Ideas for base defenses

I'd like to open a thread discussing the possibilities for alternative base defenses. Share your ideas on how each race could better defend their turf, or any abilities or mechanics which could make some of the pre-requisite buildings more entertaining.

Terrans

• Sensor Tower - Allow players to activate/deactive its detection, consequently dictating when it's revealed to enemies. By default detection is off upon construction and must be manually activated. This way Terran players don't have to worry about inadvertently revealing their position when attempting to set up an ambush.
• Planetary Fortress - Upgrading your CC to the fortress allows you to garrison up to 8 SCV's into it instead of 5.
• Engineering Bay - This building alone can allow for upgrades while lifted off. Because of this, players can mobilize it as a scout or retreat it while under siege without worrying about disrupting upgrades.
• Plasma Turrets - Missile turrets can be upgraded to a plasma turret. These defenses do not fire by themselves and require manual activation. They fire a plasma missile which explodes in the air doing AOE damage to ships nearby. Think missile commander. The way it works is you select the turret and activate the ability. Once activated a limited radius is revealed around it showing where you can fire. When you bring your mouse into this area the turret follows your cursor wherever you go, alerting players you have the missile armed and potentially revealing your target. Click to fire at that spot.

Zerg

• Baneling Nest - It's a giant freaking spider! Let this thing move around on creep. Why? Players can use it as a choke block or to wall of defenses. Also, instead of releasing broodlings upon death cause this building to explode in a puddle of poisonous Baneling acid, dealing AOE damage to all adjacent units. This could give Zerg players a measure of last defense when threatened against swarms of melee attackers.
• Mobile Creep Tumors - When built on creep, these invisible tumors slowly secrete a limited supply of creep within a radius of itself which begins depleting immediately (think of it as a timer). If stationary, the tumor will propagate creep in a concentric circle from itself. But when moving (which is very slow), you can use it to paint a chose path you wish to extend your creep out to. This can be handy for connecting bases or extended carpets out from your base to speed movement. When the creep supply is depleted the tumor becomes permanently anchored into the ground.

Protoss

• Building Hallucinations - This ability requires both a Disruptor and a Mothership. The Disruptor, while directly underneath the MShip in a set radius, can direct its energy up to her to project a hallucination of a building below inside pylon power and within the same radius of the Mship. Players can choose from a few available buildings (cannon, pylon, gateway, obelisk). Cannons will attack but do no damage, and gateways can be converted back and forth between a warp gate. Buildings dissipate after time and are vaporized when their shields are depleted.
• Fleet Beacon - The giant orb on the fleet beacon emits a powerful psionic matrix allowing for warp-in of ships within a limited radius of itself. Set a waypoint around it from your Stargates, and any newly trained ships will materialize next to it rather than at the Stargate. Ships can be damaged during the brief warp-in animation.
• Dark Shrine - Representing the culmination of Dark Templar technology, the Dark Shrine cloaks any ground forces directly adjacent to it.

Any ideas of your own?

I completely like this. I still can't believe that in 12 years, we are STILL using proton cannon as protoss base defense. We're STILL using bunkers. We're STILL using sunken colonies.

Come on...

The obelisk should make protoss base defense allot more interesting.

Your plasma turret idea is entertaining but I dont think it works for starcraft as well I dont really know why you included the engineering bay in there. as well the supply dept should probably be in there now too.

for the terrans, I think it would be cool if they had an ability or a per building upgrade that allows their buildings to have their own gunners shoot out of the building.

for the zerg, I think that they should combine the hatchery and the nydus network(or again have a per building upgrade that allows the hatchery to become part of the nydus network.)

for the protoss... I think it would be cool if the photon cannons acted like the prism towers from cnc red alert 2 with all their photon cannons using each other to transfer their shots to a photon cannon thats in range. I think that would be pretty cool but it might be quite unbalanced.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RODTHEGOD

for the protoss... I think it would be cool if the photon cannons acted like the prism towers from cnc red alert 2 with all their photon cannons using each other to transfer their shots to a photon cannon thats in range. I think that would be pretty cool but it might be quite unbalanced.

---

That would be awesome! If you limited the jumping range to like 3 photon cannons it could be balanced.

