Re: I just found out why the plot sucks!!!
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Originally Posted by
solidsamurai
Actually, it might be simple to publish crap in book format for some people - it's just that the book won't sell unless you have a Christopher Paolini scenario (the guy who wrote trashy cliche fantasy as a product of his youth and ended up getting big bucks when he hit age 20, maybe because of some major marketing benefactors or something).
Paolini only got published because his parents are con artists; they own a vanity press. I can't say enough about this travesty, so I'll leave it there.
However, I will say that Paolini's ability to write, insomuch as grammar, story structure, and literacy is concerned, outstrips 90 percent of the population.
I'm serious. Having browsed Fanfiction.net and corrected/reviewed college homework and short essays, writing is a rare gift. Rarer than it ought to be.
As for your instance of a video-game writer writing a full novel, Joseph Statten. Writer for the Halo games, does most of the dialog and the story. Wrote "Contact Harvest", one of the franchise novels.
Yeah, you're probably going to say that he only got it published because it's a video game novel (Which are all trash, amiright?) and he's got a horde of fanboys to buy them up. The truth is, Contact Harvest stands up all on its own merits as a novel, and isn't well-regarded in the Halo community because Statten's writing style is so different from Eric Nylund, who wrote the initial Halo novels.
And the Halo novels tend to be fairly good, really. Nylund's writing is a little dry, but enjoyable. And William C. Dietz is... well, William C. Dietz.
Re: I just found out why the plot sucks!!!
Funny that you mention Paolini and fanfiction in the same post. Eragon is the only book of the Inheritance Trilogy I've fully read (and I saw the film...unfortunately...) and it struck me very much as reminiscent of a 'fanfiction style. In other words, a hit on ff.net, but as a published work...well, not exactly my favourite fantasy novel.
And since deviation from the main point of this thread has been started already, I'll go ahead and say that Contact Harvest isn't as good as the works that came before it because of Staten's writing style itself rather than any deviations, how as good as the Covenant side is, the human side seemed to be struggling to find a 'voice' if that makes sense. As for Dietz, personally I think he's been maligned far more than he should be. I'm talking from ff experience here, but I'll say directly that writing a novelization is hard. Very hard. The type of hard where recently, what was two minutes of dialogue took me over an hour to write due to the need to interspace it with narrative and thought. Coupled with novelizing a FPS, and a limited word length, it's surprising that The Flood is as good as it is. Certainly above what I've felt to be a steady decline of quality that began with Ghosts of Onyx.
Having read three of Dietz's novels, The Flood stands in the middle. Heaven's Devils ranks low in both the novels of his I've read and StarCraft novels as a whole for me, while The Gathering Storm is, in a word, excellent.
Re: I just found out why the plot sucks!!!
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because Statten's writing style is so different from Eric Nylund, who wrote the initial Halo novels.
I actually enjoyed Eric Nylund's scientific dwelving into the universe. So that's contrary to the fanboyism. But yeah, halo is still largely vulnerable to fanboyism and thus fiction that risks being largely underpar.
I didn't really enjoy contact harvest as much as a lot of the other sci fi I've read. I mean, it was okay. Maybe I'm being too rough on the book, I don't know. I gotta read more.
Re: I just found out why the plot sucks!!!
I've read several of Dietz's books.
Logos Run: I didn't like it.
Death Day and it's sequel: Pretty good. (The sequel is even better than the first one.)
Contact Harvest: I liked this one. (Halo books in general are pretty cool.) But I thought Dietz wrote another one instead and that one was critically panned.
Heaven's Devils: Awesomesauce!
Re: I just found out why the plot sucks!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hawki
Having read three of Dietz's novels, The Flood stands in the middle. Heaven's Devils ranks low in both the novels of his I've read and StarCraft novels as a whole for me,
So..in your opinion, Heaven's Devils ranks low as an SC novel.....And yet, iirc, you said you actually liked 'Queen of Blades'?:confused::rolleyes:
Re: I just found out why the plot sucks!!!
Despite the lore butchery & crappy writing, Queen of Blades was somewhat fun to read. Can't say the same for HD. :/
Re: I just found out why the plot sucks!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gradius
Despite the lore butchery & crappy writing, Queen of Blades was somewhat fun to read. Can't say the same for HD. :/
'Yeah yeah, I know it's a steaming shit sandwhich, but it tastes pretty good all things considered, so I'll go ahead and finish eating it.'
Btw, what didn't you like about 'HD' besides the fact that there weren't any protoss in it?.......Or have I answered my own quetion?:D
Re: I just found out why the plot sucks!!!
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Originally Posted by
phazonjunkie
Btw, what didn't you like about 'HD' besides the fact that there weren't any protoss in it?.......Or have I answered my own quetion?:D
I just couldn't bring myself to care about the characters, and the pace was sluggish. I, Mengsk was way better.
Also it didn't have any protoss in it. :P
Re: I just found out why the plot sucks!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hawki
Funny that you mention Paolini and fanfiction in the same post. Eragon is the only book of the Inheritance Trilogy I've fully read and it struck me very much as reminiscent of a 'fanfiction style. In other words, a hit on ff.net, but as a published work...well, not exactly my favourite fantasy novel.
Yeah, I guess my point is that it WOULD be a hit on Fanfiction (Although he'd probably have to file it as a Star WarsXLoTR crossover) because he's a better writer than the average Fanfictioneer. About the 80th percentile.
Not God's own gift to Literature by any means, but about the level of Kevin J. Anderson.
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Originally Posted by
Hawki
(and I saw the film...unfortunately...)
My condolences.
