That really isn't a horrible idea. I could see it working with a maximum range and/or number of stacks.Quote:
Originally Posted by RODTHEGOD
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That really isn't a horrible idea. I could see it working with a maximum range and/or number of stacks.Quote:
Originally Posted by RODTHEGOD
I love Corsair look but it's Aoe attack was meant to due with unit stack which Blizz would rather prevent it other than have a unit against it (viking flower nerf) So I think you fond of it's Web right? I think Phoenix have that potential, as spell caster more than a anti-air (when enemy have no air)Quote:
I just hate the Phoenix. It has no reason to exist because the Corsair already existed. The "can't hit buildings" thing bothers me because it actually goes against Blizzard's design goals.........they didn't want the Corruptor to be useless once all the enemy air was dead.
Blizzard leave them due to their potential of Harass. The problem is they can't do much in that tech level and rest of the game. As Voidray upgrade is out, they should give upgrade to Phorenix to fit in disabler role.
Either as an upgrade or build-in buff, they can do:
1) Instead of channel, phoenix is slowed and pacified so can retreat after disable
2) If channel is required, increase Phoenix armor while channel like Faerie Dragon in WC3 so it could stay of the field longer with low HP
3)Reduce the cost of gravity lift, better as upgrade instead, so more frequent lift without making phoenix rush to horrible.
For Zealot, I agree that it's plain after the mid game, as they are auto attack unit, unlike marine have stim, or the maneuver capability of zergling.
The point is they are already quite good for cost, so maybe a skill like stim, call it fanatic for now, that sacrifice sth for sth like dmg/speed for resilience or vice verse (too like stim though)? Zealot are mainly used soak damage/fast warp defense anyway in the later game.
Mothership is useless. However so do Nexus after a mineral field is dead. They are just hot keyed for chrono-boost at that point. So how about combine them? Allow a mothership to be summon much faster with lower mineral cost and faster build time (compensated the cost of nexus and chrono) but destroy the nexus to defense your own tech in main base. It don't really need to be as fast as warp-in, but fast enough as reaction when you scout a large army pressing when you out of army. Still cost AND provide supply like normal nexus+mothership (or not since it is unique anyway)Quote:
Mothership is useless
But Mothership still need to get a bit faster if not with cloak field size/HP nerf.
I tried a mothership rush of 2 bases, I didn't do anything wrong. He wasn't prepared for it (PvZ) he had no anti air and he could not really see invis. (except he had some static defense) Still I lost way to big then I should of a successful mothership rush.
Later I tried the almost same strategy but instead of a mothership I hid carriers instead until I had 2 and the third one almost finishing. Now that was a much better "rush" for the same techpath it took quite a while because of their heavy buildtime but with a fast expansion, good building placements some sentries and then focus on getting the map control and stall him by poking a little to prevent creepspread.
In my opinion these units need to be revamped:
Toss:
Carrier - remodel, change the way this unit plays
Phoenix - remodel, make it less annoying and more useful against other units
Mothership - make it actually part of the game
Colossus - make this unit less generic, give it some draw back
Terran:
Raven - Remake some of its spells
Thor - delete this unit, or remake it into something better
Hellion - add a spell for the hellion
Zerg:
Overseer - remake this into something more interesting
Hydralisk - give it speed upgrade
Ultralisk - reduce the size and increase attack speed / decrease damage, give it siesmic slam spell or something
Corruptor - please give this unit a redo, it's the most boring unit in the game
The drawback for the Colossus is that anti-air can easily take it out, especially air-based anti-air. Unless you have anti-air to fight their air-based anti-air, or something to stop their ground-based anti-air, you're going to lose those Colossi pretty quickly.
I agree the Carrier and Phoenix could use some work, and it'd be nice if the Mothership was more viable.
I like the Raven, but I think it'd be neat if it only had one drone/turret that could do either/or, and perhaps one other ability. Maybe some form of vehicle repair? Not a constant cast like the Medivac, but something like a small AoE heal. Nanite Burst?
