Protoss command structure?
hello!
the other day i was playing In Uter Darkness and i start wondering seeing all that Protoss toguether... ¿what was the command chain?
i know that the Dark Templar had a Matriach and the next in the line were the Prelates (Zeratul/Mohandar)
Now the Hierarch is the maximun leader of the protoss (i think...).
and before the lost of Aiur they have the Conclave and Judicator as the leaders.
we know that Artanis was the Executor in episode 3, but he was ¿"promoted"? to Preator in BW.
but in game the Executor gives orders to the Preator.
Then we have Urun, who is an "Admiral"... (human ranks in Protoss command?... damn)
we know thanks to the DT saga that the protoss meet in a "council" to debate, but in battle there must be somekind of command chain.
what are your toughts about protoss command structure? how does it work?
Re: Protoss command structure?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SpikeVorador
hello!
the other day i was playing In Uter Darkness and i start wondering seeing all that Protoss toguether... ¿what was the command chain?
i know that the Dark Templar had a Matriach and the next in the line were the Prelates (Zeratul/Mohandar)
Now the Hierarch is the maximun leader of the protoss (i think...).
and before the lost of Aiur they have the Conclave and Judicator as the leaders.
we know that Artanis was the Executor in episode 3, but he was ¿"promoted"? to Preator in BW.
but in game the Executor gives orders to the Preator.
Then we have Urun, who is an "Admiral"... (human ranks in Protoss command?... damn)
we know thanks to the DT saga that the protoss meet in a "council" to debate, but in battle there must be somekind of command chain.
what are your toughts about protoss command structure? how does it work?
The protoss hierarchy has gone through numerous changes due to the loss of Aiur.
For Aiur protoss, the hierarchy seems to have been:
Conclave
Judicator Assembly
Ara Tribe
Judicator Caste
Templar Caste
High Executor (usually just called executor)
Other executors
Praetors
For the Dark Templar, it seems to have been much looser, with the varying clans having little affiliation with each other.
Matriarch
Dark Prelate (equivalent to Praetor)
When the protoss of Aiur arrived on Shakuras, they created an "ad hoc" government, where Raszagal seemed to hold the highest authority as the "host" and Zeratul held more rank than Artanis due to his greater experience. (This couldn't have made things easy for the Khalai!) Aldaris, while smart enough to be a decent military commander, stayed home, in part due to his civilian status, but also to find out why Raszagal was so messed up.
The current leadership structure is civilian. I'll detail that part first, then the military part. Note that many of the "civilian" leaders have military rank as well.
Civilian leadership
Hierarch Artanis (Akilae Tribe, seems to be the leader, but this isn't particularly clear; it could be the six hierarchs hold "equal" rank)
Other hierarchs, and I'm not sure if any but Artanis are ever called "Hierarch". Of these, Mohandar seems to be a prelate (as he holds the position that Zeratul used to hold and wants to give up power to Zeratul)* and Urun is probably an executor, but for some reason is called "admiral" instead.
Note that, unlike in the Brood War, there is only one Nerazim in this council, and the highest-ranking member is a Khalai. Open-minded, but still...
Military leadership
High Executor Selendis
Probably other executors, then below her praetors and prelates. (The Khalai and Dark Templar fight alongside each other.)
Just to make things confusing:
Azimar, sometimes called praetor and sometimes called prelate.
In his first appearance, Azimar was called a praetor and fought in a combined force (eg he had stalkers along with Khalai protoss serving him).
But in his second appearance, Azimar was called a prelate and fought exclusively alongside Dark Templar... from varying clans, as their differing armors made quite clear.
*When Raszagal died and gave her "power" to Zeratul, it seems she either gave him leadership of the Lenassa clan (they're both dressed as Lenassa, anyway) or gave him the position of "Patriarch". If so, Zeratul might regain this position, while leaving Mohandar the position of "dark prelate of the Boros". But as the only Nerazim in the hierarchy, Mohandar's current position is perhaps more similar to Raszagal's.
Re: Protoss command structure?
Most likely, the High Executor is in command of the whole millitary, an Admiral commands a large fleet, a Praetor commands an army, and both answer to Executors, who answer to the High Executor. But that's just my opinion. :)
Re: Protoss command structure?
Here's my two cents for the Protoss' command structure:
Conclave:
They were originally the religious authority and governmental body for all Protoss on Aiur. They had no direct influence over Protoss military though a representative would accompany the Executor to provide counsel and liaise with the Conclave. Unofficially, this representative would also function as a spy by reporting everything back to the Conclave.
Executor:
When referring to the player/Artanis/Selendis, Blizzard has always referred to us/them as the Executor, which would suggest that there is only one at a given time. How the individual is elected, is uncertain (perhaps by the Conclave?).
In terms of function, I've noticed that the Executor (or Executors if there are more than one) is always in charge of a fleet. This suggests to me that the Executor commands the Protoss' mobile forces; operating wherever the current frontline is.
