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Yeah, I mean, in SC1 all the hero or special units were just reused from the regular units except for Kerrigan.Quote:
Originally Posted by Twilice
Still a lot of work to color, but I had to post the Arclite siege tank; I'm really pleased with the way it looks, and how it would take up the same space as two goliaths in the dropship. ;)
http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/7/...tlineup113.jpg
Why the arclite? It's technically and obsolete model (or at least just no longer 'state-of-the art.')
Granted it's slightly smaller & more compact (actually a GOOD thing in terms of armored fighting vehicle design irl) but not by much:
http://images.wikia.com/starcraft/im...SC2_Cncpt1.jpg
http://th08.deviantart.net/fs71/PRE/...nt-d4bux0l.png
Heehee, I was waiting for an excuse to use this picture.
Just kidding, though. I'm not sure exactly why the Arclite is used. My guess is due to availability, since there is a lot more material on the Arclite versus the Crucio. Although, in the StarCraft wiki it shows two pieces of artwork: a schematic showing a good side view, and another picture with the Crucio along with a few marines (which could be used for a scaling reference). So if someone cares to, it can be added.
Holy shit that pictures is awesome.
There're a few reasons why I drew an arclite tank. I think the design is really memorable, and for me is one of the most emblematic units in all of Starcraft. It's also easier for me to draw to scale: there are more references for it, even though I don't follow any one design exactly. Also, the arclite designs include normal things like headlights and an entry hatch (thanks, SCG). I can figure out how much space there would be inside for people, for example.
http://images.wikia.com/starcraft/im...WoL_Story1.jpg
With the crucio tank, the middle section seems like it'd be full of the machinery to make the treads swing out to the sides (which doesn't make sense to me in the first place; scraping the treads sideways along irregular terrain and broken metal seems like a bad idea). Then there are these extra little tread pods sticking out on either side which seem to have no wheels or anything to rotate the tank tracks, since in the transformation sequence the support arms and all these hoses magically pop out of them. The turret is right in the center of the tank, maybe the people sit inside the turret? I don't know, and I don't think Blizzard does either. So, I obviously feel a lot less comfortable drawing it if I'm just BSing the whole design.
It looks really really cool, but I don't feel like I have it figured out the way I do with the arclite. They're similar sizes, and they both have the same role, so I don't need to draw two different tanks the way I have to with the dropships.
That being said, I can still draw both designs like I'm planning to with the ultralisk. They have different names, so it's not like the way marines and gauss rifles are just inconsistant. And the crucio tank lifted up on its siege mode legs will probably be taller than the arclite, so then it's worth having in for the height comparison. If you want it in, I'll draw it eventually.
http://eu.starcraft2.com/features/te...ank-thumb2.jpg
Also, as awesome as the crucio concept art is, you can see they didn't actually follow it for their final tank, which is symmetrical front-to-back. So my drawing would be quite a bit different anyway.
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Originally Posted by Robear
I here what your saying. looking about it now, the concept art does look more feasible than the in game model. For example; in the top down perspective you can see what presumably is an entry hatch on the side treads. Oh well...
You've got awesome drawings at any rate.:D
... Robear, I'll totally bear your child if you continue posting updates on your progress. :D
Here, have a queen. Don't be surprised to feel the broodlings spawning in you any day now. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Visions of Khas
http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/7/...enbyrobear.jpg
Yeah, sorry I haven't had any major updates lately, but there will be more soon! Uh, in the mean time, here, you can have a picture of the bulletin board over the desk where I work on all this stuff. :P
http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/7/...1/scbboard.jpg
What if the treads are propped up by the supports so that they can swing outwards without friction (also why the crucio has more supports than the arclite - arclite = 2, crucio = 4)? You gotta consider everything. If the treads still can't swing outwards, then the terrain is probably too rough for the crucio anyway (in which case, it probably just blasts it into smoothness). Chances are that the crucio uses a semi-shaped charge, which is why it does more damage to armored units than bio (about twice as much; which is pretty extreme enough, I'd say).Quote:
With the crucio tank, the middle section seems like it'd be full of the machinery to make the treads swing out to the sides (which doesn't make sense to me in the first place; scraping the treads sideways along irregular terrain and broken metal seems like a bad idea). Then there are these extra little tread pods sticking out on either side which seem to have no wheels or anything to rotate the tank tracks, since in the transformation sequence the support arms and all these hoses magically pop out of them. The turret is right in the center of the tank, maybe the people sit inside the turret?
To be fair, they wouldn't carry buildings. Nor would they carry very many ultras, unless they were meant to. I think that for an assualt, leviathans would carry a minimal amount of zerg (really just air bornes, like brood lords and scourge). Though that's obvious (seen in-game). Leviathans aren't used for colonizing efforts all that much. Why? They can't overstock overlords.Quote:
Zerg Leviathans are basically gargantuan space whales capable of carrying entire broods within their innards, that'd probably make them at the them equal to, if not greater in size to the largest Protoss motherships.
10 or so overlords (and the pop they support; so like enough drones to quickly erect a large base and a swarm of zerglings/hydras/roaches for a rapid effort; note that even rapid bases take time to mature, since they gotta evolve the hatchery too) is technically enough for a brood.
