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Patch 1.3.3 PTR Notes - Updated 05/04
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/1213111662
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lylirra
Balance
* PROTOSS
o Archons are now a massive unit.
o Pylon power radius has been decreased from 7.5 to 6.5.
o Cybernetics Core
+ Research Warp Gate time increased from 140 to 180.
o Gateway
+ Sentry train time decreased from 42 to 37.
+ Stalker train time decreased from 42 to 37.
+ Zealot train time decreased from 38 to 33.
+ Warp Gate unit train times remain unchanged.
* TERRAN
o Ghost
+ Cost changed from 150/150 to 200/100.
+ Salvage resource return reduced from 100% to 75%.
* ZERG
o Spore Crawler
+ Root time decreased from 12 to 6.
Bug Fixes
* Fixed a bug where Ghosts could not quickly EMP the same location.
* Fixed a bug where players were still able to stack flying units on top of each other.
05/04
Quote:
NEW:
Archon:
-Range increased from 2 to 3.
Thor:
-Thor now has 200 max energy, and starts with 50 energy.
-250mm Strike Cannons now cost 150 energy to use (cooldown removed).
Infestor:
-Speed decreased from 2.5 to 2.25.
Bug:
-Fixed an issue where unplugging your USB headset while another player was talking to you could cause a crash.
-Fixed an issue where the APM statistic could be artificially increased.
-Fixed an issue where 3D unit portraits were not animating smoothly at slow game speeds.
-Fixed an issue where, when viewing a replay, no text message was displayed when a player left a game.
CHANGES:
Warpgate:
-Research Warp Gate time increased from 140 to 160.
Gateway:
-Sentry train time decreased from 42 to 37.
-Stalker train time: 42
-Zealot train time: 38
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Re: Patch 1.3.3 PTR Notes - Updated 04/25
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DesertRose
o Archons are now a massive unit.
wow, finally
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Re: Patch 1.3.3 PTR Notes - Updated 04/25
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DesertRose
o Archons are now a massive unit.
are they visually bigger?
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Re: Patch 1.3.3 PTR Notes - Updated 04/25
Ah, 2-gate. My old nemesis has returned.
So, I guess the main purpose of this patch is to fix 4-gate v 4-gate. I don't really think you can make gateways better than warp-gates without simultaneously nerfing warp-gate build time, but we shall see. I'm interested to see how map layouts will change now that pylon range has been decreased. Unless I am mistaken, this is purely so that warping in from the low ground is more difficult, putting proxies in the range of stalkers and marauders.
Also, I had no idea you could salvage ghosts. O_o
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Re: Patch 1.3.3 PTR Notes - Updated 04/25
I like that they're trying to fix 4gate but this sounds more like an invitation to proxy gate. Then again, they reduced the pylon radius probably to address this consequence. We'll see how it plays out.
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Re: Patch 1.3.3 PTR Notes - Updated 04/25
Archons massive....YES!!!! Maybe chargelots with archons in PvP.:p LOLZ.:D
Such big changes to protoss.....
-Pylon power radius decrease: Probably have to change the way we wall off. Might not be able to do the standard walloff vs zerg anymore/might make the pylon flush against the core and gate. Have to test it out...but unfortunately it's on on US PTR as usual. Actually the way the pylon radius has been from low ground is that you could just fit in enough space to warp in zeals that only stalkers and marauders could barely hit the pylon. Basically this will make those pylons at the bottom of ramp within range of marines/sentries/immortals.
EDIT: Wait a minute....FFE is the pylon in range of roaches up against the forge with this change??
-Warpgate research time and gateway unit build time change: With the normal builds now of protoss the change matches up with like the second normal warp-in now. As is the normal second warp-in now would be around the time of first warp-in with this change. Kinda surprised but it does work out that way with the times. Basically at the time of the first warp-in with these new times we should have an influx of units. Gateway units just finished from all gates then all get warped in.
But here's the interesting thing....our units which warp in if the small marine/marauder poke kills our zeal and 1-2 ranged units...reinforcements come out like 28-32 secs later......hello roach/marine&marauder pressure.
