Opinions and effectiveness of Medivac?

For people who have played the game: how effective/good/bad are Medivacs?

I've only seen a couple of shakey vids, but they didnt look all that great to me.

Few questions:
Does the healing (paladin) beam upgrade as you upgrade weapon tech?
Can you upgrade the healing (paladin) beam at all?
What do you think of the current healing mechanic? (Granted its different to medics, but rather than goin back to medics, if its not as good, how can it be improved?)
How do Terran need to change their playing style to properly utilise Medivacs?

Could Medivac be given any (probably only 1) offensive/misc spells to increase their usefulness?

Medivac is amazing.

Its a dropship, a already heavy used unit and a deadly one at that.

PLUS a super medic.

And you can make 2 at once.


I feel that its in the place it needs to be, also not sure bout the upgrade questions...but I don't think it changes at all

I had an army of: 9 rines 7 rauders 7 ghosts and 4 medivacs were enough for support.
I was unhappy about the medic for some time, but when I actually build some Medivacs my thoughts were clear.

Does the heal stack? Can you tell say, 3 Medevacs to focus heal 1 Marine being focus fired upon and get faster heal?

Well the current problem is medivacs don't heal themselves, so if you target them or hit them with any sort of splash damage, the rest will crumble.

This could be a big lategame concern considering medivacs aren't early tech.

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Originally Posted by Caliban113

Does the heal stack? Can you tell say, 3 Medevacs to focus heal 1 Marine being focus fired upon and get faster heal?

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That would be awesome if it stacked. Specially if the Medivac AI was told to autoheal/switch to the most damaged unit in range. :)

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Originally Posted by Triceron

Well the current problem is medivacs don't heal themselves, so if you target them or hit them with any sort of splash damage, the rest will crumble.

This could be a big lategame concern considering medivacs aren't early tech.

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The thing's a transport, bring an SCV per Medivac :)

I don't care if someone's transporting a Thor, bring another!


-Psi

didn't play with them much, they seemed a bit expensive for healers, and I rarely needed dropships, though I certainly see their uses for infantry drops. I guess my main problem with them then is that you kind of have to reach a "critical mass" number with them to have the same usefulness of medics. It was very hard to go from using medics in the singleplayer demo to medivacs in multiplayer, medics just seem so much more useful to me, you could throw in a few medics without too much trouble, the same really can't be said for medivacs... And yeah.. them not healing each other is certainly another issue worth mentioning.

It's the convenience of healing vs scv repair. The good thing is they're air units able to dance around the infantry, but no in combat repair while infantry stays topped off means more baby sitting.

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Originally Posted by Triceron

It's the convenience of healing vs scv repair. The good thing is they're air units able to dance around the infantry, but no in combat repair while infantry stays topped off means more baby sitting.

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Would giving an air unit auto-repair for energy be too overpowered a solution?

Er, I'm not asking for one.

I'm just saying it's a downside to the unit, whereas the medic was much more effective by being the unit type that they healed. Medivac obviously has higher HP and the mobility advantage, I'm not asking for it to have auto repair. I'm simply stating that it has a disadvantage in battle from not having repair. The SCV thing isn't always an option and a waste of time/space if the Medivac doesn't take damage over the course of its use.

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Originally Posted by Triceron

Er, I'm not asking for one.

I'm just saying it's a downside to the unit, whereas the medic was much more effective by being the unit type that they healed. Medivac obviously has higher HP and the mobility advantage, I'm not asking for it to have auto repair. I'm simply stating that it has a disadvantage in battle from not having repair. The SCV thing isn't always an option and a waste of time/space if the Medivac doesn't take damage over the course of its use.

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I didn't mean to imply you were. It was more along the lines of my comtemplating it and posting it.

That said, I agree with the SCV taking extra space, though I'll still wait until I've played the game before I make any conclusions.

I guess you could drop a MULE to provide emergency repair. Its a fairly agricultural solution, but its better than none. I dont know how well it would work in combat situations.

The people that played the game said that MedIvacs were too expensive for their role. And that they cant heal themself is even bigger minus, I have never liked the concept of this unit, thought that doesnt mean it isnt useful.

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Originally Posted by Iceman_jkh

I guess you could drop a MULE to provide emergency repair. Its a fairly agricultural solution, but its better than none. I dont know how well it would work in combat situations.

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I don't think mules can repair

I have loved this unit since it was conceived. A few number tweaks and its golden.