The Terran have gotten Sensor Tower and Bunker Upgrade. The Zerg have gotten mobile crawlers. My concern is with the Protoss, whose Photon Cannons have only received a Hp upgrade.

Building cloaking ala Mothership for Protoss would be cool

Having Sunkens and Spores able to lift up and replant themselves would be awesome too

What about increasing bunker capacity as well? That'd be neat.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DemolitionSquid

The Terran have gotten Sensor Tower and Bunker Upgrade. The Zerg have gotten mobile crawlers. My concern is with the Protoss, whose Photon Cannons have only received a Hp upgrade.

---

Why don't they let the photon cannon teleport again? I don't know why that was ever removed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Muspelli

Why don't they let the photon cannon teleport again? I don't know why that was ever removed.

---

Because it overlaps with the zerg defenses. I don't mind the obelisk being the center of base defense if its abilities actually get used (it needs to blink).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DemolitionSquid

The Terran have gotten Sensor Tower and Bunker Upgrade. The Zerg have gotten mobile crawlers. My concern is with the Protoss, whose Photon Cannons have only received a Hp upgrade.

---

I used to share your concern, but the Obelisk actually offers some nice flexibility for both base defense and aggressive pursuits. It's like a pimped out shield battery that also offer pylon power.

Shame the cannons lost their phasing ability and remain relatively unchanged. But in all honesty they are still the most versatile defenses of all races, offering detection while attacking both ground and air.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Blazur

I used to share your concern, but the Obelisk actually offers some nice flexibility for both base defense and aggressive pursuits. It's like a pimped out shield battery that also offer pylon power.

---

Obelisk no longer provides pylon power or supply. But it will still be very useful in base defence.

Quote:

---

Why don't they let the photon cannon teleport again? I don't know why that was ever removed.

---

They never teleported; they could simply convert into a mobile form. Like the current Zerg crawlers. That's why they removed it; they put it on Zerg defenses instead of Protoss ones.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ArcherofAiur

Obelisk no longer provides pylon power or supply. But it will still be very useful in base defence.

---

Oh, well that's disappointing to hear. I had entire strategies planned revolving around the use of the Obelisk under the assumption it could be used in lieu of regular pylons :o

For the Protoss, what about giving them a second defensive structure (or an upgrade for individual Photon Cannons) called a Phase Cannon that can, for a cost of 25 minerals and 10 second casting time, translocate to another location within the psionic matrix. With this, players can move their defenses from base to base in the event of an enemy attack (saving on defense expenses). It also makes defending a proxy Pylon much more achievable.

Maybe we're looking at the idea of a Phase Cannon the wrong way. Right now, all the suggestions involve the Cannon changing forms, moving, or teleporting. What if we apply a change to its target instead? Regular Photon Cannon deals damage to target, Phase Cannon upgrade does X to target. None of the other races defensive structures apply a debuff.

Maybe Phase Cannons can fire slowly, temporarily phasing out enemy units so they miss their own firing cycles.

Some defense towers off the top of my head:

Terran
- Railgun tower defense, shoots in a line, kills in a line.
- Flame tower defense, a la Hellion. Able to scorch the ground in front of it.

Protoss
- Psi Storm tower defense, shoots psi storm like lightning at 1-3 targets, dealing appropriate damage (3 targets = 1/3 damage to each unit) Can chain towers together to deliver more dmg (a la prism towers in RA2)
-

Zerg
- Mantaling Shooter - shoots mantalings that do a total of 30 damage (20 impact damage and 10 strike damage, the mantaling is alive for only 1 second or can swipe the enemy unit once before it dies)
- Morphing defense, default defense is a spine crawler, but you can send units into it to morph it into multiple types of defensive structures.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wankey

...
- Flame tower defense, a la Hellion. Able to scorch the ground in front of it.
...

---

Aside from the scorching, that actually appears in the campaign if Kotaku is to be believed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nicol Bolas

They never teleported; they could simply convert into a mobile form. Like the current Zerg crawlers. That's why they removed it; they put it on Zerg defenses instead of Protoss ones.

