetho
nah but it only takes an instant to attack whilst storm has delay+player reaction speed+plus probable lag (let's be realistic fellas)Quote:
Originally Posted by Pandonetho
you mean the HTs with their clumsy delayed storms? because they won't be owning anybody mateQuote:
Originally Posted by Pandonetho
if you're prescient you should play the stock market and not starcraft.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pandonetho
what do you mean non-beneficial? the benefit from dodging is evading the psi-storm. this is facilitated by being "nonpredictable".Quote:
Originally Posted by Pandonetho
why not?Quote:
Originally Posted by Pandonetho
not but i think we all like the idea of a fun, balanced storm. blizzard has to make things FUN for the player first time around, remember that, otherwise the game will flop and nobody will buy the expansions, i'll probably torrent them unless the game amazes me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pandonetho
let's face it, masses of phoenixes will only get fucked up by corruptors
well, elaborate pleaseQuote:
Originally Posted by Pandonetho
so how the fuck are we meant to hit anybody if we don't spam it? it's got a shitty delay that favours the dodger and we can't cast it very often either. it is however very powerful now (is this true?) and potentially gamewinning based on chance. Nice one blizzQuote:
Originally Posted by Pandonetho
i like changing mutalisks into corpses and this won't happen with a shitty stormQuote:
Originally Posted by Pandonetho
i don't get what you're saying here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pandonetho
it can do things however it wants, but i would rather it didn't do them stupidly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pandonetho
EDIT: btw if you and nicol bolas are both going to argue with me can you coordinate your efforts or something so i don't have to do lots of posts. Cheers
Oh yes this is an amazing argument for why the delay is BAD. /sarcasm.Quote:
You're hurt, I understand. But what you don't understand is that this delay does nothing for that lack of variety problem. I've been saying it's been situational as a tactic. If you want more varied strategy, retarding the abilities reaction speed is not going to change the niche it occupies. Nobody listens to my first argument. This tweak does nothing outside of the usual damage nerf or energy nerf but has the added element of being more frustrating.
If you're talking about the situational-ness of storm, arguing that this delay is bad is completely unrelated. Get it through your skull.
Yet another blind claim that SC is just a guessing game. Because it's SO hard to see hydras walking in one direction, and storming in front of them. Guess what? If they're moving, meaning they're getting shot by your units. If they're attacking, they're not moving, meaning it's a chance to use storm. It's not that hard to understand.Quote:
Guessing games is not more calculative, sorry. There's no way to anticipate which direction an army will move when they see those HTs, no matter how calculative you think you are.
Clearly you didn't even read my post, meaning that you're purposely ignoring my points. This shows more than anything you're an idiot.Quote:
It's simple really. You guys keep saying it's more storms balanced by high delay.
Oh you're SO smart! And in SC1, it's low energy, NO cooldown, and NO delay, and that is somehow less spammable?Quote:
Low energy cost, high delay, and internal cooldown means that you use the storm as often as possible to get that CD back up.
It's official, you don't even know what you're talking about.Quote:
It breaks harass attempts and you can technically just cycle through a few HTs to continually keep someone at bay. It's lame. The SC1 model was far better for all intents and purposes.
Responsive? This delay doesn't affect responsiveness at all, it's FIXED.Quote:
Is there a distinction between high latency and this? I don't see one. High latency is more responsive and at least everything is at that speed.
So what? You can dodge in any direction, YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO BE ALLOWED TO DODGE, IS THERE A PROBLEM WITH DODGING?Quote:
no but dodging doesn't cost you anything and you can dodge in any direction (storm only has one chance to hit, and if you miss you lose the mana)
When he attacks, you storm it's that simple. Player reaction isn't slow unless you plain suck hard at this game. Adding a delay or removing the delay does nothing to change player reaction speed or "probable lag" this point is moot.Quote:
nah but it only takes an instant to attack whilst storm has delay+player reaction speed+plus probable lag (let's be realistic fellas)
lol are you just trolling or are you really out of a valid argument? I think your post speaks for itself. I don't think you should ever try to debate again because "lol clumsy delayed storm won't be owning anbody" is hardly a valid point. Second of all, you don't send HTs by themselves are you stupid or something? It's called an army.Quote:
you mean the HTs with their clumsy delayed storms? because they won't be owning anybody mate
Because as I just mentioned, your ARMY is going to be attacking those units which are doing nothing productive but moving randomly.Quote:
why not?
