-
"Fix" Game Speeds in HoTS & LoTV
The speed at which you can play the game: a relic from SC1 that needs to be fixed. Who honestly plays on different speeds? And what's with those maps in the custom games list that don't play at fastest? They should "fix" this feature because:
1) There will be no more measuring things in "units of game time," which is absurd. The timer will tick at the real time, and when somebody says a probe "takes 17 seconds to build", it will actually be true.
2) Real APM will equal in-game APM, and there won't be any more confusion about these two.
3) You won't have to set the game speed of the campaign or some custom map that you try to "fastest" before you start playing. Halfway thru the campaign it turns out I was only playing at "fast".
-
Re: Remove Game Speeds in HoTS & LoTV
Why remove a feature that is already implemented?
I certainly think that lower game speeds are useful, for players who are new to the game and are trying to learn ( Practice league )
As for showing the real APM, I think it's entirely possible to change the statistic from " ingame APM " to " real APM " without changing the game speed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gradius
Who honestly plays on different speeds? And what's with those maps in the custom games list that don't play at fastest?
This kind of makes you sound like a douche. Just because you want to play at higher game speeds, doesn't mean that the feature should be removed. I'm sure that plenty of people enjoy the game at lower game speeds, and I think that the feature also has some specific uses in custom games.
And when I browsed the custom games tab last, there were some maps on the front page, that played at a lower game speed. I guess they must be popular somehow?
-
Re: Remove Game Speeds in HoTS & LoTV
Element TD is played at normal speed so it is equal to normal time.
-
Re: Remove Game Speeds in HoTS & LoTV
I support two game speeds. Slow, and Normal. Normal would be normal, 1 sec = 1 sec. Slow would be for newbies, and would move at half normal speed. There is no need whatsoever for 5 speed settings.
-
Re: Remove Game Speeds in HoTS & LoTV
yeah i actualyl support a slow-mode aswell. it can be helpful to new players. i've had some use of it in teaching. also, its quite nice for singleplayer.
-
Re: Remove Game Speeds in HoTS & LoTV
I agree with the rest. A slower game speed makes it feel less stressful and slower paced to new players. The faster speed creates a large amount of urgency.
-
Re: Remove Game Speeds in HoTS & LoTV
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Peanutbutter
Why remove a feature that is already implemented?
How about the 3 reasons I gave in the OP?
Quote:
I certainly think that lower game speeds are useful, for players who are new to the game and are trying to learn ( Practice league )
I don't think practicing at a different speed than ladder games are at is remotely useful. Unless you're trying to figure out how units work, in which case game speed is the last thing to be concerned about. Personally if I was new to the game and I wanted to train at a different speed than the ladder, it'd be faster not slower.
Quote:
This kind of makes you sound like a douche. Just because you want to play at higher game speeds, doesn't mean that the feature should be removed. I'm sure that plenty of people enjoy the game at lower game speeds, and I think that the feature also has some specific uses in custom games.
lol? Yeah I'm a douche for wanting to remove a feature that I think nobody uses and that causes problems. Even my bronze league friends ask me whether anybody plays the game at speeds besides faster.
The feature itself is not used in custom games except when people select it in the lobby for whatever reason. The feature should be removed from the game but added to the editor (if it's already not) so that:
1) newbies have some maps to practice on for whatever one-off reason
2) the game plays at the speed it's supposed to, but map makers might add the option to make the speed proportional to the difficulty players select.
Quote:
And when I browsed the custom games tab last, there were some maps on the front page, that played at a lower game speed. I guess they must be popular somehow?
Only when people accidentally clicked on them after they were added. Looks like they're gone now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DemolitionSquid
I support two game speeds. Slow, and Normal. Normal would be normal, 1 sec = 1 sec. Slow would be for newbies, and would move at half normal speed. There is no need whatsoever for 5 speed settings.
This I can support. Whatever makes the speed that's played on the ladder as the default speed for everything, and gets rid of these units of game time measurements.
-
Re: Remove Game Speeds in HoTS & LoTV
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gradius
How about the 3 reasons I gave in the OP?