This change kills 3 gate aggression though with a normal build. The first warp-in was essential for that. Does seem like if protoss wants more options for early game pressure it would be opening 2 gate. Saving more chronos for wg research should make up for later core.
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Re: Patch 1.3.3 PTR Notes - Updated 04/25
I think that it is pretty awesome patch. And Finally we will see(I hope) more Archons vs. T bio play. They now can't be slowed, and do amazing 47 vs. biological units in AoE. In my Eyes, Archons are a lot better now vs. Terran without Siege Tanks than Immortal.
All other stuff is great too, and is justified in my opinion. AND YES, FINALLY, Salvage is 75%, like it should be from the start! It is just stupid that Terran for their defense doesn't lose anything.
Or even worse, when they Bunker Rush, delay/destroy/cancel your expansion, and then salvage Bunker, and it cost them nothing, while you are pretty fucked... :/
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Re: Patch 1.3.3 PTR Notes - Updated 04/25
Amazing, and how long did people cry for Massive Archons before Blizzard finally listened? :) I'll take a damage buff re: Void Rays as long as FFs and grenades no longer slow them down.
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Re: Patch 1.3.3 PTR Notes - Updated 04/25
Now time to hallucinate archons to screw with the terran's concussive!
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Re: Patch 1.3.3 PTR Notes - Updated 04/25
Some promising changes in here.
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Re: Patch 1.3.3 PTR Notes - Updated 04/25
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IchibanBaka
Now time to hallucinate archons to screw with the terran's concussive!
GENIUS! :D
Also, this patch is BY FAR the best one yet.
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Re: Patch 1.3.3 PTR Notes - Updated 04/25
This patch pretty much destroys the 3RR +24 ling push against Protoss.
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Re: Patch 1.3.3 PTR Notes - Updated 04/25
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JackhammerIV
Archons massive....YES!!!! Maybe chargelots with archons in PvP.:p LOLZ.:D
Such big changes to protoss.....
-Pylon power radius decrease: Probably have to change the way we wall off. Might not be able to do the standard walloff vs zerg anymore/might make the pylon flush against the core and gate. Have to test it out...but unfortunately it's on on US PTR as usual. Actually the way the pylon radius has been from low ground is that you could just fit in enough space to warp in zeals that only stalkers and marauders could barely hit the pylon. Basically this will make those pylons at the bottom of ramp within range of marines/sentries/immortals.
EDIT: Wait a minute....FFE is the pylon in range of roaches up against the forge with this change??
-Warpgate research time and gateway unit build time change: With the normal builds now of protoss the change matches up with like the second normal warp-in now. As is the normal second warp-in now would be around the time of first warp-in with this change. Kinda surprised but it does work out that way with the times. Basically at the time of the first warp-in with these new times we should have an influx of units. Gateway units just finished from all gates then all get warped in.
But here's the interesting thing....our units which warp in if the small marine/marauder poke kills our zeal and 1-2 ranged units...reinforcements come out like 28-32 secs later......hello roach/marine&marauder pressure.
This change kills 3 gate aggression though with a normal build. The first warp-in was essential for that. Does seem like if protoss wants more options for early game pressure it would be opening 2 gate. Saving more chronos for wg research should make up for later core.
I don't feel this kills 3 gate at all. The decrease to build time should allow for some quicker units while the research gets done. It just alters the timing some. Furthermore, a quick gas and core with 2 gates first followed by the third gate as the research starts should keep the timing similar. If anything, this helps my 4 gate in all MUs rather than nerfs because my gas is normally late (i go for early zealot pressure). I agree warpgate plays will be mildly delayed, but just build an extra gate or 2 after core and pop a couple extra units.
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Re: Patch 1.3.3 PTR Notes - Updated 04/25
Wow, I might actually be able to do an Early Ghost Push now with that resource cost "buff". All they need now is a tier3 upgrade for snipe to deal more damage and/or affect all units.
Seriously, not being able to snipe Probes is a joke.
