Observer was in wrong category, thanks for pointing it out.Quote:
Originally Posted by RamiZ
Edit: Upon reviewing the video, I'm comfortable putting Warhound in the Massive category.
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Observer was in wrong category, thanks for pointing it out.Quote:
Originally Posted by RamiZ
Edit: Upon reviewing the video, I'm comfortable putting Warhound in the Massive category.
http://pcmedia.ign.com/pc/image/arti...1020719302.jpgQuote:
I'm comfortable putting Warhound in the Massive category.
From Crota's topic.
Well ain't that interesting. Back to the Borderline we go... for now.Quote:
Originally Posted by MulletBen
Yeah, I just remembered that picture, I still think that they are going to make it massive, Terran has no massive ground units except for Thor but I doubt that we will see much of a new Thor in competitive play.
Just as a thought, do Terran really NEED a Massive ground unit? All their units are ranged, and the Terran forces most commonly caught in Force Fields are M&M bioballs, whom are supported by Medevacs which can lift them anyway. The only other effect Massive has is cannot be lifted by Phoenix, and since Warhounds are designed to kill Mutaballs, they should be just as effective vs Phoenix anyway.
In that picture, the Terrans are pretty prepared (even if outnumbered), yet how the hell are they going to counter this if they don't have air? Proto air can just hide out of range and mineral strike and get back out
W/O starport, terran=screwed
Somewhat on topic, anyone else curious what impact it would have on the game if the Queen was a massive unit? Zerg wouldn't lose all their Queens in one drive-by Phoenixing, and maybe an offensive Queen or two in the early-mid game to break a FF? Carry in an Overlord, drop in the heat of a battle.
it can be tricky to handle air harassment without one or two vikings out, but i suspect warhound+marines will do well enoguh even thoguhw arhounds can be lifted, tehy cant realyl be lifted from far away... then there s the option t have ghsots out adn land EMP on ome of the energy suing P air units (phoenix/oracle).. and as always, as long as vikings have cover by marines, they reign supreme with range, even if you just have one out, the tactical advantage of that 9 attack-range is tremendous.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamshank
... then again, if you dont preempt such heavy ai-harass-play with getting a viking out & positioning it safely, oracles are capable of delaying that viking production quite alot if you arnt careful...
For the most part I agree with Demolition Squid.
The battle form of the hellion sounds like a cool idea, but sounds like they are trying to bring back the firebat without bringing him back.
The Thor being a super unit, will turn the Thor into what the Mothership was, unused.
Although I do believe toss needed a better anti air, the Tempest is not the way I would have liked to go. It sounds like they toke the viking made it toss looking, and then called it a capital ship with a couple additions.
Toss does need a harassment unit, but not another one that is from the stargate. Terran can use the hellion to harass, the zerg can use mutas to harass. The Oracle is just giving toss another way to harass at the end of the game, not where it was needed. That defeated the purpose, and forces you to go air to harass at all. We need to be able to harass from the gateway or robo, not another harass unit in the air. It also can't kill workers, which makes harassing with it only good for the short term. You would have to attack very soon. Being able to kill workers is a much better way.
The replicant makes toss sound like they can't play well without using the other two races units. It also sounds like the sentry's hallucination ability, except it does damage. Thank you Blizzard for duplicating and modifying an ability into a unit.
The Mineral Siphon ability is just another way for zerg to get more money, as if they had problems getting money in the first place.
The Viper's ability to yank units to it sounds op to me. Why? Imagine you have a nice group of stalkers and collsi. You attack the zerg, and are on the verge of winning the game. Your collsi are cutting right through their lings. Then out of no where you collsi are pulled towards the zerg army, and then killed by the massive amount of lings. Your army is quickly crashed and you lose the game. Why? Because you used a single ability and you lost the game. If that ability makes it to the real game, all the bronze people will start complaining, and that they are losing because of one little ability.
Few opinion updates:
The more I think about it, the more I lothe the Replicant. I play Protoss to play Protoss. If I wanted to play Zerg or Terran, I would play Zerg or Terran. Just as Mind Control was high tech in SC:BW, and Neural Parasite is limited in use in SC:WoL, I think the Replicant's role and power should be minimal.
Replicant should not be required to be competitive. Even Hallucination was altered from SCBW to SC:WoL to only phantom Protoss units. Forcing Protoss to use the other races units in this manner makes Protoss seem unable to compete on their own merit. Its a needless gimmick.
I really, really think the Oracle should be a Robotics unit. Protoss needed an alternate harrassing unit other than Phoenix. What we got was a unit that's in the exact same tech placement as the Phoenix. It just doesn't seem to solve the issue nearly as well as it could. Going for your main harrassing unit shouldn't curb you into such a strict tech path (Stargate). Putting it at the Robo gives it more flexibility because of the wider array of units you already get there.