And I will confirm that MULES cannot repair or build.

oh. ghey. ohwell.
so they are purely for minerals now? do they have any advantage mining gas too?
(btw, great movie)

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Originally Posted by Iceman_jkh

oh. ghey. ohwell.
so they are purely for minerals now? do they have any advantage mining gas too?
(btw, great movie)

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Just minerals.

And yes, yes it is ;)

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Well the current problem is medivacs don't heal themselves, so if you target them or hit them with any sort of splash damage, the rest will crumble.

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What's the range on their heal beam? I figure if it's something like 4, it'd be hard to aim at the Medivacs while engaging with ranged ground units (outside of Thors with their long range or Stalkers with Blink, of course).

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The people that played the game said that MedIvacs were too expensive for their role.

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So, sounds like a minor tweak, and they'll be fine.

Like Squid, I've loved the unit since I first heard about it.

The cost definitely needs a revision (from what I hear, gas-heavy units didn't get much playtime over-all, especially against Protoss opponents...), but the "can't heal itself" disadvantage is completely intentional, and removing it goes against the entire point of the change.

The Medic is easier to use, and that's a bad thing. It's too easy to use, and absolutely impossible for the enemy to counter. The Medivac is an upgrade in many respects, but that comes with a price -- no more ez uncounterable healing.

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The cost definitely needs a revision (from what I hear, gas-heavy units didn't get much playtime over-all, especially against Protoss opponents...),

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It's not just that. One of the advantages of the Medivac is that it's a base StarPort unit, so 1 Reactor later lets you double-pump it. Keeping it light on gas makes it possible to get quite a few of them out without having to go double-Port.

Plus, it's the only Terran transport. For pure minerals, the Zerg can pop their army up anywhere (Overlord + Nydus). For pure minerals, the Protoss can create units anywhere (I don't know the cost of Warp Prisms, but Pylons are still mineral-only). For the only Terran transport to require lots of gas is just silly.

Warp-in upgrade costs 50/50 mins/gas, warp prism 200 mins

The Medivac is a cool unit if a little odd with the healing beam and what not (I don't get what the beam is supposed to be).

The thing is it's a great unit to compliment ground forces whereas the medic was also great but it was just something mandatory that you threw it. The opponent wouldn't bother deciding against targetting medics or marines, there was no point.

Now, there' sa bit more diversity to it.

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Originally Posted by Nicol Bolas

It's not just that. One of the advantages of the Medivac is that it's a base StarPort unit, so 1 Reactor later lets you double-pump it. Keeping it light on gas makes it possible to get quite a few of them out without having to go double-Port.

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Further to this quote and a comment made about needing a critical mass of medivacs, what actually is the point/benefit of having them double pumpable or needing a critical mass? Also, how many is critical? I agree that double-pump is a nice thing, but for each Medivac you have, you get 4-8 infantry slots.

If medivac critical mass was 5 (for arguments sake), thats between 20 and 40 infantry units that you have on the field (not counting mech payload, which you probably cant afford/produce when trying to acheive a such a big payload of infantry). It seems like having that many infantry units would just about win most battles regardless, which means that when you go MASSIVE infantry drop (& go for a crit mass of medivacs) you get a powerhouse platoon, but otherwise (non crit mass medivac), its only a 'good' platoon. Kinda seems like it forces/pushes/encourages you all the way down the 'infantry path' if you chose to perform any kind of drop.

Just because you build medivacs doesn't mean you have to have each one filled to the brim with infantry. They could just be there for the sole purpose of healing.

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Originally Posted by Pandonetho

The Medivac is a cool unit if a little odd with the healing beam and what not (I don't get what the beam is supposed to be).

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Most of the Marine's 40 HP constitutes armor. Think of the Medivac as an engineer-on-the-go. He "heals" the Marine by repairing his suit with nano-something-or-other.

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The Medivac is a cool unit if a little odd with the healing beam and what not (I don't get what the beam is supposed to be).

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Eh. Same thing the medic had just in beam-form, rather than... uh... whatever the heck the Medic did.

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Eh. Same thing the medic had just in beam-form, rather than... uh... whatever the heck the Medic did.

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The Medic had actual on-site medical tools for healing, you know, the marine himself. Not the armour.

The medivac is a holy unit, as magic as those stone zealots that come to life without any seeming technology. That's the only explanation I see for it.