M'kay, my opinion? Head is larger and more elongated, but also sloping downwards. The body is a heck of a lot wider, wider than it is high. So if the hydra is 10ft. tall, then the lurker is 9ft. tall and maybe 18-20ft. wide at least. And equally as long. So if the hydra is 16-18ft. long from tail to crest of the head... yeah.Quote:
Considering Lurkers are evolved from Hydralisks, I would probably just compare their heads and scale the body accordingly, maybe making the Lurker only slightly larger due to added armor and musculature.
I think the intent of roaches is to draw fire. They're cannon fodder, but they're tough fodder. Which is why they're considered 'armored'. Also, they spit acid - to gradually eat through armored foes. Other zerg do the mop up and collateral damage.Quote:
Where did you get your reference for the Roach? It seems a bit big; I thought they were only slightly larger than Zerglings.
So to draw fire, they've gotta let the enemy be more afraid of them than of a zergling. Even in modern warfare, we use similar tactics - loud machine guns tend to draw fire from the enemy. But loud machine guns also do lots of damage if the enemy doesn't pay attention; usually an enemy that doesn't pay attention to loud machine guns is deliberately ignoring the LMG - yet it still becomes distracting when the effort to ignore is diverted away from the effort to seek and destroy, etc., etc.
The roach is a gibbering mess of an ugly, enduring creature. That's why they call it a roach. When humans see it, they want it to die even more than they want a zergling to die.
For the purpose of clarification and the prevention of dumb mistakes - CEREBRATES ARE THE GLOWY WORM/SLUGS. Larvae are the centipedes. Kthxbai.Quote:
I don't think those are cerebrates. They wouldn't just be hanging on a wall, and they would all be dead in the brood war cinematic. Personally I think that's the inside of a hive, and those are larvae or something.
That would take an awful lot of capacity for a single hull. You're going with the assumption that carriers are utterly massive - if they are, why not stick plenty of big and small guns on them too (for handling everything; like a mothership does; not just a single 'big gun' for supporting a bombing of planets)? And then you're going to have to assume that protoss have ascended (or perhaps even transcended) a resource based economy that's not nearly as desperate as terran or zerg (and the zerg are only powerful because they can live being bottom feeders). Which would, of course, contradict the way they work in the game.Quote:
But I would imagine that carriers' hulls would be filled with shuttles and scouts in addition to their interceptors, and would also have space to house dozens of reavers and hundreds of Protoss.
Nukes and such? Battlecruisers that can carry enough for an entire expansion are the ones carrying the nukes too. In other words, I'd take that from a behemoth battlecruiser (largest hull, right? AKA the super BC, or whatever the wiki called it). Unless you're willing to overstock a standard issue one like a minotaur (meaning you scrap on the guns and other technical detailings; blizz doesn't like inventing units that have trouble following orders due to comm and tactical navigation errors though, which is why we haven't seen that yet - because even when done in campaign, it's annoying to play with).Quote:
Similarly, I imagine Battlecruisers being pretty huge, each carrying enough to start a new terran expansion, with tons of minerals, scvs, several dropships, and space for tanks and troops. Plus the bigger ones would have a nuclear silo to launch the orbital nukes that ghosts use on top of the reactors that power their own engines. That all makes behemoth battlecruisers pretty huge.
What you described for your carriers, I'd apply only to the Gantrithor. That ship rivals a mothership. The mothership, however, rivals the gantri in guns, nav and surveillance and other special equipment (so it probably doesn't have so much space for carrying). The gantrithor stripped would be like the ultimate blank slate, custom applicable to any combat circumstance.
Imho, carriers (tempests in particular; they don't make hulls like they used to) are minimalist, but as tough as they need to be (however, much of their defense relies on the plasma shields; the terran theme on the other hand is not necessarily better armor, but MOAR ARMOR (why battlecruisers have more hp in-game), because they also like to stick bigger engines - which of course, attract more attention due to the ejection mass involved (read: fire coming out of the pods at the back), but the terrans don't care because the theme is that they're the cocky ones). Protoss carriers can carry shuttles and scouts, but only enough to support a larger fleet. Scouts aren't much larger than a reaver - so an entire ground assault force can't fit into a single carrier. For that, you'd need some kind of transport craft that the carrier would be protecting for a land assault.
Also a scout is called a scout for a reason - it's a minimalist craft (crew = 1, serving as pilot, gunner, engineer, comms and co-pilot), that can serve as a fighter in a spot. In earlier times, when the protoss weren't so concerned about holding off on their militarist qualities, they probably had much more dedicated fighter craft. Ie. Like in real life: faster interceptors, bombers, resilient fighters. I know nothing about all the ins and outs and the benefits of an interceptor over say, an F-14 tom cat (is that an interceptor? see, I don't even know).
