oh sorry got mixed with something else
well still u need 100 rines to kill less than 5 bcs. No mather if they get combat shields they will still get killed 1 hit by bcs(didnt took that ability into acount while doing the calculation part)
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oh sorry got mixed with something else
well still u need 100 rines to kill less than 5 bcs. No mather if they get combat shields they will still get killed 1 hit by bcs(didnt took that ability into acount while doing the calculation part)
So we are sure that it's 5 damage and 8 shots, and not 8 damage with 5 shots?Quote:
Originally Posted by DemolitionSquid
Because that has a direct effect on how much damage is done, as instead of 16 damage, its 25 damage.
I wouldn't post it unless I was sure. Gosh.Quote:
Originally Posted by Santrega
http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/b...onDynamite.jpg
I just dont understand why two things written nearly the same time (Within a month) could be so incredibly different.Quote:
Originally Posted by DemolitionSquid
As there are only 4 attacks at the paris event, and there is 8 attacks on that korean thread that no longer exists..
I use SC2Armory as my source. They're "slightly" out of date on some things, but they have the most coherent stat database I've seen.
bah nvm.. i figured out thats only on the ground attackQuote:
Originally Posted by DemolitionSquid
Monday I will ask for updated stats in english on sc2gdf.
I don't trust google translations of korean.
IMO, the Thor is stupid and shouldn't exist, at least as a transformer unit. But, if it will be in the game, it sure as heck should not be transportable by dropship.
DemolitionSquid is right, a unit with a 5x8 + splash attack is not designed to take down heavy armor units, it's clearly made to take down masses of light air units. Remember the Corsair with it's fast repeating 5 dmg + splash attack? Wasn't good at all against BCs, right?
I'm not convinced at all of the Thor's role as anti-air unit, but beta will tell.
On the ground, however, it's a different story, as a 30x2 dmg is effective against any kind of unit, but we don't know how fast is the cooldown, maybe it has a high dmg attack just to force enemy units to shoot it by default.
Someone mentioned an idea of Thors being able to convert into something that can fly slowly, like the buildings. That's a good idea which satisfies lore, but i won't die if they decide to allow a Dropship to tranport one Thor.
You forget that the Thor's attack can be upgraded too. And each +1 upgrade is the equivalent of +8. And ground vehicle upgrades happen sooner in the Tech tree than air armor upgrades.Quote:
DemolitionSquid is right, a unit with a 5x8 + splash attack is not designed to take down heavy armor units, it's clearly made to take down masses of light air units.
By the time BCs come out, the Thor will likely have its +1 upgrade, so it's doing 24 damage a shot. Not terribly great, but non-trivial, especially if the BCs are stacked. Let's also not forget that Thors get armor themselves, and the BC attack is similarly weakened against units with armor. A +1 armor upgrade to the Thor means that the BC goes from 64 to 56 damage. They can survive a bit longer against that assault.
But yes, the best way to deal with BCs for the Terran is either Marines or Vikings. Marines are especially good for similar reasons: A single Marine with Combat Shields and +2 armor (perfectly reasonable by the time BCs come out in reasonable numbers) can take the full brunt of a BCs attack and live. Sure, they do less damage per-shot, but BCs can't kill them quickly at all. And Marines are much, much cheaper; you can go for Marines and have money left over for Banshees/Reapers doing worker raiding or whatever.
Now if you allow things to get to the point where you're seeing +2/+2 BCs or worse, then yes, Vikings are your only real option outside of other BCs.
I like the idea of Thor occupying all slots of the Dropship, but they could sneak in an upgrade to the Dropship that would allow it to carry a Thor in the first place. Something like "Heavy Cargo Hauling". My 2 cents.
I don’t feel the situation justifies an upgrade to be honest.Quote:
I like the idea of Thor occupying all slots of the Dropship, but they could sneak in an upgrade to the Dropship that would allow it to carry a Thor in the first place. Something like "Heavy Cargo Hauling". My 2 cents.
It should be able to be transported.Quote:
Originally Posted by Santrega
I think the balance should be in the maps themselves. No reason to fundamentally change something that's only important on island maps. Just make the maps themselves take this into consideration.
Hell no.
Maps must not make the transport of the Thor possible (through doodads)
That's not at all what I'm talking about. I'm talking about making the terrain laid out so a Thor can rest beside your mineral line or around the edges of the island to attack incoming drops and air units.
A Thor is supposed to be a very powerful anti-air unit. I don't see why you would need to drop one in an enemy base when an air unit would be just as good against air units as the Thor and Tanks would be just as good against ground units.
o well
in that case it would be quite relative and depends on the map, because when a map is created balance doen´t only depends on drops of the terrans. or a single unit
Make the Thor be able to wade even thro' the deepest water*, but then add a penalty of it getting rusty and moving and attacking (with the added inconvenience of fish getting stuck inside the cannons) much more slowly once it emerges on the other bank (complete with added "creaky noise and water sputtering out of all joints and openings" audio-visual effects). :D
*The Thor's position could be marked with a periscope, WarCraft 2 Gnomish Submarine style. :D
I know. I'm just saying that the fundamentals of the game shouldn't be changed for one unit; just like you're saying map balance shouldn't be based around one unit.Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Blade
Also, I like Eligor's idea. Granted, I'm not sure about penalties but maybe they should have it be able to move through certain depths of water like it was on ground but at slower speed.