It's already implemented... Why remove it, when it might have even the slightest possibility of usage???
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gradius
lol? Yeah I'm a douche for wanting to remove a feature that I think nobody uses and that causes problems. Even my bronze league friends ask me whether anybody plays the game at speeds besides faster.
Just because your bronze league friends aren't using this feature, doesn't mean that other people aren't... Yes, I think it makes you look like a douche, when you want to remove a feature, just cause you or your friends don't use it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gradius
I don't think practicing at a different speed than ladder games are at is remotely useful. Unless you're trying to figure out how units work, in which case game speed is the last thing to be concerned about. Personally if I was new to the game and I wanted to train at a different speed than the ladder, it'd be faster not slower.
This doesn't make much sense to me. Why the hell would anyone practice at a faster speed, than the one on the ladder???
From my point of view, when you're completely new to a game as complex as Starcraft 2, you want to take it slow in the beginning, and then gradually work your way up.
-
Re: Remove Game Speeds in HoTS & LoTV
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Peanutbutter
It's already implemented... Why remove it, when it might have even the slightest possibility of usage???
“Perfection is achieved not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away” – Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Quote:
Just because your bronze league friends aren't using this feature, doesn't mean that other people aren't...
Pretty much every map on the first 5 pages of the most popular list is on the faster game speed. You suggest keeping a feature that causes problems for people because.....it's there and somebody might use it? Just sounds absurd to me.
Quote:
Yes, I think it makes you look like a douche, when you want to remove a feature, just cause you or your friends don't use it.
Alright, in that case I think wanting to keep a feature that causes problems for people, at least in its current incarnation, makes you look like a moron.
Quote:
This doesn't make much sense to me. Why the hell would anyone practice at a faster speed, than the one on the ladder???
Have you ever trained for anything? You want to maximize intensity during training so that when it comes time to compete, it's easy. But for someone brand new, training at speeds slower or faster than those on the ladder are both worthless IMO.
-
Re: Remove Game Speeds in HoTS & LoTV
People who are defending Blizzard's pathetic excuse for game design makes me laugh.
The whole fast, faster, fastest has absolutely no grounds in game design what so ever. It's a relic of ancient RTS game principles where you could change the game speed because Real Time Strategy was a new concept to people, they were used to static turn based strategy. This is the most apparent in many RTS games of that decade, Command and Conquer had a slider (8 notches) of speed and it was most likely that Starcraft copied CNC.
The entire genre has been so saturated that nobody really needs to have changing game speeds and it is one of those absolutely pointless design ideas that has no grounding. It's on the same tier as the "start button".
What they should do is remove the game speeds, and have normal, and slower and slowest (possibly)
Instead of normal being the middle ground. It merely is an interface issue and nothing more.
-
Re: Remove Game Speeds in HoTS & LoTV
Slower speed option = good
Multiple speed options = useless
-
Re: Remove Game Speeds in HoTS & LoTV
Having multiple speeds isn't so bad, so long as the "normal" game speed is indeed called Normal. I don't want to have to add 40% to the APM counter when watching GSL casts and I want "overlord scout after 7 minutes" to mean overlord scout after 7 minutes. It's not a big deal but it's ugly.
Custom games shouldn't realistically need a lower game speed setting, since they can internally change all the move, build and attack speeds to make a slower gameplay.
-
Re: Remove Game Speeds in HoTS & LoTV
You know the speed settings can be changed in game, I can see potential use of it in a custom map. (like a global time slow! That would be pretty awesome)
The only thing I disagree with is that "faster" is standard instead of normal.
-
Re: Remove Game Speeds in HoTS & LoTV
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gradius
“Perfection is achieved not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away” – Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Not sure if srs?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gradius
Pretty much every map on the first 5 pages of the most popular list is on the faster game speed. You suggest keeping a feature that causes problems for people because.....it's there and somebody might use it? Just sounds absurd to me.
I think it's absurd to remove a feature, just because it causes some minor problems for a few people. I think that the number of people using the feature, is far greater than the number of people having problems with it.