The scout is basically a reliable model (fast, easy enough to maintain, can handle being shot at by other light and fast craft and shoot back, etc.) that stuck with changing times and might have existed for hundreds of years (and not out of any strong tradition) - which is also why they were so quick to replace it with the phoenix (a dedicated support craft) and were pretty much desperate to make use of the corsair (similar to the phoenix; phoenix was kinda modeled off the corsair). I think the way blizz thinks in terms of new units is similar to how the races in the lore are thinking - it only makes the most sense, that way.
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One thing I'd like to mention is that the protoss were sorta modeled on the ancient roman empire - in the sense that they were once a great empire and now they're falling apart. Even before Aiur was lost. Blizz kinda fell off of that though (it's only somewhat obvious in some of the art themes), since it's a cliche to make a disparrate empire looking like ancient rome.
Also the ancient romans are known to have depended on military designs that worked at one point but fail to keep up with the times. And as they say (don't know particulalry who, just 'they'), the deprecation of its military is the first signs of the failure of the whole shebang. Of course, pretty much every european/western country is focused on avoiding those very mistakes (with the exception of places that are like Canada; how many of those exist?).
Mengsk wanted a bigger gun (bigger gun = better firing rate + slightly better damage). The emperor gets his bigger gun! He didn't want anything else to fall short - so yeah, the whole tank needed to be bigger (of course, this means that things will still fall short, but not in the eyes of the emprah).Quote:
Granted it's slightly smaller & more compact (actually a GOOD thing in terms of armored fighting vehicle design irl) but not by much:
Ever considered that the protoss are still clinging to some zealous traditions involving them being hardcore and IF YOU VOLUNTEER TO FIGHT AGAIN YOU MUST HAVE A LARGE PORTION OF YOUR TORSO AMPUTATED.Quote:
there's no way you'd be able to fit a Protoss torso into either.
The hardcore imagery gets rid of any need to be safe or as practical for concerning the rest of the protoss' life. Just like dreadnoughts, they probably live in those suits.
Oh good, this is the sort of thing that justifies this topic being in the lore section. Lots to respond to here...
We know that in Heart of the Swarm, Kerrigan travels around in a Leviathan. The Leviathan contains an evolution chamber full of eggs (where you purchase upgrades in the campaign). We also know from screenshots showing Kerrigan in the Leviathan, but with a planet's surface as the background that the Leviathan can land on planets. So, while your version of a Zerg colonization involves bringing in drones and making everything from scratch, I'd imagine that a landed Leviathan could not only unload units, but serve as (at least the beginnings of) a hive cluster, spreading creep, producing larvae and eggs with the help of a queen, containing either fully formed buildings or at least identical components like the evolution chamber Kerrigan has. Then, yeah, drones could pour out and start making more permanent structures, but you wouldn't need to just send them down in vulnerable overlords.Quote:
To be fair, they wouldn't carry buildings. Nor would they carry very many ultras, unless they were meant to. I think that for an assualt, leviathans would carry a minimal amount of zerg (really just air bornes, like brood lords and scourge). Though that's obvious (seen in-game). Leviathans aren't used for colonizing efforts all that much. Why? They can't overstock overlords. 10 or so overlords (and the pop they support; so like enough drones to quickly erect a large base and a swarm of zerglings/hydras/roaches for a rapid effort; note that even rapid bases take time to mature, since they gotta evolve the hatchery too) is technically enough for a brood.
Regardless as far as art and size are concerned, here's some great leviathan HotS concept art that compares one to a mothership! And look! It shows detail of an opening, and a detail of that shows overlords coming out of it! Yes!
http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__...SC2_Cncpt1.gif
Someone find this in higher resolution! This picture is like the holy grail of this project for me. :P
I can also imagine that this is the sort of size of the thing containing the Overmind and all the Zerg that crashes down to Aiur in SC1.
Fortunately, we know how big lurkers are, because they were in Starcraft Ghost. Bit smaller than a tank. You can see some little marines and some tiny zerglings in the middle of this picture; and the lurkers are definitely big enough to impale some infantry. :PQuote:
Speculation about lurkers
http://xboxmedia.ign.com/xbox/image/...2084429377.jpg
Yeah, but they're not the things on the walls of the Zerg briefing room. Those are much bigger than people, while larvae are this big:Quote:
Larvae are the centipedes. Kthxbai.
http://starcraft2-heartoftheswarm.co...5a1b60bb57.jpg
I always assumed that the Protoss inside dragoon exoskeletons were just heads in tanks, but then the immortal portrait shows an entire torso, as does the concept art.Quote:
Ever considered that the protoss are still clinging to some zealous traditions involving them being hardcore and IF YOU VOLUNTEER TO FIGHT AGAIN YOU MUST HAVE A LARGE PORTION OF YOUR TORSO AMPUTATED. The hardcore imagery gets rid of any need to be safe or as practical for concerning the rest of the protoss' life. Just like dreadnoughts, they probably live in those suits.
http://images.wikia.com/starcraft/im..._SC2_Head2.jpg
If immortals are all upgraded dragoons (which they are), the protoss inside the immortals were once inside dragoons, which would mean that the whole torso fits inside the dragoon. But, I've seen a retconned explanation for this, which is that while no more dragoons can be made, they still had a bunch of empty ones stocked up that were upgraded into immortals. Then those empty immortals would have enough space for a whole torso, even though the veteran dragoon pilots are pretty much just heads.
