What lore evidence is there that a Thor is about the same size as a Colossus?
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What lore evidence is there that a Thor is about the same size as a Colossus?
I don't think anyone said a thor is about the same size as a colossus... I was comparing a thor to tanks, and zealot to colossus... I may have said that I believe a thor and a colossus is comparable in terms of size, from the artwork the colossus looks even taller than what the thor seems to be.Quote:
Originally Posted by TychusFindlay
But, what lore evidence is there?
Artwork which doesn't compare them side by side means nothing.
I favor two possibilities. First, perhaps the Dropship (or possibly the Battlecruiser?) should require an upgrade to either introduce additional cargo space, or tethers/locks to ferry the thing on the outside of the ship. Given that the Thor is a fairly high-priority target, opponents would be able to see these Thor-carrying Dropships and target them.
Alternatively, the Thor could go into a "compact mode" (the closest thing I can think of is packing up a trebuchet for transit in a game like Age of Empires), in which case it could then be loaded aboard a Dropship.
If i'm not comparing them, why do I need evidence? :?Quote:
Originally Posted by TychusFindlay
Someone said that I have no evidence that the Overlord is considerably smaller than the Ultralisk, so in the interests of better understanding Zerg biology here are a few pictures. :)
Here are two snapshots of the Ultralisk that give some sense of scale (taken from the StarCraft Ghost opening cinematic):
http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/4198/ultralisk2.jpg
http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/8711/ultralisk.jpg
Here's a screenshot from StarCraft Ghost with an Overlord and a Marine in it (pretty much same distance from each other as the foremost Marine and the Ultralisk in the previous screenshots):
http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/689...ft03310330.jpg
And for those who would argue that even a third person shooter gameplay screenshot would still distort scale here's a "real-life" snapshot of an Overlord and a Mutalisk alongside each other from the Zerg cinematic the Warp (screenshot brightened and captioned for further clarity, the Mualisk and Overlord are equidistant from the camera):
http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/367...1009084707.jpg
And now think of the fact that in the first StarCraft the Overlord carries two(!) Ultralisks inside itself. The Thor being transported by a Dropship still seems incongruous?
Hmm, I don't think you can accurately judge distance in either of those shots since the units are flying in space. I certainly don't think you can assert that the Muta and the Overlord are equidistant.
Do you have realism issues with Overlords carrying Hydralisks? Because a Hydralisk is bigger than a marine and an Overlord can carry 4 of them. Given the scale of the Ultralisks in the first image, I think 2 Hydras are about equivalent to 1 Ultra.
I personally wouldn't take SC: Ghost, a scrapped game, or 11 year old cinematic videos seriously.
Just like on the Amerigo, no way would that Zerg have survived so many shots from the marine, but instead the bullets from his guns just bounced off its forehead carapace.
Similarly, an RPG somehow managed to outdo a gauss rifle in killing Zerglings (BW intro).
But I digress, I've just come to the conclusion that when a Thor is transported in-universe, it's just disassembled and reassembled when dropships are the method of transportation. Merely for the sake of gameplay it doesn't show anything like this.
Alternatively, in-universe they would most likely use other larger carriers to hold Thors.
So I give up on this discussion.
If you watch the cinematic you'll see a shot or two more where the Overlord and Mutalisk are clearly the same size. And as a Hydralisk is only slightly bigger than a marine I think that the Ultralisk is definitely bigger than two Hydras.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpiderBrigade
It's a video done by the Blizzard cinematic team using concept art done by Blizzard artists for a game the events of which are still considered canon. This is the best source we have as to Ultralisk size (unlike most Thor representations which were done by non-Blizz guys for spin offs).Quote:
Originally Posted by Pandonetho
Actually, that's the only way I can see the Zerg being effective against any sort of Terran firepower on the battlefield.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pandonetho
Because in real life a bullet is definitely more destructive than a rocket. Your examples of past "incongruities" in Blizzard cinematics are not particularly valid.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pandonetho
Doesn't mean its accurate. They had limited technology, and things they did in the cinematic videos didn't even make sense.Quote:
It's a video done by the Blizzard cinematic team using concept art done by Blizzard artists for a game the events of which are still considered canon. This is the best source we have as to Ultralisk size (unlike most Thor representations which were done by non-Blizz guys for spin offs).
Hell, I don't even know why they were fighting the Zerg in trenches in the BW intro, trenches would be completely useless against the Zerg.
Uh, I'm sure you watched the SC:Ghost video, it's much more accurate than any cinematic from the game. Zerglings die to a couple of shots, and I'm pretty sure my eyes weren't lying when I saw that Terran force getting raped.Quote:
Actually, that's the only way I can see the Zerg being effective against any sort of Terran firepower on the battlefield.
Um, what?Quote:
Because in real life a bullet is definitely more destructive than a rocket. Your examples of past "incongruities" in Blizzard cinematics are not particularly valid.
In the Ghost cinematic they die quickly to pretty intense focus fire, all of your instances of a Zerg not dying quickly enough were of a lone marine shooting a single Zerg who's even too damn terrified to hit the Zerg in the weak spots.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pandonetho
And how exactly the technology limitations they had would force them not to portray things to the scale they wanted to? Even if they were doing the cinematics with hundred polygon models and crummy textures there's still no reason for them to make the Ultralisk any smaller than they wanted it to be.
P.S. Perhaps they were fighting the Zerg in the trenches because that's what the colony defenses were, and they weren't originally meant to be used against the Zerg? Seems to me to be a pretty reasonable explanation.
