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View Full Version : Classic unit showdown #1: Battlecruiser



Kimera757
05-27-2009, 08:20 PM
I'm bored, so I figured I'd do classic unit showdowns.

The old battlecruiser had going for it:

500 hit points with 3 base armor.

The Yamato Gun, which does high damage and has great range.

Basic attack: 25 damage a pop at a low rate of fire.



The new battlecruiser has going for it (BlizzCon 2008 stats):

600 hit points with 3 base armor.

Special abilities:

*Defensive Matrix: 200 extra hp. Including the extra 100 hp the battlecruiser gets in StarCraft II, this gives the battlecruiser the ability to withstand 15 extra missile turret hits. (In fact, it can take more, due not only to the high base armor, but StarCraft II missile turrets split the damage over two attacks.) My math says 21 extra hits from the SC2 changes, not counting the effect the split attacks have on the base SC1 hit points, assuming the missile turret can no longer upgrade. And if not ... battlecruiser armor upgrades will be scarily effective. Forests of missile turrets will no longer deter battlecruisers with this upgrade. (Well, not as much.)
**Please note: I don't think I've seen missile turret damage stats since BlizzCon 2007 anywhere; they may have been changed. Or maybe Blizzard did that deliberately to nerf GtA attacks.

*Missile Swarm: With this ability, battlecruisers can toast swarms of units. While it can kill mutalisks, I think this is more useful against small numbers of units like void rays (which are otherwise a dangerous threat to the battlecruiser). A battlecruiser with Missile Swarm can protect other battlecruisers with more offensive abilities. Like anything that's pure AtA, this is a purely defensive maneuver.

*The Yamato Cannon, as above but with smartcast. Really handy in capital ship battles. As in practice your ship-killing techniques and rule the skies!

Basic attack: 64 damage. It attacks 8 times, each time doing 8 damage. In capital ship vessels this isn't that great. Instead, battlecruisers seem better designed to take on enemy units like void rays (which can scare it) and phoenixes (which deal half damage to it) rather than other capital ships. However, that's not the best part. Because the 8 attacks occur in a fast burst rather than literally all at once, the attacks are themselves "smartcasted". If a battlecruiser attacks a unit that has 40 hit points (no armor, no shields, no regeneration, some damaged unit) five attacks will hit it, and the next three will hit something else.

On the downside: Vikings do more damage than Scouts ever did vs BCs (40 rather than the Scout's 28) and Vikings can be double pumped with reactors. Void rays also do high damage but doing the math on them is rather more difficult.

DemolitionSquid
05-27-2009, 08:28 PM
Pretty clear the new BC is uber.

Of course, its not balanced yet.

ArcherofAiur
05-27-2009, 08:31 PM
Anyone else feel missle swarm might not be that usefull when you could just get Thors?

And yes this is complete speculation.

ManjiSanji
05-27-2009, 08:39 PM
From the videos, I was under the impression that the rate of fire of BCs is actually pretty quick; as in the cooldown between one volley and the next is fairly short, considering the damage done. I think it's maybe...2-3 seconds?

New BCs are truly behemoths =D

If only the Carrier was redesigned to be as awesome.

Norfindel
05-27-2009, 08:39 PM
Wow! that's a BIG nerf on the Yamato cannon, but with Smart cast, most direct damage abilities got nerfed, including Psi Storm.


If a battlecruiser attacks a unit that has 40 hit points (no armor, no shields, no regeneration, some damaged unit) five attacks will hit it, and the next three will hit something else.
Are you sure it's that way how it works? What would visually happend if the unit dies, and damage gets applied to another unit?

Kimera757
05-27-2009, 08:45 PM
Wow! that's a BIG nerf on the Yamato cannon, but with Smart cast, most direct damage abilities got nerfed, including Psi Storm.

Wait ... how did Yamato get nerfed? (I think I gave that impression due to my poor formatting.)


Are you sure it's that way how it works? What would visually happend if the unit dies, and damage gets applied to another unit?

I'm sure that's how it works. StarCraft Legacy had a WWI article on that (WWI stuff hasn't reappeared yet, grr....) and people who did blogs based around WWI said the same thing.

The BC fires 8 tiny (too small, really) little bursts at the enemy, one right after the other. The time between each shot within a burst is really short. In the above example, it fires five shots, then it quickly turns and fires the other three shots at something else.

ManjiSanji
05-27-2009, 09:06 PM
I like the smaller bursts more than the one, singular blast from SC1. It really emphasizes the whole, "bristles with weapons," description, and makes it seem mighty. One large singular attack isn't always the definition of mighty (although the BC has that too, in the form of the Yamato Cannon, so it covers both).

Pandonetho
05-27-2009, 10:27 PM
From what I've heard, the BC is highly overpowered and destroys everything in its path.

