Zerg Buildings, Graphics + Question

I downloaded the high quality version of battle report 2, and caught so many details I couldn't see in the flash version. I was mainly impressed by the Zerg building graphics. When the drones morph into buildings, under the transparent film you can see things moving around. Each building has its own unique structure, and an organic feel. My only gripe with the current build is that basically each building grants you a new unit. Roach Warren, Baneling Nest, Lurker Den, Infestor Pit...Do you guys think this is an issue, or is it balanced? I think some can be incorporated into others. Like how you could research lurker tech at the hydra den and so forth. Perhaps research banelings at the spawning pool?

And for the question, I saw this buliding in the battle report [the green one with tentacles], what is it? I thought it looked really cool, but I have no clue what it is.

http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/9428/picture1ymb.png

It's the Baneling Nest.

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My only gripe with the current build is that basically each building grants you a new unit.

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That's how the Zerg work. They did it in SC1. Zerg buildings that aren't Hatcheries or defensive buildings give you access to some unit(s).

If you like that, then you're gonna love this:

http://www.sc2armory.com/files/screenshots/198.jpg


-Psi

I am with Nicol, this is how the Zerg is meant to work, It's a straight line with many branches rather a tree will multiple paths.

Yeah, but the Hydralisk Den used to upgrade Lurkers as well, whereas now you need to Morph it to a Lurker Den to do the same. Of course it's essentially the same thing in the end, but it looks different.

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Originally Posted by MattII

Yeah, but the Hydralisk Den used to upgrade Lurkers as well, whereas now you need to Morph it to a Lurker Den to do the same. Of course it's essentially the same thing in the end, but it looks different.

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It's what they would have done had they added buildings to Brood War.

And what is that, Psi?

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Originally Posted by PsiWarp

If you like that, then you're gonna love this:

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-Psi

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That is much better than the old one, which is saying something, because the original was among my favourite structure models in the game.

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That is much better than the old one, which is saying something, because the original was among my favourite structure models in the game.

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I don't agree about the old one being my favorite, but I definitely agree that this is a massive improvement.

See? The Zealot wasn't the only thing they were working on.

The Baneling Nest is from the newest set of renders that were released with new screenshots and gameplay video back in the June 22 press event.

http://sclegacy.com/feature/3-events...craft-ii-media

Does anyone else reckon the Evolution Chamber's new model looks a lot worse than the original one (My favourite zerg building before the overhaul :D)?

Also, personally I find that the old Baneling Nest looks much better, it has a more sinister look, and not so.. stylised which like a lot of other Zerg models 'Spore-like' (e.g. Mutalisk, especially its cannon.. eugh).

I LOVE the Baneling nest. I think it's my favorite looking Zerg building right now.

I HATE the Baneling nest, it looks like a walker? Also I think the angle looking down on it makes it look confusing as fook.

I believe they did the buildings for several reasons:

1. when u scouted a toss or terran you could actually know what he was teching for. Then when u scout a zerg you wouldn't know if he got banelings or lurkers.

2. Encourage the deevolution of zerg when they lose a base.

Baneling nest should definatly evolve from the spawning pool. All other Zerg evolution stages work this way. Plus it would be so cool to see those spindly legs rise out of the pool dragging the mass of the building up with it.

The Spawning Pool and Baneling Nest are two separate buildings because they're early game. So losing one won't necessarily mean you lose access to the other. Its an insurance policy for balance.

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Originally Posted by DemolitionSquid

The Spawning Pool and Baneling Nest are two separate buildings because they're early game. So losing one won't necessarily mean you lose access to the other. Its an insurance policy for balance.

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Why would that be nessisary? Lets face it if you lose your spawning pool early game your done.

That's true. You lose your spawning pool, so you can't make Zerglings.

If you can't make Zerglings, how are you going to make banelings?

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Originally Posted by ArcherofAiur

Why would that be necessary? Lets face it if you lose your spawning pool early game your done.

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That's why the Roach was originally tier 1, and is why the Hydralisk Den is now there. At least with the Baneling Nest not being part of the Spawning Pool, you can morph any Zerglings you may still have into Banelings if you so choose to create a mixed force.

I agree it doesn't seem nessessary, but I understand why its there.

