Blizzard posted a summary of the Starcraft plot

[Mislagnissa]

Back in April!

It succinctly explains the plot, including retcons.

https://starcraft2.com/en-us/news/23331587

[Turalyon]

I wonder why the Xel'Naga just went into hibernation after dealing with Amon. They got trashed by nascent Zerg and just decide it's a good idea to leave them alone to ravage the galaxy (and potentially themselves in the long-term) while they go hibernate?

Also, why would Amon imbue any race with purity of form and essence when it's part of continuing the Xel'naga cycle and the very thing he supposedly wants to break?

It's interesting that they also chose to omit any reference to the Overmind being a slave/pawn to Amon.

[Mislagnissa]

The story recaps typically omit nonsensical events and generally reinterpret the story to make more sense than it actually does. For example, the recap from the old SC2 site and WoL manual entirely omitted the fact that Kerrigan had ridiculous plot armor in BW. Blizz is certainly retconning the events of the games because that’s what they do: just look at WC.

The statement on genre is wrong. SC is not military or horror. It’s space opera, and really schlocky at that. I don’t think RTS is a good fit for genres besides military by its very nature. I really would have preferred if SC was military scifi rather than trying and failing to be space opera. Despite what nostalgia goggles might have people believe, the story isn’t any good.

I have yet to find any RTS story that is good. Although I have a preference for the Westwood RTS games because they knew they were b-movie fodder and embraced that. If I had to choose between bad plots, I prefer WW’s writing over Metzen’s. If nothing else, then WW wrote their playable sides as cultures with agency that the player can invest in... whereas Metzen obviously didn’t give a crap about anything outside the main characters.

[Turalyon]

But the recap regarding the distant past seems inconsistent within itself. It describes the cycle requiring purity of form and essence and that Amon wants to stop the cycle only to then say Amon gave purity of form to the Protoss and purity of essence to the Zerg.

There are a few RTS that have decent stories: Homeworld and World in Conflict come to mind. Universe at War's story is pretty decent. Some lesser known and old RTS's like Battle Realms and Ground Control weren't too shabby with their stories either. Age of Mythology and Rise of Legends don't necessarily have great stories but they utilise their fictional worlds in their stories interestingly. Although not exactly an RTS, Sacrifice (written by James Phinney) is pretty well written. Compared to those, Starcraft's ain't that bad.

As for Westwood RTS's, I preferred the original C&C and Red Alert stories than their sequel stories. Sure, it was all still cheesy and camp but the original games setting and story were more serious and grounded than the full tilt into sci-fi tropes that Tiberian Sun became and the blatant silliness of RA2. Although not Westwood, C&C3's story was pretty decent and a better mix of the sci-fi and grounded than what Tiberian Sun was.

[Mislagnissa]

The inconsistencies are due to Blizzard making things up as they went. This is normal behavior for them.

I wish Starcraft hadn’t tried to be space opera. I wish it had tried military scifi and making the playable sides interesting in their own right. Confederate colonies, zerg broods, protoss tribes, etc.

[Nissa]

Tried to read...can't care enough to do so. It's a bit late for Blizz to pretend they care about canon.

[Mislagnissa]

Are the xel’naga even necessary in the first place?

[Turalyon]

You'd think a recap wouldn't contradict itself within a few paragraphs but there you go...

The Xel'Naga were only ever necessary as background material and should've remained that way.

[Mislagnissa]

You'd think a recap wouldn't contradict itself within a few paragraphs but there you go...

The Xel'Naga were only ever necessary as background material and should've remained that way.

That’s Blizzard for you. Sargeras was originally a random demon lord who failed to invade Azeroth, then he got promoted to evil titan.

Anyway, I think you could have removed the xel’naga and had their role taken over by the First Age protoss.

[Turalyon]

That’s Blizzard for you. Sargeras was originally a random demon lord who failed to invade Azeroth, then he got promoted to evil titan.

Anyway, I think you could have removed the xel’naga and had their role taken over by the First Age protoss.

My Warcraft lore is sketchy but from what I could tell, the Warcraft2 manual only described Sargeras as a "Daemonlord" but not as an actual Daemon (where it does so for Kil'Jaden). Since this can be interpreted as either being a lord that is a Daemon or a lord of Daemons, there's enough wiggle room there for Warcraft3's additive retcon of him being actually a Titan that was a lord of Daemons, I suppose.