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Re: Patch 1.3.3 PTR Notes - Updated 04/25
These are great changes but fucking all it'll do for 2v2 and 3v3 is mass zealot rushes.. WHICH MEANS, MASS BANELING COUNTER MUHAHAHAHAHAHA
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Re: Patch 1.3.3 PTR Notes - Updated 04/25
Quote:
Originally Posted by
flak4321
I don't feel this kills 3 gate at all. The decrease to build time should allow for some quicker units while the research gets done. It just alters the timing some. Furthermore, a quick gas and core with 2 gates first followed by the third gate as the research starts should keep the timing similar. If anything, this helps my 4 gate in all MUs rather than nerfs because my gas is normally late (i go for early zealot pressure). I agree warpgate plays will be mildly delayed, but just build an extra gate or 2 after core and pop a couple extra units.
It does flak. Cos the influx of units comes 30+ secs later. If the push you do is at about 7mins+ maybe 8mins then it's fine.
Now think 3 gate sentry expo vs zerg. You have 1 zeal and 2 sentries out at 6mins and plant the nexus. Can immediately warp in 3 more sentries. Now those 3 sentries come in 30secs later. That 3gate expo build even builds gates pretty much as soon as they can be afforded. Maybe you can cut it down to getting the 3 sentries 20secs later (with improved build etc) than normal but it's still later. Problem being protoss resource distribution can't really afford gates sooner going gate->core->gas+gates unless you stop probe production for a while. Opens up a timing for lings to deny nexus. Would completely negate 3gate expo as it is now. Protoss would be forced to expo later.
And any poking using the first warpin against terran is negated since it basically is weaker due to warpgate research time increased. It changes every build. The time when we are "vulnerable" and when we can apply pressure with gateway units. It changes every matchup involving protoss up to when the new change sort of meets with the old change. Timings get pushed back making early game versus toss more comfortable for the other races. It's not like we had a particularly scary early game beyond 4gate.
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Re: Patch 1.3.3 PTR Notes - Updated 04/25
Now that I think about it, the warp gate research nerf indirectly nerfs the hallucination research timing (unless you go hallucination first T_T)
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Re: Patch 1.3.3 PTR Notes - Updated 04/25
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IchibanBaka
Now that I think about it, the warp gate research nerf indirectly nerfs the hallucination research time (unless you go hallucination first T_T)
Going hallu first further pushes back your warpins. The normal builds we do now where we convert gates to warpgates as they finish. There's a 5sec time to convert units into warpgates. So 5 sec less build time in this PTR change will put out units at the end of the production cycle instead of the beginning. But every following warp-in missed by delaying warpgate puts our production 5 secs behind.
With the build time increase and if we put more chronos on wg research then it'll finish basically after the first full production cycle pumping units out of gateways. With the conversion time to warpgates it means all protoss production off gateways will be 5 secs late. Not that horrible. But starting hallucination will be around 30secs later. Especially important for 3gate sentry expands.:p More time in the dark basically.
No one really cares much about that though. Basically everyone is focusing on 4gate wars in PvP. Wanting PvP to reach the midgame where it is blink vs phoenix vs colossi wars. LOL. PvP will always be micro intensive and played on a hair trigger even in the midgame. It will always be a bit of rock-paper-scissors. PvP will never reach the lategame at high levels of play. Just expanding puts you behind enough that you can be killed by the opponent.
Even with no 4gate, people will start complaining in PvP that the moment someone expands the other person 1bases it and most of the time wins. With the change sure it won't be 4gate but in the end it'll be really micro intensive just with higher tech units. TvT is the strategic mirror matchup (getting nice siege lines and slowly trying to edge out an advantage). ZvZ is the sort of showdown mirror matchup (seeing who pools first and who's greedy enough to make 5 drones instead of 4). PvP is the micro and perfection matchup (one small slipup like an early supply block or moment of mismicro and you can lose).
This whole wg research time change just changes what you have to micro in PvP.
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Re: Patch 1.3.3 PTR Notes - Updated 04/25
Can someone please explain to me how exactly the archon change affects the unit? I know that it can now destroy force fields, cannot be slowed by concussive shells (?), takes more damage from void rays and other units that deal additional dmg to massive units... but how does the archon now deal more damage as I thought someone mentioned?