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Originally Posted by DemolitionSquid

That's why the Roach was originally tier 1, and is why the Hydralisk Den is now there. At least with the Baneling Nest not being part of the Spawning Pool, you can morph any Zerglings you may still have into Banelings if you so choose to create a mixed force.

I agree it doesn't seem nessessary, but I understand why its there.

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I think we would need a blue responce to be sure that was the reason. It doesnt seem significant at all.

Perhaps, as a compromise, the Nest remains as it is in multiplayer (if it is indeed an issue of balance), but in the campaign, it mutates from the Pool.

Having the Baneling Nest be a separate building also forces you to use a precious Drone, which means you need to use a precious Larva. In effect, it costs you more. Which is entirely appropriate for a Tier 1 building. You're making a hard choice with early-game Larva.

By the time you're wanting to make Lurkers or Brood Lords, Larva are easy(ier) to come by, so it isn't much of a cost. Better to just make it happen by itself.

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Perhaps, as a compromise, the Nest remains as it is in multiplayer (if it is indeed an issue of balance), but in the campaign, it mutates from the Pool.

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Why? This isn't a lore issue; it's a gameplay issue.

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Originally Posted by Nicol Bolas

Having the Baneling Nest be a separate building also forces you to use a precious Drone, which means you need to use a precious Larva. In effect, it costs you more. Which is entirely appropriate for a Tier 1 building. You're making a hard choice with early-game Larva.

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Again doesnt seem nearly worth it. Your traiding what has become a charetoristic of zerg buildings for 1 larva? Yes larva as a resource matter but 1 larva at that stage is not a significant investment.

The thing is, if you lose the spawning pool, then the baneling nest would be lost.
That's the obvious part.

But then to make another Baneling, you have to make another Spawning Pool, and then evolve it again. Losing one building makes you lose 2 techs, and you have to wait twice as long to remake the banelings.

Where as, right now, you lose one pool, you make one pool. You lose one nest, you make one nest. As Zerg, I think losing one tech is bad enough. Imagine losing two in one blow. *cringe*

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Originally Posted by Rizhall

The thing is, if you lose the spawning pool, then the baneling nest would be lost.
That's the obvious part.

But then to make another Baneling, you have to make another Spawning Pool, and then evolve it again. Losing one building makes you lose 2 techs, and you have to wait twice as long to remake the banelings.

Where as, right now, you lose one pool, you make one pool. You lose one nest, you make one nest. As Zerg, I think losing one tech is bad enough. Imagine losing two in one blow. *cringe*

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Exactly.

As I said, yes, Banelings come from Zerglings. But even if you lose your Pool you may still have Zerglings already built, and you may want them to become Banelings. Having two separate buildings is an advantage, not a hindrance.

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Originally Posted by Rizhall

The thing is, if you lose the spawning pool, then the baneling nest would be lost.
That's the obvious part.

But then to make another Baneling, you have to make another Spawning Pool, and then evolve it again. Losing one building makes you lose 2 techs, and you have to wait twice as long to remake the banelings.

Where as, right now, you lose one pool, you make one pool. You lose one nest, you make one nest. As Zerg, I think losing one tech is bad enough. Imagine losing two in one blow. *cringe*

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You lose spawning pool your dead. You have what 5 zerglings you can turn into banelings and thats going to save you?


Plus upgrading the spawning pool --> Baneling Nest would presumably make it harder to kill.

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Originally Posted by ArcherofAiur

You lose spawning pool your dead. You have what 5 zerglings you can turn into banelings and thats going to save you?


Plus upgrading the spawning pool --> Baneling Nest would presumably make it harder to kill.

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Or you could just have two buildings with the same HP as one upgraded, which cost the same as one upgraded, which you can possibly protect better by separating their placement in your base.

AGAIN: having two buildings early game is an ADVANTAGE. You can recover faster.

And stop saying that "if you lose your Pool, you're dead." That's SC1. This is SC2, and while its likely true, we can't know for sure yet.

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Originally Posted by DemolitionSquid

Or you could just have two buildings with the same HP as one upgraded, which cost the same as one upgraded, which you can possibly protect better by separating their placement in your base.

AGAIN: having two buildings early game is an ADVANTAGE. You can recover faster.

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The chances of it actually being an advantage are microscopic. You are not making zerglings!

Like what are you going to do? Morph the only zerglings you have left into banelings? Great now you have zero fighting units LOL.

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Originally Posted by ArcherofAiur

The chances of it actually being an advantage are microscopic. You are not making zerglings!

Like what are you going to do? Morph the only zerglings you have left into banelings? Great now you have zero fighting units LOL.

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And he may have zero fighting units and have lost a few buildings of his own. Banelings are strong. And the point is to give you OPTIONS. Options SC1 never had.

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Originally Posted by DemolitionSquid

And he may have zero fighting units and have lost a few buildings of his own. Banelings are strong. And the point is to give you OPTIONS. Options SC1 never had.

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So now the only time this is useful is when the opponent kills your spawning pool and you manage to kill his at the exact same time. I appologize the chances of this being an advantage arnt microscopic. They are nanoscopic.

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Originally Posted by ArcherofAiur

So now the only time this is useful is when the opponent kills your spawning pool and you manage to kill his at the exact same time. I appologize the chances of this being an advantage arnt microscopic. They are nanoscopic.

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We have NO way of knowing that Spawning Pool death = certain death. Considering by the time you get both a Nest and Pool you'll likely have a strong enough economy to put up another fairly quickly. Plus, defending is easier than attacking.

I don't understand how you're so stupid and ignorant . I try not to insult you, but its so goddamn hard. You're advocating putting all your eggs in one basket. And its retarded.

Just cause the Baneling Nest deviates from the traditional morphing original strain prerequisite structure, doesn't mean everyone should suddenly be worried about it.

Leave it alone, it's unique and it works.


-Psi

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Originally Posted by DemolitionSquid

We have NO way of knowing that Spawning Pool death = certain death.

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Spawning pool death doesnt mean certain death. It just means really really likely death. The enemy player could always drop dead of a heart attack :p

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Originally Posted by DemolitionSquid

I don't understand how you're so stupid and ignorant . I try not to insult you, but its so goddamn hard. You're advocating putting all your eggs in one basket. And its retarded.

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Demo you call everyone stupid in the hopes it will make your arguement better. You are like the king of antagonizing people on these forums and luckly everyone has learned to tolerate/ignore it.

I would ignore you but you do bring up occasional good points. Like with Proton Charge being exponential. Your right it is exponential and its value does fluctuate in time. It just the conclusions you draw from that which are assumptive. Your assumptions differ from my assumptions and we debate that. You need to learn the difference between someone being stupid and someone holding a difference of opinion from you. I am in medical school and I can assure you they dont let stupid people in ;)

Demo... seriously, only in the strange case that the enemy destroyed the Spawning Pool, then their units die, would this make any difference. Normally, if they taken down your pool early game, you already used all your units to defend, and now you're kinda defenseless, you know?

I actually forgot the baneling nest have a new look lol

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Originally Posted by Norfindel

Demo... seriously, only in the strange case that the enemy destroyed the Spawning Pool, then their units die, would this make any difference. Normally, if they taken down your pool early game, you already used all your units to defend, and now you're kinda defenseless, you know?

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As I said: If you have both a Baneling Nest and Spawning Pool, its likely far enough into the game for you to have a few Spine Crawlers and be able to build that Pool up again asap. Neither of you are taking that into account. All you see is "Spawning Pool dead = you probably dead." Its ignorant man.

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Originally Posted by ArcherofAiur

Demo you call everyone stupid in the hopes it will make your arguement better.

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I don't do it to make my argument better. I do it to help illustrate how yours is worse. :D

LOL How did they kill your spawning pool if you have spine crawlers?

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Originally Posted by ArcherofAiur

LOL How did they kill your spawning pool if you have spine crawlers?

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Its an example. A viable one. If a mass force of Marines rushes into your base, and micros around your crawlers, and kills your Zerglings and Banelings, because your Ling/Baneling/Crawler use was poor, and you get your Pool focus fired-on.

Not everyone is pro.

Your stretching.

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Originally Posted by ArcherofAiur

Your stretching.

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And now you know what it feels like for me to listen to you.

Except, you know, my scenario is plausible.

Its plausable. It just will happen on such a microscopic number of games. Like maybe he has all his units burrowed and went to get some milk in the fridge and came back and his spawning pool was destroyed.