Personally, it has never bothered me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gradius
Alright, in that case I think wanting to keep a feature that causes problems for people, at least in its current incarnation, makes you look like a moron.
Let's keep this discussion constructive. I'm sorry for calling you a douche, I couldn't find a word that fit better at the time.
Sure, it would be completely idiotic to keep this feature, if all it did was cause problems. But, as I said above " I think that the number of people using the feature, is far greater than the number of people having problems with it. "
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gradius
Have you ever trained for anything? You want to maximize intensity during training so that when it comes time to compete, it's easy. But for someone brand new, training at speeds slower or faster than those on the ladder are both worthless IMO.
I disagree here. Just because someone is playing 1v1 games, doesn't mean that the person is training for the ladder. I know of at least a few people that enjoy the game at a less " intense " level, by decreasing the game speed.
-
Re: Remove Game Speeds in HoTS & LoTV
Rarely have I seen someone arguing to give players fewer choices about how to play a game. It reminds me of the old MBS and auto-mine arguments of ye olde days.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gradius
The speed at which you can play the game: a relic from SC1 that had no reason to be in this game. Who honestly plays on different speeds? And what's with those maps in the custom games list that don't play at fastest?
Newbies who are learning the game and casual players who enjoy a more measured pace of playing, perhaps?
Quote:
1) There will be no more measuring things in "units of game time," which is absurd. The timer will tick at the real time, and when somebody says a probe "takes 17 seconds to build", it will actually be true.
Every other unit of measurement in the game is presented in abstract terms, so I'm not sure why you're so up in arms about game time being similarly valued.
Quote:
2) Real APM will equal in-game APM, and there won't be any more confusion about these two.
Casual gamers (i.e. the vast majority of people who bought SC2) couldn't give two shits about APM. The only people who really care are the very few professional paid players and the thousands of pretenders, and they already know the difference.
Quote:
3) You won't have to set the game speed of the campaign or some custom map that you try to "fastest" before you start playing. Halfway thru the campaign it turns out I was only playing at "fast".
Why wouldn't you check your game settings before starting a game? Especially when you first buy a game, going through audio/video/game settings to optimize the experience is one of the first things you ought to do. Next time be a bit more thorough?
To be blunt this is a pretty silly argument, on the level of arguing difficulty settings should be removed so that a game can only be played on "Hardcore." A game is successful in part because it can appeal to a large audience, and one way of ensuring this is allowing different people to play the game in different ways, or the same person to experience the game in different ways. Not everyone wants to play an RTS at blinding fast speeds all the time, so having "Slow, Normal, Fast" options allows for this.
And, most importantly, no one is forcing you to play at these slower speeds, so you are not being "harmed" in any way by their inclusion. You will "harm" other people who do enjoy playing at different speed settings if you remove this option, so the reason why they won't be removed is pretty straight-forward.
-
Re: Remove Game Speeds in HoTS & LoTV
@Lupino
This explains it perfectly.
How I wish I could express myself in english as well as you do.
-
Re: Remove Game Speeds in HoTS & LoTV
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Peanutbutter
I think it's absurd to remove a feature, just because it causes some minor problems for a few people.
Removing the "feature" was just a suggestion to improve the game, but all I really want is for 1 sec to = 1 sec and the normal speed on ladder to actually be the default speed. I said I'd be fine with modifying the feature to only have 2 or 3 speeds in my second post, so I'm not sure why everyone is still going on about me wanting to remove the feature.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Peanutbutter
Not sure if srs?
Yes totally srs. Removing the feature and sticking it into custom maps where it belongs is not taking away from anybody's experience and is still better than not changing it at all. Same reason why Blizzard didn't add more scenes onto the Prophecy cinematic even though they had them prepared.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Peanutbutter
I think that the number of people using the feature, is far greater than the number of people having problems with it.
There's really no evidence for that, but there is evidence that few people play on these slow maps. The "slow" versions of maps completely fell off the popular game rating after people stopped accidentally clicking on them when they were added (at least on NA). You also have to keep in mind peoples' experiences are different from yours. I mentioned I didn't know anybody who played at other speeds, and it would have been great if you could have chimed in with your experiences instead of attacking me for wanting to remove a feature.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lupino
Rarely have I seen someone arguing to give players fewer choices about how to play a game.