Glad you think you're the all deciding player who decides what's fun or not, give me a break.Quote:
not but i think we all like the idea of a fun, balanced storm. blizzard has to make things FUN for the player first time around, remember that, otherwise the game will flop and nobody will buy the expansions, i'll probably torrent them unless the game amazes me.
Why are you even in this debate if you don't even know simple things such as these? Christ I don't even know why I'm talking to you, convincing you is like trying to convince a pile of flaming shit.Quote:
well, elaborate please
You're meant to hit them by placing storms in the proper place, like how storms were ALWAYS used. It's not based on chance, I can only facepalm at your stupidity.Quote:
so how the fuck are we meant to hit anybody if we don't spam it? it's got a shitty delay that favours the dodger and we can't cast it very often either. it is however very powerful now (is this true?) and potentially gamewinning based on chance. Nice one blizz
A shitty storm? Is that what you call it now? You know nothing about SC1 or SC2 I think I'm through talking to you.Quote:
i like changing mutalisks into corpses and this won't happen with a shitty storm
If I were Nicol I would just stop talking to you. Your arguments and points are hardly valid and you should be immediately banned for even attempting.Quote:
EDIT: btw if you and nicol bolas are both going to argue with me can you coordinate your efforts or something so i don't have to do lots of posts. Cheers
Storm is ok as it is now, the damage intervals have been reduced from 5 seconds to 3 seconds and the storm now covers a much larger size.
If i would have to choose betwen a 5 second storm , or an 3 second storm with an 1 second delay(3+1), i will always take the one with the delay.
And lol at the guy who said that storm was weak in sc1 :p
So???? That's why i'm saying that nerfing the AoE or the damage is a better option!Quote:
Originally Posted by Pandonetho
What the hell are you talking about, boy? First it's about the situational tactics, then it's about how everyone went HTs. How is this not related? It's really simple. ADDING A DELAY TO THE STORM DOES NOTHING TO THE NICHE IT OCCUPIES. Your exalted solution falls flat on its face and pisses off the player base in the process. It's entirely relevant, and just because you want to close your eyes and plug your ears doesn't change that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pandonetho
Yes, because all the armies ever do when they see your army with those HTs is rush headlong into you. We're not balancing the game around retards here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pandonetho
So the delay needs to be variable for it to be not as responsive? That doesn't even make sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pandonetho
You know there's more choices than retarded delay + increased area of effect. Why not increased AoE and reduced damage, or more energy cost and increased area? Why settle for crap?Quote:
Originally Posted by Stardust ★
If by "situational" you mean "The enemy must be in front of my army with not very many of my own troops in the way," then yes.Quote:
Psionic Storm is situational
However, since this situation occurs in every battle that isn't a complete surprise or involves dropping on your own units, no, it's not situational. If the situation is the normal, default state of affairs, if it's the situation you encounter 80% of the time, then it doesn't count as situational.
Psi Storm is generally useful in 80% of combat situations. Hell, most professional Protoss are perfectly willing to have a few of their units caught in it, just to be able to deal more damage to the enemy.
If adding a delay makes it less generally useful, then this is good. Generally useful AoE damage is not a good thing; it puts too much focus on one unit. HTs are still useful, just not as useful. Maybe you want to spend that gas on something else now.
