Hey guys. I am new to the membership of the site but I have followed it for quite some time. It's awesome to know there are fans as avid about StarCraft as I am!
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Hey guys. I am new to the membership of the site but I have followed it for quite some time. It's awesome to know there are fans as avid about StarCraft as I am!
I thought that this newly released image of the HotS cinematic might help with your size project. :)
http://media.blizzard.com/sc2/media/...-1920x1080.jpg
Here's the site for it: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/media/wa...?view#/wall012
I wonder if the Ultralisks are being weighed down under their own bulk, or lowing their heads like that so their crest absorbs the damage and protects their body. Or maybe a combination? I've wondered if their enlarged heads are used to protect their body from aerial assault.
Judging by the recently released HotS opening cinematic, it appears that your Ultralisk is actually a little bit small O.o The space underneath the Ultra is easily enough for a Crucio tank and a half.
By extension, I guess that would make your Overlord too small as well :(
Yup, absolutely. I was so glad for that shot of the ultra running after the tank. And, hey, Nydus worm! Thought it and the Leviathan looked a bit bland, actually, but, the size was great.
http://sclegacy.com/features/events/...ur%20brood.jpg
http://sclegacy.com/features/events/...n%20visits.jpg
I've actually got a lot of new material to work with now from the new singleplayer screenshots as well. Kerrigan standing next to a Queen, perfect! Zerglings, hydras, roaches and banelings together! Turns out banelings are almost twice as big as I thought they'd be, too, never thought they were roach-sized. Which means I'll probably want to make the scourge larger, too, to emphasize that it's supposed to be much more powerful. Also looks like there'll be a couple of new Protoss ships to draw, too.
Most importantly, perhaps, is the confirmation that there will indeed be a model of the leviathan for the campaign. So, when more pictures arise, I can draw that one instead of having to make up my own details.
http://sclegacy.com/features/events/...er%20space.jpg
Soon it will be time to start drawing again. Dozens of new pictures to do. :P
Rob, what about the last Q&A, where Kindregan says the (possibly) largest Behemoth Battlecruiser ever is only 552m long?
Was the BC falling from the sky about the size you imagined?
A third, unrelated question... I see your marines are still about 1 meter high :) Does the massive ships use the same scale? Do you plan to recalculate anything?
I must have missed that Q/A bit... Ugh... Here's the thing: Here's a picture of one of the longest ships in the world, at about 450 meters.Quote:
Originally Posted by TcheQuevara
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...nock_Nevis.jpg
Looking at the windows on it, and looking at the windows of Starcraft 2's Hyperion,
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__...2_DevRend1.jpg
...yeah, it is possible that the SC2 Behemoth Battlecruiser is only a hundred meters longer. Seems likely, in fact.
It's just that SCBW's battlecruisers are just twice as big. They have much smaller windows. There's no getting around it. Check out Shadow Archon's calculations back on page 26: http://sclegacy.com/forums/showthrea...ictures/page26 I didn't precisely agree with them, but you can see that, even with a huge margin of error, there's no way that ship is 550m. So this 550 number is a retcon. I'll probably indicate somewhere that they've been retconned into being smaller, and finally draw the new Hyperion design.
I'd like to see him try to guess at the size of those buildings and of the battlecruiser from the HotS intro, too, I haven't yet looked at it enough to tell if it's good or not– I'm guessing it matches up with WoL's Hyperion model, since it's the same model/type of Cruiser (maybe it even was the Hyperion? Since this is a dream. But I'm probably asking for too much in hoping they would make a separate Minotaur model this time around), but they might not be being consistent.
About the marine: come on, the scale marker is a tiny bit off, but not that bad. :P Yeah, the marine is like a foot too short, should be like 7ft tall.
I'm actually going to be recalculating/redrawing or at least editing a lot. Like, after making some rough 3D models of some terran ships, it turns out my drawings weren't perfect; I had a tendency to overestimate wing angles and underestimate tail-length and things, and once the proportions are different they'll have to be rescaled. Plus, for example, the Viking ship-mode drawing just looks like crap compared to the nice new cinematic one, so stuff like that'll be replaced. We'll see if I actually put more effort into the presentation, like having everything on a nice chart with lines or something. That could look good.
They also indicated that the cattlebruiser is 86 meters wide, and we all know that this is a bulls**t measurement. I would take their numbers with a grain of salt.
