One Account Per Real ID = No Smurfing

They said that in Bnet 2.0 you will only have the ability to use one account that is linked to your REAL ID. This completely ruins the ability for people to learn new races or do numerous other instances where a new name is useful. Personally, I thought the fixes to the AMM and the creation of ELL (Estimated Level) in WC3 was the main way they combated smurfing. They way ELL worked, even if you created a new account, your ELL would be EXTREMELY high after winning 4 or so games in a row. This honestly really worked against smurfing in a way. Allowed players to test new races, strategies, etc. but also allowed the player to play against their own skill range.

Ugh, Bnet 2.0 is really taking a step backwards =/

I'm sure you can play unrated if ranking means that much to you.

I'd like to be able to create multiple IDs, but any new ID you make start at a higher ELL, so you don't play noobs (I don't want to play noobs anyway, that's not why I make new IDs).

Its entirely possible they may also rank you by race.

This feature is fine with me - I've got no problem with it. Also, you guys should be more open-minded - half the stuff being complained about can be solved programatically.

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Originally Posted by DemolitionSquid

Its entirely possible they may also rank you by race.

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Yes, I think that would be nice as well - although I'm gonna have to find out exactly how their ranking/ELL system works.

If you play someone with a really high ELL, but not a very high rank, how far do you move in RANKING?

If the AMM was *only* about matching people as closely in skill as possible, then this would be no problem at all (and having multiple IDs, that all start at your highest achieved ELL, would not be a problem). Same with ELL by race, also not a problem (and I want this too, because off-racing without ruining your ranking is good if you are trying to climb the ladder).

Anyway, it is problematic - let's say I'm ranked 10th on the ladder, with a very high ELL (as protoss), what happens if I play a game as zerg with a really low ELL (because I can't play them at all, for instance)? Do I drop a shitload of spots in the ranking? Do I have a seperate ranking with my zerg?
What if I am a race picker (playing PvT PvZ TvP PvR)?

One ELL per race might not be that good the more I think about it (I've suggested it multiple times in the past, so I WANT it to work somehow). I think the best thing might be to allow each Real ID to create maybe 3-5 usernames, and have any new username start at your highest ELL? (but you shouldn't be able to start a new account until you have reached a certain ELL, to avoid people from creating 5 usernames right away and using those to bash)

Anyway, before they say exactly how their ladder will work I guess it's hard to speculate.

I like it.

As Trace said, there's always custom games for anyone who wants to practice with a new race, or practice some new strategy. This isn't combating smurfing... this is completely destroying it. I think that's a pretty noble goal.

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Originally Posted by pure.Wasted

I like it.

As Trace said, there's always custom games for anyone who wants to practice with a new race, or practice some new strategy. This isn't combating smurfing... this is completely destroying it. I think that's a pretty noble goal.

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Actually, no it's not :) (it does make it harder tho!)

A good player can still:
1) lose 50 games in a row and noob bash that way.

2) How will they stop players that really don't belong in the Practice League from joining there :S? I think it's a great idea to have it, I'm just worried about how they will stop that from happening (like, when it's released, any SC or WC3 player that joins the practice league is gonna be stomping everyone HARD).

Oh and I respectfully disagree about custom games - I think they should think of a way to allow you to ladder with multiple races without affecting your main ranking. Afterall, while the AMM is a ladder, it is also the de facto way of playing the game. Trying to play a custom game is going to be very, very painful comparatively:

- Leavers.
- People who don't want to play your race.
- People who are way worse/better than you.

A way to play fun/even games even when you just wanna mess around with your worst race should be implemented. So far I think my above idea of 1 Real ID -> 3-5 usernames (but any new username starts at a higher than 0 ELL, so you can't noob bash, and you can't make a new ID until you are higher than X ELL) is best.

We will see unranked games for sure. Nothing too hard to counter.

I think that more than one account should be allowed (3, for example), for the case when more than 1 player uses the same computer. You don't need to buy more than one license of a program if only one instance is going to be running. To keep things fair, only one of those instances should be allowed to log at a time.

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Originally Posted by FrozenArbiter

Actually, no it's not :) (it does make it harder tho!)

A good player can still:
1) lose 50 games in a row and noob bash that way.