I'd vote more for redundant/distributed organs, after all, a lion can survive a heart-shot long enough to kill, so I see no reason an alien creature could get perforated by flechette rounds and hardly be slowed, the same for shrapnel. In fact, in a creature optimised for war, I can believe that just about anything but colander level perforation, or a direct impact with high-explosives would be lethal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eligor
Um, no they didn't. They died to a couple of shots. Did you see Captain Bok 1 shotting Zerglings with his handgun/magnum?Quote:
In the Ghost cinematic they die quickly to pretty intense focus fire, all of your instances of a Zerg not dying quickly enough were of a lone marine shooting a single Zerg who's even too damn terrified to hit the Zerg in the weak spots.
My point is, I'm pretty sure Blizzard themselves probably consider what they did 11 years ago to be trivial. A lot of things they did in those cinematics aren't even accurate to what scale the SC universe is in now.Quote:
And how exactly the technology limitations they had would force them not to portray things to the scale they wanted to? Even if they were doing the cinematics with hundred polygon models and crummy textures there's still no reason for them to make the Ultralisk any smaller than they wanted it to be.
I think we may have gotten a little off-topic here... Can we get back to whether or not we should allow transport of the thor and how, and leave it at that discussion?
But that discussion is very simple.Quote:
Can we get back to whether or not we should allow transport of the thor and how, and leave it at that discussion?
The Thor is a Terran ground unit. Clearly it should be able to be transported just like any other Terran ground unit. Ultralisks are bigger than Thors (in-game) and they can be transported both in Overlords (much smaller than an Ultralisk) and through Nydus Worms (which have mouth openings far too small for Ultralisks).
The only "problem" is that it visually looks odd. Though really, if you're wondering how Thors can fit, you also have to wonder how two STs, which are clearly larger than a Dropship, can fit.
Maybe we could limit the Dropship to infantry units, and create a sort of Carryall to move vehicles around.
But that means introducing an entirely new unit for something as simple as “eye candy”... god I hate that phrase.Quote:
Maybe we could limit the Dropship to infantry units, and create a sort of Carryall to move vehicles around
Though I woudln't mind a Carryall/Superdropship for SP.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zabimaru
That I'm totaly fine with.Quote:
Though I woudln't mind a Carryall/Superdropship for SP.
I'm just asking if there is such evidence. I'm not trying to prompt you to find me some. I was just asking for it in case you had it. That being said, my last two posts were aimed at the person who said the Thor and the Colossus are about the same size.Quote:
Originally Posted by Santrega
So we were talking about Dropship upgrades in another thread, and I remembered mechs with Jumpjets. The Thor could have jumpjets that let it do slow controlled jumps over cliffs/thin rivers, while having it be vulnerable in the meantime.
Too limited, a Thor needs to actually, not just hop.
Well currently it can't do squat.
I know, which is what everyone's complaining about, the thing is currently useless on island maps, or maps that involve having to cross a lot of distance (broken ground, switchbacks, etc.).
I agree with you, on this. Flight would make it useful, but I think flight takes it too far, so having jumpjets would allow it to slowly traverse obstacles in leaps. It could go from an island to another island as long as there is vision on it, and its within a range of, say, 13.
What about just making it jump like the Assault Marines in Dawn of War?
There's a cooldown, and a massive radius with which the Thor can "jump." or somehow travel.
So you select "jump" or whatever it is the method is for traversing the terrain, and click anywhere within a massive radius and it goes there. Then there's minute cooldown before it can use it again. And you can use it twice in a row or whatever.
Yeah, that's similar to what I was thinking, only a bit slower than the Assault Marines. There needs to be a catch to using the jump. Make it vulnerable for a short while ( 2-3 seconds ), just enough to make this ability a mobility one, not an offensive one.
The only difference between jumping and flying is the time it lasts, and since these things are supposed to work for who-know-how-long I see no problems. Cliff-jumping increases mobility, but not viability, the Thor still needs to get between islands on an island map, even if it is only at the speed of a building.
I'm not 100% serious here but what if Thors were equipped with multistage rockets, allowing them to 'leap' out of the screen and reemerging at their target location a la the Terra-Tron? Of course, it would require an upgrade called 'Hulk Boosters' and can only be used once after which it requires an SCV to repair it to 'replace the boosters'. For added insanity, the Thor would be inflicted 100 damage upon landing (with crater effect too).
That's something I'd love for a hero unit in SP, but I don't think there's room for such over-the-top action in MP.Quote:
Originally Posted by mr. peasant
[joke]Burn Heretic Burn[/joke] Seriously, this isn't a good idea, the only other unit to do this is the nuke, and that's a special case, more a delayed ability than a unit.Quote:
Originally Posted by mr. peasant
A leaping Thor, eh? Makes me think of those issues in which Walt Simonson turned Marvel's Thor into a frog... :D
The idea with stage rockets is cool though, over the top but cool. In fact it's probably the best suggestion for alternative Thor transportation as of now, something that'd be fun to use in a game.
I think this is a good idea, although I'm more favored toward the idea that the Thor should transform into a building mode and fly as a means of transportation. I haven't seen any Thor action in recent videos, so I'm assuming it still walks at a snail's pace. This could be used as a means to get around that and move Thors around faster.Quote:
Originally Posted by Santrega
Here's another idea:
What about giving the Thor a hover mode? It would require research and be passive. The Thor would be able to move directly over water, lava, space, etc., granting full mobility across the entire map, but would continue to remain a ground target. Of course, it still wouldn't be able to climb up and down regular cliffs.