As for the Viper's "Get over here!," I think having it with a very high energy cost should limit its power enough to be balanced. A "one use per major engagement" ability.
I agree with all this, except for the ability be unable to pull massive units. It makes since in lore, and would balance it just fine. It wouldn't cause as much of a change as pulling collsi or maybe bc (if you can do air).Quote:
Originally Posted by DemolitionSquid
Sometimes I feel like toss is getting the same amount of love as zerg and especially terran.
Uh, making it non-massive only would make it pretty useless. And it's hardly THAT OP.
Actually, being unable to target massive would only render the Colossus, Ultralisk and Archon immune. The Thor is up to 1-per-army so no, it shouldn't be easily pulled into chaos. The Warhound, Siege Tank, Queen, Swarm Host, HTs and Immortal are non-massive. The Ultralisk is getting burrow charge so Abduct won't do much to it anyway, it'll just dive back in. The Colossus is still vulnerable to Blinding Cloud, I believe. Archons...well okay I got nothing for them.
Colossi are going to be the spells' primary target. You remove a key component if you can't target them.
Blinding Cloud. A Colossi the player has to move around is a Colossi that isn't gonna be firing. Sometimes all it takes is a few seconds.
Still, colossus is the main target for this spell.
You mean, the same as EMP, Force Field and Fungal Growth? Well, that ability is made to do that with some units, it is situational at best. What is actually good about this ability is that it will counter Force Fields, if you have some massive unit in your army, by pulling them over Force Fields. But if you cast proper Blinding Clouds, you won't even need to do this, since it will disable Sentries. In most situations I will use Blinding Cloud anyway.Quote:
The Viper's ability to yank units to it sounds op to me. Why? Imagine you have a nice group of stalkers and collsi. You attack the zerg, and are on the verge of winning the game. Your collsi are cutting right through their lings. Then out of no where you collsi are pulled towards the zerg army, and then killed by the massive amount of lings. Your army is quickly crashed and you lose the game. Why? Because you used a single ability and you lost the game. If that ability makes it to the real game, all the bronze people will start complaining, and that they are losing because of one little ability.
Actually, should the Zerg Viper remain and make it into multiplayer, I think a lot of Protoss players would try to replicate it. It would remove the need to build observors, if your viper can make your units into detectors. While the more powerful non-massive enemy units like siege tanks can be good targets, you have to remember that the replicator can give you access to a Zerg or Terran support unit, and use its abilities for your forces or against the enemy. It doesn't have to be a muscle unit, because the replicator cost wouldn't make it a good deal. But if you get a support unit that has 500/500 worth of research abilities, when your opponent may not have them yet, it's definitely worth the price of the replicator.
Well said zero.
Adding a viper or raven to a protoss army could have just as much an impact in a fight as copying siege tanks.
I'm intrigued mostly by the prospect of replicating a Ghost, then cloaking and sending it out when you see an opponent on the move and EMPing his ghosts before the big engagement. And let's not forget in SC2, SCVs can repair Protoss units. Replicate an SCV and just make an Orbital Command while building a few SCVs to escort and support your Immortals and Colossi.
Is anyone else of the opinion that aside from the viper though, the replicant may not have much use against Zerg? I play Protoss and usually the only Zerg I have trouble with consistently are their airforce, which the Tempest is designed to handle. Their ground units, I find depending on the composition a balanced force of lots, stalks, immortals and/or colossi work just fine, I don't need to copy a Zerg spellcaster to help.
Something I'm fuzzy on is how this affects PvP with the technology. Like, if I replicate an enemy Colossi, it gets the range boost, but do I automatically get the range boost researched for all Colossi, or just the replicated one?
If you were able to replicate a colossus you would get the range upgrade from the information we have gotten, but the problem is that colossus is massive and thus can't be replicated.
You don't see the point in replicating Infestors or Vipers? Fungal Growth on Zerg units than cast Psi Storm over it? Blinding Clouds on Hydras and Roaches while your Colossi wreak havoc over them, trapping them in Force Fields so they can't escape from Blinding Cloud? Tons of possibilities.Quote:
Is anyone else of the opinion that aside from the viper though, the replicant may not have much use against Zerg? I play Protoss and usually the only Zerg I have trouble with consistently are their airforce, which the Tempest is designed to handle. Their ground units, I find depending on the composition a balanced force of lots, stalks, immortals and/or colossi work just fine, I don't need to copy a Zerg spellcaster to help.
I don't know about you, but currently in GSL I see ton of Protoss players having problems with Infestor/Ling army, switching into Mutalisks. Replicant would certainly help there. Tempest is high tech unit and it costs a lot, you need to have few them to be able to handle big bunch of Mutalisks, OR... you can just make two Infestors and Fungal 20+ Mutalisks to Death with few Stalkers support.