---

But looking at it from another angle, couldn't we say that now the Protoss are the odd man out? Zerg defenses can get up and walk away. Terran defenses can be deconstructed for a full refund and set up shop elsewhere. Now Protoss are the only ones who can't move theirs.

If Terran and Zerg overlap in this area is fine, is it really so wrong for Protoss to get it, as well?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Muspelli

Why don't they let the photon cannon teleport again? I don't know why that was ever removed.

---

Because they gave it to the Zerg. Photon Cannons are fine as they are.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Blazur

Oh, well that's disappointing to hear. I had entire strategies planned revolving around the use of the Obelisk under the assumption it could be used in lieu of regular pylons :o

---

I know, right? I think removing it makes the Obelisk LESS versatile, not more contentious. It shouldn't provide psi of course, but power? That just opens up the strategies with warp-in.

Personally, I think warp-in is all the Protoss need in terms of new defenses.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by pure.Wasted

But looking at it from another angle, couldn't we say that now the Protoss are the odd man out? Zerg defenses can get up and walk away. Terran defenses can be deconstructed for a full refund and set up shop elsewhere. Now Protoss are the only ones who can't move theirs.

If Terran and Zerg overlap in this area is fine, is it really so wrong for Protoss to get it, as well?

---

I'm inclined to agree, and I always have. I don't see why all three races can't have mobility in their defenses.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wankey

I completely like this. I still can't believe that in 12 years, we are STILL using proton cannon as protoss base defense. We're STILL using bunkers. We're STILL using sunken colonies.

Come on...

---

i agree.

2 years ago i made thread talking about base defenses in sc2 being completely identical to sc1. canon for the toss, turret and bunker, and sunkens for zerg (even if they walk theres still nothing much to it).

I also mention the value and importance of base defenses that it should be given some innovation and make it a big part on pro games as well.

the responses are the same apparently, dont fix which isn't broken. they say base defense should just be a "minor" support for base defenses and you should need troops all over you base all the time. my reply, damn fanboys. haha.

well i say change the mechanics of base defenses as well and give it a strategic value as well. SC2 lacks innovation on how base defenses are played.


Here are some of my ideas.

1.) An aerial base defense (ATG), which is available mid to late game for balance reason. (originally for my UED concept race). Think about it, static floating protoss canon, now jackal, reapers, etc...can't do shit. Viking and Corruptor will be ideal against it. A lot of different strategy and unit raid decision is needed. The building can be mass but easily be countered by ATA units.


2.) AOE base defenses (lorewise base defenses should deal mass damage obviously). This should be a late game building as it is very powerful. I think the zerg needs this one. Major reason why you need battlecruisers, carrier, and mothership. Its about time the big guns makes a constant appearance in pro games. AOE defenses>smaller units. bigger units>AOE defenses. Combination of normal and AOE defenses = all units possible not just mass stalkers etc!

Zerg creep colony level upgrade fits well for this as zerg buildings can evolve. Upgrade the spores by the time you get hive and it will become a huge defensive building that shoots gigantic green balls (like the bugs in starship troopeers) which deal AOE damage. HP of this building is not greatly improve for balance and so that it will still be vulnerable to large units like thors and bcs and mass small units will still be able to handle it 50% of the time. It will not be able to walk. Also it cost supply you need 2 drones and morph them to the targeted sunken or spore hence not massable.


3.) Hardened shield toss canon, siege tank ultralisk battlecruiser will do minor damage. you will actually need small units like marines and zerglings to easily destroy this type of canon. for balance reason make it 1 per pylon field. SO the strategy is to build this in the middle of multiple normal pylons so that marine will have a hard time to attack it. yamato would still blow it in one shot though. ^^

4.) Super base defense. The terran need this. You can only build one. The Ion canon the ultimate terran base defense. You get it after building the fusion core. It has an attack radius and can only be build next to a command center. Will not overlap bunker siege tanks turrets etc. Deal massive damage in a linear pattern killing small units instantly and dealing damage over time. Requires 5 supply depots, after firing 5 supply depots will malfunction and wil be out of service. SO mass those depots well if you can. Good counter is to destroy nearby supply depots so that it will not be activated.


5.) Pylon detonation. All pylons near the nexus explodes and deals damage to surrounding units. Activate it in the nexus. Pros- it will kill your enemies. COns - you require addition pylons.