EDIT: Also, holy crap, Queens are tiny :/
What kind of oil tanker is that, Robear?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seawise_GiantQuote:
Originally Posted by Visions of Khas
Oh, I couldn't tell if it was a ULCC or VLCC. A ULCC is onlt 415m in length, not 450. But that doesn't change the fact that it provides a good representation of scale for the BC. :)
EDIT No, this particular model IS 458m. Wow, guess my sources were out of date. XD
EDIT 2: I did some quick measurements based on the windows of that ULCC. And the canon width measurement of 82.4 meters seems to hold for the foreward, hammer-head section of the Battlecruiser, but naturally doesn't hold true for the "wings". Huh, interesting.
I don't know if you've seen the project that I've been working on, reconstructing this stuff in minecraft, but I already have the frame for the battlecruiser: the hammerhead is MUCH wider than 82 meters. 82 meters might make up half of it. Maybe.
Haha, yeah you're right. I forgot that we decided each window was about 3 meters tall and wide. So comparing to that ULCC doesn't do it justice. Besides, the BC that falls over Korhal is much bigger than that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Topsecret
Not to mention we still don't know if that model is what a behemoth, minotaur or gorgon class is supposed to look like. :/
(Ignore that window dimension thing, though, of all the things to get hung up on it's probably not very important.)
I guess I'll just have to draw everything ever.
Maybe they're talking about the Loki? O.o
Haha, no, they said Gorgon class. We just don't know what those look like.
Edit: The Loki is a super-type battlecruiser. As for Gorgon class battlecruisers, they appear identical to Minotaur-classes if the Bucephalus is anything to go by. Just don't know the dimensions of Minotaurs.
Aaand, no surprises here, the battlecruiser in the cinematic completely contradicts the Q/A 550m figure. So, I'm just gonna go ahead and leave in my old, over-a-kilometer-long behemoth, if that's alright with everyone. :P
http://i.imgur.com/dXBhh2X.jpg
^ Can't argue with the logic here. Bonus points for pointing out that this...was...all... a...DREAM! :D
Nice chart. Agree completely, and unfortunately, I think we'll just have to chalk it up to "the writers have no sense of scale".
What is the size of the ultralisk, considering that the Crucio is 5 meters tall?
I'd guess they're about 80' tall? Like, 24 meters?
http://i.imgur.com/e0CFS1s.jpg
It's obviously hard to tell because the ultralisk is running, and tilting its head, and there's more perspective stuff going on in this shot. And if my old ultralisk drawing's head-shield is differently proportioned it will throw things off.
The Zerg in the video could be an Omegalisk/Torrasque/Whateverlisk instead of a standard ultra. It would make more sense, 25m tall ultras don't feel right to me.
Considering how many there were, and how consistent their size was, I'd venture to say they were actually Ultras. Also, they were at 81' whilst head tilted down and one leg raised up for a stomp, etc. may be a meter or two shorter.
Well, it's obviously different than we were lead to believe with pictures like this,
http://good-wallpapers.com/pictures/...0Ultralisk.jpg
but, hey, it solves the problem of the air units being ridiculous larger than the ground units. Here are the sizes for the ground units based on the intro (unfortunately it's too hard for me to tell much of anything about the viking because of the angle, I'll have to figure that out later).
http://i.imgur.com/lj0iOsr.jpg
(I'll need to draw the SC2 wing-zergling, too, since the design is just so much bulkier than the more Ghost-y one I have)
Edit: I did that. Also the zerglings from the old cinematics. Good to see some diversity in there, and it feels good to be drawing again. :)
http://i.imgur.com/vky7YLw.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/Gc43deb.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/T7U7aiY.jpg
Alright, that's pretty cool. Interesting model evolution, honestly. It just keeps getting thicker ;)
I'm actually convinced that Samwise Didear always wanted them to be thick, and just had to wait until he was completely in charge to fatten them up—
http://www.gamer.ru/system/attached_...jpg?1292361332
I'd imagine the spindly cinematic model was just there because it was easier to animate. And they reused half the pieces from the hydralisk model. :P
I think I'm also going to draw the version from the in-game sprites next, and then I'll start doing the actual HotS units.
http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__...g_SC1_Art1.jpg
I've updated all the old ground units' sizes to fit with the new information so far. This is also far more precise than previous iterations— this image is to the nice, easy scale of 20 pixels = 1 meter: (Warning, 8000 pixel-wide image.)