GRUNT
05-27-2009, 10:35 PM
The new Battlecruiser is an absolute monster. Sadly, I don't see how this is a competition :p.

flabortast
05-28-2009, 12:03 AM
Correction! The SC1 BC costs 6 supply as of version 1.08

MattII
05-28-2009, 02:01 AM
No competition, but then you'd hardly expect there to be, the new Battlecruiser does more damage (8*8 damage outmatches straight 25 at anything below 6 armour) if the firing cycles are the same length, has more hp (100 more), is quicker to produce (50 seconds less), and doesn't cost any more population or resources.

IvanVankata
05-28-2009, 05:18 AM
So... I guess 12 battlecruisers=GG if they don`t reduce the stats of the new battlecruiser. less production time, more fire-power, more HP - you cannot bring this thing down. I like I like = ) Deploy a dozen of them on the battlefield and it will be a good day indeed, commander ! :D

MattII
05-28-2009, 05:34 AM
Yep, unbeatable, right up until you run up against a Terran player who's massed Vikings, a Protoss Player who's massed Void Rays, or a Zerg player who's massed Corruptors and Hydras.

Hammy
05-28-2009, 05:42 AM
So... I guess 12 battlecruisers=GG if they don`t reduce the stats of the new battlecruiser. less production time, more fire-power, more HP - you cannot bring this thing down. I like I like = ) Deploy a dozen of them on the battlefield and it will be a good day indeed, commander ! :D
AtA and GtA is pretty uber for the time being. I feel like anything air-based is going to be extremely fast paced. Stuff dies sooo quickly because units seem to be really specialized (like hydras rape air so badly...). Last time I tried the corruptor it completely obliterated anything in the air, and apparently the viking's got a huge range (you could Kita BCs). As for protoss... they've got the void ray (which is a direct counter) as well as their own capital ship ;)
Although the BCs are making carriers look pretty bland right now...

edit: MattII beat me to it :p

The_Blade
05-28-2009, 09:04 AM
Even if this information is an aprox it makes me think more of an old idea someone posted here about the carrier interseptors. Currently with this abilities a bc can beat anything. One with defencive matrix lures the thor and the other yamatoes it. No damage. Curroptors get swarmed in a cloud of missiles. Void rays get swarmed as well. Meje all hydras get two-hit death.

The problem of this is that players wont use 3 or 5 bcs. they will use 12 24 30 bcs just as in the original sc

flabortast
05-28-2009, 09:47 AM
BCs are horribly expensive and high-tech. I don't know how any decent player can allow the terran to tech that high and mass that many BCs.

Zeratul_101
05-28-2009, 01:54 PM
The problem of this is that players wont use 3 or 5 bcs. they will use 12 24 30 bcs just as in the original sc

30 BC's? i suggest you stop playing against hugely inferior opponents and get off the money maps.

Pandonetho
05-28-2009, 06:01 PM
The argument that "any decent player shouldn't allow the enemy to tech up anyway" is flawed and absolutely retarded.

Therefore, anyone who uses that as an argument is retarded.

You thin a decent player vs a decent player will always end up the same way? With decent player A stopping decent player B from teching up? Worst point in history anyone can ever make.

Norfindel
05-28-2009, 06:07 PM
Wait ... how did Yamato get nerfed? (I think I gave that impression due to my poor formatting.)

I'm sure that's how it works. StarCraft Legacy had a WWI article on that (WWI stuff hasn't reappeared yet, grr....) and people who did blogs based around WWI said the same thing.

The BC fires 8 tiny (too small, really) little bursts at the enemy, one right after the other. The time between each shot within a burst is really short. In the above example, it fires five shots, then it quickly turns and fires the other three shots at something else.
Lol! Big misunderstanding. Somehow, i thinked the Yamato was doing 64 damage. Forget about what i said :p.

Pandonetho
05-28-2009, 06:11 PM
lol, if the Yamato did 64 damage it'd be the most worthless ability in the game.

DemolitionSquid
05-28-2009, 06:12 PM
lol, if the Yamato did 64 damage it'd be the most worthless ability in the game.

I'm pretty sure that honor would still go to Anti Gravity.

ArcherofAiur
05-28-2009, 06:32 PM
If halucination and anti gravity are low on the tech tree then there is a good window of game space where they are useful. This is after your first rushes but before the game goes into macro mode.

MattII
05-28-2009, 07:02 PM
You thin a decent player vs a decent player will always end up the same way? With decent player A stopping decent player B from teching up? Worst point in history anyone can ever make.

A bad point indeed, but that doesn't mean that the BC doesn't have weaknesses, it'll get shredded by Void Rays, blasted out of the sky by Vikings (note they do double damage vs. massive units a Battlecruiser is going to take 34 damage a hit from these guys), and probably won't even do too good vs, Corruptors.

viperjo
05-29-2009, 03:09 AM
The new battlecruiser is undeniably superior with the ability to specialize as a tank, AA specialist, or single target eliminator. While I dislike splitting the attack up into many weaker volleys that adds up to more damage overall, it is weaker against units with more HP afterall, it isn't a bad change. Smartcast will make using any of the abilities FAR easier to accomplish and i predict that we may see battlecruisers used in more competitive play in lieu of banshees should the game progress that far into the tech tree.