Praetor:
While the Executor commands the Protoss' mobile forces, Praetors command static positions/bases and lead smaller teams. While technically of lower rank than the Executor, Praetors who command specific positions seem to operate independently of the Executor, the latter providing support should the Praetor's territory become a focal point (e.g. In New Antioch, Fenix was overall in charge of the battle while the Executor provided strategic/tactical support).
Prelate:
They can be seen as the Dark Templar equivalent of Praetors, leading small warbands.
Matriarch:
I think the Matriarch being the sole representative of the entire Dark Templar community was a role unique to Raszagal; likely owing to her seniority amongst all Dark Templars. This makes sense given the importance Dark Templars place on individuality.
Hierarch:
They are sort of a replacement for the Conclave; except more ethnically diverse with representatives from all major Protoss groups. Like the Conclave before them, the Hierarchy act as a council when serving the role of governmental body for the Protoss. However, unlike the Conclave, the Hierarchy does not act as the undisputed religious authority.
TLDR:
The Conclave act as a cross between parliament and Holy See with limited military influence. They were replaced by the Hierarchy who are less religious and are ethnically diverse. The Executor leads the Protoss' mobile forces while Praetors hold fixed territories and command smaller groups. Prelates have a similar function to Praetors but are unique to Dark Templars.
Re: Protoss command structure?
While Blizzard may have intended there to be only one executor at first twelve years ago, that's fallen behind the lore.
Several lore sources between SCI and SCII made it clear there have been multiple executors at the same time. SCII even acknowledges this to an extent by calling Selendis the High Executor.
Re: Protoss command structure?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SpikeVorador
hello!
Then we have Urun, who is an "Admiral"... (human ranks in Protoss command?... damn)
Well, Praetor, Prelate, Hierarch and Matriarch (and Templar, Archon and Dragoon as well for that matter) are all Human ranks too, just obscurely historical ones ("Praetor" is an ancient Roman title that had both military and civilian applications, "Prelate" is a term for a high ranking member of the clergy e.t.c).
All Protoss ranks though always have an ancient and/or religious connotation to reflect the fact that their society is very ancient and highly traditionalistic (they all are best viewed however as approximate English translations of the actual rank names, since Protoss don't really speak English). So Admiral IS an oddity.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kimera757
While Blizzard may have intended there to be only one executor at first twelve years ago, that's fallen behind the lore.
Several lore sources between SCI and SCII made it clear there have been multiple executors at the same time. SCII even acknowledges this to an extent by calling Selendis the High Executor.
As for what precisely the rank of "Executor" entails (and how many there are), I think its duties changed over time since the Protoss society has undergone major restructuring and upheaval with the fall of Aiur. In the days of the Conclave there was only one Executor whose office was to mediate between the Judicators and the Templar (and he was likely called Executor because he "executed the will of the Conclave"), the schism between which has been steadily growing even before Tassadar's time. So he was as much a diplomat as a military leader. After the Conclave's demise the rank of Executor remained, but the duties changed, becoming more akin to that of an Admiral of a Fleet with the Protoss' acceptance of a much more nomadic way of life (the "reawakening" of the Motherships is another indication of that). So by Artanis' time there appeared multiple Executors whose responsibilities were entirely exploratory and military rather than diplomatic, each in command of his or her own fleet and all answering to the High Executor who retained the diplomatic authority of an Executor of the Conclave era and answered directly to the Hierarch himself (much as the older Executor answered directly to the Conclave).
All that (though being all personal conjecture) seems to me a pretty good explanation of the lore contradictions concerning the number of Executors (I just wish some other retcons could be reasoned out as neatly).
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mr. peasant
TLDR:
The Conclave act as a cross between parliament and Holy See with limited military influence. They were replaced by the Hierarchy who are less religious and are ethnically diverse. The Executor leads the Protoss' mobile forces while Praetors hold fixed territories and command smaller groups. Prelates have a similar function to Praetors but are unique to Dark Templars.
I agree about Praetors (much like Ancient Roman ones, each tied to a Province, that's why Fenix was defending Antioch while the Executor was traipsing around with Aldaris in search of Tassadar) but suspect that Prelate is just the Dark Templar term for the leader of a tribe. They are nomadic, and thus are unlikely to occupy fixed territories or have a fixed distinction between military and civilian authority.
Re: Protoss command structure?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Eligor
As for what precisely the rank of "Executor" entails (and how many there are), I think its duties changed over time since the Protoss society has undergone major restructuring and upheaval with the fall of Aiur. In the days of the Conclave there was only one Executor whose office was to mediate between the Judicators and the Templar (and he was likely called Executor because he "executed the will of the Conclave"), the schism between which has been steadily growing even before Tassadar's time. So he was as much a diplomat as a military leader. After the Conclave's demise the rank of Executor remained, but the duties changed, becoming more akin to that of an Admiral of a Fleet with the Protoss' acceptance of a much more nomadic way of life (the "reawakening" of the Motherships is another indication of that). So by Artanis' time there appeared multiple Executors whose responsibilities were entirely exploratory and military rather than diplomatic, each in command of his or her own fleet and all answering to the High Executor who retained the diplomatic authority of an Executor of the Conclave era and answered directly to the Hierarch himself (much as the older Executor answered directly to the Conclave).
