Re: Terrans weilding Protoss technology?
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Originally Posted by
Pandonetho
Your assumptions of the costs are completely unfounded. Research time? I'm sorry, but they probably just picked it up from the battlefield and made modifications to it. Ghosts are the epitome of human evolution, Terrans already spend a lot of resources decking out Ghosts. Somehow research time is considered a negative? Terrans will always continue to research things, that's a moot point.
Proof?
Oh yes, because the sole reason the Spetsnaz use it is because it's cheap. /sarcasm.
At the end of it all, you still have failed to prove anything regarding the psi blade and how it's detrimental to a ghost's abilities. Seeing as how Ghosts are hardly something that exist en-mass, they're something you'd want to spend time making as good as possible. Not only that, you're under the assumption that guns are the solution to everything, and your only (weak) argument is that if a Ghost ever gets into a melee situation he screwed up and that's that. Nope, he shouldn't have a melee weapon to deal with the situation.
Actually the rest of your argument consists of zero evidence and assumptions.
So let me get this straight, even if it DOES take Protoss gene splicing (which you've yet to provide evidence for), you're not going to apply a psi blade to him orry, but I've yet to hear a single post from you that actually points out the negatives of having a psi blade.
Guess what, don't post again if you're going to use strawman arguments. Post again if you have actual points to make about what negatives there are to having a psi blade (on a rare super soldier that was further enhanced to become more valuable).
right lets give ghosts reaper jet-packs
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to ensure the survival of your enhanced soldier should he run into circumstances that were not forseen? S
I didn't say psi-blades were detrimental, im saying that they are most likely unnecessary. Their are so many things that exist in the starcraft universe that psi-blades are the last and least cost-effective thing you could possible give to ghosts.
Second, the reason why knives are a great addition to special operations forces is because they are not ludicrously expensive. Their is something in the military called "budgets". Im pretty sure that even 500 years in the future, these things called "budgets" still exist.
If psi-blades are so easy to manufacture on terrans, why is their only ONE known experiment involving it? On a terran that had to be hybridized with protoss genes?
I don't think you grasp just how much new technology would cost. Psi-blades involve manipulating alien technology, something that terrans have very little understanding of.
Stop sticking your fingers into your ears when it comes to my arguments. You've still yet to address these set of issues, which I clarified in my last post.
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a)If someones shooting at you, that rather then shoot them back, you running up to them and attack them with a psi-blade is a superior option (note that ghosts do not have a sheilds of the protoss. This makes it very hard to approach enemies who are shooting at you without stealth, if not impossible)
b)ghosts, a special operations squad designed for pre-emptive strikes, sniping, battle-feild support, black-ops assassinations, counter-insurgency and a lot of other special op roles will be fighting melee opponents such as zerglings, hydralisks and zealots, in close range situations, on a solo basis
Find me a military role where "psi-blades" fit in. Note that it has to be solo, as if the ghost had cover fire, and the ghost lacks the sheilds a protoss has, a blade will be almost impossible to use.
c)that their is no way a ghost can efficiently assassinate a armored close range target without the use of psi-blades
Its not that a ghost will never encounter scenarios where a psi-blade will be useful, its that I find it dumb to equip a ghost with a piece of gear he will literally use in maybe 2%-3% of his missions, that couldn't be supplemented by an existing, cheaper piece of gear.
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and stop fixating over negatives. They obviously do not negate any existing ghost abilities, they are in no way a detriment. But im saying that they simply do not come close to be useful in a cost-benefit analysis. Your literally looking at doubling the cost of ghosts for a marginally useful "tool". Do you think the special ops you were talking about would use ballistic knives if they cost up to millions of dollars?
Re: Terrans weilding Protoss technology?
Let me ask you a question.
This is direct evidence from the lore. Evidence, something that you lack in all of your posts.
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Ghosts are trained in target shooting, close-quarters combat (martial arts and possibly other techniques) and vehicular expertise.
Why do you think they're trained in CQB is they're never going to use it? If you're going to bash the psi blade, then you might as well bash the entire Ghost Training program.
Secondly, your claims of budget are outrageous, considering the Terran Dominion has the budget to make things like the Thor which is nothing more than an intimidation unit. Third of all, your claims that it costs a lot to use psi blades is ridiculous as well.
Let me ask you another question.
Would you rather spend millions on decking out a Ghost and training him, just to "exclude" the psi blade because it's a minor extra cost in the process and risk losing him to a situation where one could have benefited him. Or would you rather just give him the damn blade and he'll use it whenever applicable? It would also serve in saving his life in situations that are again, not foreseen.
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that couldn't be supplemented by an existing, cheaper piece of gear.
If you can find me a cheaper piece of Gear made by the Terrans that is strong enough to melee attack straight through the neo steel plating of a Marine and is easily concealed, (lol you think a knife is going to penetrate marine armour?) then by all means provide the evidence. If not, then stop making assumptions.
Re: Terrans weilding Protoss technology?
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Originally Posted by
Pandonetho
Let me ask you a question.
This is direct evidence from the lore.
Why do you think they're trained in CQB is they're never going to use it? If you're going to bash the psi blade, then you might as well bash the entire Ghost Training program.
-_-
Martial arts are applicable in an entirely different feild from a fucking lightsaber. You use martial arts for silent killing, for surprise attacks, for when your unarmed at the moment, and have a lot of other utility uses. Their is literally one role psi-blades do that martial arts cannot. That is dismembering exo-skeleton armored opponents.
