What is a Psionic Potential?
THis sounds to me sort of like the 'force' powers that the ghosts possess, although it is very unlike star wars. I understood that Doran Routhe was a wealthy scientist who loaded 50,000 prisoners into the four inter-planetary spaceships to do space traveling experiment, but the part that struck me most is the mention of the 'psionic potential' less than 1% of the prisoners.
So what are they? The Confederates seems also possessed in gathering these people up and do experiments on them, turning them to Ghosts.
I wonder what sort of power they possess, and just how different they are compare to the marines and civilians?
Is there a hidden connection between these Terrans with psionic potential with the Zerg and Protoss? If so, and would it be considered as just another missing piece of the secrets to Psionic energy?
Re: What is a Psionic Potential?
You've pretty much answered your own questions. 'Psionic potential' is exactly that - the potential to use psionics (in all sci-fiction it's just a term to denote willpower being manifested physically or magic). Ghosts would be the most powerful (as of yet) expression of Terran psionic might. The psionic potential in Terrans was what the Overmind was looking for so it could harness it and use it against the Protoss.
Re: What is a Psionic Potential?
Re: What is a Psionic Potential?
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Originally Posted by
personamyth
THis sounds to me sort of like the 'force' powers that the ghosts possess, although it is very unlike star wars. I understood that Doran Routhe was a wealthy scientist who loaded 50,000 prisoners into the four inter-planetary spaceships to do space traveling experiment, but the part that struck me most is the mention of the 'psionic potential' less than 1% of the prisoners.
I wonder what sort of power they possess, and just how different they are compare to the marines and civilians?
Is there a hidden connection between these Terrans with psionic potential with the Zerg and Protoss? If so, and would it be considered as just another missing piece of the secrets to Psionic energy?
1) The UPL got rid of mutants, some of whom (according to the original manual) had "advanced telepathic" abilities. No doubt some of them went on the colony ships, and their descendants would be more likely to be psychics.
Less than 1% of terrans have psionic potential (I assume this means potentially psychic, or could have psychic offspring), and this figure looks to rise in future generations. Contrast with the protoss. All protoss are psychic. Even protoss cut off from the Khala simply develop new abilities (even if they don't want to -- as made clear in the Twilight Archon short manga story).
It is similar to the Force, or more to the point, the "midi-chlorian count", which was controversial in Star Wars because a genetic basis had never been mentioned before, but it actually made sense - Luke Skywalker was the son of a (former) Jedi, after all. (The Jedi Council acted so stupidly in the prequel movies. Not only do they forbid Jedi from breeding, so there's no concentration of powerful Force-users, but they wanted to restore "balance" in the Force when they were already winning. They got exactly what was coming to them.)
2) They have mind-reading abilities. Most terran psychics are far weaker than protoss, and only high PI psychics like Sarah Kerrigan or Nova Terra could be considered in the same category.
3) There's no connection. Terran psionics evolved (well, was probably engineered by pre-UPL scientists) prior to first contact with either species.
The zerg cannot seem to write genetic code, but they can copy it. By copying a psychic terran (Kerrigan) it seemed the Overmind wanted to use that to defeat the protoss. However, it was probably a "trick" against its directive to use an intelligent independent leader other than itself to lead the Swarm. The Overmind did not order Kerrigan to go to Aiur, nor did it seem to make any breeds more powerful psionically. Contrast with Kerrigan, who tried several times to create intelligent leaders before focusing on queens, who are classified (in-game) as "psionic".
Re: What is a Psionic Potential?
For doing some studies these days, actually I just like to say that 'Psionic' abilities is actually sort of another name for psychics. I think its fascinating because its actually referring to the area of Parapsychology which talks about the controversial issues about humans able to move objects (telekinesis) or being able to read minds (telepathy) its actually quite true...alot of the scientists still don't believe that humans are able to move objects without touching, because they just think that the evidences aren't enough to support such strange and unexplainable occurances.
However, there are those who believe such things exist. I'm one of them and I wouldn't be surprised that if in the future human race, we become more understanding towards such subject and tend to become more knowledgable about it.
Re: What is a Psionic Potential?
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Originally Posted by
personamyth
the controversial issues about humans able to move objects (telekinesis) or being able to read minds (telepathy) its actually quite true...
It breaks thermodynamics, has no known mechanisms in nature that can support it (What biological organ transmits? What biological organ receives? What biological organ interprets?) and has no basis in human or animal evolution; No animals show telepathic or telekinetic abilities.
It is not possible, not without the aid of technology; Cell phones and RC vehicles technically being a sort of telepathy and telekinetics, but I assume you mean something else entirely.
Re: What is a Psionic Potential?
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It breaks thermodynamics, has no known mechanisms in nature that can support it (What biological organ transmits? What biological organ receives? What biological organ interprets?) and has no basis in human or animal evolution; No animals show telepathic or telekinetic abilities.