Edit: Here's a go at the sprite Zergling model.
http://i.imgur.com/cylrvEa.jpg
The pink team color might be kind of funny. Here's an orange-ish one, with the other Zerglings:
http://i.imgur.com/GiWxsMQ.jpg
I did the Viper.
http://i.imgur.com/fpGNTmT.jpg
I'm also cutting up and re-proportioning those ships I made 3D models of to make them have longer tails and stuff. It won't really be too noticeable without a side by side comparison, but it's important.
As I eagerly anticipate all the new information HotS will bring to the table... Here is an Extractor:
http://i5.minus.com/iM7oASagaL2Tm.jpg
I am NOT planning to do all the buildings. It would probably take around 200 hours. I'm not doing that. But I may do 1 or 2 from each race (say, Command Center, Missile Turret, Extractor, Hatchery, Pylon, Citadel of Adun), to throw in there.
This is how big I imagine they are (taller than the Ultra, shorter than the Nydus Worm), but hopefully we'll see some Zerg bases in HotS and I can adjust it (although I'm sure the size of the extractor would vary depending on the size and quantity of the vespene geyser):
http://i.imgur.com/6o1x57k.jpg
Also note the two overlords in there, the smaller one is based on this excellent new official overlord/marine art:
http://i.imgur.com/QBhO0FG.jpg
While the other is scaled to be able to conceivably lift ultralisks. I'll just say the big one has the ventral sacs upgrade.
Also, found another cinematic shot, with Vikings and Marines.
http://i.imgur.com/hnO150Z.jpg
Damn their guns are huge.
More a general response than specific quotes, as it would make this response too cluttered with images. So, in regards to the images above:
-I like the incorporation of the SC1 zergling into the chart. May have been pointed out somewhere in the previous 42 pages, but assuming the one between the SC1 zergling and the 'wing ling' is based on the Ghost design, I think it makes a nice look at how zerglings could be said to have changed over the years. Granted, it's kind of a moot point due to the retroactive artwork in the series, but still...
The sprite model though...well, on one hand, it certainly harkens back to the old zergling portrait. On the other, it looks a bit too dinosaur-esque to my eyes. Kind of like an evolutionary offshoot rather than a progression, as per the above comments.
-Viper looks okay. Is it going on the master image of all the unit depictions?
-You deserve a lot of credit for the extractor. I imagine that drawing buildings isn't as thrilling as drawing units, but damn, the detail on the thing. You've got the zerg's organic mass, but also got bloody bone interwoven with it. Heck, even on the scale the extractor looks intimidating.:eek:
-The marine/overlord art...was it actually confirmed to be an overlord? I've seen the image before, but until now, I had no idea what the zerg strain actually was.
-Do you have a source for the cinematic shot, as in, any others that you can point us to?
-So yeah. Hopefully HotS will get the creative juices flowing (or creep). But all in all, good job.
Yeah... I admit it never really looked right to me (though that's true of a bunch of these drawings), I've never been quite able to capture the original look the way, say, Project Revolution did.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawki
http://media.moddb.com/images/mods/1/4/3704/47853.gif
http://media.moddb.com/images/mods/1/4/3704/47857.jpg
http://media.moddb.com/images/mods/1/4/3704/47856.jpg
For now, I'll just take it out. :X
Of course! I'll just wait for HotS on the off chance it shows up in an artwork or concept art to scale somewhere.Quote:
-Viper looks okay. Is it going on the master image of all the unit depictions?
Not confirmed, but it's definitely an overlord, you can tell especially by the single line of overlapping plates down the middle.Quote:
-The marine/overlord art...was it actually confirmed to be an overlord? I've seen the image before, but until now, I had no idea what the zerg strain actually was.
http://www.theuen.com/images/overlord.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/SxIrhCH.jpg
The head on it just looks like a million times better version of the terribly mediocre SC2 portrait.
No, I screengrabbed it from a trailer playing in front of a video over on the Escapist. Here's another frame of it, but this new scene was only on there for a fraction of a second.Quote:
-Do you have a source for the cinematic shot, as in, any others that you can point us to?
http://i.imgur.com/OGeCtKH.png
Thanks!
Also, here's a Hatchery. It's not as good as the extractor, the models had fewer details to reference, and my random zergy improvisation doesn't look so great in that whole middle area. I'll keep tinkering with it, but, not bad.
http://i.imgur.com/faxtVFJ.jpg
I'm actually thinking it should be pretty small. I want to make it so that a drone could conceivably squeeze up those black tubes, and so that a Queen could come out of the top, but it shouldn't be too big as all it really produces are larvae. Let the lair and hive be the giant ones.