I like the idea of making new types and mechanics for base defenses it gives a lot of firepower feel.

This idea are never meant to turtle completely as there are counters for it. The idea is to make most type of units useful and add more complex strategy and decision in how you raid or you want to setup base defenses. If you dont know how to counter this base defense or make the perfect base defenses then your done.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by electricmole

5.) Pylon detonation. All pylons near the nexus explodes and deals damage to surrounding units. Activate it in the nexus. Pros- it will kill your enemies. And allows you to steal the Matriarch. COns - you require addition pylons.

---

Fixed ;)

There's already been a thread discussing this sort of thing.

One of the defences I proposed was an Ibiks Turret (the PF has two):
Cost: 100/100 min/gas
Time: 30
Hp: 200
Damage: 20 (splash) GtG
Range: 6

Seriously, what's the point in activating/deactivating the sensor tower? There is none!

There is no "giving away positions."
Your position is already given away barely 2 minutes into the game when the opponent scouts you with an overlord or worker.

As for expansions, it's a risk you have to take.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pandonetho

Seriously, what's the point in activating/deactivating the sensor tower? There is none!

---

Unless they changed the mechanics of this building, the sensor tower would drop a range display (similar to what the tank has) onto the map revealing its position to the enemy. So if you were to build one on the perimeter of an enemies base they'll see a line popup the moment it's built.

From the SC2 website:

Quote:

---

The downside to all this multi-spectrum output is that foes can easily detect the presence of a sensor tower and use it to identify the whereabouts of a terran base. Other

---

Furthermore, I've heard reports that a sensor tower built in proximity to a turret is needed to give detection to them.

Giving control over this could let Terran players hide the range indicator. Unless of course this has all changed in which case this is a moot point. Haven't really heard/seen much of the sensor tower lately.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DemolitionSquid

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by pure.Wasted

But looking at it from another angle, couldn't we say that now the Protoss are the odd man out? Zerg defenses can get up and walk away. Terran defenses can be deconstructed for a full refund and set up shop elsewhere. Now Protoss are the only ones who can't move theirs.

If Terran and Zerg overlap in this area is fine, is it really so wrong for Protoss to get it, as well?

---

I'm inclined to agree, and I always have. I don't see why all three races can't have mobility in their defenses.

---

As do I. I'm glad to hear that this time "overlapping" doesn't constrain our imagination neither the infinite combinations of mechanics.
I think we agree this can be common to the three races with just certain variants:

1. -Zerg defenses can get up and walk
2. -Terran defenses can be deconsturcted for full refund and re built somewhere else
3. -Protoss Photon cannons can upgrade to Phase cannons for a certain cost. Once upgraded they can freely warp out to any point within the psi matrix. Warping uses a similar animation to being warped by a probe but takes less time (let's say just 7 seconds) and the ability has a cooldown so it can't be used again until it recharges another 14 seconds.

Lots of necromancy today.

Anyway, this is the kind of thing that would best be done in an expansion. After having a 6 month beta and a year or so of playing the live game, then you can see whether it is necessary for the Protoss to get defense movement. Don't forget: the Protoss have the only base defense that can attack both air and ground (without needing troops, of course).

I'm not a fan of giving Cannons a warp-in mechanic. The ability to transport your defences anywhere on a whim sounds scary good. I mean you could teleport a cannon all the way to the other side of the map, right into a fight, and then teleport back over afterwards.

Of course if you gave it a sort of "down time" after being warped it could be alright. The down time could even be related to how far you're teleporting said cannon, so all the way across the map would cost say a minute of inactivity and for shorter distances it would be less.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Raisk

I'm not a fan of giving Cannons a warp-in mechanic. The ability to transport your defences anywhere on a whim sounds scary good. I mean you could teleport a cannon all the way to the other side of the map, right into a fight, and then teleport back over afterwards.

Of course if you gave it a sort of "down time" after being warped it could be alright. The down time could even be related to how far you're teleporting said cannon, so all the way across the map would cost say a minute of inactivity and for shorter distances it would be less.