I know how big the Gantrithor and SCBW carriers are from cutscenes and loading screens, I know how big a scout is from cutscenes and Starcraft ghost. The phoenix has a cockpit, so I can guess based on the scout's size/cockpit ratio. What I don't have is information on the corsair, SC2 carrier, warp prism, observer, or void ray. Right now I have to completely guess how big those are within ranges like, 'smaller than the Gantrithor, bigger than a scout.' I have a feeling they're gonna turn out to be disappointingly small.Quote:
stuff about carriers and scouts
If anyone knows or has heard of any concept art that shows void rays or ravens compared to literally anything else, help me out; I've never seen any concepts for them at all.
It's been hard work trying to make it interesting. -_-Quote:
Oh good, this is the sort of thing that justifies this topic being in the lore section. Lots to respond to here...
Really? Maybe different leviathans have different sizes?Quote:
The Leviathan contains an evolution chamber full of eggs (where you purchase upgrades in the campaign).
Kerrigan would put extra effort into her own leviathan... right?
I think it's preferable that a leviathan shoots them from space. Whats with all the random meteorites that spawn zerg in precise locations in WoL? IMO, comes from a leviathan or from some kind of satellite that itself was created by a leviathan... it comes from somewhere.Quote:
So, while your version of a Zerg colonization involves bringing in drones and making everything from scratch
So it seems like there's some kind capitol leviathan ship specially made to carry blueprints. Probably a new deal with kerrigan only controlling a fraction of the swarm she used to. The complete swarm probably didn't use those kind of leviathans, since that would be vulnerability (an entire brood dependent on a leviathan, which is slow and capable of being ambushed, as opposed to an immortal cerebrate).Quote:
I'd imagine that a landed Leviathan could not only unload units, but serve as (at least the beginnings of) a hive cluster, spreading creep, producing larvae and eggs with the help of a queen, containing either fully formed buildings or at least identical components like the evolution chamber Kerrigan has.
Can you find a screenshot? I think I know what you're talking about - but I always assumed those were tubes for larvae to travel through (or other zerg equivalent of primordial ooze).Quote:
Yeah, but they're not the things on the walls of the Zerg briefing room. Those are much bigger than people, while larvae are this big:
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All that said - to remain completely valid, you should do both the old and new ultralisks. Put in the torrasque too. Imho, leviathans are of different sizes - they're called 'leviathans' because they're the biggest thing the zerg can create and don't necessarily use any tactics except colonize or desperate assault - so kerrigan's flag ship is going to be the biggest.
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__..._SC2_Game1.jpg
Further proof is this image. It looks different from your image, lul.
The back appears to be fully devoted to holding zerg - on the other hand, your leviathan image seems to make room for extra armor; so kerrigan took liberties and made it into this super leviathan thing.
So are you agreeing or disagreeing/agreeing to disagree/nodding in an affirmative maybe?Quote:
Fortunately, we know how big lurkers are, because they were in Starcraft Ghost. Bit smaller than a tank. You can see some little marines and some tiny zerglings in the middle of this picture; and the lurkers are definitely big enough to impale some infantry.
I was thinking the dragoon allows a small portion of the torso - so maybe cut away so the stomach is gone as are some of the ribs, but the head remains (the most important part, lul). They don't overdo it - they still respect the body... just barely.Quote:
I always assumed that the Protoss inside dragoon exoskeletons were just heads in tanks, but then the immortal portrait shows an entire torso, as does the concept art.
Also, immortals are bigger - the design simply gives more room; for the entire thorax even. Protoss are more zealous than ever before (protoss are very much more united and since Aiur is gone, they're returning to their militant roots), so even more of the wounded whom are injured (even barely; ie. I lost my testes before I hit puberty, thus I unfortunately lack the testosterone to be man enough to be a real ROAD WARRIOR even though I hoped I'd make it through enlisting... can I have cyborg halps???* Surgeon: Oh, of course! Y'know, now you'll only lose your legs and some of your arms, instead of much of the thorax like before - man, those were such savage days with those fascist council judicator whatsits... Zealot: Put it on my Artanis approved health care!) to inaction wanna serve.
The making of a dragoon was more somber. It was a last resort for those especially commited to their zealoutry - which explains why the dragoon facilities were abandoned so quickly. Their weren't very many to begin with, because they were (to put it harshly) a gimmick for the devoted. It existed for quite a while - there were probably devout followers that wanted to see it have an expanded role, but the times were against them. As a result, dragoons were humbled - and you can tell by all of their in-game quotes.
'I have returned' doesn't scream awesome with riffing guitar background, does it?
That's too broad of an assumption. A more precise assumption, however, would be that those are the majority of immortals - younger non-dragoon protoss that have recently been horribly maimed. The preludes and WoL entail a lot of conflicts. So immortals most likely outnumber dragoons. Dragoons were few to begin with - slow production rate eventually wore down whatever big numbers they had on Aiur.Quote:
the protoss inside the immortals were once inside dragoons, which would mean that the whole torso fits inside the dragoon.