It is not possible, not without the aid of technology; Cell phones and RC vehicles technically being a sort of telepathy and telekinetics, but I assume you mean something else entirely.
It's pseudo science. Supposedly the use of 'charisma' indicates some inherant level of telepathy - not necessarily mind control, but understanding. A human that can communicate better with another human instinctively develops a greater amount of trust in that other individual (if we didn't have this, we wouldn't have friends or probably any definition of love beyond nurturing and lust) - it occurs on the subsconscious level.
In neuroscience, this could be related to the thalamus (which is a part of the brain associated with speech in some way; I skimmed that wiki-article). However, wikipedia also defines charisma as a supernatural ability (meaning it hasn't been fully/properly studied; EDIT: They now refer to as a 'divinely conferred power or talent', which is the same thing). So, extrapolating - it's a somewhat hard SF reason for telepathy at least (on moh's sliding scale of sci-fi hardness).
Telekinesis? That's much softer. Probably related to quantum mechanics in some way (changing universal outcomes and adjusting probabilities, which via telekinesis - occurs as we observe rather than before we observe, which would be more in accordance to Schroedinger's Cat). If a telekinetic person moves an object, and that's the only telekinetic thing he's capable of - that's probably because that's the only thing he can imagine he's capable of doing. With extensive (probably meditative) training, he could also modify what shows up on a computer screen, for example.
Everyone's brain is probably drastically different in this way - especially if we're discussing quantum mechanics (which proposes nigh infinite outcomes, with no identifiable source - although, for starcraft, you could say the source is the 'void', the khala, some other parallel pocket universe that arbiters use, or whatever).
Re: What is a Psionic Potential?
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Originally Posted by
solidsamurai
It's pseudo science.
Of course it is. Telepathy has no current basis in reality. It is wishful thinking at best, the exception being the inclusion of technologically induced telepathy, an ability, as already explained, we possess today.
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Originally Posted by
solidsamurai
Supposedly the use of 'charisma' indicates some inherant level of telepathy - not necessarily mind control, but understanding. A human that can communicate better with another human instinctively develops a greater amount of trust in that other individual (if we didn't have this, we wouldn't have friends or probably any definition of love beyond nurturing and lust) - it occurs on the subsconscious level.
You know, you make a good case. I both agree and disagree however. What you explain here is to me not telepathy. It is however another concept, that is a bit more understood and not to mention more "real": Cold reading.
I normally would not consider cold reading telepathy (call a spade a spade and all that), but sure, one could argue that it is. With cold reading one is able to read out of reactions from a person what this person thinks and feels, and can therefore act accordingly. With manipulative methods one can get a person to think what one wants the person to think as well (and I mean more than just making the person think you are psychic).
Charisma, not at a subconscious level, but a conscious one.
Derren Brown is a pretty known illusionist that employ cold reading and manipulative tactics in his acts. Most likely through conscious charisma as you explained. Now I know him being an illusionist that most of his acts are probably pure illusions in the sense that the audience is in on it or he employ camera tricks. But I trust his ability to manipulate people through using conscious methods that our subconscious picks up. Why? I have been manipulated by him myself this way. So I do follow your charisma argument.
Still thou, I would not call it telepathy. Especially not the classical kind that is used in most science fiction (hearing voices or feeling feelings being transmitted by others).
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Originally Posted by
solidsamurai
Everyone's brain is probably drastically different in this way - especially if we're discussing quantum mechanics (which proposes nigh infinite outcomes, with no identifiable source - although, for starcraft, you could say the source is the 'void', the khala, some other parallel pocket universe that arbiters use, or whatever).
Yeah, I would say the "physics" problem that telepathy have (thermodynamics, inverse square law etc.) can be solved by energy or a type of particle behaving at a level we cannot yet grasp or have discovered. Through what they call the Khala or the Void. And somehow this (or these) forms of energy or particles can be manipulated by organisms.
Thou if someone or something evolved or used telepathy, one would be damn sure that science eventually would figure out how it worked, and said energy or particle would be discovered and exploited in "no time". In the StarCraft universe based on what telepaths are able to do, as well as the existence of items such as the psi screen, one would assume a deep scientific understanding already is the case.
Re: What is a Psionic Potential?
You're thinking of empathy (includes reading reactions and thinking in someone else's shoes, among others) and the live application of probability law. Again, those are other things. Not everyone is empathetic, but pretty much everyone responds to charisma in some way. Empathy is pretty much a feature of personality - an empathetic person is more likely to behave a certain way towards others than someone who is not empathetic.
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Still thou, I would not call it telepathy. Especially not the classical kind that is used in most science fiction (hearing voices or feeling feelings being transmitted by others).
Yet, we're arguing that telephonics is a form of telepathy. So why not charisma? StarCraft says that every terran has some degree of telepathy, so it would make sense - at least in the StarCraft universe - if charisma is that subtle level of 'rock bottom' telepathy.