I dunno about the Thor, he's got ups and downs. His anti-air is pretty good when you get multiples of him, but his ground damage role feels a lot like a mobile siege tank, which I dislike.
I don't like the idea of a spell for the Hellion. What could you do for it, anyway? Temporarily increased damage? It would end up feeling like stim, only for a vehicle.
I agree with you on the Overseer. Pretty useless at the moment.
I thought Hydralisks already had a speed upgrade?
Ultralisks already have a passive ability that makes them pretty powerful. I don't like the idea of giving all the beefy Tier 3 units castable spells. It would add way too much micro.
Corruptors are... decent anti-air, but other than that? I think they're only in the game to give Brood Lords and to help counter armored air.
Pls tell me you're joking lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Alar
Yes, in SC BW they do. lolQuote:
I thought Hydralisks already had a speed upgrade?
I could have sworn that upgrade carried over into StarCraft 2... no, I'll admit right now Zerg is my weakest race out of all of them. I was probably just remembering Hydralisks on creep. My bad. :(Quote:
Originally Posted by RamiZ
Hydras get a RANGE upgrade, not speed. Easy mistake to make when your education system is still teaching Imperial measuring.
*cough*
give the phoenix like a "corsair beam upgrade" where after upgraded (from fleet beacon) they have AOE damage like the corsair did.. This way, you'll actually be able to stop mass muta from zerg in an effective way. Still will get owned by infestors easy though.
Protoss needs some kind of air AOE though. Thats also why carriers are so crappy; they are too slow to take out viking/corruptor armies, so its not cost effective at all unless its a surprise attack after building up 6+ carriers secretly.
another AOE to deal with mass ling/infestor is needed too imo, or something.
I wonder if giving Carriers and AoE upgrade would make them too powerful... but, in my opinion, they don't really see all that much use. It might actually get Protoss players to use them more. I know that Zealots typically work rather well against Zerglings... the idea of Zealots with a sweeping AoE passive, again, might be a bit too powerful. Maybe an upgrade to Photon Cannons?
On the topic of Phoenix still not being good enough against Mutalisks due to the absurd amount of micro required, I'd suggest increasing its attack range from 4 to 5 (Mutalisk range is 3). Still require micro, but a bit more leeway to get hit less often.
Cost per cost, you don't need to micro your Phoenixes to beat Mutalisks at all. 10 Phoenixes can kill like 15 Mutalisks with just a-click. Now, if you want to kill 15 Mutalisks with 3 Phoenixes, well yeah, you need absurd amount of micro...Quote:
Originally Posted by DemolitionSquid
Phoenix isn't just AtA attacker, he is also great harasser, giving him 5 range on top of shooting while moving, together with fast production time and 4,25 movement speed, it would really break the balance.
I don't often see protoss players getting 10 phoenixes, although it is common to see 15 mutalisk.
That doesn't make them any less useful. I see often that Protoss use 6-7+ Phoenixes as harassers, killing Overlords, Queens and Drones, and go for pure Zealot/Archon combo. Not as often as Mutalisks, but still, they can do it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Twilice
Yes but they won't get it to counter mutalisks. You said it yourself they use it for harrasment.
But if I see that many Phoenixes, I won't use Mutalisks at all, because I would invest so much into them and it would be a suicide.Quote:
Originally Posted by Twilice
That is simply just ridiculous. Phoenix are poorly designed in general. They're way too good against like but really lack in anything.Quote:
Originally Posted by DemolitionSquid
What really just needs to happen is
a) Make phoenix shoot animation more of a missile projectile effect rather than such a passive line effect, with a launch effect so you can micro better
b) Make phoenix shooting take ~0 time, but remove moving attack
c) Make phoenix accelerate slower but same top speed, you need to keep and give it more shields
d) Make the graviton beam more support role and not a centeralized role.
Missile attack, no moving attack, increased HP, decreased acceleration...Quote:
Originally Posted by Wankey
So you basically want the Scout back?