I guess floating nanites or whatever you wanna call it could make sense, but from a realistic standpoint (yes go flame me for liking some semblence of realism) it doesn't make sense for such an easy target to just hover above infantry targets and heal them with beams of nanites while enemies could easily fly a scourge into it, or shoot a rocket at it, or what have you.

I guess if we really get down to it, that could just be a game mechanic and realistically it lands and performs on site surgery to infantry units (where medics are in the medivacs with better equipment thus the doubled rate of healing).

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Originally Posted by Pandonetho

The medivac is a holy unit, as magic as those stone zealots that come to life without any seeming technology. That's the only explanation I see for it.

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Well, how do you imagine a Medic actually works? She waits for a guy to get sliced in half by a Zealot psi-blade and then glues him together with medicine?

Repairing the suit makes far more sense than repairing the Marine inside it. Blizz has made it very clear in novels and other materials that the weapons used, even the Marine's basic Gauss rifle, rip human bodies apart as easily as with two slugs. An actual field surgeon would have very little work to do, because not only would she have to get through the damaged armor to the guy inside, how many of those Marines are actually going to be salvageable after the sort of things that go on in SC2?

As for it being a prime target for Scourge -- really, would a Medic be any different? There's no reason the Scourge can't just plummet to the ground and slam into a squad of infantry.

Yes, those are for non-armoured soldiers that get torn apart.

For marines, firebats, whatever, a slug/spine/arm-scythe could easily penetrate the armour and injure/wound the marine, even severely, without killing him.

And then according to the wiki.

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Medic tools have been expanded to chemical modifiers increasing marine survival rates and the use of nano-conveyed anesthetic and attenuated lasers to carry out on-site surgery.

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They will heal the marine.

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As for it being a prime target for Scourge -- really, would a Medic be any different? There's no reason the Scourge can't just plummet to the ground and slam into a squad of infantry.

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Yes, a medic would be different. Tell me what's the difference between a tall profile tank and a low profile tank?

A big ass hovering craft with giant red crosses on it is going to be a much easier target for EVERYONE than a medic, who's much cheaper and expendable.

The lore explains the medic as using nano technology to heal. The beam of light could be an energy source that's transporting the nanos. It's all sci fi anyways, it pretty much all borders on the line of 'a techno-wizard did it'.

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Originally Posted by Triceron

'a techno-wizard did it'.

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I blame Jesus, myself.

Water into wine? Thank you, cold fusion.

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Originally Posted by Pandonetho

For marines, firebats, whatever, a slug/spine/arm-scythe could easily penetrate the armour and injure/wound the marine, even severely, without killing him.


And then according to the wiki.


They will heal the marine.

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That wiki quote sounds to me like pure magic. "We invented a serum that'll heal somebody up to full life when they just got sliced in half by a Zealot's psi-blade." Or, lest we forget, what the other injuries possible are -- SIEGE TANK barrage ("Let me magically reattach your leg and make it A-OK!"), LURKER spines ("Let me just completely straighten out your spine after it got torn in half from below"), ULTRALISK arms...

I don't really buy it -- I prefer to think of Medics as engineers, and until it becomes important either way or is shown in a cinematic, the truth doesn't really matter. But if you buy their explanation, there's no reason the Medivac can't do the same thing from afar. Magic serums are magic serums.

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Yes, a medic would be different. Tell me what's the difference between a tall profile tank and a low profile tank?

A big ass hovering craft with giant red crosses on it is going to be a much easier target for EVERYONE than a medic, who's much cheaper and expendable.

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Tell me what's the difference between a person trying to outrun something that flies at supersonic speeds, and an aircraft trying to outfly something that flies at supersonic speeds. ;)

If a Medic is spotted on the field (from the air, from afar, by an Overlord, for instance) she has nowhere to run. A Medivac on the other hand...

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That wiki quote sounds to me like pure magic. "We invented a serum that'll heal somebody up to full life when they just got sliced in half by a Zealot's psi-blade." Or, lest we forget, what the other injuries possible are -- SIEGE TANK barrage ("Let me magically reattach your leg and make it A-OK!"), LURKER spines ("Let me just completely straighten out your spine after it got torn in half from below"), ULTRALISK arms...

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Obviously there are situations where death is instant. A marine is as likely to be in a situation where he is impaled by spines, impaled by slugs, impaled by scythe arms, or just plain suffering from the explosive properties of a glaive wurm, the fact of the matter is those can be healed, and thus should be.