Comparing charisma to actual balls-to-the-wall mind reading though, is like comparing an eight year old's arithmetic to the years of research conducted by a mathematician with a PHD. It's still math.
Re: What is a Psionic Potential?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
solidsamurai
You're thinking of empathy (includes reading reactions and thinking in someone else's shoes, among others) and the live application of probability law.
The way I interpret charisma as telepathy is a persons ability to manipulate other persons to think what he wants them to think, or do what he wants them to do, and all through built up trust and understanding of each other.
No woo woo transmission of emotions or messages through space and time.
A sad face on a charismatic person COULD make a person sad, but not while they are in different rooms and nobody can see each other. Thus I do not think charisma is fitting as telepathy in the sci-fi (or real for that matter) sense. Only as a curiosity that shares similarities.
With that, I would say that Charisma needs empathy to work. Charisma is after all a compelling charm or attractiveness that can inspire others. But without empathy you cannot convince others as you have no idea what the person would want. Group telepathy is useless in a covert mission behind enemy lines.
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Originally Posted by
solidsamurai
Not everyone is empathetic, but pretty much everyone responds to charisma in some way.
Depends on the person and the message they are trying to "transmit". Say a code to get out from a prison is to answer "5" after someone says "2+2 equals what". No matter how charismatic you are, you can not convince me that 2+2 is 5. Not alone, and not without compelling evidence or proper context. And it gets worse if you try to convince me of this while I am locked away in an unknown to you location nearby with you having no way of contacting me other than through thought transmission.
The way I see telepathy is you would be able to communicate with me while I am imprisoned and relay this message to my mind somehow, or alternatively sense where I am and come rescue me... or both. Things that I do not see any amount of charisma doing, ever!
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Originally Posted by
solidsamurai
Yet, we're arguing that telephonics is a form of telepathy. So why not charisma?
As I said, call a spade a spade. If Charisma is telepathy; then telepathy is Charisma, two words meaning the same. Unless you can branch the concept of Charisma up into distinct and different parts. I.e. you have "charisma" and you have "this other thing" that is quite similar to charisma, but is not it.
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Originally Posted by
solidsamurai
StarCraft says that every terran has some degree of telepathy, so it would make sense - at least in the StarCraft universe - if charisma is that subtle level of 'rock bottom' telepathy.
And it would also make sense that empathy is also a sign of this form of "telepathy" as some are a lot better at it than others: namely the more empathic ones. With more empathy you would be able to convey thoughts better and more efficiently as you understand how people work.
However I do not think telepathy in StarCraft is charisma, its "magic".
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Originally Posted by
solidsamurai
Comparing charisma to actual balls-to-the-wall mind reading though, is like comparing an eight year old's arithmetic to the years of research conducted by a mathematician with a PHD. It's still math.
I disagree, the two cannot be compared because charisma is not mind reading, its being (naturally or "divinly") good at manipulating or inspire others. Through this manipulation or inspiration, you can convey thoughts or emotions. But one also needs empathy to do this better. This sort of thing is done through knowledge or experience. No matter how much you improve through reading or through experimenting, you cannot read peoples thoughts... you can only guess. You can guess good, but nowhere near word for word thoughts or images. Especially not over distance while they cannot see you to be subject to your charisma.
Balls-to-the-wall mind reading only through technology or "magic"... which is another way of saying "technology or biology we do not currently possess or understand".
Re: What is a Psionic Potential?
Do you guys believe in Telepathy or the existence of Telekinesis?
Re: What is a Psionic Potential?
In a word, no.
In a few more words, telepathy might exist in some form depending on how you define it-certainly the brain's electrical signals can translate into actions with the proper equipment, of moving objects with 'the power of thought.' However, this is simply the translation of electrical signals. In the sense of reading minds however, no. As for telekinesis, I hardly see that existing.
Re: What is a Psionic Potential?
Telepathy, as in the ability to share thoughts or send mental commands, is probably going to be one of the ten biggest things technology will grant us this century, before destroying our souls and minds in a vast technological singularity. But as it stands right now, telepathy falls under the purview of "Coincidences" or "Trickery".
As Hawki said, it's less likely technology will give us telekinesis, for the same reason that telekinesis is more doubtful than telepathy. Not only does it require some freaky abilities in the brain, but it also requires an unknown force that can act at a distance.
I find that the following quote from Wikipedia sums up telekinesis quite well.
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Many of India's "godmen" have claimed macro-PK abilities and demonstrated apparently miraculous phenomena in public, although as more controls are put in place to prevent trickery, fewer phenomena are produced.
Re: What is a Psionic Potential?
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Many of India's "godmen" have claimed macro-PK abilities and demonstrated apparently miraculous phenomena in public, although as more controls are put in place to prevent trickery, fewer phenomena are produced.
So pretty much the same answer to everything supernatural.
The more controlled an experiment is, the fewer the miracles.
Re: What is a Psionic Potential?
Are we going to talk about StarCraft in this thread at some point?
Re: What is a Psionic Potential?