---

:eek: Did you read my post?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Josue

As do I. I'm glad to hear that this time "overlapping" doesn't constrain our imagination neither the infinite combinations of mechanics.
I think we agree this can be common to the three races with just certain variants:

1. -Zerg defenses can get up and walk
2. -Terran defenses can be deconsturcted for full refund and re built somewhere else
3. -Protoss Photon cannons can upgrade to Phase cannons for a certain cost. Once upgraded they can freely warp out to any point within the psi matrix. Warping uses a similar animation to being warped by a probe but takes less time (let's say just 7 seconds) and the ability has a cooldown so it can't be used again until it recharges another 14 seconds.

---

:rolleyes:
Well? I gave it a cooldown. let's make it more interesting. change those times: warping out a phase cannon to warp it into another location costs 1/3 of the time of a photon cannon being normally warped/built by a probe. cooldown to re use the ability by the phase cannon is 2/3 of that time. The total time you will spend to move it and get it back will be more than warp/build by a probe just by 1/3 of the normal production time. Besides of that, the phase cannon will be vulnerable at two points in the map: the point from which it's warping out and the point in which it's warping in for 1/3 of the time of it's normal production time.

Actually, A good idea for "Phase Cannons" might be that they have 0 shields when warped in.... (especially if the Protoss delayed shield mechanic is restored)

I'm disappointed no one took my idea seriously. A debuffing static defense would be new to SC, and it works well in other games.

Debuffs could work well.

one of the early 3D RTS, Battle Realms, had Towers for defense. You could build up to a limit of 3 or 4. The towers themselves didn't do much damage, but they had an on-use ability on cooldown that did an AoE debuff on the enemy raiding force, something like a 50% movement/attack speed debuff. This helped minimize damage on your own forces (vulnerable workers could run away) and give the player time to get their defenses over there. I think it was a much more fun macro system than simply build-and-forget auto attacking turrets. Defenses with abilities would be fun to use.

I guess this is kind of a 'no duh, everyone else has done that' idea, but I was thinking of a new aspect to the Shield Battery.
Shield Shelter:
Creates a protective shield over an area, similar to "Dark Swarm", except it's permanently over an area so long as the building is on-line. The shield selectively hardens against ALL incoming attacks, but drops momentarily to let outgoing attacks through. Once the building's shields are down, it and all of the units within it's barrier may be attacked.
Health: 500 shields, 100 hp.
Yeah, a lot of shields, but it's covering a decent-sized area, so you'd be able to get Zerglings all around it, or hit it with a bunch of Siege Tanks, or simply an EMP.

Also, to give the player something to think about, as soon as the building goes down, it gives off a low-power, wide AoE EMP...

Scourge Apiary:
Zerg defensive unit, generating a swarm every 1.5 seconds and storing up to five, without cost. When an enemy air unit comes close enough, a scourge swarm is loosed, dealing 25X3 damage against the air unit.
Health: 125
Cost: Whatever nixes it enough.

I don't agree with Electricmole's addiction to "UBER-PWNZER" weaponry. If something is rare and special, but every faction has such a rare and special unit/building, and it appears in every late multiplayer game, it ceases to be rare and special.

Ergo:
Hull-Down Emplacement.
A Neosteel trench that allows the Crucio Siege Tank to go hull-down, it shortens the transformation time (no need for the X-treads) and gives +5 armor, +50 health.

Ion canon for the terran (AOE damage).

Floating (air) static base defenses for the protoss.

and i dont care for the zerg. they just look like sc1 zerg anyway.

AOE base defenses! Include it!

Here are some of my ideas.

1.) An aerial base defense (ATG), which is available mid to late game for balance reason. (originally for my UED concept race). Think about it, static floating protoss canon, now jackal, reapers, etc...can't do shit. Viking and Corruptor will be ideal against it. A lot of different strategy and unit raid decision is needed. The building can be mass but easily be countered by ATA units.


2.) AOE base defenses (lorewise base defenses should deal mass damage obviously). This should be a late game building as it is very powerful. I think the zerg needs this one. Major reason why you need battlecruisers, carrier, and mothership. Its about time the big guns makes a constant appearance in pro games. AOE defenses>smaller units. bigger units>AOE defenses. Combination of normal and AOE defenses = all units possible not just mass stalkers etc!