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You're right, of course -- the big problem here being that if the player is so good that this is worthwhile for him (as in, he's so sure he'll win all those games against level 1s that it's worth taking the time to DC from the others), he won't have an opportunity to show off that goodness in his stats. Unless, of course, he's prepared to shell out another $50 for the game to get another account, and then another $40 for the expansion, and then another $40 for the second expansion. And I just can't imagine someone who's genuinely good at the game not wanting to challenge themselves and have a real acc.

So this progressively becomes such an expensive hobby that... well... I doubt we'll see it in any but the extreme cases. And the few times it happens are no different than what you bring up in 2) -- there will also be cases of SC/WC3 players having a distinct edge even on day 1. It's unavoidable, but the damage done will become less and less significant as play goes on.

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2) How will they stop players that really don't belong in the Practice League from joining there :S? I think it's a great idea to have it, I'm just worried about how they will stop that from happening (like, when it's released, any SC or WC3 player that joins the practice league is gonna be stomping everyone HARD).

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Simple solution: don't start the leagues on day 1. Start them on day 1 of month 2, or somesuch. By then stats will be sufficiently set in stone that obviously good players won't be up against obviously bad ones. And for those that aren't obviously good but still have an edge due to familiarity... well, I doubt that'll be enough. Of the newbies I'm sure we'll see lots of players with genuine potential (who will later compete in Silver and Gold), and they will overtake those that get by on familiarity alone pretty swiftly, I imagine.

Are you able to join any league you want? To me it sounded like you are automatically assigned a league depending on your skill level.

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Originally Posted by Hav0x

Are you able to join any league you want? To me it sounded like you are automatically assigned a league depending on your skill level.

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You're automatically assigned a league after a few games. If you become best in this league, you can advance into the next league.

One thing I'd like to see, is the ability to play on BNet without having to show all your friends that you're online. Have a "Show As Offline" option! Most times you'd want to be able to talk and play with your friends, but sometimes it's more relaxing to just play alone without being talked to.

And I'd support some more account for friends or kids that wanna try etc.

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Originally Posted by Dauntless

One thing I'd like to see, is the ability to play on BNet without having to show all your friends that you're online. Have a "Show As Offline" option! Most times you'd want to be able to talk and play with your friends, but sometimes it's more relaxing to just play alone without being talked to.

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This is a must. Absolutely essential. Good thinking Daunt. :D

Step 1: Create a custom game "1v1 Noobs Only Letting a friend try"
step 2: Wait, check stats of people who join
Step 3: let them try

Remember right now all we have is ICCUP for starcraft where you join custom games.


I'm sure they'll have a appear offline option, as well as options to not let certain people know if your on....they have privacy in mind already with the REAL id only being known to certain people..just seems like a logical design choice.

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Originally Posted by pure.Wasted

I like it.

As Trace said, there's always custom games for anyone who wants to practice with a new race, or practice some new strategy. This isn't combating smurfing... this is completely destroying it. I think that's a pretty noble goal.

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No one in WC3 plays custom games to practice a race. If you wanted to try a new race, you'd probably make a new account and play via the AMM. I repeat, no one would ever use custom games to practice a new race, it wasn't worth your while. Because AMM has ranking, ELL, and more competitive players. Much of which custom games do not offer.

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One thing I'd like to see, is the ability to play on BNet without having to show all your friends that you're online. Have a "Show As Offline" option! Most times you'd want to be able to talk and play with your friends, but sometimes it's more relaxing to just play alone without being talked to.

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They'll probably have DND and AFK mode like they do in WoW.

it might not be possible to be a race-specific matchup player unless they actually implement it. I know in war3 you just picked your race, could thumb down up to 3 maps on the list, and then said go and it found your opponent.

I agree with FrozenAribiter about having a couple of accounts attached to a Real ID. Roughly 3-4 accounts, and after you used them all up, you can vouch to have one deleted to make room for another. Keeps the smurfing under control as well as pleases people who like to use multiple accounts. I for one would use at least 3 different accounts playing on wc3. One account was my RT account, the other was AT, and lastly one was my solo.

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Originally Posted by Nottoway

No one in WC3 plays custom games to practice a race. If you wanted to try a new race, you'd probably make a new account and play via the AMM. I repeat, no one would ever use custom games to practice a new race, it wasn't worth your while. Because AMM has ranking, ELL, and more competitive players. Much of which custom games do not offer.