Newbies who are learning the game and casual players who enjoy a more measured pace of playing, perhaps?
I suggested adding the feature to the editor but removing it from a spot where it can cause problems (like when you have people create slow games because they forgot to change the setting from last game). It can be kept in the campaign since it's already there, but the default speed should be the fastest if they're going to make the option hard to find.
Quote:
Every other unit of measurement in the game is presented in abstract terms, so I'm not sure why you're so up in arms about game time being similarly valued.
You don't understand why it would be nice to use a standardized unit of time that everyone is familiar with instead of arbitrary units of game time? Really? It's almost like you decided beforehand that you were going to attempt to rebut each and every one of my points.
Quote:
Casual gamers (i.e. the vast majority of people who bought SC2) couldn't give two shits about APM. The only people who really care are the very few professional paid players and the thousands of pretenders, and they already know the difference.
1) You're saying the problems created for the professional players don't matter?
2) Who says casual gamers don't care about APM? For those who don't spam it's a decent measurement of multitasking ability.
Quote:
Why wouldn't you check your game settings before starting a game? Especially when you first buy a game, going through audio/video/game settings to optimize the experience is one of the first things you ought to do. Next time be a bit more thorough?
Mind your own business? I did set the settings before I played, but the game speed option only appears in-mission, hidden away in the gameplay tab, and I just wanted to play. I actually discovered this option from someone else who got screwed over by it.
-
Re: Remove Game Speeds in HoTS & LoTV
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gradius
Removing the "feature" was just a suggestion to improve the game, but all I really want is for 1 sec to = 1 sec and the normal speed on ladder to actually be the default speed. I said I'd be fine with modifying the feature to only have 2 or 3 speeds in my second post, so I'm not sure why everyone is still going on about me wanting to remove the
feature.
I'd be totally fine, if they changed it so that 1 ingame sex = 1 sec. I don't see the reason for having 2-3 speeds, instead of just leaving it be as it is right now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gradius
Yes totally srs. Removing the feature and sticking it into custom maps where it belongs is not taking away from anybody's experience and is still better than not changing it at all. Same reason why Blizzard didn't add more scenes onto the Prophecy cinematic even though they had them prepared.
I don't think that you're in a position to decide whether removing the feature will take anything away from someones playing experience or not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gradius
There's really no evidence for that, but there is evidence that few people play on these slow maps. The "slow" versions of maps completely fell off the popular game rating after people stopped accidentally clicking on them when they were added (at least on NA). You also have to keep in mind peoples' experiences are different from yours. I mentioned I didn't know anybody who played at other speeds, and it would have been great if you could have chimed in with your experiences instead of attacking me for wanting to remove a feature.
Just because the slow versions of the map fell off the popular games tab, doesn't mean that people don't play at slower speeds. AFAIK, games in the practice league are played at " normal " speed.
I don't have access to SC2 right now, but IIRC you can check how many games were played on any custom map within the last hour. I'd be curious to know how many games were played, on maps with different game speeds.
Oh, and I did chime in with my experiences.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Peanutbutter
I know of at least a few people that enjoy the game at a less " intense " level, by decreasing the game speed.
-
Re: Remove Game Speeds in HoTS & LoTV
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gradius
Removing the "feature" was just a suggestion to improve the game, but all I really want is for 1 sec to = 1 sec and the normal speed on ladder to actually be the default speed. I said I'd be fine with modifying the feature to only have 2 or 3 speeds in my second post, so I'm not sure why everyone is still going on about me wanting to remove the feature.
Because you say you want to remove the feature, and the title of the thread is "Remove Game Speeds in HotS & LotV", ergo the confusion...I suppose.
Quote:
I suggested adding the feature to the editor but removing it from a spot where it can cause problems (like when you have people create slow games because they forgot to change the setting from last game). It can be kept in the campaign since it's already there, but the default speed should be the fastest if they're going to make the option hard to find.
