Some FBI documentation which suggests aliens might be real. News article about it...
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/38/20110411...s-045b8e8.html
Not sure if it's trolling.
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Some FBI documentation which suggests aliens might be real. News article about it...
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/38/20110411...s-045b8e8.html
Not sure if it's trolling.
Who ever doubted there were aliens? I thought the only question was whether or not they've come here .. which wouldn't surprise me.
But, like I said in the other topic, couldn't care less until they do something. That's not a knock on this topic though, it's interesting, it's just I'm not going to worry about thing's that don't effect me.
http://vault.fbi.gov/UFO/UFO%20Part%201%20of%2016/view
Here's the official thing.
Don't know what to think of it. I mean, it's from an official source but why isn't the media talking more about it? Plus, it's only talking about sighing, no actual proof of anything.
you didn't know? they've been hopping the boarder here in california for years!
*sighs*Quote:
Originally Posted by mariabastet
These kids will never learn...
Yes they are. Why believe otherwise?
What is it he doesn't understand?Quote:
Originally Posted by Arkalis
Aliens? Yes.
Visiting Earth? No.
http://sportscasm.com/wp-content/upl...d-facepalm.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by mariabastet
I second it, and I hope Tychus's comment was a jokeQuote:
Originally Posted by Hellgrinder
Wasn't a joke. You said he would never learn. Other than your nationality and sensitivity towards the subject, I was wondering what you were going on about. Yes, it was an awful joke, yes it was stupid and pointless, but that's it.
The above post is likely a joke. Lighten up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arkalis
http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/1328...s-ufo-hoax.htm
I'm sure aliens exist somewhere, but I highly doubt they've ever visited this planet.
The general sane consensus is that with an estimated 400 billion stars in this galaxy alone, at least half of them probably have planets. With at least 1/10th of those planets them having liquid water in substantial quantities, there could easily be up to 20 billion planets with life on them. Its more likely only 1/10th of those do, though, so 2 billion. And chances are from that, maybe 100 million with sentient life. Given how close we've come to nuclear war, I'd say a safe estimate of the number of sentient species who survive their nuclear age and could achieve space travel in this galaxy alone is 20 million. Which is damn impressive and completely reasonable.
The question of whether efficient, short-term space travel between one star and the next is even possible, however, is an entirely different question based on our own current and limited understanding of the universe and physics.
Not regarding that many of its variables are totally arbitrary and that the margin of error is beyond reasonable, most estimates of the Drake equation are too high IMO. Modern estimates are much lower than Drake's. A planet would need a large gas giant in Jupiter's position to fling asteroids away from our area of space. It would also need the disproportionately large moon that Earth has, whose tidal forces played a role in the evolution of life i.e. stabilizing Earth's axis wobble to prevent sharp climate changes, and perhaps even in activating the hydrothermal vents where life might have began. There's even a theory that its tidal forces are required to pull apart the double helix strands in the early DNA that formed in the primordial soup. Also, the Drake equation takes no account of the age of the galaxy. Perhaps millions of civilizations did arise, but it also takes billions of years for life to arise, and at different points in time too, so this window is far smaller than most people realize. In our galaxy, I'd be happy if right now, there were, say, 500 intelligent civilizations.
That's not entirely true either. Life could arise on an Earth-sized moon orbiting a Jupiter-sized gas giant that orbits its star in the area where Earth is, like in the Mu Arae system (There's a gas giant that fits that description there. Not sure of any moons though). Or, it could arise on a Europa-like moon.
Or, it could arise in a Titan-like environment, as recent studies have shown that there's less hydrogen on Titan's surface than there should be, suggesting that something is consuming it. According to models of what life on Titan would be like, using hydrogen where we use oxygen, acetylene in place of glucose, and methane in place of water. Throw in the fact that the amount of missing hydrogen fits the predictions for what it would be if there was life on Titan, and you've got evidence for life there, suggesting that you don't need an Earth-like environment to have life.
Well I did in fact say I was talking about planets, not moons, but the point is, life is more likely to arise on a planet/moon that has significant tidal forces acting on it. Titan has Saturn, so it's got that going for it, but I'm sure it has a few things against it. Like the temperature. Or lack of magnetic field. In any case, I don't think some missing hydrogen is very good evidence for life. Need moar info. :PQuote:
Originally Posted by Hellgrinder
Well, at that distance from the sun, a magnetic field wouldn't really be that necessary to hold on to an atmosphere. At Earth's distance from the sun, yes. But the solar wind out at Saturn is so weak that Titan doesn't need one. Either that, or it's protected by Saturn's magnetic field.