Zerg creep colony level upgrade fits well for this as zerg buildings can evolve. Upgrade the spores by the time you get hive and it will become a huge defensive building that shoots gigantic green balls (like the bugs in starship troopeers) which deal AOE damage. HP of this building is not greatly improve for balance and so that it will still be vulnerable to large units like thors and bcs and mass small units will still be able to handle it 50% of the time. It will not be able to walk. Also it cost supply you need 2 drones and morph them to the targeted sunken or spore hence not massable.


3.) Hardened shield toss canon, siege tank ultralisk battlecruiser will do minor damage. you will actually need small units like marines and zerglings to easily destroy this type of canon. for balance reason make it 1 per pylon field. SO the strategy is to build this in the middle of multiple normal pylons so that marine will have a hard time to attack it. yamato would still blow it in one shot though. ^^

4.) Super base defense. The terran need this. You can only build one. The Ion canon the ultimate terran base defense. You get it after building the fusion core. It has an attack radius and can only be build next to a command center. Will not overlap bunker siege tanks turrets etc. Deal massive damage in a linear pattern killing small units instantly and dealing damage over time. Requires 5 supply depots, after firing 5 supply depots will malfunction and wil be out of service. SO mass those depots well if you can. Good counter is to destroy nearby supply depots so that it will not be activated.


5.) Pylon detonation. All pylons near the nexus explodes and deals damage to surrounding units. Activate it in the nexus. Pros- it will kill your enemies. COns - you require addition pylons.

I like the idea of making new types and mechanics for base defenses it gives a lot of firepower feel.

This idea are never meant to turtle completely as there are counters for it. The idea is to make most type of units useful and add more complex strategy and decision in how you raid or you want to setup base defenses. If you dont know how to counter this base defense or make the perfect base defenses then your done.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Quirel

I guess this is kind of a 'no duh, everyone else has done that' idea, but I was thinking of a new aspect to the Shield Battery.
Shield Shelter:
Creates a protective shield over an area, similar to "Dark Swarm", except it's permanently over an area so long as the building is on-line. The shield selectively hardens against ALL incoming attacks, but drops momentarily to let outgoing attacks through. Once the building's shields are down, it and all of the units within it's barrier may be attacked.
Health: 500 shields, 100 hp.
Yeah, a lot of shields, but it's covering a decent-sized area, so you'd be able to get Zerglings all around it, or hit it with a bunch of Siege Tanks, or simply an EMP.

---

RODTHEGOD was the first person I know of to come up with the idea (posted here) back on '06, so you could say it's done its rounds.

Quote:

---

Also, to give the player something to think about, as soon as the building goes down, it gives off a low-power, wide AoE EMP...

---

Too harmful, this would prevent the idea ever being used.

Quote:

---

Scourge Apiary:
Zerg defensive unit, generating a swarm every 1.5 seconds and storing up to five, without cost. When an enemy air unit comes close enough, a scourge swarm is loosed, dealing 25X3 damage against the air unit.
Health: 125
Cost: Whatever nixes it enough.

---

If you're going for 5 swarms then it'd be better to do 15*5 as opposed to 25*3. Also, what's the range of these?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MattII

RODTHEGOD was the first person I know of to come up with the idea (posted here) back on '06, so you could say it's done its rounds.

---

Ah, RODTHEGOD... haven't seen him in ages, how is the old chap?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MattII

Too harmful, this would prevent the idea ever being used.

---

'Twas late, and I couldn't really think of any other caveat. I was just worried that such a defense would result in people stacking the batteries right next to each other. Anyhow, the intent was that you'd have more incentive to move your troops around after the shields are down, or face losing 50 shields/energy in the units within range.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MattII

If you're going for 5 swarms then it'd be better to do 15*5 as opposed to 25*3. Also, what's the range of these?

---

Five swarms of three Scourge. The Swarms are launched sequentially (although launching them all at once, like interceptors out of a Carrier) would be neat.
Each swarm is supposed to deal 25*3 damage, but that would probably have to be nixed down to 15*3 or 10*3.
Range? Aw, hell, less than a Goliath's, longer than a Marine's.