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Yikes. Sounds like this would be a huge problem if we were talking about WC3.

We're not. Custom melee games will be popular for this exact reason -- that you won't have an alternative for practice games. (there's other reasons they'll be more popular, including DOTA not filling up the entire screen, etc, but that's beside the point)

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Originally Posted by pure.Wasted

Yikes. Sounds like this would be a huge problem if we were talking about WC3.

We're not. Custom melee games will be popular for this exact reason -- that you won't have an alternative for practice games. (there's other reasons they'll be more popular, including DOTA not filling up the entire screen, etc, but that's beside the point)

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That would work if we were talking about SC 1.5. But we are talking about SC2.

After people playing WC3 and SC1, there will be a divide. But the thing is, the majority of people will play AMM only. Because AMM is a very easy service to use and allows players to test their skill in a much more speedy process. Custom games take too long and opting to play one just to try new races is and will be a pain. You're trying to justify this change by putting so much faith into custom games when in reality custom games will become pointless in the end once the majority of SC1 players see the fluidity of the AMM system.

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Originally Posted by Nottoway

That would work if we were talking about SC 1.5. But we are talking about SC2.

After people playing WC3 and SC1, there will be a divide. But the thing is, the majority of people will play AMM only. Because AMM is a very easy service to use and allows players to test their skill in a much more speedy process. Custom games take too long and opting to play one just to try new races is and will be a pain. You're trying to justify this change by putting so much faith into custom games when in reality custom games will become pointless in the end once the majority of SC1 players see the fluidity of the AMM system.

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The only time when this issue has any relevance whatsoever is with the really good players. The ones that are so good, they don't want to screw up their stats (and get thrown into a worse league) by practicing weird strats and trying random things out. Now, for them, your argument goes out the window because they know exactly what they want, so they'll be making their practice matches outside of AMM no matter how much less convenient it is.

As for the rest of the community? Who cares, really? You shouldn't be experimenting with weird strats until you're in Gold League; until then, you should be... trying to get into Gold League. I don't see why the rec of any average/below-average players should matter -- and this is coming from someone who'll likely fall somewhere in that range. So they get a loss because they tried something new; well, for them, they're still learning the game, so a loss is a loss.

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Originally Posted by pure.Wasted

The only time when this issue has any relevance whatsoever is with the really good players. The ones that are so good, they don't want to screw up their stats (and get thrown into a worse league) by practicing weird strats and trying random things out. Now, for them, your argument goes out the window because they know exactly what they want, so they'll be making their practice matches outside of AMM no matter how much less convenient it is.

As for the rest of the community? Who cares, really? You shouldn't be experimenting with weird strats until you're in Gold League; until then, you should be... trying to get into Gold League. I don't see why the rec of any average/below-average players should matter -- and this is coming from someone who'll likely fall somewhere in that range. So they get a loss because they tried something new; well, for them, they're still learning the game, so a loss is a loss.

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But you're neglecting a large branch of players. You mentioned the good players and the the average/below average players. There is a very high amount of above average players and that will honestly make up the largest portion of the competitive population on Bnet. These are the people that aren't going to play in money tournaments or w/e, but they will occupy a large niche of the ladder. With that said, I doubt that these players will opt to have custom games account for their testing of new races/strategies/etc. I understand what you're saying, but I think there is a larger concern of this system that you are overlooking when it comes to the competitive population.

Don't get me wrong, a loss from trying a new strategy for a beginner isn't going to matter. They are new and a loss is a loss. But for some people people (above average) records do matter, and records matter a ton when it comes to rank on the ladder.

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Originally Posted by SuperKiller

it might not be possible to be a race-specific matchup player unless they actually implement it. I know in war3 you just picked your race, could thumb down up to 3 maps on the list, and then said go and it found your opponent.

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Yeah, I'm hopeful they might add the option to pick matchups tho, since it doesn't hurt anyone.

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Originally Posted by FrozenArbiter

Yeah, I'm hopeful they might add the option to pick matchups tho, since it doesn't hurt anyone.