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Re: Patch 1.3.3 PTR Notes - Updated 04/25
The Archon does more damage to biological units anyway (41 or so), but now without the slowing affect of marauders, they are going to be able to get into a bio-ball much faster and destroy the marines, which are what actually do the damage to most units. The breaking of force fields is just a plus.
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Re: Patch 1.3.3 PTR Notes - Updated 04/25
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jabber Wookie
Can someone please explain to me how exactly the archon change affects the unit? I know that it can now destroy force fields, cannot be slowed by concussive shells (?), takes more damage from void rays and other units that deal additional dmg to massive units... but how does the archon now deal more damage as I thought someone mentioned?
Yes, exactly what almostfamous said. Fully upgraded Archon deals 47 damage on Biological units in AoE. The only reason why they weren't built enough was because they couldn't even reach the Bio Ball because of constant kiting of Marauders with Concussive Shells. Now that they can't get slowed anymore, people will replace Immortals vs. Terran Bio Ball with Archons, since Archon isn't Light nor Armored unit, his tanking capabilities are even better than Immortals vs. Marauders, and will deal greater damage because of splash.
I still remember, back in the Beta days, when I was watching Jinro vs. Nazgul game on Blistering Sands. Jinro was ahead the whole game, Nazgul was losing many probes, units, etc. In the End, Jinro continued with his Marine, Marauder and Medivac push, while Nazgul had only Zealots and High Templars, after using Storms, he turned all of them to Archons, that with Support of Zealots, that were tanking the damage, ate whole Terran army. I can't remember the comment of Jinro, but it was something like "Wtf, where did my army go, there is something wrong here...".
People never really used Archons that much because they are easly countered by proper micro from Terran army, and they are not used vs. Zerg either because... well I don't have a clue, they can crush any Zerg army and are especially strong in late game vs. Ultras.
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Re: Patch 1.3.3 PTR Notes - Updated 04/25
@RamiZ: Sure, except that EMP rapes Archons and Ghosts are now 200/100.
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Re: Patch 1.3.3 PTR Notes - Updated 04/25
EMP doesn't rape archons any more than any other unit. EMP only drains 100 shield points, unlike in broodwar. Archons have plenty of shields (350) and can regenerate them quite rapidly outside of combat unlike broodwar.
The bioball might try to kite and snipe archons, but with sentry support you can pin them down with forcefield, or make them waste shots or hopefully EMPs on fake archons with hallucination. And guardian shields give archons +2 shield armor, which makes them even more formidable.
These things are scary, and the massive buff allows them to actually do their job against Terran, especially late game when you start to accumulate them.
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Re: Patch 1.3.3 PTR Notes - Updated 04/25
This is going to destroy that pvt 3 gate aggressive expo strat. Was actually a decent build. :[
Anyway, I have never used an Archon in PvT, opting to save high templar for more storms. Could care less about that change. And as with every patch, here is my obligatory protoss-biased Hitler rant:
Quote:
Burgdorf: My fuhrer, the latest ptr patch notes are in. Bunkers are no longer free for Terrans, and the Archon received a minor buff. In return, Protoss' best rush strategy has been nerfed, as have pylons themselves which I didn't even think was possible.
Krebs: Oh and the early game timings for virtually all protoss strategies are now essentially fuxored. *points to map
Hitler: I guess we can live with that. Tell me what they did to fix terran bio though. *motions fingers
Krebs: My fuhrer....ghosts...
Jodl: Ghosts are now cheaper to produce. The ghost rush is back.
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Re: Patch 1.3.3 PTR Notes - Updated 04/25
I think the reason they buffed the ghost is simple. /sarcasm on Everytime protoss gets nerfed we get stronger.:p
http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:A...5ZhZua6Kbw&t=1
Next it'll be "4 Gate Nerfed Now Protoss Unstoppable". We're just an unstoppable race. If zerg or terran get nerfed their race gets weaker. But every time protoss gets nerfed the other races fear us more. We're like a lion on its dying breath. BAM!!!! BASH THEIR HEADS IN THE WEAKER WE GET!!!