I would hardly call it hard to find, and I see no reason why fastest should be default. So what if people forget to change the setting from last game, this problem is so minor that it doesn't really warrant the much larger headache of removing the option altogether.
Quote:
You don't understand why it would be nice to use a standardized unit of time that everyone is familiar with instead of arbitrary units of game time? Really? It's almost like you decided beforehand that you were going to attempt to rebut each and every one of my points.
Since you put your argument by point, I figured answering them by point would be appropriate, but there already is a standardized unit of time. The difference is that this standard changes by speed setting. Which only really matters if you are changing between speed settings frequently. Otherwise if you're talking to someone about build orders or whatnot, talking in terms of "in-game time" is sufficient to get your point across and be applicable for people playing regardless of what speed settings they use.
Quote:
1) You're saying the problems created for the professional players don't matter?
2) Who says casual gamers don't care about APM? For those who don't spam it's a decent measurement of multitasking ability.
Yes, because professional paid players are such a small share of SC2 buyers as to be insignificant in terms of numbers. They also invest the most time into this game, and so are better able to respond to changes in the game, etc. Casual players, by their very definition, care a lot less about APM than paid or "pro" players, so it would be very low on the totem pole of things to be changed to make the game better.
Quote:
Mind your own business? I did set the settings before I played, but the game speed option only appears in-mission, hidden away in the gameplay tab, and I just wanted to play. I actually discovered this option from someone else who got screwed over by it.
You make it sound as if your experience in playing the game irreparably harmed by accidentally playing at a slower pace. I once started playing Halo 3 on normal difficulty for the first few levels by accident, but besides wondering why the enemies were dying so easily I just went into the menu and changed it to a higher setting. I didn't jump on Bungie's message board and say we should remove difficulty levels or make Heroic the default setting.
-
Re: Remove Game Speeds in HoTS & LoTV
Again, APM, spell durations, the in-game clock and build times are all out of whack because of this stupid system. What about a 20 minute game that is only 14 minutes? It's just dumb. If people don't think that this is important enough to change I can't really convince anybody. The game speeds don't have to be removed, I only suggested it because it seemed like the simplest solution for Blizzard to implement and one that de-cluttered the game by removing a feature I thought nobody used. How is having five different speeds good game design? Especially when the normal setting happens to be the one nobody uses.
On an unrelated note, this is by far the most inconsequential topic I've ever argued about. :P
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Peanutbutter
Oh, and I did chime in with my experiences.
Alright, when I said "Who honestly plays on different speeds?" do you think it was meant to be rhetorical or something? I thought it was clear I didn't know anybody who used this feature, yet you were mainly more interested in calling me a douche than in helping find a better solution or bringing new info to the table.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Peanutbutter
Just because the slow versions of the map fell off the popular games tab, doesn't mean that people don't play at slower speeds. AFAIK, games in the practice league are played at " normal " speed.
I don't have access to SC2 right now, but IIRC you can check how many games were played on any custom map within the last hour. I'd be curious to know how many games were played, on maps with different game speeds.
Yes I've already looked at that and mentioned it repeatedly throughout this thread:
"The "slow" versions of maps completely fell off the popular game rating after people stopped accidentally clicking on them when they were added"
Christ it seems like you don't read anything I write.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lupino
Casual players, by their very definition, care a lot less about APM than paid or "pro" players, so it would be very low on the totem pole of things to be changed to make the game better.
Yes it would be low on the priority if you ignore all my other arguments. Can we stop it with this Bill O' Reilly crap of splicing my sentences and ignoring everything else? Facebook integration and new league icons were a low priority compared to things like chat channels but Blizzard added it anyway because it was easy to implement, so your argument isn't convincing either way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lupino
You make it sound as if your experience in playing the game irreparably harmed by accidentally playing at a slower pace. I once started playing Halo 3 on normal difficulty for the first few levels by accident, but besides wondering why the enemies were dying so easily I just went into the menu and changed it to a higher setting. I didn't jump on Bungie's message board and say we should remove difficulty levels or make Heroic the default setting.