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I know one thing that hurts though, AMM speed. Anyone can tell you that once you get high level, search times get longer. Because honestly, you have to get lucky enough to find someone in the higher end of the ladder that is comparable to your skill. Narrowing the search field beyond 3 certain maps down, to "vs X race only" can make things take even longer.

EDIT: Not saying it cannot be an option, just saying the consequences it could result in.

I just wanted to point out that the only reason we dont have lots of custom games on battle.net for war3 practice is because those people are playing on GGC and hate the dota spam.

Which we now finally have a filter for.

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Originally Posted by Islandsnake

I just wanted to point out that the only reason we dont have lots of custom games on battle.net for war3 practice is because those people are playing on GGC and hate the dota spam.

Which we now finally have a filter for.

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That is not true. I was playing WC3 ever since the release date of WC3:RoC and custom games have NEVER been a large way for players to play competitively. Even when DOTA was in its infancy and becoming somewhat popular and plaguing the custom game list, they were never a form to play other people.

The only time custom games were used is when hanging in a lobby is when people start talking shit/talking about strategy/etc. and then a challenge is sent out for a private 1v1 with obs. People then join and play. 99% of the time if you'd join a 1v1/2v2/3v3 in a custom game list, the players were complete noobs.

EDIT: I must point out that thanks to the lobby system being removed, that process will be gone :) Awesome

What? are we playing the same game here, even now I play some 1v1s custom from time to time.

Granted the ratio of custom games to melee games are pretty one-sided but there used to be a decent amount. Not like ICCUP or anything ofc.


With not being able to make a new smurf, there should be even more custom melee games.

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Originally Posted by Nottoway

I know one thing that hurts though, AMM speed. Anyone can tell you that once you get high level, search times get longer. Because honestly, you have to get lucky enough to find someone in the higher end of the ladder that is comparable to your skill. Narrowing the search field beyond 3 certain maps down, to "vs X race only" can make things take even longer.

EDIT: Not saying it cannot be an option, just saying the consequences it could result in.

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Nono, you shouldn't be able to choose what race you want play AGAINST. You should be able to pick like...

If enemy is Zerg, I play Protoss.
If enemy is Terran, I play Protoss.
If enemy is Protoss, I play Terran.
If enemy is Random, I play Protoss.

(this is how I played for a long time)

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Originally Posted by Islandsnake

What? are we playing the same game here, even now I play some 1v1s custom from time to time.

Granted the ratio of custom games to melee games are pretty one-sided but there used to be a decent amount. Not like ICCUP or anything ofc.


With not being able to make a new smurf, there should be even more custom melee games.

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Yes, because you'll force the people who previously enjoyed playing their secondary races on AMM to settle for an inferior alternative (yes, inferior), where you'll have to rely on pure lucky to get an even match.

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Originally Posted by FrozenArbiter

Nono, you shouldn't be able to choose what race you want play AGAINST. You should be able to pick like...

If enemy is Zerg, I play Protoss.
If enemy is Terran, I play Protoss.
If enemy is Protoss, I play Terran.
If enemy is Random, I play Protoss.

(this is how I played for a long time)

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I dont agree with this at all.

Are you saying that if you search ladder as protoss and you get a protoss it should switch your race to terran?

In a Ladder system, a real one you don't know who your facing until the loading screen.

In the AMM setup, you pick what races YOU want to play as, as does everyone else (most will just set one race). Battle.net sets your race based on what your opponents has his set as (you'll find out what matchup you play during loading screen).

Strange I dont like that, I prefer the war3 ladder style.

You pick your "race" and you search ladder.

That way you dont get to pick and chose your weakness and strength and you need to know your matchups.

Its like being able to put a bandaid on your weakest matchup.


What RTS's use that system? just curious


In clan wars and stuff I can see setting up the matches so your strengths are displayed, though even then I prefer a winners league format where you dont know who your going to face.

I feel like picking your race vs other races is like playing random but picking the races you dont want to play. In a ladder system your clawing your way up to the top, and if you pick a race to play as then you should be forced with the chance to play against everyone. For instance a rank 1 player that played protoss could of NEVER once had to face a terran as a protoss..I dont see that as fair.

Geez I wish I coulda picked to play Nightelf vs Nightelf everytime haha

How does that system work past just yourself?