Yeah I know, it's lame (especially considering how often noobs mass dragoons in BW). But... y'know. Blizz. :D
*It's okay to make fun of protoss in the military, because they aren't human and it's the future where nobody really cares about anything except the tech anyway.
Then those immortal veterans are just heads, but blizz scrapped on the portraits to reflect the majority. Handwaved!Quote:
Then those empty immortals would have enough space for a whole torso, even though the veteran dragoon pilots are pretty much just heads.
Observer is fairly small (smaller than a zealot at least). I'd say its expensive, however, because they're relatively few in number. Didn't they exist to survey other planets (like... one per planet)? They're so good at their job, that the market for them stagnated.Quote:
observer
I think they operate via some sorta psychic means - narrow the range and you get information on everything (the telepathy grows stronger with this one...), including any sorta cloak detection. So, they were the perfect seekers and no new product could rise above them in reputation. Just like most other protoss hardware - existed for probably hundreds of years. Like the ancient romans, conclave said 'meh, good enough' and essentially 'hedonism ho!' for those who could afford the luxuries of a world that some deemed good enough.
That's pretty broad, so I hope you're joking.Quote:
Right now I have to completely guess how big those are within ranges like, 'smaller than the Gantrithor, bigger than a scout.'
Also, ravens and void rays don't appear in cinematics because they're boring (just standing their and shooting magical stuff, basically; also the raven doesn't have any guns, is hardly rusty - and so contradicts terran philosophy slightly).
Well... not only that - I get the feeling that blizz is less likely to show units in cinematics in direct proportion to the amount of players that use them all the time. Some 'justification against people thinking we're pretentious' clause.
[I'm not including complete quotes so that these posts don't become ridiculously long and hard to read. Today I'll get back to posting real updates.]
Yeah, so, earlier in the thread people were discussing about the trilobite-looking things on the walls here;Quote:
Can you include a screenshot?
http://cdn.overclock.net/8/87/870d3a...ach207867.jpeg
They could be part of the walls, or they could be some unnamed Zerg strain that lives in buildings. They aren't larvae or cerebrates. Either way, doesn't affect the unit drawings.
I plan to, but you could also say that to be completely valid I need to draw 5 different vultures, 3 different firebats and marines, 2 different medics, like 10 different zerglings...Quote:
All that said - to remain completely valid, you should do both the old and new ultralisks. Put in the torrasque too.
If Blizzard's given the designs different names I can use (Gantrithor/carrier, torrasque/ultralisk, Behemoth/Minotaur, Arclite/Crucio, Medivac/Dropship), I'll draw the different versions. While it'd be cool to compare every different zergling design (which I'll do sometime for fun), it would just take up a lot of space on the chart without showing people more information on the sizes, and it would take forever for me to finish. I would have to redraw all the units I've done like 3-4 times. >_<
I know the ingame model differs from the concept art, I wouldn't base my drawing solely on either design anyway. I'm hoping that before I work my way up to the Leviathan, they'll release HotS screenshots showing the Leviathan from the outside during the campaign cutscenes, like the Hyperion in WoL. Not only will it be totally awesome, but then I'll have enough references.Quote:
Leviathan stuff
I happen to agree, but it was a little irrelevant; speculating on how big things should be doesn't matter if we have an actual Blizzard reference showing us. :)Quote:
So are you agreeing or disagreeing/agreeing to disagree/nodding in an affirmative maybe? [about lurkers]
We know Immortals don't outnumber dragoons, because Immortals are just the leftover dragoons that survived BW.Quote:
about immortals
(from the SC2 site)Quote:
Before the loss of Aiur, crippled Protoss warriors could volunteer to continue their service by transplanting their shattered remains into Dragoon exoskeletons. Tragically, the technology to continue this practice was lost in the rubble of their fallen homeworld. The remaining Dragoons, now known as Immortals, have been refitted with Twin Phase Disruptors and hardened energy shields...These ancient warriors are a dying breed willing to sacrifice everything for their people. Soon none will remain.
I know you wrote a lot more stuff than that, but it's nothing I can really comment on, and it doesn't affect my drawing. :P
See, this is back to being complete speculation. In the original manual (but also repeated on the SC2 site), we learn that observers are "small drones employed to survey vast wasteland areas or observe and record battles." If they were some planetary satellite I would think they were much bigger. While they are sometimes deployed in space, their original role as a desert surveyor/battle recorder makes me agree with your assumption of small size.Quote:
Observer is fairly small (smaller than a zealot at least). I'd say its expensive, however, because they're relatively few in number. Didn't they exist to survey other planets (like... one per planet)? They're so good at their job, that the market for them stagnated.
Keep in mind that all of our Protoss characters have also existed for hundreds of years. :PQuote:
Just like most other protoss hardware - existed for probably hundreds of years.