Imagine if they made concussive more expensive or longer to research..... The cheapest upgrade that gives protoss the most trouble early game. It'd just make every terran lose in every single PvT. Protoss is already so overpowered with nerfed HTs. And Blizzard even fixed a bug where terrans had trouble getting their ghosts to constantly EMP. Obviously must be hard spamming EMP like twice to take away all energy of casters in a radius. /sarcasm off
So my protoss compratriots do not worry. The zergs and terrans are looking at this protoss nerf thinking "Oh shit....protoss is gonna rape us now because they got a fresh nerf." Just start every match with "guess what...protoss got nerfed :)" and zergs and terrans will shit their pants remembering what happened after HTs were nerfed.
EDIT: LOL. I laugh at my own jokes.:p
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Re: Patch 1.3.3 PTR Notes - Updated 04/25
Quote:
Everytime protoss gets nerfed we get stronger.
Clearly we must remove the Charge, Blink and Thermal Lance upgrades if we truly want to guarantee victory :D
Quote:
@RamiZ: Sure, except that EMP rapes Archons and Ghosts are now 200/100.
Archons take 3-4 EMPs to drain depending on how much damage they've taken, and frankly if they're getting EMPed they're doing exactly what they're meant to do. Better them than something that loses all its shields and energy.
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Re: Patch 1.3.3 PTR Notes - Updated 04/25
@Jackhammer
Well, I'm going to answer your response to me in two ways. First, I misread the notes, and thought the increase was to 160, not 180. This is significant, more so than I thought.
Second, my instinct is power probe with chrono so I can have an extra gate b4 warpgate research finishes. I might be tempted to 4 or 5 gate into warpgates so I have the production facilities to offset the time lost. It will require some experimentation though. It seems this might make more tosses consider the forge fast expand in somewhat riskier situations.
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Re: Patch 1.3.3 PTR Notes - Updated 04/25
Well Forge FE can fail badly if a gating Protoss attacks immediately with his first zealot and a probe or 2. The cannon will not finish in time, and it is SOO easy to just pylon the natural to block any FE attempt and then just 3 gate pressure while expanding yourself.
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Re: Patch 1.3.3 PTR Notes - Updated 04/25
Quote:
Originally Posted by
protoswarrior
Well Forge FE can fail badly if a gating Protoss attacks immediately with his first zealot and a probe or 2. The cannon will not finish in time, and it is SOO easy to just pylon the natural to block any FE attempt and then just 3 gate pressure while expanding yourself.
If we're talking PvP, blink stalkers will completely rape a successful forge FE. Hell, even a 3 gate robo will.
FE'ing is not viable in PvP.
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Re: Patch 1.3.3 PTR Notes - Updated 04/25
I said only that forge FE would be considered. I personally would at least 2 gate then expand while pressuring. A straight FE in a PvP would fail prepatch definitely. Post patch, that first Zealot would be quicker to get, which would make the fastest fast expands too risky in PvP yes, but my comment was originally meant to cover all MU's. Apologies if that didn't come through.
As for stalkers, normal stalkers would be a concern for any FE, but blink takes a while to research. The fast expand would be mining in this time, but perhaps wouldn't be completely protected, so it is possible blinkers might be an issue, but I would send a wave pre-blink just to pressure/scout.
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Re: Patch 1.3.3 PTR Notes - Updated 04/25
Quote:
Originally Posted by
flak4321
As for stalkers, normal stalkers would be a concern for any FE, but blink takes a while to research. The fast expand would be mining in this time, but perhaps wouldn't be completely protected, so it is possible blinkers might be an issue, but I would send a wave pre-blink just to pressure/scout.
You can have 5 stalkers + blink done at 6:13 minutes. Your expansion will be nowhere saturated at that point, especially if you go 2 gate first. You will need cannons ( at least 2-3 ) in the front, which the stalkers will easily and quickly bypass.