You said:
If enemy is Zerg, I play Protoss.
If enemy is Terran, I play Protoss.
If enemy is Protoss, I play Terran.
If enemy is Random, I play Protoss.

Doesn't that complicate things beyond just the one person? Would this only be a solo thing? If not, that would make 2v2/3v3 extremely hectic in regard to how matches are determined.

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If enemy is Zerg, I play Protoss.
If enemy is Terran, I play Protoss.
If enemy is Protoss, I play Terran.
If enemy is Random, I play Protoss.

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This brings up a point. Let's say they implement this. And let's say your opponent has this setup:

If enemy is Zerg, I play Terran.
If enemy is Terran, I play Terran.
If enemy is Protoss, I play Protoss.
If enemy is Random, I play Zerg.

What race do you get? He picked Terran, so you pick Protoss. But then, his rules aren't satisfied, so he is switched to Protoss. Then it switches you to Terran. So it switches him to Terran. So...

That is why this system doesn't get implemented. If you want to do things like that, where you switch races right before the battle starts, fine. But it shouldn't be coded into the system.

If your laddering you shoulnd't be able to change your race "at the last second" once you see there race it should be too late.


Having a rank 1 Protoss that has never once played against a Zerg is pretty stupid.

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Originally Posted by FrozenArbiter

Nono, you shouldn't be able to choose what race you want play AGAINST. You should be able to pick like...

If enemy is Zerg, I play Protoss.
If enemy is Terran, I play Protoss.
If enemy is Protoss, I play Terran.
If enemy is Random, I play Protoss.

(this is how I played for a long time)

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This is obviously impossible, because your opponent might not choose a race at all, but pick settings as well. So then neither of you will have an actual race, and very often games will go Random (which is not what the players are looking for at all).

The only way to solve that is with preference, ie. take your list and add at top, "preference for Terran." But then, say his preference is for Zerg, you end up with you Terran, him Zerg. But you now want to switch to Protoss, and he wants to switch to Protoss. But if he's Protoss, then you want to be Terran.


Nicol beat me to it.

... subject digression...
/fallsover
... does... not.. compute...

As a thousand people have said before: the main issue with this is offracing. And no, playing custom games to learn a new race is not a viable option because that makes the whole ladder system useless. The whole point of a ladder is to help you improve and see how much you've improved.

I think the simple solution is to have a 1v1 rank for each race P, T, Z, R (and only your top rank even appears on your profile, and the race with which you reached that rank). And to reduce noob bashing even further (ie: an A+ player would destroy you anyday with any race), each player has the option to "copy" his current highest rank to all of his races (say once a week/month). That way you can actually assess how strong you are with your offrace by playing against people with whom you're strategically paired (if you play TvZ with your main race, you'll know what to expect when playing ZvT), but just mechanically inferior (because you're offracing obviously).
If that player has a wide gap between his races, he can allow himself to drop down a few leagues to practice against players of his mechanical skill level, but that's unlikely. A gold player will catch on relatively quickly and won't spend very much time in a silver league with his offrace anyways.

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Originally Posted by Hammy

As a thousand people have said before: the main issue with this is offracing. And no, playing custom games to learn a new race is not a viable option because that makes the whole ladder system useless. The whole point of a ladder is to help you improve and see how much you've improved.

I think the simple solution is to have a 1v1 rank for each race P, T, Z, R (and only your top rank even appears on your profile, and the race with which you reached that rank). And to reduce noob bashing even further (ie: an A+ player would destroy you anyday with any race), each player has the option to "copy" his current highest rank to all of his races (say once a week/month). That way you can actually assess how strong you are with your offrace by playing against people with whom you're strategically paired (if you play TvZ with your main race, you'll know what to expect when playing ZvT), but just mechanically inferior (because you're offracing obviously).
If that player has a wide gap between his races, he can allow himself to drop down a few leagues to practice against players of his mechanical skill level, but that's unlikely. A gold player will catch on relatively quickly and won't spend very much time in a silver league with his offrace anyways.

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I don't see how playing unrated is not an option because if you ladder then you should play at the skill you currently are. Its your own fault if you lose because you don't want to do an unrated because then if you win your points don't go up. I don't think blizzard is going to switch it to what you want so you might is well be ready to deal with it when it comes in like 8 months probably longer :P