*sigh*Quote:
Originally Posted by DemolitionSquid
Posts like these are why telling children everyone's opinion matters is quite detrimental. Glad the proceeding posts came before I saw it. I'd hate to counter this.
I was pretty sure you had no meaning behind your words. Might I suggest better word choice next time?Quote:
Originally Posted by Arkalis
I really need to start getting more specific. I keep forgetting everyone is a retard. The 20 million I started includes all the factors Gradius suggested: Goldilocks zone, gas giant asteroid blockers, civilizations rise and fall over time relative to estimated age of universe and time-displacement expansion. Gradius estimate of only 500 sentient non-radioactive species at any one time in the galaxy is still laughably low. Life on earth constantly proves how resilient and varied it truly is. To suggest that life on other planets would somehow be weaker or more stupid than life here is disgustingly arrogant. All those other species in Star Trek/Star Wars have good reason to hate humans in their respective fictional universes: we'll always find a way to be racist first.
I'd like to see where you got your numbers from, and Star Trek doesn't count.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drake_equation
Search for current estimates. Not taking a civilization's ability to communicate with us into account, for intelligent civilizations total there are probably 200 with expected parameters, 2 million with extremely optimistic parameters, and basically none in this galaxy with pessimistic parameters.
I'm using the original Drake Equation, but I see no reason why it has been altered at all. We've gotten literally no more relevant data since its inception. We've found extrasolar planets, many gas giants, implyingthat gas giants are common and can protect smaller life sustaining planets, which is a point for me. We've found planets in the Goldilocks zone, but don't yet have the technology to accurately scan them for life or water, so its irrelevant until that point. Also, why would their ability to communicate with us or not matter? Everyone knows that it takes forever for our primitive radio waves to reach from one star to the other, and that the decay rate in signal strength is pretty harsh over a hundred light years. There's the fact sentient civilizations existing right now could range in technology from bronze age to Dyson Sphere builders, and that technological progress doesn't have to follow the same path as it did here on earth, nor even the same form (I predict a couple steam punk space fearing civilizations). Add to all this the possibility of non-carbon based life, and life even existing in non-water environments (which exists even on earth) and your 200 sapient civilizations is a ridiculously low estimate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gradius
I may be a bit optimistic at 20 million, but any less than 10 million is unbelievable to me. Until we find life elsewhere, everything is obviously conjecture, but we know nearly nothing about our universe and frankly, I'd rather highball my estimates.
Gradius, DemolitionSquid's knowledge of the universe is far too comprehensive for us mere college graduates to comprehend. We cannot hold our own in a conversation with him. We must swiftly retreat before we make complete asses of ourselves.
And add to this the probability of life existing outside the dimensions that WE can observe (estimates at around 11 currently?) - I'd say you're still low-balling it... I'm going to go with 75 BAZJILLION sentient species.Quote:
Originally Posted by DemolitionSquid
String theory says 10, the membrane theory says 11, the Function Space Theory, however, says infinite.
So, depends on the theory. I've heard one of Stephen Hawkings latest theories say that, due to the amount of unknown matter ("dark matter"/"blue matter") which gives galaxies their gravity, there has to be 17-30 dimensions. Of course, this theory comes from two to three years ago when the recording of two galaxies colliding with a new form of filtering (which shows matter that we cannot see) showed blue and black auras around them. Hasn't had enough time to be analyzed to debated. But, like most of his theories, they eventually become the dominant theory with sometime :D
-- Anyone watch the show, The X-Files. I used to watch that show. Haven't seen it in years. This made me want to start watching it again :D
A bot with a sense of wonder . . .
Skynet must have already launched.
Interesting video...yet I still don't believe any of it. These claims are all just hoaxes or military experiments in my opinion. A few can be debunked already:Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterSlayer
- Norway Spiral: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_No...spiral_anomaly
- Aztec UFO (FBI documents referring to recovered aliens): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aztec,_...o_UFO_incident
- Jerusalem UFO over dome: http://blogs.howstuffworks.com/2011/...nuary-28-2011/
People love to spread hoaxes.
Also, there's something else which could be accounting for any anomalies in the sky, scientifically. Google HAARP (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Fr...search_Program).