For now I threw it in like this, but, it and the extractor are too big, I think.
http://i.imgur.com/d0wZx3G.jpg
The only issue I have with the sizing of that overlord is that you have no idea how close it is to the marine. There's no absolute depth, so it could be that the overlord is quite a ways back, and it looks smaller than it is... or something.
Quote:
Originally Posted by topsecret221
Yeah, you're right, but the SCG overlords are even smaller, so it doesn't hurt to have something besides that absurdly huge guy in there. I might even take him out entirely and just leave it up to Blizzard to explain how the SC2 ultra gets around.
In a similar vein, all of the Zerg air units will probably be smaller this time around, since, based on that video Hawki posted, they clearly want the mutalisks to be much smaller than their SC1/SCG counterparts. I admit that not making mutalisks big enough to pick up marines in their mouths like they could in Ghost does make them match their ingame size much better, but it makes them really tiny compared to protoss ships... Oh well, Blizzard's problem, not mine.
Working on a command center. Looks like this atm.
http://i.imgur.com/YOhxqsQ.jpg
And here's how big I think it should be. People fit in the observation deck, SCVs fit up the main ramp. A tank could maybe narrowly drive under it.
http://i.imgur.com/kuklzkK.jpg
Hey, it wound up having the same diameter as the hatchery! Great.
My current crisis is, HotS won't run unless I upgrade my computer's OS (currently on Mac OS 10.6), but I'm putting this project together in Flash, and my version of Flash won't run if I do upgrade my OS. So no HotS for me yet! And I'm trying to stay away from spoilers!
I may resort to playing on lowest-lowest settings on a 7-year-old PC, since it still works in Windows XP. That way I'll get to play through it and at least see all the cutscenes this week. Then I can extensively screenshot all the new size info. :)
I have seen the Leviathan in it's full glory, and, ahh, it's beautiful. Love the size.
For now, here's the colored command center and another nice, high res image. Also beautiful.
http://i.imgur.com/EXqYs1P.jpg
OKAY, I HAVE PLAYED THE CAMPAIGN.
And, boy, is there is a lot to take in. Not only size information, but a surprising number of new units. Images from HotS below, but no spoilers.
First, size info. Here are the new size comparisons we got (some stuff, like Zeratul, is just reiterated from WoL):
Kerrigan walking into the cockpit of a dropship— she has to duck through the door, but has standing room inside. At least 2m high at the point where the cockpit meets the main body of the ship, and then tapers down like it does from the outside.
http://i.imgur.com/IgOkjwT.jpg
She is in a special hero dropship, but this seems consistent with marines being able to walk down the main ramp. Again reaffirms that the dropship model we keep seeing is exclusively for infantry units. No way a crucio siege tank could fit in, let alone 2.
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4129/...c7361fe718.jpg
Kerrigan and Banelings— so, these banelings are a bit under 1.5m high, I suppose:
http://i.imgur.com/U2dNkX9.jpg
Kerrigan with a Zergling— although they're not on level ground.
http://i.imgur.com/pazBStp.jpg
Kerrigan with Za'gara, a Brood Mother. If you look on the edge of that spawning pool bit, there's a tiny little larva.
http://i.imgur.com/etdRiwA.jpg
Maybe all larva are supposed to be that small, maybe not. I'll shrink mine a little.
Not new news, but, in a cinematic, a landed Viking can easily fire over marines' heads. Consistent with other viking portrayals.
http://i.imgur.com/FOBctiK.jpg
Okay, this one's the slightest bit spoilery, but not for the plot or anything. It just shows the units that fill the evolution chamber, like the Hyperion's armory:
http://www.blizzplanet.com/wp-conten...tion-pit-1.jpg
Oddly, given that Baneling/Kerrigan picture from before, this makes the roach and hydra look kind of small. The interesting part— you can tell in the game that that Mutalisk is even behind the Ultralisk, since its animation takes it behind the eggs that the ultralisk is in front of. If this ultralisk were the size of the ones in the opening cinematic, that would make the mutalisk monstrously large. But, I guess it's just a small ultralisk, for some reason... And, we're back to inconsistant, therefore useless "I guess Zerg just come in all different sizes." Still, this is a far more plausible size for Overlords to carry.