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I don't really buy it -- I prefer to think of Medics as engineers, and until it becomes important either way or is shown in a cinematic, the truth doesn't really matter. But if you buy their explanation, there's no reason the Medivac can't do the same thing from afar. Magic serums are magic serums.

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Yes, well the facts point to medics being what they're actually named. And the main problem with the Medivac is not the holy beam, it's the way it heals people, a giant floating target.

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Tell me what's the difference between a person trying to outrun something that flies at supersonic speeds, and an aircraft trying to outfly something that flies at supersonic speeds.

If a Medic is spotted on the field (from the air, from afar, by an Overlord, for instance) she has nowhere to run. A Medivac on the other hand...

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Don't be ignorant dude. It's a clear fact that tall profile machinery is bad. The Medivac isn't a tall profile machinery but it clearly acts like one, floating in the sky shooting bright glowing beams of light.
Nobody specifically targets medics just because.

First of all.
A) How much is a medivac compared to a medic in cost? The Medivac
B) Who's bigger? The Medivac
C) Who's in more vulnerable space? The Medivac

Why a scourge would want to target a medic instead of a wraith is beyond me. Why a scourge would want to target a stationary floating dropship potentially filled with injured soldiers while continually supporting ground troops instead of a wraith makes perfect sense to me.

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Originally Posted by Pandonetho

It's a clear fact that tall profile machinery is bad.

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Except when building the machinery tall increases its effectiveness by 3, 4, or 10 times. By using the Medics' technology on a Medivac instead, they can get to ANY wounded soldier on a massive battlefield in an INSTANT... meaning, a lot more Marines saved than lost.

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A) How much is a medivac compared to a medic in cost? The Medivac
B) Who's bigger? The Medivac
C) Who's in more vulnerable space? The Medivac

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Imagine a Medic navigating a battlefield strewn with what looks like charred car parts. Can she efficiently pick out the ones that still have life signs? Even if she has a computer to detect them, one would think that a Medivac, with its size, could afford a much more powerful and effective one, significantly cutting down on the time it takes to find and heal dying soldiers.

A Medic might actually heal soldiers, but even if she does that, she does so through technology -- having a powerful engine and a lot of room to spare, it's only reasonable that the Medivac might triple or quadruple the Medic's ability to heal.

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Why a scourge would want to target a medic instead of a wraith is beyond me. Why a scourge would want to target a stationary floating dropship potentially filled with injured soldiers while continually supporting ground troops instead of a wraith makes perfect sense to me.

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Let's go at it from a different angle. Medics would get shredded to bits by Zerglings, by far the most common sight on a battlefield, and blown to pieces by Banelings. Neither of these can touch the Medivac. And even if Scourge still exist, simply outside of the multiplayer gameplay, at worst there is now an explosive unit both for air and for ground, so a Medic and Medivac would both be in equal trouble. Actually, when the threat comes from above, at least the Marines it's healing might be able to shoot that threat down as it approaches. But a Baneling underground? It's going to kill the Medic and the Marines, and no one's going to see it coming.

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Originally Posted by Muspelli

Would giving an air unit auto-repair for energy be too overpowered a solution?

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SCVs can already auto-repair for resources.

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Except when building the machinery tall increases its effectiveness by 3, 4, or 10 times. By using the Medics' technology on a Medivac instead, they can get to ANY wounded soldier on a massive battlefield in an INSTANT... meaning, a lot more Marines saved than lost.

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No, not really. No modern day military would design tall profile anything.

The Thor is a bad unit, so is the colossus, except the Protoss have the benefit of Protoss magic and crap that Humans aren't supposed to understand.

The Medivac is a great unit if realistically it lands to load up injured/wounded troops to heal them, much as real life medivac units do. If it just hovers above the battleground shooting healbeams at infantry targets, then it's retarded and by far more easily taken down than a medic. This, is, undisputable. This cannot be disputed. While you're in the middle of healing, what's to stop a single anti-air missile from blasting into the craft destroying it? While it's in the middle of healing, what's to stop a scourge from hurtling down and destroying something, which as I've already mentioned, is 100x a bigger loss than a single medic?