I'm not sure what you mean exactly by removing the Xel'naga (entirely?) and replacing it with First Age Protoss specifically since the provocation/impetus for the current conflict between the Zerg and Protoss is dependent on the Xel'naga's interference in the first place. Otherwise, the Zerg would have no reason to seek out the Protoss obsessively nor know about them without the Xel'naga. If the Protoss were the ones who initiated the Zerg rise rather than the Xel'Naga, then it's kinda difficult to parse how a protracted conflict between Protoss and Zerg could ever arise given the vast initial power differential. If the Protoss could travel across the galaxy and manipulate the evolution of species over generations like the Xel'naga did but still retained their military capability, there's no chance the nascent Zerg would've ever be a threat. This is not even considering contriving how Terrans would enter the picture/stand a chance either.

[Mislagnissa]

My Warcraft lore is sketchy but from what I could tell, the Warcraft2 manual only described Sargeras as a "Daemonlord" but not as an actual Daemon (where it does so for Kil'Jaden). Since this can be interpreted as either being a lord that is a Daemon or a lord of Daemons, there's enough wiggle room there for Warcraft3's additive retcon of him being actually a Titan that was a lord of Daemons, I suppose.That’s really besides the point. The WC3 retcons completely reimagined the universe until its themes were unrecognizable. The WC1/WC2 universes were fairly vague and mysterious, but as a result felt full of story possibilities. WC3 made the universe feel much smaller and imposed a rather childish and inconsistent view of morality on the setting.

Based on what little we know of WC3’s development, it was originally intended to be closer in tone to the gritty military narrative of WC1/WC2 before Metzen turned it into a schlocky Tolkien clone (no offense to Tolkien).


I'm not sure what you mean exactly by removing the Xel'naga (entirely?) and replacing it with First Age Protoss specifically since the provocation/impetus for the current conflict between the Zerg and Protoss is dependent on the Xel'naga's interference in the first place. Otherwise, the Zerg would have no reason to seek out the Protoss obsessively nor know about them without the Xel'naga.
This is fiction. You could easily contrive a bunch of alternative explanations, like the zerg discovering protoss ruins and learning about their advancement from a surviving library cache. If the xel’naga could develop protogenetics science by themselves, then another race like the zerg should be able to do the same.


If the Protoss were the ones who initiated the Zerg rise rather than the Xel'Naga, then it's kinda difficult to parse how a protracted conflict between Protoss and Zerg could ever arise given the vast initial power differential. If the Protoss could travel across the galaxy and manipulate the evolution of species over generations like the Xel'naga did but still retained their military capability, there's no chance the nascent Zerg would've ever be a threat. This is not even considering contriving how Terrans would enter the picture/stand a chance either.
That’s why I specified First Age. As in, the Eon War destroyed their old civilization and the current civilization has not yet reached the same level of advancement.

My point is that you never needed the xel’naga to make the premise work. You could change them to the protoss’ own genetic ancestors, keep the same general history outline, and events would still turn out the same.

For the longest time, SC fans imagined the xel’naga as looking like protoss despite no evidence in the lore for their appearance besides low-res statue doodads in the aiur and shakuras tilesets.

[KaiserStratosTygo]

Tried to read...can't care enough to do so. It's a bit late for Blizz to pretend they care about canon.

Agreed, If Blizzard doesn't give a fuck about canon, why should we?

I'd rather see Mid go on his trillionth tirade about how much of a missed opportunity SC as a whole was than read some mental gymnastics from Modern Blizz.

[Mislagnissa]

Agreed, If Blizzard doesn't give a fuck about canon, why should we?

I'd rather see Mid go on his trillionth tirade about how much of a missed opportunity SC as a whole was than read some mental gymnastics from Modern Blizz.

Honestly, I don’t expect great writing from video games in general. The RTS format in particular is difficult to tell stories with because it is so different from the more popular first- and third-person perspective games. I do think that military fiction genre is a better fit for RTS than any other genre, like romance or superheroes. If I have to have a not-great plot, then I prefer one that plays to the strengths of the format.