Yeah, if they were in cinematics I would already know about it. :P What I want is concept art. It's bad to only have the ingame units as references; I like to have a few different sources and make a composite:Quote:
Also, ravens and void rays don't appear in cinematics because they're boring
-All of the in-game models have exaggerated proportions to make them easier to see
-They're not to scale
-They're usually not detailed enough to draw the scale from the design. For example, vikings and phoenix and things have cockpits, but on the bigger ships you can't see any windows or anything, leaving their size ambiguous. However, concept art is more detailed, even when the design doesn't match up to the final unit:
http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__...SC2_Cncpt1.jpg
I can see the bridge of the Nomad, so I can estimate how big it is. But, of course, I don't want to draw the Nomad; I want to draw the Raven and void ray. So if anyone has ever seen any concept art of it, it'd be really helpful, even if it's a weird proto-version of it. I'm happy to make up details, but I wouldn't want it to turn out that there was a detailed Blizzard reference and mine's just inaccurate.
Anyway— Back to drawing!
http://sclegacy.com/images/phocagallery/cimg3149.jpg
Leviathan picture. There's a leviathan floating in the sky in the grey planet of that hots prerendered cinematic. Either way it's gigantic and the concept art is probably what you should go with for the size.
There's are plenty of slides in Frontline showing Immortals in reference to zerglings & other protoss. I also don't understand why a protoss torso couldn't fit into a dragoon. Here's an image from SC: Ghost.Quote:
I always assumed that the Protoss inside dragoon exoskeletons were just heads in tanks, but then the immortal portrait shows an entire torso, as does the concept art.
Not sure why you think dragoons had to be few in number, but the facility was abandoned because it was lost to the zerg on Aiur and it was technology they can't replicate.Quote:
Originally Posted by solidsamurai
I've always thought that Immortals were only just upgraded existing Dragoons and NOT just a completely different way to make Dragoon-like constructs. The ability to physically make more Dargoons/Immortals was lost because of the Zerg conquest of Aiur. Couple this with the constant warfare, I assume that's why they're both few in number.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gradius
We see a new Immortal being made in a Frontline story. According to the SC manual, dragoons are bonded to their suit by essence translators. My theory is that these were made at the shrine on Aiur which was "lost" but they still have a few remaining essence translators salvaged from other cybernetics cores (where the essence translators were kept). So Immortals/Dragoons can still be made, but in a while they will start going on the decline. But all that is beside the point since we don't know how many dragoons there originally were. 70% of Aiur's population that died could have been converted for all we know.Quote:
Originally Posted by Turalyon
Hmmmmmmm... I guess the flavour text/background of the Immortal (on their homepage no less) is not worth a grain of salt then I take it.
Quote:
Before the loss of Aiur, crippled Protoss warriors could volunteer to continue their service by transplanting their shattered remains into Dragoon exoskeletons. Tragically, the technology to continue this practice was lost in the rubble of their fallen homeworld. The remaining Dragoons, now known as Immortals, have been refitted with Twin Phase Disruptors and hardened energy shields. These heavily armed and shielded fighters give critical support by eliminating enemy artillery and ranged attackers, although they are vulnerable to rapid assaults from lesser foes. These ancient warriors are a dying breed willing to sacrifice everything for their people. Soon none will remain.
That cinematic is going to be the best thing ever. I'm going to watch it at least hundred times, I swear.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gradius
Anyway, sorry it's been a while since the last actual update, but here's the tentative newest version (new additions are the lurker, SC2 queen, and infested terran):
http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/7/...lineup1123.jpg
Well, pretend its like your contributing to the development of a game (I'm actually writing a starcraft rpg, but I digress).Quote:
I plan to, but you could also say that to be completely valid I need to draw 5 different vultures, 3 different firebats and marines, 2 different medics, like 10 different zerglings...
The marines only have one suit of armor. Everything else is effectively aesthetic differences (halo's permutations) - the suit might operate differently but it provides the same over all advantage. Medics basically wear the same armor as marines, with the exception of a shield which gives a greater advantage (more hp, or armor or whatever; in a game, I'm thinking of calling it protection which feels a bit more universal).
Firebat (SC 1) armor is actually bigger, but that's necessary because it needs added thermal layering - resultingly, the entire bulk is larger and firebats take a bit more cutting effort.
The new firebat armor (SC 2) is larger all around. The suit model isn't modified - it's a completely different model and the unit even counts as 'armored' instead of bio. The pilot sits in a seat, which is a semi-cock pit of sorts. The head is receded because the pilot is hoisted up, so that their head fits into the round helmet at the top.
The marauder wears the same model of suit, but the suit has been modified internally so that it supports different forearm weapons. The SC 1 firebat can be assumed to have less modding work because it's only involved an addition of hard points for his weapons.
----
What I'm trying to say is you only really need one marine, medic, etc. You draw two of something only when there's an obvious contrast between two things that you've seen. That'd create some slight fanon, but you'd only be doing it where necessary.
And technically you're entire effort is fanon, so it's okay (at least in my book).
Well maybe, they're referring to the dragoons. Production quota for immortals hasn't really kicked up in the lore yet and they might be lost to other interests before the war is over.Quote:
Hmmmmmmm... I guess the flavour text/background of the Immortal (on their homepage no less) is not worth a grain of salt then I take it.