It does give something to go on for the Swarm Host! No Vipers, though.
Unfortunately we also get no look at detailed Overlords. :(
Now, these images are spoilers. Click through only if you've already seen the game's cinematics, even if you don't care about spoilers, they'll be cooler in motion/context.
Okay, on to all the new units!
Firstly, the Primal Zerg. There are a lot of them. With a lot of variations. And several hero characters. I won't be drawing any of them, except perhaps just the one. There are just too many, with no actual indication of their size.
I also won't be drawing all the Zerg evolution/variations. A couple of them are interesting, but most are just palette swaps with a couple of extra spikes, and it would be too many. :(
Surprisingly, there were over a dozen new Terran units as well. The Hyperion finally got a custom in-game model, and we got a new Gorgon-class battlecruiser (the type that the Bucephalus was supposed to be) as well! Yes! So, I can draw those.
We also saw a pirate cruiser (which I may or may not draw), a variety of space stations and weapons platforms (which I will not be drawing), and a variety of new terran fightercraft: "Griffons" (the Terran 'Phoenix' model from the SC2 alpha) "Tac fighters," which are completely new, and "Valkyries," which in no way resemble BW's Valkyries, another unused model from early SC2WoL. These I will draw.
The only new Protoss unit is called a "Shuttle," though it's more of a colonist transport ship. Will be drawing that one!
There were also a few more custom terran units— a super-hellion with extra armor and guns, a super-Viking, a version of the Colonist ship with guns, security bots, armored bulldozer things— these I won't draw.
And, I think that about covers it?
Lots to do!
Yeah, there's a lot of information from HotS to help you out; I can't wait to see what you do with it. I just wanted to post this shot from the Choices cinematic comparing Raynor's dropship to the Hyprion. The DS looks a bit big to me, so perhaps Behemoth battlecruisers aren't as large as we thought?
Attachment 2248
Another thing I just realized is that the holographics on the Hyprion during the Choices cinematic depict battlecruisers of two sizes, one significantly smaller than the other. Check it out.
Attachment 2249
One thing to note about that "largest battlecruisers are 550m long" retcon is that that figure was about the Bucephalus, a Gorgon class battlecruiser. But now we've seen that Gorgon battlecruisers in the game are much much longer than other BCs, so that makes Behemoths (post-retcon) and Minotaurs even smaller if they're in proportion. I'll be leaving in the giant BW BC (with a footnote that it's been retconned out of existence), but I'll draw the SC2 Hyperion model and also call it a Behemoth.Quote:
Originally Posted by Visions of Khas
http://i.imgur.com/I9aJi2R.jpg
HOLY CRAP, YOU'RE RIGHT! THANK YOU!Quote:
Another thing I just realized is that the holographics on the Hyprion during the Choices cinematic depict battlecruisers of two sizes, one significantly smaller than the other. Check it out.
Here's a youtube link if anyone else would like to see, and another picture:
http://i.imgur.com/jA8raXf.jpg
They're really small, though. I guess the big ones are Gorgons and the tiny ones are Minotaurs? They're realllly tiny.
(One other thing I forgot to mention in my previous post— yay, Leviathan side view. Makes my job much easier. :P)
http://i.imgur.com/pmITFDb.jpg
In other news, the lore is fucked. Carry on gents.
I'm pretty sure the battlecruisers are only small to give a feeling of distance/depth.Quote:
Originally Posted by Robear
Yeeeah, I'm inclined to just ignore the figures given to us by Brian Kindregan. They're obviously wrong. So I would guess the smaller cruisers are Minotaurs -- they seem like fast strike cruisers -- and larger ones are Behemoths. The Gorgons would probably dwarf anything on that holo display. (I don't think there were any Gorgons in Choices, since the Hyperion is of the larger class and is a Behemoth.)Quote:
One thing to note about that "largest battlecruisers are 550m long" retcon is that that figure was about the Bucephalus, a Gorgon class battlecruiser.
If you refer to my attachment you'll see two smaller cruisers hugging close to the Hyperion. They're consistent in size and are clearly as close to the viewer.Quote:
I'm pretty sure the battlecruisers are only small to give a feeling of distance/depth.
I'm inclined to agree with VoK. Sci-fi writers have no sense of scale
May I introduce you to David Weber? Thank you.Quote:
Originally Posted by topsecret221