I don't use HTs so there you go to your first point, and yes, I said "aside from the viper". And while the infestor certainly would help on Muta harass, this assumes the enemy Zerg makes them. Me, if I were gonna make a huge fleet of Mutas I'd focus my gas on that, considering how much gas infesters cost.
I just meant that as an example. There's another new ballgame then, Replicant could copy a Stalker or Zealot and get you Charge and Blink for free, which justifies the Replicant's base cost - two 200/200 units (400/400), you save the Twilight Council and the upgrade costs (500/450) and now have a free Stalker and Zealot to add the army at no cost. Could easily trick an opponent, they don't see a Twilight Council and don't realize you replicated their units and still have the upgrades.Quote:
Originally Posted by Twilice
i think the terrans have too many walkers. i'm not feeling the war hound its stealing the thunder of the marauder.
aesthetically, i think the terrans need another unit on Treads. they already have 2 walker mechs and now a third with the hellion, they dont need a fourth.
So much this. I've been thinking this, too. Though, for me it would be fine, if at least the Warhound wasn't that humanoid shaped... Get rid of the arms AT LEAST, I say.Quote:
Originally Posted by warrior6
I said it numerous times before, but the Thor is too large to walk on 2 legs.Quote:
Originally Posted by warrior6
It should be on treads.
Give it the ARES model.
What the Thor should have been from the beginning:
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g2...6980848744.jpg
Also I wouldn't call the Marauder or the Battle Hellion walkers. They are just powersuits that are a bit larger.
They are powersuits/exo-suits. That was never up for debate. The issue is that Terran has too many bipedal units.Quote:
Originally Posted by flabortast
Only thing i dont like about taking out the Carrier and Mothership is that the Protoss lack the super cool big ship.
The new Tempest is quite literally massive.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrjiggles
Do we know anything more specific about the shredder? - Can it dig into creep? Will it only work on biological units? - Wondering if it might be too effective as an econ raider.
It apparently has a deploy time (so...imagine something similar to the time it takes for zerg crawlers to dig in).
I doubt it would be effective at killing mineral lines unless you at the same time distract your opponent.
It will certainly at the lower levels of play.Quote:
Originally Posted by Caliban113
You can test it in HOTS Custom. I was playing few games(well more than few) and it is great mod, you can really see what you can do with new units such as Shredder/Vipers/Swarm Hosts etc. Was playing with friend, also, there are some Youtube videos of HD Starcraft playing that mod with some guy. I like it a lot, the creator really did a great job on it.
Wow - that's awesome - had no idea
Spor put this link up on the TL2 channel the other night - Interesting stuff. Have to say, I love hearing all I can about the development process. I'll admit, I do feel a bit better about the new units (and the game's development) after seeing this. However, I stand firm by my prediction that at release, we'll only see 1 unit for each race, (prolly the 'map control' stuff) and we'll likely still be looking forward to the beta at this time next year.
Sadly, anyone could have answered that 'lan' question for you about 3 years ago. :)
Hopefully the tempest can be that. it LOOKS pretty nice.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrjiggles
but i think its air to ground attack is rather bladn and unintersting and really too weak to be much good at anything considering its cost. atm i feel like it'd be cool to combine it with the carrierr; give it gorund-only interceptors.. and either cheaper interceptors or a carrier mechanic that works more like the one in bw where carriers can more easily stay moving while their interceptors keep intercepting anything in persuit.
Can't say that I am bitter, all that stuff that he said, was said in the WoL Alpha interviews. I mean, they were adding some cool stuff, and try to balance them, and they become pretty good in the end. The difference here is that they understand the weaknesses of the races and are adding stuff that will help them at some fields where they have problems, that is exactly how SC and SC BW functioned. I think that they will do a pretty good job and that HotS will be better expansion. I still think that SC2's 5 minutes have yet to come.Quote:
Originally Posted by Caliban113
Interview was also good.
I hate Blizzard's design philosophy of "cool first, function second." Design is the creation of a solution to a problem. Art is an expression of idea or emotion with no goal beyond the expression. Blizzard doesn't design games, they create art. And for once, that's not a compliment. It leads to units like the Thor who are "cool" but not "functional" and while that's OK for the campaign, its not OK for a competitive game. Playing football while the ball is on fire would be cool, but its completely nonfunctional.
I agree with you, and I was a bit pessimistic about it back in the WoL alpha days. But as I said, in the end it turned out good, at least it did for me, as I really enjoy watching pro matches.Quote:
Originally Posted by DemolitionSquid
Dustin addresses the reason for that in the video Caliban posted...Quote:
Originally Posted by DemolitionSquid