Look, I hate the Phoenix, I think it should never have existed because we already had the Corsair. But there's no need for extreme fixes when its actually a fairly balanced unit right now.
Corsair couldn't harass at all, it couldn't lift up units and kill them, it could only cast Disruption Web, and that spell had pretty limited use in competitive scene. You hate Phoenix, I get that, but Phoenix is doing a good job at killing Air Light units, maybe not as good as Corsair, but it is pretty damn good, and besides that, it has a lot more uses and shines at other things too.Quote:
Originally Posted by DemolitionSquid
If you think about it, and compare units from BW and SC2, they nerfed every AoE in every way possible, and not just spells, but units with AoE attack too. Corsair would just be overpowered in current state vs. Light units. I know, he should counter them, but you wouldn't need more than 4-5 of Corsairs to kill 15+ Mutas. The light air units wouldn't be possible to play with against Protoss, the same way that you wouldn't be able to do Drops at all against Zerg or do any Air harass if he still had Scourges...
This likely wouldn't happen, but how do you all think the Phoenix would play out if they gave him AtG attack?
Little late to the party but w/e (long read too BTW. Yeesh)
Warp Prism: God this unit sucks. Feels like it was just put in because Toss needed a transport unit.
I say give it another "mode": Warp-in mode and some kind of buff mode (shield boost mode mayhaps?). It'll give you a reason to actually bring one along in battle.
Photon Cannon: I agree, it seems so lacking compaired to the other defencive buildings. I got nothing, but that chained strengthening attack idea sounded pretty cool. it'de be hard to balance out a cannon rush though.
Pheonix: So much APM for such little return. I came up with an idea for it recently in another thread that would introduce an upgrade giving its graviton beam a small AOE (like 4 marines or 2 marauders worth in size) meaning that they might find use in those late game death ball fests.
4-Gate Not a unit but man do I hate it. My fix would be to introduce a new upgrade into the Cybernetics Core that would compete with warp tech ( Kind of like how Stim and Shields compete with each other). I don't know what this upgrade would be, but it would have to be able to go head to head with the 4-gate. Any thoughts?
I could get warp-in, or I could get <blank>...
...lol, tough call.
Sentries: Actually I like the unit. I just don't like being so dependant on it. Forcefield either needs a nerf, or early Toss units need a buff.
Actually maybe the proposed cyber core upgrade could some how change that? Making the decision in the early game that much more important.
Also maybe a "come here" type spell would be nice. Offensively you could throw down a FF wall and pull units through. And defensively you could bring Immortals in closer so they could actually do some DPS as opposed to them twitching around behind your stalkers :p. Sentries are up front with your Zealots anyways so it works out nicely. You could also pull units out of battle too, like a makeshift blink for other Toss units.
Mothership: Junk.
I like littlesiren's idea of the Nexus "transforming" into a version of a mothership. That's pretty kick ass!
Carrier: Scrap it
Marauder: Remove its ability to stim. Problem solved
Thor:This^ + the concept is retardedQuote:
Originally Posted by RODTHEGOD
Banshee: Rotors in space? Scrap it and bring in an epic space fighter if anything at all.
Mule: Wait, so a player can MarineKing me and bounce back? How is this thing still in the game?
You ever look at the resource gathering chart at the end of a match? Ya! Balance it or scrap it.
Roach: I always pictured Zerg coming at you from different sides with different broods tearing everyone apart......Instead we get the Roach being massed up and A-clicked to your main. New Zerg unit please.
Fungal Growth: I agree that HOTS needs some dispel type abilities. Fungal should not be removed, but something needs to change it from its game ending status it currently has.
*Maybe a new unit that had that "come here" ability mentioned earlier could also have a dispel type ability as well?*
Overseer: Junk. Or give it Zerg's version of a dispel.
It would be pretty imbalanced, a lot stronger than Muta in every aspect... HP, damage, speed, attack speed etc. and its cost is only a bit higher.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alar
@Carsickness
I just don't know what to say, I mean, we all have some changes for the game, but you basically want half of the game to be changed.
Make the photon-chain an upgrade at say the twilight council.
This is your only point I disagree with. I really feel both the Warp-Prism and Nydus Network are simply underused due to their perceived complexity and not because they aren't well designed. Both are incredibly strong when used by professionals. They are quite literally game-changing units because of how fast they can bring forces to the front lines.Quote:
Originally Posted by Carsickness
Another point I'd like to address is the "get over here!" spell suggested. I think an ability on the High Templar or Sentry to swap the positions of two units nigh-instantly (either friendly or enemy) could have amazing uses. Swap a Zealot for a Baneling and BOOM, or plop a few Archons right in the middle of a pack of Hydralisks. If it proved too powerful for picking off units like Colossi, you could just make Massive units immune to it.
I agree completely with this. I'm no professional, nor do I play protoss frequently, but when I do I understand the usefulness of the warp prism. Keeping a couple with your army to warp in reinforcements right on to the frontline? Yes please.Quote:
Originally Posted by DemolitionSquid
I'm just Theorycrafting the shit out of this thread. Plus there are many other people with 10+ changes.Quote:
Originally Posted by RamiZ
Ya probably swapping Colossi would be a little OP :P. Why would you want to swap a baneling though? Wouldn't bringing a baneling in close be a bad thing?Quote:
Originally Posted by DemolitionSquid
Distance and cooldown would have the be heavily balanced but I think it'de work quite nicely. Imagine a pro getting their hands on this and watching Blinks + switches going on during an intense battle. No one would know what's going on anymore lol.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DemolitionSquid
Warp prism is useless in the front lines. Any decent player seeing a warp in progress would snipe the warp prism instantly. Having a pylon near by is alot more usefull and cost effective.Quote:
Originally Posted by Muspelli
It's slow, made of paper, and its effectivness is only as good as how many warp gates you have.
I agree that its potential hasn't been reached yet. but that potential is quite limited in its current state.
Terran's transport unit can heal, be double pumped, and is used so much that its sheer numbers can often transport their entire army. I'de like to see the Warp Prism be as usefull.
I just want a reason to build more then 1. that's why I think a shield battery style ability would be very usefull.
I usually play for fun. I'm sure that has some effect on it. Either way, I can see how well they can be used, even if it doesn't translate that well into pro gaming.
As for the protoss needing a raider, reavers? Blizzard says they're a siege unit, but I don't think they were ever really used that way. They were certainly used as raiders.
Run 1 Zealot into a group of Banelings = enemy micros and they run away.Quote:
Originally Posted by Carsickness
Instantly place 1 Zealot into as group of Banelings before the enemy can react = BOOM. Wasted Banelings.
Pylons have more HP, and don't take supply. But you have to get a Probe over there with your first wave, and wait for the Pylon to morph in without it being attacked. Warp Prisms can fly with first wave (or even carry it) and set up for warp-in instantly. Both methods have their value. Ultimately it is their mobility that gives them power. Also, instantly powering up deactivated buildings and cannons while a Pylon warps in lets you keep your production constant.Quote:
Originally Posted by Carsickness
Reavers were nigh useless without a Shuttle. You rarely saw a Reaver without a Shuttle because the Shuttle completely changed how Reavers operated. The two units were symbiotic. Blizzard decided to combine the two units into one - the Colossus. The range and burst power of the Reaver, with the (near) mobility of the Shuttle. Unfortunately, its the "near" part that destroyed the Colossus drop. You need a Warp-Prism to achieve the same mobility as the Shuttle because the Colossus can't cross air gaps. And the Colossus' burst damage is lower than the Reaver's was because its a single unit, and you don't have to pay for each shot (unlike with Scarabs). If the Colossus was cheaper, they'd be just as drop-able as Reavers were. This is why its more common to see Immortal drops instead.Quote:
Originally Posted by Muspelli