This is ridiculous. Do you people even know what the K.I.S.S. principle is?
Thor transported by MedEvac is the ONLY logical solution. Its simple. Its fixable though model size changes. Its PERFECT.
... not really ...
My suggestion wasn't really serious (although technically such a mechanic would be curious, even if only for the reason that I don't know of any strategy game that seriously experimented with incapacitating terrain). I do like the idea of water hampering a unit's speed (not just the Thor's, but any unit venturing into the water), may make for interesting strategies that involve luring your opponent's units into the water.Quote:
Originally Posted by TychusFindlay
P.S. As for the Thor, I'm firmly in support of it being transportable by Dropships (on a one Thor per Dropship principle).
So giving the Thor jumpjets is better? Or a periscope as it swims? Or requiring two MedEvacs to string it between them as they decrease their speed by 30%?Quote:
Originally Posted by TychusFindlay
http://www.pimpofthe.net/wp-content/.../facepalm1.jpg
What about giving the thor some boosters which would help a dropship carry it. When the dropship moves down to pick it up, the thor will grab on to the side of the dropship, and no other units can be inside for the thor to be picked up. The thor will use its own boosters to help reduce the weight burden on the dropship, and to help keep it at its normal speed. Or simply give it the boosters which reduce the weight burden, and slow the speed of the dropship while the thor is latched on.
Then we would get naval units. units that we will never see on a starcraft game because most maps wont support them, although it might be a nice add on to camping.
Not to mention that maps would require shores for the thor to get in and out of this sort of terrain. Not just the river crossing bridge thats currently on the builds. (units move through them like normal)
I agree with DS the medivac is the most realistic way it can be transported, and this can be complemented with a visual effect.
Oh boy, do people take my post about an aquatic Thor seriously... It was a very tongue-in-cheek suggestion (I guess I should have thought of something even more ridiculous).
Try to keep the trollery to a minimum, Squid. This is a shiny new forum.
But, seriously, I never said any idea was better than the other. I only said your idea wasn't the perfect solution you make it out to be. And, I never said Eligor's idea was implementable.
I think that the question that should be asked is what is the problem with the Thor being transportable by Dropships?
Nothing. I think it fits very well as long as the effects are taken into consideration.
Than you're wrong. Accept it and move along.Quote:
Originally Posted by TychusFindlay
You mean that such an enormous unit will have some effect on this dropship carrying it? The thor is at least as big as a drop ship, and in my opinion way bigger. In this case, how could it possibly carry a thor?Quote:
Originally Posted by TychusFindlay
It has to make some sort of sense, as everything involved with sc has been explained through lore. There is absolutely no way to explain this without some sort of transformation or added help to transport it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Santrega
I wouldn't be too sure about that. I doubt the Thor is drastically bigger than a Siege Tank, and if a Dropship can carry two Tanks then I don't see why is it improbable that it should be able to carry one Thor. Besides, the size ratios in the game are not true to life (had they been, then with the current size of the Marine a Battlecruiser would have obscured the whole screen).
In the lore, there should be absolutely no reason that the Thor could be transported via standard Medivac. But, for the sake of game play, it should be forgiven.
And, by "as long as the effects are taken into consideration", I meant game play changes. As long as the Thor is balanced for dropping then I have no problem with it.
There is artwork and book covers apparently which show the thor to be taller than 5 siege tanks, as someone pointed out earlier in this thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eligor
There is also a picture with guys standing on just one part of the shoulder of a thor earlier in the thread which shows it is pretty big, considering 6 guys are standing on one little part of the shoulder.
They should just combine the thor and the battlecruiser , like a bigger viking, that would solve the thors mobility problem:D
The Thor is definitely bigger than several tanks and thus there's no lore reason it should be transportable. I think we should not focusing on the lore and just realize that either the Thor needs to be balanced to be dropped or balanced to not be dropped on island maps.
Unless the Dropship is really bigger than several Thors. :pQuote:
Originally Posted by TychusFindlay
In all honesty though, consideration of scale are subordinate to game balance. So if the Protoss can transport Colossi and the Zerg can transport Ultralisks (which are by the way as big as a Thor, with the Overlord being smaller than a Dropship), then the Thor should be transportable as well.
Which would be possible if it weren't for lore indicating otherwise. I wouldn't be opposed to them changing it for this purpose, however.
The lore for the Thor and MedEvac are not set in stone yet. Therefore, the argument the Thor is too big is m00t.
Well honestly, and I didnt think of this before..Quote:
Originally Posted by TychusFindlay
The medivac dropship isn't the same old dropship. So if they just say the medivac dropship is bigger than a thor, it could work out to just normally pick up a thor and for it to take up the entire space. The new tanks seem bigger than the old tanks too, so it could still work for 2 tanks to a dropship...
Stop pulling things out of thin air. You have no basis or evidence to back your claim of Ultralisks being as big as Thors or god forbid overlords being smaller than dropships. Colossi can be transported through their technology btw, it has nothing to do with size.Quote:
In all honesty though, consideration of scale are subordinate to game balance. So if the Protoss can transport Colossi and the Zerg can transport Ultralisks (which are by the way as big as a Thor, with the Overlord being smaller than a Dropship), then the Thor should be transportable as well.