2 gate pressure is/will be almost useless, since it will probably only force your opponent to build gates equal to yours. I can see that it might do a little bit of damage when spawn close positions on certain maps. He can easily transition into a 4 gate rush. Meanwhile, you have to get a forge and cannons up. 1 forge, 1 nexus and 3 cannons will cost you 1000 minerals. That's 10 zealots.
Also, when your opponent gets 2 colossus with range out, those cannons will be rendered useless.
Also, there is no way that you can send a wave of units out before blink, and pressure, if you've also expanded.
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Re: Patch 1.3.3 PTR Notes - Updated 04/25
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Peanutbutter
You can have 5 stalkers + blink done at 6:13 minutes. Your expansion will be nowhere saturated at that point, especially if you go 2 gate first. You will need cannons ( at least 2-3 ) in the front, which the stalkers will easily and quickly bypass.
2 gate pressure is/will be almost useless, since it will probably only force your opponent to build gates equal to yours. I can see that it might do a little bit of damage when spawn close positions on certain maps. He can easily transition into a 4 gate rush. Meanwhile, you have to get a forge and cannons up. 1 forge, 1 nexus and 3 cannons will cost you 1000 minerals. That's 10 zealots.
Also, when your opponent gets 2 colossus with range out, those cannons will be rendered useless.
Also, there is no way that you can send a wave of units out before blink, and pressure, if you've also expanded.
It is possible, but extremely difficult and requires good APM. Also, by no means did I intend to imply full saturation on the expo nexus. Here's the build order: 4 probes, pylon, gatex2, pylon, cyb, zealots x2 (send immediately upon completion), gas, gas, zealots x2-4, warpgate research, nexus, gates x2 (gates and nexus interchangeable), twi council, robo, blink. +1 weapons as soon as affordable (usually simultaneous w/ nexus drop) Time: 7 to 8 minutes to reach nexus point, depending on pressure from opponent. Probes, pylons, zealots producing continuously after above mentions during course of build as affordable. Probe count should reach 30 at least, while zealot count reaches about 12. I also have 4 stalkers at this point. Variation note: sometimes i'll delay twi council & blink in favor of double robo.
Other Notes: Personal success rate of 33% on a good day, 10% overall. Decision to do this depends on scouting. DO NOT attempt if you've scouted an early pool, roach den, more gates than you have or vs. Terran bio, unless on map where expo can be hidden.
Peanut, I thank you for your opinions. I make most of these statements to be corrected and learn where to tweak best. :)
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Re: Patch 1.3.3 PTR Notes - Updated 04/25
Quote:
Originally Posted by
flak4321
It is possible, but extremely difficult and requires good APM. Also, by no means did I intend to imply full saturation on the expo nexus. Here's the build order: 4 probes, pylon, gatex2, pylon, cyb, zealots x2 (send immediately upon completion), gas, gas, zealots x2-4, warpgate research, nexus, gates x2 (gates and nexus interchangeable), twi council, robo, blink. +1 weapons as soon as affordable (usually simultaneous w/ nexus drop) Time: 7 to 8 minutes to reach nexus point, depending on pressure from opponent. Probes, pylons, zealots producing continuously after above mentions during course of build as affordable. Probe count should reach 30 at least, while zealot count reaches about 12. I also have 4 stalkers at this point. Variation note: sometimes i'll delay twi council & blink in favor of double robo.
Other Notes: Personal success rate of 33% on a good day, 10% overall. Decision to do this depends on scouting. DO NOT attempt if you've scouted an early pool, roach den, more gates than you have or vs. Terran bio, unless on map where expo can be hidden.
Peanut, I thank you for your opinions. I make most of these statements to be corrected and learn where to tweak best. :)
In PvZ 2 gate pressure might be useful again, especially since many zerg go hatch first these days.
In PvT, it's useless since marines and marauders kite zealots.
Let's talk PvP. First of all, you didn't include cannons or a forge in the BO. Without them, you'll die 100% to any kind of one base pressure ( 3 gate robo, 4 gate, 3 gate blink stalkers ) and especially DT's. At least one cannon is required.