I always love non-starcraft strawman examples. Speeds are not really analogous to difficulty levels. That's what difficulty settings for missions are for, and SC2 requires much less mechanical skill than BW. It wasn't noticeable no, but bumping up the speed from fast to faster decreases the length of the campaign by 2-3 hours, if the campaign is say 15 hrs. I could have beat the campaign 2-3 hours faster, and this is important to me because it's time I could have saved.
-
Re: "Fix" Game Speeds in HoTS & LoTV
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gradius
3) You won't have to set the game speed of the campaign or some custom map that you try to "fastest" before you start playing. Halfway thru the campaign it turns out I was only playing at "fast".
I disagree. If someone wants to play a campaign at a different speed, let them.
Speed only "matters" when playing on the ladder, and I believe that (outside of the Practice League, at least) everyone plays at the same speed.
Names could be changed, though. There's no point of having almost everyone playing at faster than "normal" speed. It's no longer normal. :)
-
Re: "Fix" Game Speeds in HoTS & LoTV
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kimera757
I disagree. If someone wants to play a campaign at a different speed, let them.
Speed only "matters" when playing on the ladder, and I believe that (outside of the Practice League, at least) everyone plays at the same speed.
Names could be changed, though. There's no point of having almost everyone playing at faster than "normal" speed. It's no longer normal. :)
Again, I don't care if the option is in the campaign. I'll update the OP & title to not cause any more confusion.
My only problem in the campaign is that the option is hidden away in the gameplay tab where it only appears when you're in a mission. What if I wanted to play at the fastest speed for achievement purposes? Raising the speed up a notch can shave 3 hrs off total play time. Same thing if I wanted to play slower.
What exactly is good about the current system? Even an "override game speed to x when possible" option would be solid.
-
Re: "Fix" Game Speeds in HoTS & LoTV
I hate playing on anything below fastest.
EDIT: Do achievements verify game speed for time, or is it real time? Because then someone could get an achievement much more easily if they're on fastest...
-
Re: "Fix" Game Speeds in HoTS & LoTV
i genuinely like having the option of playing a melee game on a speed slower than fastest. it effectively simulates playing the game faster and being more able to multitask. there are so many tactical intricacies that get lost to lower level players because executing them is too taxing on multitasking or micromanagement and causing too big holes in macro.
... you might say, we can see that amazing happen at the hands of the pro's, but really, why remove the option of playing a slow-mo game? its not hurting anyone.
of course, i agree that standard ladder game speed should be labelled Normal, not fastest, and its seconds should actually match with reality.. to avoid too much vconfsion, MP might make do with just one slower speed setting.
-
Re: Remove Game Speeds in HoTS & LoTV
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gradius
Alright, when I said "Who honestly plays on different speeds?" do you think it was meant to be rhetorical or something? I thought it was clear I didn't know anybody who used this feature, yet you were mainly more interested in calling me a douche than in helping find a better solution or bringing new info to the table.
I see. I must have misunderstood it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gradius
Yes I've already looked at that and mentioned it repeatedly throughout this thread:
"The "slow" versions of maps completely fell off the popular game rating after people stopped accidentally clicking on them when they were added"
Christ it seems like you don't read anything I write.
I do read what you write. I just don't believe, that the slow versions of various maps fell of the popular games tab, just cause people stopped accidentally clicking on them.
I've never accidentally clicked a map that I didn't want to play on. And for a map to show up within the first few pages of the popular games tab, thousands of people must play on them ( Please correct me if I'm wrong ). I doubt that that many people accidentally clicked on a map they didn't want to play....
Anyway, I feel like further discussion of this topic is pointless, since it's more about personal preferences. I've already expressed my opinions, and you have expressed yours.
Peace.
-
Re: "Fix" Game Speeds in HoTS & LoTV
*Grows tired of watching and jumps in.*
On the issue of the multiplayer game speed, I think we still should have options. Could we have less? Sure, why not? I'm wondering if we could adjust them according to the AI difficulty settings: Casual, Normal, Fast (Hard) and Insane. Just an idea.