I'm not saying they were few - I'm saying they got whiped out. They were on the front lines acting as shock troopers for other shock troopers (the latter in greater abundance). Dragoons are harder to come across than zealots (everyone in the templar caste is at least training to be a zealot, I figure; martial arts equivalent - you have to be nth degree master in an art/variety of complex and exotic arts, to serve in the military).Quote:
Not sure why you think dragoons had to be few in number, but the facility was abandoned because it was lost to the zerg on Aiur and it was technology they can't replicate.
Not really. A satellite is technically any orbitting object.Quote:
If they were some planetary satellite I would think they were much bigger.
So, thinking in pure physics - an observer can stay put and create its own gravitational lagragian points. It would become a satellite if not for its anti-grav inertial drive/thingy. Or maybe it already is, since it's technically being pulled and just isn't yielding.
For that matter, is the ISS a satellite? It doesn't orbit earth - it sits at a lagragian point, so that everything is stable.
The ones with positions of command and with the most experience mind you. The crafters that run the equivalent of defense companies, too. Nonetheless, tech is dated, maybe for that reason.Quote:
Keep in mind that all of our Protoss characters have also existed for hundreds of years. :P
Yeah I don't care enough to ask you about that. Nomads suck. :PQuote:
I don't want to draw the Nomad
Well, it looks like the site I was using for image hosting is dead, but, never fear, I'll find a new one for tonight's update, which is including some air units.
Just use photobucket or imageshack.
http://i.imgur.com/Uki2n.jpg
Well, here we are. Both the wraith and the banshee are pretty roughly sized based on their cockpits; if anyone has any reason for them to be different, please say so.
Much as I'd love to show you the Protoss and Zerg I'm working on, Terran are a lot quicker to just get out there, mostly because there's a lot more reference.
I'm not one for praise, however this is frickin awesome.
When your done every unit, categorize the terran please!
Also: How many gigs is the finished image going to be?
I will download it to my hard drive, and that will be the only thing that I'll have on my hard drive. And then it'll collect dust in my closet.
I have no idea how big the final file'll be, because I don't know how big this will end up. For the static image version, I'll have to have different sections of the image at different scales to fit the capital ships.
But, on the note of ships, here are two more, the medivac and the good ol' trusty Brood War dropship:
http://i.imgur.com/O3hQY.jpg
You'll note that this image conveniently shows them scaled with the units that have to fit inside them. In Starcraft Ghost, we see that only infantry fit inside, but we know that dropships are also used to carry tanks and goliaths, so I've scaled the older design to be just big enough to get a tank in there.
Does anyone think I should do the SC2:WoL campaign units? Like, the Odin, the robot panthers, spectres, the Hercules, etc.? Plus the Aberration and such. I'm leaning towards no, mostly because I thought the robot panthers were stupid, but if you want them I could add them at the end.
How is it that the medevac carries the same number of units as the dropship but is much smaller?
Lore reasons, I imagine. Medivac implies mostly infantry, while the dropship is more for tanks and large cargo. Makes perfect sense to me anyway.
Yup. You can see from the Hyperion's armory that medivacs are way too small to fit anything but infantry inside:
http://images.wikia.com/starcraft/im...WoL_Story1.jpg
(also, hmm, I should make the banshee and wraith bigger)
Starcraft Ghost shows us what the insides of the sleeker, smaller dropships look like, and there's just seats:
http://xboxmedia.ign.com/xbox/image/...2084425205.jpg
http://cubemedia.ign.com/cube/image/..._121703_x7.jpg
Of course, there's no definitive size for the SC1 dropship, because they never show it clearly to scale with anything, but, I'm down with Muspelli's explanation: It's a clunkier cargo ship, that would be big enough to transport tanks or goliaths. Yeah, that's pure speculation, but it seems good to me.
http://classic.battle.net/images/bro...xprot3prev.jpg
(You can see a couple of them at the bottom)
I have always imagined that the transport ship carries the tank below, as the medivac transported to thor
http://www.vilegaming.com/datas/reso...ss_Shuttle.jpg
http://images.wikia.com/starcraft/im..._SC2_Game1.jpg
Except maybe two tanks. But... fair enough.Quote:
Yup. You can see from the Hyperion's armory that medivacs are way too small to fit anything but infantry inside:
I think the larger ones are only equipped to carry a few tanks too (couldn't they only carry about 8 marines?). Can't remember, last time I played BW, honestly...
If you wanna fluff it up: BW era drop ships exist in a place where equipment needed to brought on site to an assault. It was a cargo redundancy, in case scvs wanted to bring equipment for an expansion too, etc. For whatever reason, the military infrastructure is good enough in sc 2 that dropships can be smaller (small enough that they only need to worry about the personnel and their kits).
The banshee is a lot closer to the screen than that dropship. So if you wanna modify the size in anyway, be careful. Personally, I think your estimate is good.Quote:
(also, hmm, I should make the banshee and wraith bigger)
Also, the valkyrie is only considered a frigate because it has a crew in an era where many many aircraft/spaceships are capable of operating with a crew of one. Valkyries are apparently quite small (according to the image you just showed us).