If the only reason to use HTs is instant-cast Psi Storm, then Blizzard has failed.Quote:
Well why bother with HTs then
The exact same argument could be made for unit build times, building construction, Yamato shots, and anything else that takes time to do.Quote:
The removal of the delay brings back more correspondence of your decision making to the spell itself. "I want the storm here, now" is a much more definitive representation of your will than an artificial 1s cast time based on the projection of what the opponent's going to do in this omnidirectional field.
Hell, you could say the exact same thing for Dragoons in SC1: they had a non-trivial delay from being told to attack to the time they actually fired their shot. A delay that often gets them killed by mines.
Small point: Hallucination is on the Disruptor.Quote:
Make use of the new improved hallucination?
The casting time is also a delay between casts. And it's very possible, particularly with smart cast, to spam storms accurately.Quote:
if you're spamming storms you're spamming them and not looking where you're casting, and delay time becomes mostly irrelevant because you're trying to hit all locations (wherever they dodge to, they will be hit by a storm).
Any direction that the terrain allows. If it's narrow terrain, Psi Storm is more effective than if it's open terrain.Quote:
no but dodging doesn't cost you anything and you can dodge in any direction
Then you're a douchebag. Pirating a game just because you don't like what Blizzard has done is decidedly immature, not to mention illegal. Just don't play it.Quote:
i'll probably torrent them unless the game amazes me.
Which means you will have forced them to build Corruptors, and thus they will have fewer resources to build ground units and/or Mutalisks. If you're forcing your opponent to react to you, then you're winning the game.Quote:
let's face it, masses of phoenixes will only get fucked up by corruptors
And you don't need "masses" of Phoenixes to deal with Mutalisks.
Oh, I see. This isn't an objective consideration or reasoned argument; this is you being butthurt over the fact that you can't just Psi Storm all your problems away anymore.Quote:
i like changing mutalisks into corpses and this won't happen with a shitty storm
Who said Blizzard is trying to change its niche? Why do you even want to fucking change its niche? All spells have a Niche, retard.Quote:
What the hell are you talking about, boy? First it's about the situational tactics, then it's about how everyone went HTs. How is this not related? It's really simple. ADDING A DELAY TO THE STORM DOES NOTHING TO THE NICHE IT OCCUPIES. Your exalted solution falls flat on its face and pisses off the player base in the process. It's entirely relevant, and just because you want to close your eyes and plug your ears doesn't change that.
Then how are you going to attack huh? While moving at the same time? Give me a break, do you even know how Starcraft is played? Clearly, you don't. By your definition then, if people aren't supposed to run headling into a battle with HTs in the back, that means people don't ever battle AT ALL in SC.Quote:
Yes, because all the armies ever do when they see your army with those HTs is rush headlong into you. We're not balancing the game around retards here.
First of all I don't know why you're comparing this delay to lag or latency, because clearly it's not meant to screw up a player like lag or latency, which is inconsistent, it's FIXED and controlled. YOU don't make sense.Quote:
So the delay needs to be variable for it to be not as responsive? That doesn't even make sense.
And here we have another post frm you showing that you make shit for sense. First you're talking about expanding on the current niche that storm is in, and with this post your "solutions" don't do that at all. Secondly, you must be a professional to say that the introduced delay is "crap," yes we should all listen to you.Quote:
You know there's more choices than Retarded Delay + Increased Area of Effect. Why not increased AoE and reduced damage, or more energy cost and increased area? Why settle for crap?
Or more like you're just a cry baby who can't handle a little change.