If not, then that's ok. If things were to stay similar to how they are now, I agree that it would be an improvement to make the present "Faster" game speed the "Normal" speed. You can't make Fastest the new Normal unless you were to provide an even greater speed than that. But Faster/Fastest do happen to be far more popular overall in terms of game speed on multiplayer, so it should be reasonable that one of those ought to be the normal/default setting. I wouldn't take away a slower speed for players that prefer to play or learn that way.
-
Re: "Fix" Game Speeds in HoTS & LoTV
All this feature does for me is make me have to change it every time I want to load a map and have some fun. Damn this feature straight to Hell. If it's going to be there, it should be so transparent that I don't even know about it.
Quote:
I doubt that that many people accidentally clicked on a map they didn't want to play....
Haha! If only that were the only problem.
I've probably contributed 500 hits to slower versions of maps simply because it defaulted to that. When I 'Create Game' it defaults to 'Fast'. Being in a hurry to get in-game and just relax, I forget to change it. I'm sure thousands and thousands of people do this as well, hence, why you'll find the less popular maps have 'Fast' as their most popular version.
-
Re: Remove Game Speeds in HoTS & LoTV
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gradius
Again, APM, spell durations, the in-game clock and build times are all out of whack because of this stupid system. What about a 20 minute game that is only 14 minutes? It's just dumb. If people don't think that this is important enough to change I can't really convince anybody. The game speeds don't have to be removed, I only suggested it because it seemed like the simplest solution for Blizzard to implement and one that de-cluttered the game by removing a feature I thought nobody used. How is having five different speeds good game design? Especially when the normal setting happens to be the one nobody uses.
Then it's not really a 20 minute game, is it? All those things you mention are only "out of whack" if you are switching frequently between time settings or unable to translate the units involved into real measurements of time. If you only play on one setting, then you don't have to worry that much about in-game speed's relation to reality for obvious reasons.
Quote:
Alright, when I said "Who honestly plays on different speeds?" do you think it was meant to be rhetorical or something? I thought it was clear I didn't know anybody who used this feature, yet you were mainly more interested in calling me a douche than in helping find a better solution or bringing new info to the table.
Yet clearly people are responding saying that they do play on different speeds, or at least know people who do, so making generalizations like nobody plays on normal setting is false.
Quote:
Yes it would be low on the priority if you ignore all my other arguments. Can we stop it with this Bill O' Reilly crap of splicing my sentences and ignoring everything else
Sir, I will kindly ask you to not insult me by comparing me to that "person":p:D Anyways, I haven't been ignoring any of your arguments, indeed if anything you've been snipping more of my argument in your response than I have yours, but that's irrelevant now.
Quote:
I always love non-starcraft strawman examples. Speeds are not really analogous to difficulty levels.
Yes, they are. If the game is moving faster you have less time to react, if you have less time to react then completing tasks is more difficult than if you had more time. Besides which, the point you seemed to have missed is that, like pointed out in the example, this is a minor problem at best, hardly worthy of getting on the forums to complain about much less petitioning the game-makers to change it.
-
Re: "Fix" Game Speeds in HoTS & LoTV
Blizzard will never do it, and if they somehow magically do it for the sake of fan service, it's because the company isn't really Blizzard anymore. It's a company that was Blizzard and then had turned into a slow-to-adapt MMO cash cow. I still think Blizzard is still Blizzard, it's just bloated and now has forgiving deadlines.
The very most BASIC game design principles of Blizzard Entertainment contain a few gems that basically say "Don't restrict the player" and "Give the player freedom." Go ask Rob Pardo and some of the old timers if they regret adding a number of worthless features, maps and modes in their legacy games. If any of them bother to reply or even remember the topics you bring to discussion, they will gladly say "Nope!"
Starcraft 2 can feel like a relic in its own right, simply because it's does try its best not to fix what wasn't broken with the first game. Game speeds aren't broken. They won't fix it. Why? Well pros don't care if they are there and some single player minded casual players do use it. That's about that.
-
Re: Remove Game Speeds in HoTS & LoTV
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lupino
Then it's not really a 20 minute game, is it? All those things you mention are only "out of whack" if you are switching frequently between time settings or unable to translate the units involved into real measurements of time. If you only play on one setting, then you don't have to worry that much about in-game speed's relation to reality for obvious reasons.