Oh and martial arts training doesnt cost millions of dollars+ more in researching
Both our arguments are weighted on the cost of the psi-blade. Yours works if they are cheap, mine works if they are expensive. They're is only one application of terran psi-blades, from the gestalt comic. He is the only known ghost to use psi-blades, and he recieved gene splicing. Its not a stretch to connect the two.
Now, how could gene splicing with an alien race+alien tech possibly be anything remotely economic?
2)
A silenced gauss pistol with armor piercing rounds.
Second psi-blades arent easy to conceal...at all...
Re: Terrans weilding Protoss technology?
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Martial arts are applicable in an entirely different feild from a fucking lightsaber. You use martial arts for silent killing, for surprise attacks, for when your unarmed at the moment, and have a lot of other utility uses.
I'm sorry, are you telling me that guns couldn't do any of these better? And when is a Ghost every going to be unarmed? I'll take a page from you book, less than 1% of the time?
Are you telling me that something like a lightsaber (which by the way closely resembles a sword) has nothing to do with martial arts?
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That is dismembering exo-skeleton armored opponents.
And who are the opponents 100% of the time? Guys who you can punch and kill? Guys who aren't in exo-skeleton suits?
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Second psi-blades arent easy to conceal...at all...
I'm getting real tired of you making assumptions. Again, where are your facts? Did you even read the Gestalt Zero comic? He wielded a psi blade perfectly fine, and it wasn't as ginormous as you were making a fuss about, in fact it was perfectly normal sized for a human.
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Now, how could gene splicing with an alien race+alien tech possibly be anything remotely economic?
How are Thors even remotely economic?
Re: Terrans weilding Protoss technology?
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Originally Posted by
Pandonetho
I'm sorry, are you telling me that guns couldn't do any of these better? And when is a Ghost every going to be unarmed? I'll take a page from you book, less than 1% of the time?
Are you telling me that something like a lightsaber (which by the way closely resembles a sword) has nothing to do with martial arts?
Now your just being ridiculous. Guns cannot silently incapacitate a target from an extremely close range. Guns cannot be quickly drawn in case of a surprise attack. Guns can't disarm the opponent. Do I really list this out for you?
but wait you say? Doesn't that counter my own argument against psi-blades? No, of course not, because martial arts already has those roles filled out. As I said...martial arts are only ineffective against armored targets. On the battlefeild, the ghost won't be in range of armor targets, and if he is, the last thing hes gonna do is run towards them.
Also...martial arts are training, not something you have to get gene-spliced to use.
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And who are the opponents 100% of the time? Guys who you can punch and kill? Guys who aren't in exo-skeleton suits?
From books like uprising and nova suggest that for the most part, during stealth missions where silent melee kills will be used, your target isn't the marine. Throughout the books neither of the characters are in a situation where the melee assassination of a person in a armored suit is remotely relevent.
Re: Terrans weilding Protoss technology?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pandonetho
How are Thors even remotely economic?
Because they provide battle cruiser level artillery in situations where battle cruisers may not be viable. Which is something you can prepare for. Even if this happens 5% of the time, you can build thors for that 5%. With ghosts, its preparing for the possibility, so you need to arm them with it 100% of the times, when its almost always unnecessary.
Second, I doubt the thor is that uneconomical. It really can't cost more the battlecruiser, which has a nuclear fusion control chamber that can harness a uncontrolled nuclear detonation and shoot it at something. Since the level of firepower is similar, it may very well be a efficient, if situation unit.
The idea behind it is "battle-cruiser level artillery thats ground based". If you lose a battlecruiser, your losing the ftl drive, dozens of men, and a lot of other stuff. The thorr is smaller, requires like, a single guy to pilot (or a similar number), and no ftl drive is lost when it dies. Second, the inefficient seeming "mech" may be the most space efficient way of creating a platform stable enough to handle battlecruiser class artillery.
Re: Terrans weilding Protoss technology?
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Now your just being ridiculous. Guns cannot silently incapacitate a target from an extremely close range. Guns cannot be quickly drawn in case of a surprise attack. Guns can't disarm the opponent. Do I really list this out for you?
All of these which a psi blade can do effectively, including armored targets.
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Also...martial arts are training, not something you have to get gene-spliced to use.
You seem to have things backwards. Using the psi blade is a bonus in addition to the gene splicing, they didn't gene splice a ghost specifically just to use a psi blade.
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Second, I doubt the thor is that uneconomical. It really can't cost more the battlecruiser, which has a nuclear fusion control chamber that can harness a uncontrolled nuclear detonation and shoot it at something. Since the level of firepower is similar, it may very well be a efficient, if situation unit.
Exactly, nothing in Starcraft is economical if you look at it realistically, so using budgets as an argument fails. I'm not going to get into an argument with you about how economic the Thor is, if you really think it's that economical go ask for a debate against Lupino or someone who actually knows about why these things are not cost effective.
Also, I'm tired of the argument, clearly neither of us is going to be persuaded.
Let's agree to disagree.
Re: Terrans weilding Protoss technology?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pandonetho
Also, I'm tired of the argument, clearly neither of us is going to be persuaded.
Let's agree to disagree.
sounds like a plan.
have a nice day.