I think Starcraft should have focused on the invasion of human space and how the different sides react to the events. Showcasing the whole war isn’t feasible, so I think Mar Sara should have been the theater of the entire game rather than abandoned after the first third of episode 1. Keeping the focus on one planet rather than revolving the entire universe around Raynor would have neatly avoided most of the problems I have with the storytelling.

[KaiserStratosTygo]

Honestly, I don’t expect great writing from video games in general. The RTS format in particular is difficult to tell stories with because it is so different from the more popular first- and third-person perspective games. I do think that military fiction genre is a better fit for RTS than any other genre, like romance or superheroes. If I have to have a not-great plot, then I prefer one that plays to the strengths of the format.

I think Starcraft should have focused on the invasion of human space and how the different sides react to the events. Showcasing the whole war isn’t feasible, so I think Mar Sara should have been the theater of the entire game rather than abandoned after the first third of episode 1. Keeping the focus on one planet rather than revolving the entire universe around Raynor would have neatly avoided most of the problems I have with the storytelling.

Yeah, SC works better as an EVENT DRIVEN narrative, and not a character Driven one, there should've been scores of different characters that you don't see much of in each episode but gets more spotlight in some side campaigns.

also I think showcasing the whole war IS feasible, through various side stories, and parallel stories that Video games just don't like to portray so much anymore.

Lastly, I think its totally possible for games and especially RTS to have great stories, its just that the devs of these products either have no confidence in their ability to tell stories or fall into the trappings of "RTS' don't have good stories usually, so we shouldn't try"

[Mislagnissa]

Yeah, SC works better as an EVENT DRIVEN narrative, and not a character Driven one, there should've been scores of different characters that you don't see much of in each episode but gets more spotlight in some side campaigns.

also I think showcasing the whole war IS feasible, through various side stories, and parallel stories that Video games just don't like to portray so much anymore.

Lastly, I think its totally possible for games and especially RTS to have great stories, its just that the devs of these products either have no confidence in their ability to tell stories or fall into the trappings of "RTS' don't have good stories usually, so we shouldn't try"

I can agree with that. Any suggestions on what plots we would tell? I’m tired of criticizing Starcraft and would like to do some constructive brainstorming or something.

[Mislagnissa]

I’m on the unofficial SCLegacy discord if anybody wants to real time chat: https://discord.gg/CyUvEBy

[Turalyon]

The WC3 retcons completely reimagined the universe until its themes were unrecognizable. The WC1/WC2 universes were fairly vague and mysterious, but as a result felt full of story possibilities.

These two statements don't correlate. If WC1/2 had nothing to them (being "fairly vague and mysterious" as you say), then Wc3 didn't "completely reimagine" anything. The Wc1/2 "story" was nothing more than a perfunctory exposition dump before the gameplay started (not that I mind then or now for that matter). If anything Wc3 gave the IP a story/narrative that the previous entries distinctly lacked (subjective like/dislike of what it entailed being irrelevant).


WC3 made the universe feel much smaller and imposed a rather childish and inconsistent view of morality on the setting.

This is a highly subjective and debatable opinion since the WC3 universe was technically/objectively larger as it went beyond just "humans and orcs fighting each other just because". The morality of Warcraft has always remained the same: good vs evil and to say otherwise is blatant falsehood. The "inconsistency" that you perceive in Wc3 is that some humans are actually evil now (Arthas, Kel'Thuzad) and some orcs are good (Thrall). Some people will call that an extra layer of complexity. :p


Based on what little we know of WC3’s development, it was originally intended to be closer in tone to the gritty military narrative of WC1/WC2 before Metzen turned it into a schlocky Tolkien clone (no offense to Tolkien).

You sure love conjecture to fuel your cognitive bias and pass it off as objective truth, don't you? Not everything has to be a gritty military narrative, nor did Wc1/Wc2 ever feel that way either. It was always a basic good (humans) vs evil (orcs) fantasy setup and nothing more.


This is fiction. You could easily contrive a bunch of alternative explanations, like the zerg discovering protoss ruins and learning about their advancement from a surviving library cache. If the xel’naga could develop protogenetics science by themselves, then another race like the zerg should be able to do the same.