Nobody is switching speeds. I'm referring to the fact that faster is faster than real-time (normal). Yes obviously it can be converted, but nobody does that since it's too much effort to multiply anything by 1.395. Maybe when casters say "he pushed out at 5 minutes" it could actually mean that. Maybe the in-game timer on the bottom left, or the replay timer on the bottom right, could be useful for training or discussion outside of the replay? Or maybe build times or spell durations on tooltips could be labeled with non-arbitrary times? But god forbid we should do anything to improve the game. :rolleyes:
Quote:
Yet clearly people are responding saying that they do play on different speeds, or at least know people who do, so making generalizations like nobody plays on normal setting is false.
And I was supposed to know that before I started the thread how? It's a generalization if I make a statement, not if I ask "who honestly plays on different speeds?" Just stop plz.
Quote:
Yes, they are. If the game is moving faster you have less time to react, if you have less time to react then completing tasks is more difficult than if you had more time.
Obviously, but that's where the similarities start & end. The point you seem to have missed is that the difficulty setting in your strawman example would correspond to the mission difficulty in SC2, not the game speed. That's the setting people pick for difficulty, and I'm not suggesting that brutal be made the default option for the campaign. So again, I'd really appreciate if we could cut down on the non-starcraft strawman scenarios.
Quote:
Besides which, the point you seemed to have missed is that, like pointed out in the example, this is a minor problem at best, hardly worthy of getting on the forums to complain about much less petitioning the game-makers to change it.
I have to wonder if you've ever watched a replay or a starcraft cast. Again, if you feel this is all a minor issue and you like having nonsensical statistics, that's your prerogative. But you have yet to provide any evidence that casual players who like melee don't care about APM or the arbitrary times for everything, or that these game speeds don't cause problems for people like tychus described. You've got a long way to go before establishing that any of the problems I or others have listed are "minor".
Your method of argumentation in this thread basically boils down to denying that any problems people have are worth addressing, a champion argument.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Asfastasican
Game speeds aren't broken. They won't fix it. Why? Well pros don't care if they are there
The pros do actually care about the messed up timer, though they can deal with it. But I agree Blizzard probably won't touch this feature anyway.
-
Re: "Fix" Game Speeds in HoTS & LoTV
Quote:
Blizzard will never do it, and if they somehow magically do it for the sake of fan service, it's because the company isn't really Blizzard anymore. It's a company that was Blizzard and then had turned into a slow-to-adapt MMO cash cow. I still think Blizzard is still Blizzard, it's just bloated and now has forgiving deadlines.
Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat???
-
Re: "Fix" Game Speeds in HoTS & LoTV
When I came to the depths of Bronze League and let my wife play, I wished that league had normal game speed.
I had to make a map for her and add GTAI just for her to have fun.
I wish they made bronze league play at normal speed.
-
Re: "Fix" Game Speeds in HoTS & LoTV
what is GTAI?
ive began teaching my GF to play and though shes starting to get a grasp of it, she's still far from the multitasking and unit-control know-how & execution that i think would be required to enjoy a straightforward game on fastest. sitting back and building an army and simply a-moving all across the map is simply more effective.
-
Re: "Fix" Game Speeds in HoTS & LoTV
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Todie
what is GTAI?
ive began teaching my GF to play and though shes starting to get a grasp of it, she's still far from the multitasking and unit-control know-how & execution that i think would be required to enjoy a straightforward game on fastest. sitting back and building an army and simply a-moving all across the map is simply more effective.
The Green Tea AI, is a custom AI bot, with far more capabilities than the normal SC2 AI. It's far better to practice against, since it behaves much more like an opponent you might face on the ladder strategy/build wise ( It even talks to you from time to time )
In the newest version, you can create your own strategy, and the AI will mimic it, making it suitable for practice against certain builds etc.
To play against it, just for " GTAI " when making a custom map. Currently, the newest version is 0.92.
Here's the official thread on Teamliquid.net, where you can find more detailed info :
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=235523