Delete please.
Quote:
Originally Posted by drakolobo
The great thing is, both of these explanations work together. You're right, a medivac could carry a tank attached to its underside, and that's a good solution— but it couldn't carry a couple of goliaths; I can't really see how they'd attach. But this works perfectly, because we know that by the time medivacs were in use, goliaths had been phased out for not being mobile enough, and replaced with the viking that could fly itself. The brood war dropship is big and clunky and obsolete.Quote:
I think the larger ones are only equipped to carry a few tanks too (couldn't they only carry about 8 marines?). Can't remember, last time I played BW, honestly...
If you wanna fluff it up: BW era drop ships exist in a place where equipment needed to brought on site to an assault. It was a cargo redundancy, in case scvs wanted to bring equipment for an expansion too, etc. For whatever reason, the military infrastructure is good enough in sc 2 that dropships can be smaller (small enough that they only need to worry about the personnel and their kits).
(incidentally, though, that reaver/shuttle fan-art is inaccurate, because in the SC manual it describes shuttles as being "large enough to carry even the massive reavers within their hulls.")
Update coming soon...
Speaking of which, do we even have any estimates on the Reaver's size? I remember artwork featuring the Colossi with a Dragoon and Reaver in the background, but given that they were minor background elements I don't know how far to trust it.
EDIT
Ah, here we go.
Yeah, the Shuttles would be pretty massive, but could house way more than four zealots.
http://images.wikia.com/starcraft/im...SC2_Cncpt1.jpg
http://images.wikia.com/starcraft/im...rApparent2.jpg
battlecruiser in of 550 meters
Yeah, that's the only picture that shows a reaver compared to anything else, as they were never in SCG. But there was a Shuttle in Ghost, and although I've only ever seen one screenshot of it from the back, the scale works out with the reaver/dragoon size from the SC2 concept.Quote:
Originally Posted by Visions of Khas
http://ps2media.ign.com/ps2/image/st..._033103_27.jpg
The ship in the middle of the screen is a scout from the rear (the player is piloting it, on what looks like just a test level). The shuttle is on the left, also shown kind of from the rear. Behind the nose of the scout, you can see a bit of a dragoon sticking out, and some Protoss units, including a glowing high templar are wayy in the back. They're all a bit further away, but you get a sense of the shuttle's size.
(Much too small to carry a colossus, of course, which is why phase prisms are obviously superior.)
And, yeah, thanks, drakolobo.
Edit: Won't have the Protoss cybernetic units done tonight, so I can't put this guy in to scale just yet, but here's the reaver's artwork. Man, I miss these guys.
http://i.imgur.com/xlvep.jpg
I've never seen any artwork of the Reaver that I'd call definitive, but... shit dude, that looks it. o_o
You on DeviantArt or anything like that? You have to have more artwork than just this stuff.
550, actually.Quote:
Originally Posted by drakolobo
And that image is a load of crap. I mean, it gives us velocity in feet-per-second (Imperial system... ugh.) distance from the Hyperion in unspecified "units", and then length/beam in metric units?
I think I need to go take a shower.
Welcome to 'murica.Quote:
And that image is a load of crap. I mean, it gives us velocity in feet-per-second (Imperial system... ugh.) distance from the Hyperion in unspecified "units", and then length/beam in metric units?
But by that I mean the sense that terrans are essentially 'muricans. So of course they use feet and meters in the same fancy package. Because they are mighty fine fancy people. o.0
I am an American, and I still think the Imperial system is crap. Mixing herbicide, never could remember if it's one or two tablespoons to the 1/4 cup.Quote:
Originally Posted by solidsamurai
Now, if America had gone with decimal inches so judging between a 9/32 and a 5/16 bolt on a car wouldn't play Old Harry with my eyesight, then I wouldn't complain as much.
Americans can't agree on anything can they (that's kinda why the imperial system still exists at all)? They should just be submissive and apathetic like Canadians. :PQuote:
I am an American, and I still think the Imperial system is crap. Mixing herbicide, never could remember if it's one or two tablespoons to the 1/4 cup.
Now, if America had gone with decimal inches so judging between a 9/32 and a 5/16 bolt on a car wouldn't play Old Harry with my eyesight, then I wouldn't complain as much.
I wonder if there's any Canadians in the K-sector...
If there are, they probably live on Braxis.:DQuote:
Originally Posted by solidsamurai
I thought I would escape from it. I thought that a career in Engineering would let me leave the Imperial System behind. Then my Statics teacher informed us that we'd be converting between the two systems and using them throughout our careers. And he had a new unit he wanted to introduce to us called the 'kilopound'...Quote:
Originally Posted by solidsamurai
Face it. If there were any Canadians on the colony ships, they would have had to coexist with angry southern rednecks armed with power armor and fully automatic anti-materiel rifles. They're probably still in hiding.Quote:
Originally Posted by solidsamurai
What bothers me most about that image is that the stated length and width are esentially impossibly true because of the dimensions it gives the vessel. It would mean the battlecruiser is thin as a needle, but it obviously isn't when you look at the model... it's nearly as wide as it is long.