Having the Protoss take the Xel'Naga role yet retain their martial expertise (which the Xel'Naga did not have) makes the Protoss even more OP than was implied in what we actually got. It would be ludicrous to conceive the nascent Zerg (let alone Terrans) would ever stand a chance against them in this scenario. It would also be contrived to have a Protoss civil war to conveniently cripple them enough to allow the Zerg to somehow develop into a power that would become and equal threat to them when they are aware of each other from the start. The Zerg are powerful against the Protoss because they had the element of surprise and time to develop themselves (by spreading across the galaxy) before confronting them - none of which can be used in your scenario. Your scenario would require even more contrivance to justify why the Zerg would ever be a threat and why the Protoss couldn't just snuff them out at the earliest opportunity.


That’s why I specified First Age. As in, the Eon War destroyed their old civilization and the current civilization has not yet reached the same level of advancement.

Going the classic elven/WH40K Eldar route I see?

[Mislagnissa]

Thank you for correcting me.

Anyway, does anyone want to take me up on that offer? It still stands.

[Turalyon]

Thank you for correcting me.

Your condescension is appreciated! :D

[Mislagnissa]

Okay, I will start.

I think the Confederacy was sadly underutilized. The Dominion was the same thing, except with Mengsk's face tacked on. I think the Old Families offer far more opportunity for politics. Remember, the Mengsks were an Old Family: they and their Sons of Korhal lackeys were just as corrupt and evil as all the rest, depending on how charitable you want to be to the terrans.

But the Old Families don't need to be universally evil. I had this idea that the Magistrate of Mar Sara could make different decisions if Tassadar had instead offered an alliance, removing the need to consort with the evil Sons of Korhal. Rather than thoughtlessly overthrow the Confederacy and leave dangerous power vacuums, maybe try to reform undesirable elements. Like Duke irresponsibly using the fringe worlds as testing labs.

Treat the Confederacy as, I don't know, an actual confederation of colonies?

Maybe bring in the UED earlier and depict them as more heroic than the space nazis they're supposedly supposed to be (but are never actually shown to be). Maybe they arrived instead to damper the volatile politics of Koprulu because it endangers the bottom line? We can ignore the whole lost colony bit because was retconned in nonsense anyway, since even Blizz seems to forget it.

Maybe, I don't know, have the zerg invade Earth? The protoss attack Tau Ceti?

The possibilities are endless.

[Turalyon]

Maybe bring in the UED earlier and depict them as more heroic than the space nazis they're supposedly supposed to be (but are never actually shown to be). Maybe they arrived instead to damper the volatile politics of Koprulu because it endangers the bottom line? We can ignore the whole lost colony bit because was retconned in nonsense anyway, since even Blizz seems to forget it.

Just cos we're spitballing here, how about the idea of doing away with K-sector Terrans altogether - just have the UED and the K-sector Terran factions just be a part/faction of the UED? Or, if you must have that element of "lone weak humans amidst two powerful alien races" thing, maybe have the K-sector Terrans be eventually and completely obliterated and the UED just replace/sub-in for the Terran presence? It would do away with the issue of Terrans being traditionally seen as weak/incapable of going toe-to-toe with the other two without too much artifice. Even if the UED do come later in the picture, we could explain their more highly advanced/powerful presence due to time dilation effects of the K-sector Terrans maybe?

The UED are depicted as fascistic largely due to their origins. The UPL were successful fascists in that time and so it's a logical extension from that I suppose. Besides, not all fascistic societies have to depicted as the "evil Nazi" stereotype where they do out-and-out "evil things". Just look at the Starship Troopers film, it's a satire of fascism (often mistaken as a celebration) and how "attractive" it can be.

[Mislagnissa]

Just cos we're spitballing here, how about the idea of doing away with K-sector Terrans altogether - just have the UED and the K-sector Terran factions just be a part/faction of the UED?
That was actually the case back in the 1996 pitch (https://web.archive.org/web/19961030105510/http://blizzard.com:80/star/star.htm) for the story.


Or, if you must have that element of "lone weak humans amidst two powerful alien races" thing, maybe have the K-sector Terrans be eventually and completely obliterated and the UED just replace/sub-in for the Terran presence? It would do away with the issue of Terrans being traditionally seen as weak/incapable of going toe-to-toe with the other two without too much artifice.Alternately, maybe the terrans present greater challenge (https://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/starcraft-source-thread.230914/) than the zerg and protoss expected. If you're willing to diverge even further from the already flimsy canon, then you could posit that psychic powers are about as expansive as they are in Dungeons & Dragons (https://www.d20srd.org/indexes/psionicPowerList.htm). In other words, x-men.

Oh, and cyberpunk shenanigans too. You once suggested the zerg could learn from non-biological sciences.


Even if the UED do come later in the picture, we could explain their more highly advanced/powerful presence due to time dilation effects of the K-sector Terrans maybe?Alternately, maybe they don't have arbitrarily infinite capabilities? One of the plots that Blizz writers pitched for SC2 was that the zerg would destroy Earth, which wouldn't work if the UED was so powerful. Not that Blizz can ever stay consistent, but rarely they make decisions that aren't bad.


The UED are depicted as fascistic largely due to their origins. The UPL were successful fascists in that time and so it's a logical extension from that I suppose. Besides, not all fascistic societies have to depicted as the "evil Nazi" stereotype where they do out-and-out "evil things". Just look at the Starship Troopers film, it's a satire of fascism (often mistaken as a celebration) and how "attractive" it can be.Yes, but BW tried to have us believe they still practiced their technophobic eugenics when they clearly don't. Not to mention that Blizz has retconned so much that I doubt the manual backstory is remotely accurate anymore.

We can jettison the backstory about the UPL being nazis and the ATLAS being refugees. I don't think it's necessary.

I think that we can work with Koprulu being a deliberate founding by the human stellar nations, with their diverse local nations being a result of a decentralized governing system. Earth only cares about getting the rich mineral resources of Koprulu, not who actually does the mining. At least until whatever the Confederacy or whoever did that resulted in the UED fleet going to Koprulu, justifiably or not.

Or something like that. I'm tired at the moment. Good day.

[Turalyon]

That was actually the case back in the 1996 pitch (https://web.archive.org/web/19961030105510/http://blizzard.com:80/star/star.htm) for the story.

Alternately, maybe the terrans present greater challenge (https://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/starcraft-source-thread.230914/) than the zerg and protoss expected.

I'll take that as an approval of the idea? The Terrans need to be scaled up big time in order to pose any challenge to the Protoss and Zerg or to "realistically" maintain a three-way for any period of time greater than a few months.


If you're willing to diverge even further from the already flimsy canon, then you could posit that psychic powers are about as expansive as they are in Dungeons & Dragons (https://www.d20srd.org/indexes/psionicPowerList.htm). In other words, x-men.

Oh, and cyberpunk shenanigans too. You once suggested the zerg could learn from non-biological sciences.

Sure, why not? I don't mind, it's your fanfiction.


Alternately, maybe they don't have arbitrarily infinite capabilities?

Eh, the Protoss have the capacity for arbitrarily infinite capabilities already and the Zerg are arbitrarily powerful, so why not the case for the Terrans?


Yes, but BW tried to have us believe they still practiced their technophobic eugenics when they clearly don't.

I don't exactly recall where this in particular was evident in BW, but ok?


I think that we can work with Koprulu being a deliberate founding by the human stellar nations, with their diverse local nations being a result of a decentralized governing system. Earth only cares about getting the rich mineral resources of Koprulu, not who actually does the mining. At least until whatever the Confederacy or whoever did that resulted in the UED fleet going to Koprulu, justifiably or not.

It's serviceable I suppose but the Terrans here seem to lack a bit of "pizazz" with this background.

[Mislagnissa]

The UED secretly spying on Koprulu for centuries is a silly retcon. You might as well say that Earth and Koprulu reestablished contact after the nazis were overthrown and engaged in trade.

[Turalyon]

^ Well, given that my suggestion essentially nullifies the need for the "UED" (or rather more precisely referred to as "Earth/Greater Terran presence") to spy on the K-sector Terrans because they were all the same to begin with, that shouldn't be problem.

[Mislagnissa]

Anyway, do we have any suggestions for specific plots?