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Let's go at it from a different angle. Medics would get shredded to bits by Zerglings, by far the most common sight on a battlefield, and blown to pieces by Banelings. Neither of these can touch the Medivac. And even if Scourge still exist, simply outside of the multiplayer gameplay, at worst there is now an explosive unit both for air and for ground, so a Medic and Medivac would both be in equal trouble. Actually, when the threat comes from above, at least the Marines it's healing might be able to shoot that threat down as it approaches. But a Baneling underground? It's going to kill the Medic and the Marines, and no one's going to see it coming.

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This is utter baloney. If a medic is going to be shred apart by ANY of those things, chances are the marines are already dead. Medivacs are VASTLY more easily targeted, this cannot be disputed. This is a fact. A giant HOVERING mind you, it's not even moving, it's HOVERING above infantry units healing them, will get destroyed by guerilla forces shooting rockets at it for god's sake.

Medics are one with marines, if medics are dying, chances are your marine force has already been slaughtered.

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Imagine a Medic navigating a battlefield strewn with what looks like charred car parts. Can she efficiently pick out the ones that still have life signs? Even if she has a computer to detect them, one would think that a Medivac, with its size, could afford a much more powerful and effective one, significantly cutting down on the time it takes to find and heal dying soldiers.

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I don't know why a medic would be wandering down a battlefield strewn with bodies, Terran units should operate like squads. And they do, thus medics are assigned to squads, and will move with their squad.

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A Medic might actually heal soldiers, but even if she does that, she does so through technology -- having a powerful engine and a lot of room to spare, it's only reasonable that the Medivac might triple or quadruple the Medic's ability to heal.

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This is obvious, and it makes sense too, that is if the Medivac lands to heal infantry.

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what actually is the point/benefit of having them double pumpable or needing a critical mass? Also, how many is critical? I agree that double-pump is a nice thing, but for each Medivac you have, you get 4-8 infantry slots.

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So that you can build them faster. Marines are double-pumped from a Barracks. By the time you safely tech to StarPorts, you've probably got at least 2 Barracks (if you're going for infantry), one of them dedicated to Marines with a Reactor. By then, you've got a good 30 or so infantry in need of healing. You need to get those Medivacs out and quickly.

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Warp-in upgrade costs 50/50 mins/gas, warp prism 200 mins

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WTF? That is imbalanced as hell. The Protoss get, not only a transport unit, but for a mere 50 gas, the ability to build units anywhere? Meanwhile the Terrans have to pay 100 gas for a single transport?

No, that's getting fixed in the beta, if it stays that way until beta. Man, the BlizzCon build was way Protoss imbalanced.

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This, is, undisputable. This cannot be disputed. While you're in the middle of healing, what's to stop a single anti-air missile from blasting into the craft destroying it?

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I don't understand how it is you're trying to rationalize StarCraft.

Transports in StarCraft can survive multiple direct hits by anti-air turrets, balls of glowing plasma, and whatever the hell Spore Colonies shoot. A man-portable missile isn't even going to scratch the paint.

The simple fact that air units can only be attacked by certain units shows that, in StarCraft, hitting and damaging flying things is not trivial.

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The Medic had actual on-site medical tools for healing, you know, the marine himself. Not the armour.

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Medics used glowing beams of light just like Med-evacs. Except they were used at melee range rather than from afar.

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Originally Posted by Nicol Bolas

So that you can build them faster. Marines are double-pumped from a Barracks. By the time you safely tech to StarPorts, you've probably got at least 2 Barracks (if you're going for infantry), one of them dedicated to Marines with a Reactor. By then, you've got a good 30 or so infantry in need of healing. You need to get those Medivacs out and quickly.

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Yes, I realise that. And I dont have a problem with being able to catch up to your requirement to move a large group of infantry. What I was asking though was, why do you need the critical mass of 4 or 5. Thats quite a lot of dropships. Id like the dropship to be fairly useful in smaller numbers 1-3, rather than NEEDing to be brought to the field in 4-6s. Also, after you've used doublepump to catch up to your infantry requirements, is the doublepump all that useful?

So my point is: Are they really that useful when theres 1-3.. or do you need the 4-6? And if 4-6, I dont think that the unit is that much of a success. It feels more like a "dropship with healing facility bolted on", rather than a "medical evacuation/drop" capability. Therefore, the healing aspect is not terribly effective until you have a lot, at which point, you have overcapitalized on the transport capability. Perhaps all it needs is a buff to the healing aspect to make it seem less 'token' IMHO.