If i see you put down 2 gates, and chronoboosting them, I'll immediately do this same. I might even come out a bit ahead, since i'll probably have more probes by then.
You'll only have zealots, which means that i should theoretically be able to keep my scout alive forever. As soon as i see an expansion, i'll just out-zealot you : )
Let's talk 4 gate.
In the new patch, assuming constant chronoboost, a 4 WG rush will arrive 20 seconds later that it does before ( It arrives at around 5:30 now, will arrive at around 6 after patch ). At this point, I'll have 6 stalkers and one zealot, and you'll have 6 zealots. Unless you put a cannon at the bottom of your ramp, i'll contain you, thus preventing any kind of expansion until you get enough stalkers. I'll continually get stalkers, meaning that you're going to need more cannons.
After I've pressured you enough, and force 2-3 extra cannons, i'll safely transition into blink with an observer, and kill you right there and then.
A 3 gate robo might be a bit more weak, considering you're going mass zealot in the beginning, but i think that it will be manageable w some forcefields.
So, the FE build basically loses to every common protoss build out there. You can transition well into any aggressive build from a 2 gate, so i don't see this working. Hiding the expo is out of the question, since any decent protoss will notice that somethings wrong.
Also, in PvT and PvZ there are much safer FE builds.
A simple forge FE in PvZ is better for establishing an early game economy, aimed for the mid game. 3 gate sentry FE is the safest FE build in PvZ atm.
In PvT 1 gate FE, 3 gate FE, and 2gate robo are the only viable FE builds.
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Re: Patch 1.3.3 PTR Notes - Updated 04/25
If you see a forge FE in pvp just expand yourself and you're already ahead because you didn't build a forge or cannons, not to mention that you're ahead in tech too.
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Re: Patch 1.3.3 PTR Notes - Updated 04/25
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gradius
If you see a forge FE in pvp just expand yourself and you're already ahead because you didn't build a forge or cannons, not to mention that you're ahead in tech too.
Either that, or crush it outright. There's a reason that no one FE's ( And wins ) in PvP.
It's generally risky to FE in mirror MU's ( I think ), but even more so with PvP, because you can instantly reinforce a push no matter the distance.
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Re: Patch 1.3.3 PTR Notes - Updated 04/25
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Peanutbutter
Either that, or crush it outright. There's a reason that no one FE's ( And wins ) in PvP.
It's generally risky to FE in mirror MU's ( I think ), but even more so with PvP, because you can instantly reinforce a push no matter the distance.
PvP is the the riskiest matchup to FE on. Like you see ZvZs and they can hold their FE barely with good micro and spines. Or TvTs they just barely hold FEs with SCVs and bunkers. In PvP...blink stalker with one obs or hallu. Could always 1 base colossus with range and just wreck shit.:P Very easy to get killed in PvP if you expo and the opponent decides to just make stuff and attack.
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Re: Patch 1.3.3 PTR Notes - Updated 04/25
I wonder when they will make the adjustments to make Carrier and MS usable to at least some degree...
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Re: Patch 1.3.3 PTR Notes - Updated 04/25
Well carriers have one of the highest or perhaps the highest DPS in the game. It does it in small attacks though so armor upgrades negate it quite a bit. Motherships still have recall, vortex and cloaking. They're still usable. Especially in PvZ.
Basically you could use carriers and mothership in PvP and PvZ in certain situations but harder to use them in PvT due to vikings and marines.
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Re: Patch 1.3.3 PTR Notes - Updated 04/25
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hunter_I
I wonder when they will make the adjustments to make Carrier and MS usable to at least some degree...
They are both useful, albeit easily counter able under the right conditions.
In PvP there's no way that we'll see Carriers and MS's. In PvT I've seen some games, where players have had moderate success with carriers and motherships.
The thing is, that in both PvZ and PvT colossus is a pretty standard unit ( HT's being used only in lategame PvT ). The most common counter is the Viking/Corrupter, and they both counter the carrier and MS pretty well. Especially the corrupter.
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Re: Patch 1.3.3 PTR Notes - Updated 04/25
Carriers are a good counter for Thors in PvT, if you can afford it.