Hmm. I thought Executor was a purely Templar rank, and it was Aldaris who had the task of mediating between the Conclave and the Templar?
Re: Protoss command structure?
Eligor is pretty spot on about executor. Although I'm curious about what sources imply that theres more than one executor at a time. Other than the generic labeling of the Nexus/building portrait as "executor", there was always one selected executor.
SC1/BroodWar
Executor is the highest rank of the Templar. Before the fall of Auir, the executor was appointed by the conclave to carry out their rulings/ will. (the best equivilent i can think of is a single "spectre" in mass effect) An executor is granted authority in matters domestic, diplomatic and military: a supreme commander. In SC1, Tassadar was executor until he went missing, and thus appointed the player (Artanis) as his replacement.
Because that is how the role of executor was described as in SC1, it confuses me when there is then executor and "high executor".
As far as I know, praetor is a templar/ military rank along the lines of lieutenant colonal. Fenix lead the forces on the ground at Antioch while the executor would be a general passing orders onto him and overseeing the battle.
The dark templar rankings don't seem very militaristic though. Matriarch was the leader of the whole tribe while prelate was second in command (in brood war)
Post SC1/Brood War
Heirarch is a title Artanis alone possesses; he is the leader of the Protoss. As such, he is also the figure head of the newly formed protoss council.
Instead of the Protoss being ruled by the Conclave, which was a specific social class/tribe, this new council has a representative of each Tribe. The new Dark Templar Prelate is then essentially the replacement of Matriarch; he leads the Dark Templar in Zeratul's absense and speaks on their behalf in the council.
to FanaticTemplar: You are right in that Executor is a templar, but the conclave was the ruling class. Adun and Tassadar used their authority to play as mediators between the conclave and rest of the protoss, but otherwise they follow the commands of the Conclave; Aldaris was the one who gave you the orders.
Re: Protoss command structure?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
FanaticTemplar
Hmm. I thought Executor was a purely Templar rank, and it was Aldaris who had the task of mediating between the Conclave and the Templar?
Nominally a Templar rank, but he's answering to the Conclave, not a higher ranked Templar (which perhaps also proves that it was the highest Templar rank before Artanis' time). Aldaris seems to be more of a "mouth piece" for the Conclave, not the one who directly commands the troops to do their job (although he certainly has some military authority as well, if only by the virtue of his high rank). Mr. Peasant's comparison of the Conclave to the Holy See is a good one. Thinking of Aldaris as a Cardinal (elected as an emissary from the Pope) relaying orders to the supreme General of an Army (all happening in a highly religious society where the Church holds administrative power) would make for exactly the same relationship of power and rank.
In a way they both mediate between the castes, but it's the Executor who directly answers for the troops' compliance with orders, so his role is more critical than Aldaris'.
Re: Protoss command structure?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jconant
Eligor is pretty spot on about executor. Although I'm curious about what sources imply that theres more than one executor at a time. Other than the generic labeling of the Nexus/building portrait as "executor", there was always one selected executor.
We had a random executor Amur in Twilight, random executor in charge of a carrier on the StarCraft I site (hold your mouse button over the carrier portrait; that's been there since 1998) and by StarCraft II's release we have a high executor.
There's also some barely canon sources having other executors (Shadow of the Xel'Naga and Insurrection) if anyone wants to go down that scary route.)
It's not clear sine Blizzard has given us little information about it, but I'm pretty sure there's likely to be more than one executor at any given time. Otherwise a character like Amur (an executor between Brood War and StarCraft II) don't really make sense. Probably why Selendis is suddenly being called high executor.
Quote:
The dark templar rankings don't seem very militaristic though. Matriarch was the leader of the whole tribe while prelate was second in command (in brood war)
While Zeratul may have been the second-in-command, he's not the only prelate.
Re: Protoss command structure?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Eligor
Well, Praetor, Prelate, Hierarch and Matriarch (and Templar, Archon and Dragoon as well for that matter) are all Human ranks too, just obscurely historical ones ("Praetor" is an ancient Roman title that had both military and civilian applications, "Prelate" is a term for a high ranking member of the clergy e.t.c).
All Protoss ranks though always have an ancient and/or religious connotation to reflect the fact that their society is very ancient and highly traditionalistic (they all are best viewed however as approximate English translations of the actual rank names, since Protoss don't really speak English). So Admiral IS an oddity. .
wow, i didnt know all that O.o
personally i dont like the idea of having more than 1 executor at the time, i think is better and more easy to have 1 executor and then some "admirals" for the fleets and some "preators" for the ground army. O.o
Re: Protoss command structure?
On the note of "admiral", the term "commander" has been used twice to describe lower-ranking protoss commanders (in the Mothership and Colossus short stories).