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Originally Posted by
Hawki
And since deviation from the main point of this thread has been started already,
Well, the original issue seems to have been resolved, so no reason not to pursue this tangent.
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Originally Posted by
Hawki
I'll go ahead and say that Contact Harvest isn't as good as the works that came before it because of Staten's writing style itself rather than any deviations, how as good as the Covenant side is, the human side seemed to be struggling to find a 'voice' if that makes sense
Tellingly, the Covenant sections are what I remember the most, even after three readings. With the human sections, they were good, but a lot of them were fairly extraneous. Could have been fixed if he didn't use established characters...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hawki
As for Dietz, personally I think he's been maligned far more than he should be. I'm talking from ff experience here, but I'll say directly that writing a novelization is hard. Very hard. The type of hard where recently, what was two minutes of dialogue took me over an hour to write due to the need to interspace it with narrative and thought. Coupled with novelizing a FPS, and a limited word length, it's surprising that The Flood is as good as it is. Certainly above what I've felt to be a steady decline of quality that began with Ghosts of Onyx.
Having read three of Dietz's novels, The Flood stands in the middle. Heaven's Devils ranks low in both the novels of his I've read and StarCraft novels as a whole for me, while The Gathering Storm is, in a word, excellent.
Have yet to crack open "At Empires Edge", even though it's been sitting on the bookshelf since Christmas. Might have gotten a few pages in, but Zahn, Bear, and Niven have conspired to push him off the reading list.
From what I've read of his works, though, and what I've heard others say, he's really not good with characters, is he?
As for the 'steady decline' in the quality of Halo books, I'd say that it's hardly steady. Cole Protocol was a series of missed opportunities, your mileage may vary on Evolutions, but I can't help but feel that Cryptum is on par with the original Nylund novels.
Karen Traviss's entry into the franchise, of course, has the potential to go any which way. Which is what makes it so exciting. XD
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Originally Posted by
Kimera757
I've read several of Dietz's books.
Logos Run: I didn't like it.
Death Day and it's sequel: Pretty good. (The sequel is even better than the first one.)
Contact Harvest: I liked this one. (Halo books in general are pretty cool.) But I thought Dietz wrote another one instead and that one was critically panned.
Heaven's Devils: Awesomesauce!
Logos Run: I've spent many an hour staring at that book in Hastings, wondering... pick it up? Wait for it to pop up at the used book store? Play it safe and stick to Terry Pratchett?
-Death Day: Haven't even heard of it...
-Contact Harvest: Written by Joseph Statten, not Dietz. Dietz wrote The Flood, which was panned by the fans because of its shortcomings.
As a novelization of a game, most of it is skippable. We've played it, and reading about the Master Chief barreling down hallway after hallway just isn't the same. The characters and events that took place, but weren't featured in the game, is the novel's strongest parts. And even then, most of the characters were kinda flat...
-Heaven's Devils: Like all StarCraft books, I approach it cautiously, with a can of beer at the bedside and padding on the far wall.
My precautions are entirely justified, as I had to spackle and repaint the drywall after I read a certain "Shadows of the Xel Naga".
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Originally Posted by
solidsamurai
I actually enjoyed Eric Nylund's scientific dwelving into the universe. So that's contrary to the fanboyism. But yeah, halo is still largely vulnerable to fanboyism and thus fiction that risks being largely underpar.
Not quite sure how fanboyism and scientific-ish approaches to a franchise are exclusive. Care to elaborate?
Re: I just found out why the plot sucks!!!
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Originally Posted by phazonjunkie'
So..in your opinion, Heaven's Devils ranks low as an SC novel.....And yet, iirc, you said you actually liked 'Queen of Blades'
Yeah, pretty much. I guess it's something of a guilty pleasure. Then again, I'm the type of person who has Nova as my second favourite StarCraft novel, has 2001: A Space Odyssey as my second least favourite sci-fi movie and actually considers the film version of Battlefield Earth to be good.:eek:
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Originally Posted by Gradius;
I just could bring myself to care about the characters, and the pace was sluggish. I, Mengsk was way better.
And for the record, that's how I feel about both Heaven's Devils and I, Mengsk as well.
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Originally Posted by Quirel;
Not God's own gift to Literature by any means, but about the level of Kevin J. Anderson.
I actually consider Anderson a bit better in the realm of experience. While I don't need to bring Shadow of the Xel'naga into this, I would say Saga of Seven Suns is better than Inheritance. Characters were less compelling, but the setting felt far less generic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quirel;
From what I've read of his works, though, and what I've heard others say, he's really not good with characters, is he?
As for the 'steady decline' in the quality of Halo books, I'd say that it's hardly steady. Cole Protocol was a series of missed opportunities, your mileage may vary on Evolutions, but I can't help but feel that Cryptum is on par with the original Nylund novels.
Karen Traviss's entry into the franchise, of course, has the potential to go any which way. Which is what makes it so exciting. XD
In experience, only for Heaven's Devils in regards to characters. IMO, The Flood and The Gathering Storm had good characters and development for said characters.
As for the steady decline, I'll come out and say that Cryptum continued said decline for me. As for Traviss, I've had a bit of a mixed experience with her. Her Gears of War novels are okay, but I feel that each has been less good than the last, to the extent where I haven't picked up Anvil Gate yet. City of Pearl was good, but there's four more books in the series I've yet to read.
And yes, I haven't read any of her Star Wars novels despite being a relatively established author for the series. As to why, I refer to my earlier comments on being a sci-fi oddity.:p And, you know, that Mandalorians and clone troopers are OVERRATED.:eek:
