Zerg ultimate.

Hi , i know i am new here, I hope ill be welcome , but now lets go to the point in question:
Protoss has the mothership , which has the best spells in-game, they are gamebreakers if used well.
Terran has nukes, a really good player like TLO can make nukes work really good.

Zerg has ..........? i believe that nydus is the equal to the terran and protoss ultimate , but they are expensive, they cost minerals and gas to summon a new worm(aswell as time and space in the ground to morph in) , it is like a mass recall but slower and with mineral/gas Cost...
Shouldn't zerg have a better ultimate?(having in mind how underpowered zerg is)
If it should , which one would you suggest?
if it shouldn't ,why not?


PS:Sorry about the bad english , it is not my native language.

Well zerg have infestors. Can reveal cloaked units with fungal. Can spawn infested terrans which do pretty good damage. Can control enemy units with neural parasite. The infestor is a real game changer. The only unit immune to its spells is the ultralisk. Sounds like a pretty awesome unit to me.:P A zerg ultimate unit. Plus instead of saying nuke is a terran ultimate unit might as well say ghost seeing as how nuke is the ghost's ability.:P

Quote:

---

Well zerg have infestors. Can reveal cloaked units with fungal. Can spawn infested terrans which do pretty good damage. Can control enemy units with neural parasite. The infestor is a real game changer. The only unit immune to its spells is the ultralisk. Sounds like a pretty awesome unit to me.:P A zerg ultimate unit. Plus instead of saying nuke is a terran ultimate unit might as well say ghost seeing as how nuke is the ghost's ability.:P

---

Ghost = High templar = infestor.

I do agree that the infested terrrans Dps is one of the best in the game , as it does more damage than a marine(even both full upgraded)
You have to build nukes to use them, and remmember in the old broodwar days i think it cost Supply still better than any infestor hability(at least more destructive).
Fungal growth equals Storm and EMP shockweave , i think the only one that dosn't reveal cloak units is Psi storm ( i could be wrong do).
Neural parasite = Feedback = Sniper round.
Not so effective , as infestors are a very expensive unit , if it get's sniped by the rest of the units arround you just wasted alot , Feedback and sniper round aren't that much risky as the neural parasite.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by YourockLoL

Hi , i know i am new here, I hope ill be welcome , but now lets go to the point in question:
Protoss has the mothership , which has the best spells in-game, they are gamebreakers if used well.
Terran has nukes, a really good player like TLO can make nukes work really good.

Zerg has ..........? i believe that nydus is the equal to the terran and protoss ultimate , but they are expensive, they cost minerals and gas to summon a new worm(aswell as time and space in the ground to morph in) , it is like a mass recall but slower and with mineral/gas Cost...
Shouldn't zerg have a better ultimate?(having in mind how underpowered zerg is)
If it should , which one would you suggest?
if it shouldn't ,why not?


PS:Sorry about the bad english , it is not my native language.

---

Hi.

I think we should all be very careful when speaking of imbalances. Yes, there's a lot of people out there, complaining about how weak the zerg are etc.

Personally, I don't think that I'm at the level of gameplay, where any kind of imbalance is the sole reason for me winning a game. And i think it's like that for a lot of people. And still these people complain about how zerg are " weak, pathetic " and what not, just cause progamers ( Like Idra ) say so.

That being said, I'm not saying that there isn't maybe a problem. I'm just saying, that i think people are slightly too fast in blaming a loss on imbalance.

Anyway, I don't mean to derail this thread into a talk about wether the zergs are underpowered or not.

The fact is, that these so called " ultimates " have nothing to do with it. I have seen very few games where a mothership or a nuke played a huge role, in terms of a win. And from what I've been reading ( Protoss player myself ), the zergs are weak early game, not late game.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by YourockLoL

Ghost = High templar = infestor.

I do agree that the infested terrrans Dps is one of the best in the game , as it does more damage than a marine(even both full upgraded)
You have to build nukes to use them, and remmember in the old broodwar days i think it cost Supply still better than any infestor hability(at least more destructive).
Fungal growth equals Storm and EMP shockweave , i think the only one that dosn't reveal cloak units is Psi storm ( i could be wrong do).
Neural parasite = Feedback = Sniper round.
Not so effective , as infestors are a very expensive unit , if it get's sniped by the rest of the units arround you just wasted alot , Feedback and sniper round aren't that much risky as the neural parasite.

---

Okay, this is one of the most retarded things that I've read in a long time.

"Fungal growth equals Storm and EMP shockweave"
What? I don't understand how you can compare these three? The races in SC2 are supposed to be different, and not to be the same units with a different name/model/animation.

Fungal growth stops units from moving, while dealing damage over a longer period of time. Storm deals a shitload of damage in a relatively short amount of time, while EMP's takes away shields and energy.

"Neural parasite = Feedback = Sniper round."

Again, i completely fail to see your point. How can you even think like this?

@yourocklol:
neural parasite is awesome vs a colossus

@yourocklol
You're right in that storm doesn't reveal cloaked units. But the thing snipe or storm can't kill off a key unit like tanks/colossus easily. You should check out recent Day9 daily funday monday encore with rootCatz. Going mass queens with infestors. Just keep transfusing the infestors and keep them alive. They are all basically equal like you said.

Ghost= HT= Infestor
The key spellcasters for each race.

If you don't wanna consider spellcasters then would be mothership for protoss. Planetary fortress for terran. Nydus worm for zerg. They each sort of reflect the playstyles of the races. Mothership to support the main army or protect a key expansion with recall. Planetary fortress to just stop ground attacks along certain lanes. Nydus worm to let the whole zerg army move quickly across the map.

@Dropsonic
You kinda derailed it a bit with your post. Hopefully it doesn't bring up a lot of zerg QQ.

EDIT: Oh and can't simply say zerg is strong late game. Try asking a zerg to balance roach/hydra/corruptor/spinecrawler in PvZ or to do the ultralisk-broodlord tech switch in TvZ. Not that easy.

And about the "equals" you were having fault with from yourocklol. I don't find fault with that. It's the way the spellcasters were made. One AOE attack (fungal/emp/storm) and one targetted unit attack (NP/feedback/snipe). Wouldn't call using the "equals" for those retarded. It's grouping together the AOE attacks and the single target attacks. They're obviously different but they all come under the same groups. And about the NP being more risky. The infestor has to stand still to use it. The other spellcasters can cast their single unit spells and run.

@YourockLol
Another thing about you saying nydus is like recall but slower, etc. Remember one thing. Recall costs energy and typically can't be done in quick succession. Zerg is a race that expands easily so they can get more bases and resources than the other races. You can use multiple nydus worms at once in different locations. With a mothership you can only recall to the mothership.

Quote:

---

Hi.

I think we should all be very careful when speaking of imbalances. Yes, there's a lot of people out there, complaining about how weak the zerg are etc.

Personally, I don't think that I'm at the level of gameplay, where any kind of imbalance is the sole reason for me winning a game. And i think it's like that for a lot of people. And still these people complain about how zerg are " weak, pathetic " and what not, just cause progamers ( Like Idra ) say so.

That being said, I'm not saying that there isn't maybe a problem. I'm just saying, that i think people are slightly too fast in blaming a loss on imbalance.

Anyway, I don't mean to derail this thread into a talk about wether the zergs are underpowered or not.

The fact is, that these so called " ultimates " have nothing to do with it. I have seen very few games where a mothership or a nuke played a huge role, in terms of a win. And from what I've been reading ( Protoss player myself ), the zergs are weak early game, not late game.

---

as i said on another post reply ,on the "expansions units" , i agree with you, Zergs lategame is awesome , but it's missing something, as Zerg late game can't deal with terran massive mech lateGame , and i am 100% sure of that... zerg is missing a midgame assault unit , and that ultimate can cover it , dealing with the zergs problems.(and i am curious how pro players[Zerg players] can make use of an ultimate unit)

Quote:

---

@yourocklol:
neural parasite is awesome vs a colossus

---

3 well microed stalkers make you lost alot of gas by sniping your infestor.

Quote:

---

You're right in that storm doesn't reveal cloaked units. But the thing snipe or storm can't kill off a key unit like tanks/colossus easily. You should check out recent Day9 daily funday monday encore with rootCatz. Going mass queens with infestors. Just keep transfusing the infestors and keep them alive. They are all basically equal like you said.

Ghost= HT= Infestor
The key spellcasters for each race.

If you don't wanna consider spellcasters then would be mothership for protoss. Planetary fortress for terran. Nydus worm for zerg. They each sort of reflect the playstyles of the races. Mothership to support the main army or protect a key expansion with recall. Planetary fortress to just stop ground attacks along certain lanes. Nydus worm to let the whole zerg army move quickly across the map

---

i didn't say that i do not want to consider spellcasters , but Infestor isn't an ultimate , as it's lower tier than a mothership.
And nydus worm requires time to build, Minerals , gas , Sight on the Zone, and it transport 1unit per time unless you have more than 1 nydus , which cost you more , meanwhile the mass recall is free , just energy and the cost of the initial mothership.



I have to go for now , tomorrow i keep with the responses and replys.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by YourockLoL

3 well microed stalkers make you lost alot of gas by sniping your infestor.

---

If you don't put your infestors behind your army, this is probably true.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by YourockLoL

i didn't say that i do not want to consider spellcasters , but Infestor isn't an ultimate , as it's lower tier than a mothership.
And nydus worm requires time to build, Minerals , gas , Sight on the Zone, and it transport 1unit per time unless you have more than 1 nydus , which cost you more , meanwhile the mass recall is free , just energy and the cost of the initial mothership.

---

I think you should stop comparing units to the mothership. The unit is so rarely used, that i barely notice it ingame. Unless i 2v2 of course.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by YourockLoL

i didn't say that i do not want to consider spellcasters , but Infestor isn't an ultimate , as it's lower tier than a mothership.
And nydus worm requires time to build, Minerals , gas , Sight on the Zone, and it transport 1unit per time unless you have more than 1 nydus , which cost you more , meanwhile the mass recall is free , just energy and the cost of the initial mothership.

---

You misunderstood me. I'm saying the key spellcasters are some of the "ultimate units". There's obviously more than one. You can consider colossus, siege tanks, broodlords, etc ultimate units. Ultimate in the sense that they're really good and are tech units and in the late game you want more of them and less of lower tier units. Some units are just so good they can be ultimate without having to be the "highest tier". If you wanna go top tier units then the ultimate units are infestor, broodlord, ultralisk, carrier, mothership, dark templar, high templar, colossus, thor, battlecruiser, ghost(maybe).

And about mothership/nydus argument. How long does it take to get 1 mothership?? How long does it take to get a nydus?? The point of the nydus is that you have more than 1 of them. Mothership just only have 1. If you can have more nyduses then obviously you'll do the things like have sight, slow unload, costs resources etc or it would be completely overpowered.

EDIT: And really colossi right now are more the ultimate unit for protoss than the mothership. They do really good damage with splash and long range. A mothership on full energy can case 2 vortexes/mass recalls. But just 1 ghost of 1 HT can just take away all the mothership's energy and it becomes just a big slow target. Hmmmm...yourocklol your profile says gold league. Kinda explains why you started the thread talking about motherships and nukes.:P It's been a really long time since I've seen a mothership or nuke in ladder play but I haven't been playing much lately.