Yes, I'm all for nerfing the storm's niche and nerfing it as the predominant choice against mass armies, but that's easily achievable by less frustrating means. You must make an argument why forcing us to predict the movements of an army with such an extreme disparity (relative to the other delays that are fractions of a second) would provide more varied gameplay and a better experience for everyone.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicol Bolas
no, but there's a problem with a shitty storm that favors the dodger exponentially.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pandonetho
attacking only takes a moment. if the delay is of any significant length at all (to "balance" whatever the hell it is they're trying to balance) and mutalisks are still speedy they'll be on the outskirts of the storm by the time the damn thing actually casts. and adding a delay doesn't change player reaction or lag, but they are cumulative--meaning that after a certain time the dodger will dodge the storm entirely. and adding delay makes it easier for him to do thisQuote:
Originally Posted by Pandonetho
yeah and what exactly is in this mythical "army" we're supposed to be building. and if storm sucks it won't kill any units, that's pure logicQuote:
Originally Posted by Pandonetho
yeah and maybe the zerg has a dozen banelings burrowed under your army. we're talking about storm here don't bring other units into it. besides mutalisks can run away from anything that isn't a phoenix. they're like zombies probably, you have to kill them outright with psi-storm (otherwise they'll corner you in a shopping mall lateR)Quote:
Originally Posted by Pandonetho
Let's face it i am a typical internet user and gamer, i would say i'm fairly representative of the SC2 sales base. basically blizz has to please people like me or their product will fail. simple as thatQuote:
Originally Posted by Pandonetho
i do know what smartcast is (no idea what a magic box is) but i don't really see how i've demonstrated a poor understanding of smartcast in my argumentsQuote:
Originally Posted by Pandonetho
except now the proper place is completely unknowable except to Nostradamus.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pandonetho
i think i've demonstrated pretty clearly why sc2 storm is shitty/Quote:
Originally Posted by Pandonetho
well before the mods get all Dirty Harry on me (which lets face it they probably won't, why would they) hopefully they'll send me a warning or somehting firstQuote:
Originally Posted by Pandonetho
edit: oh yeah and if you just claim victory and walk away you don't win the argument that stops working when you're nine years old
I won't even waste the effort of replying to each retarded point in your post of failure.
There's one point though, that's so exceedling stupid that I have to comment on it.
Quote:
yeah and what exactly is in this mythical "army" we're supposed to be building. and if storm sucks it won't kill any units, that's pure logic
Are you seriously telling me that you build high templars without anything else? So what you're basing your example off of is "giant zerg army vs high templars without army."Quote:
we're talking about storm here don't bring other units into it.
Wow, I'll just leave it at that, maybe you'll eventually figure out what it is that's so stupid about yourself.
Jesus Christ get some reading comprehension. You're saying the problem is that HT was too good of an answer to everything. That means that the niche it occupies is TOO BIG. You must change the niche by MAKING IT SMALLER, not removing it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pandonetho
They bounce back and forth to avoid eachother's seige and abilities and then they attack when the enemy's at their most vulnerable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pandonetho
A controlled and fixed delay is still a delay. That's my point. It doesn't matter to the end user that they're delayed 1s because of lag or delayed 1s because Blizzard put it in the programming. They both have a debilitating effect on the ability. You both come to expect them too, if it's a laggy game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pandonetho
I never said to expand the niche, that's counterproductive. I just think you skim over my sentences or something and write whatever you want. And yes, any form of delay is negative. Lag and high latency has never been a positive experience, so I'm perfectly justified in saying that a nontrivial delay is frustrating.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pandonetho
yeah but what if the units can flyQuote:
Originally Posted by Nicol Bolas
yeah but i'm a poor student on welfare and i would like to check the game out. blizzard won't miss my sale, let's be real here. besides we have an obligation to throw a spanner in the works, if the game's good i'll pay for it properlyQuote:
Originally Posted by Nicol Bolas
well their mutas have forced you to build phoenixes so you're back to square one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicol Bolas
Probably don't need that many corruptors to own phoenix eitherQuote:
Originally Posted by Nicol Bolas
yeah i always enjoyed psi storm. btw Thank you nicol for being somewhat polite in your posts unlike that Pandontheo guyQuote:
Originally Posted by Nicol Bolas
WOW you can't just take a point out of context to criticise that's unfair to your opponent?Quote:
Originally Posted by Pandonetho
no i'm basing it on mutas vs. hts which i think is fairly reasonable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pandonetho
it's like that nirvana song except "you know i'm right"Quote:
Originally Posted by Pandonetho