[News]Premium Arcade maps now a reality

[sandwich_bird]

https://starcraft2.com/en-us/news/21700687

Surprising that they would release such a thing now. I wouldn't think that much profit could be made from this so far in SC2's life cycle. This makes me think that it might be an experiment for Warcraft 4 (which I suspect is in development). A while back, I suggested that the Bnet platform could be used as a marketplace for custom maps similar to steam. This could not be easily done with starcraft 2 but a new game could be designed from the start to allow this.

Then again, I'm always wrong in my Blizz business prediction so... maybe the market for this is much stronger than it seems.

[Mislagnissa]

There is no reason why SC2 could not be turned into a long-term platform. Blizzard has the source code to make any modifications and modern computers have reached a point of diminishing returns with regards to graphics.

I think a remaster of WC3 is more likely. With WC4 you run into the problem of whether to account for all the retcons made since WC3 came out. The setting has become unrecognizable and there would be no way for new or returning players to keep up with everything. Then again, Warcraft canonically has time travel so it could be an alternate timeline that follows right after the story of WC3 in a completely different direction.

[sandwich_bird]

There is no reason why SC2 could not be turned into a long-term platform. Blizzard has the source code to make any modifications and modern computers have reached a point of diminishing returns with regards to graphics.

Every Blizzard game is a long term platform but that's not the point. Imagine you open the bnet app, and alongside wow, sc2, overwatch, you have an additional section where you can launch standalone custom games made from a map editor. This is what I'm thinking. The sc2 engine is not made to function this way. For one, it's not made to be portable like that. Plus, I wouldn't want the network code of sc2 to be used anyways because it's not well suited for various game types. It's great for RTS but anything else would suffer from the design. See for example Heroes of the storm.

Of course they have access to the source and you can bet that they'll re-use parts of it. But, chances are, it would make a lot more sense to start with a different architecture for something like that.


I think a remaster of WC3 is more likely. With WC4 you run into the problem of whether to account for all the retcons made since WC3 came out. The setting has become unrecognizable and there would be no way for new or returning players to keep up with everything. Then again, Warcraft canonically has time travel so it could be an alternate timeline that follows right after the story of WC3 in a completely different direction.

A wc3 is very likely but it can exist alongside WC4 and probably will. Wouldn't be the same team doing either. My guess (and again, I'm always wrong about this) is that they'll release a WC3 remaster first to build some hype and gauge the demand for WC4.

Regarding the story, it's mostly irrelevant to business decisions so I would not call this a problem. If there's a demand, it doesn't matter what they need to retcon and change to fit whatever lore is there. They'll make it happen. It might even be story-less honestly. Personally, I'd re-tell the big story points of WoW in RTS form. Either that or reboot it.

[KaiserStratosTygo]

Dumbest shit i've heard. I thought they dropped this shit years ago.

This is not going to end well.

[TheEconomist]

Strange. This is something that should've been done yeeaars ago if it were to be done. But, maybe I'm crazy, maybe I've gotten soft and forgotten the value of money, but, having no idea how much Ark Star costs, I might just buy the thing. I love tactical turn-based games, and a StarCraft one would be great.

I hope the actual designers/modders get most of the profit and Blizzard doesn't take the lion share... but who am I kidding?

Unless, of course, there's better, free alternatives, which there probably are. Which I think is going to be another problem for all of these maps. Free versions might be too good relative to them or even better.

*This is coming from a guy who has yet to buy any Co-op packages

[Gradius]

Hopefully this revitalizes the campaign scene. Would be cool to see more high quality campaigns with an actual budget. Unfortunately mine and others motivations has died off.

Im with Econ though, why would I buy any arcade game when there’s free alternatives? And I’ve bought a bunch of co op packs, but this doesn’t sound appealing whatsoever.

[sandwich_bird]

why would I buy any arcade game when there’s free alternatives?

That's the real problem. There's already an immense pool of custom games to compete with any new premium one. Unless some of these become premium but then, this won't go well with the community. Reminds me of when Skyrim started having paid mods. Huge backlash and the feature was removed... until it came back last year and seems to be generally accepted now.

Anyways, paid user created content is a huge Pandora's box. What if someone grabs assets of a premium map and put it in a free map? Or just straight up copy it? Sell it as his own? What about someone selling a map that infringe someone's copyright (dbz all sagas for example)? What if you pay for a map and it's buggy? Can you get a refund? It's a really hard thing to manage honestly. There's a lot of shitty people out there and you can bet that if there's a $ to be made, they'll screw anyone over. I just hope they'll have strong quality control in place.

[KaiserStratosTygo]

"Unless, of course, there's better, free alternatives, which there probably are. Which I think is going to be another problem for all of these maps. Free versions might be too good relative to them or even better."


This is the biggest reason for why this won't work.


"Hopefully this revitalizes the campaign scene. Would be cool to see more high quality campaigns with an actual budget. Unfortunately mine and others motivations has died off."

I don't see that happening, to be really honest, with my psychic powers I see a great many failed projects, half done projects, rushed projects and projects that went in totally different directions than initially advertised. Controversy city.

[TheEconomist]

On the bright side, the Arcade map scene can't get any worse ... can it?

[Mislagnissa]

That's the real problem. There's already an immense pool of custom games to compete with any new premium one. Unless some of these become premium but then, this won't go well with the community. Reminds me of when Skyrim started having paid mods. Huge backlash and the feature was removed... until it came back last year and seems to be generally accepted now.

Anyways, paid user created content is a huge Pandora's box. What if someone grabs assets of a premium map and put it in a free map? Or just straight up copy it? Sell it as his own? What about someone selling a map that infringe someone's copyright (dbz all sagas for example)? What if you pay for a map and it's buggy? Can you get a refund? It's a really hard thing to manage honestly. There's a lot of shitty people out there and you can bet that if there's a $ to be made, they'll screw anyone over. I just hope they'll have strong quality control in place.

Of course.

The infringement of somebody else's IP is going to be a huge problem. Any mod which used assets made by more than one person will run right into the problem of whether everyone who contributed is properly compensated and all the rights are properly negotiated. For example, Black Mesa, the official remake of Half-Life 1 is being made by an independent modders under license from Valve.

Speaking of which, the Mass Recall or Reawakening mods would probably need to be rebranded to indicate they are fanfiction if they tried to get published this way (assuming the aforementioned hoops are solved). They do not incorporate the events of the Queen of Blades novel, as this would require rewriting most of episodes 2 and 3. Reawakening incorporated plot points from Liberty's Crusade, not that this really made much of a difference.

A remake of the first six starcraft campaigns would probably undergo extensive rewrites to match the retcons and to fill the numerous plot holes in BW, given how The Story So Far segments were written. That recap used the events of Queen of Blades and glossed over the Brood War plot holes. The zerg campaign especially would need to be adjusted given the Amon retcon.

I should probably talk about a potential SC1 remake in another thread, shouldn't I?

[KaiserStratosTygo]

On the bright side, the Arcade map scene can't get any worse ... can it?

good point LMAO

[Turalyon]

Anyways, paid user created content is a huge Pandora's box. What if someone grabs assets of a premium map and put it in a free map? Or just straight up copy it? Sell it as his own? What about someone selling a map that infringe someone's copyright (dbz all sagas for example)? What if you pay for a map and it's buggy? Can you get a refund? It's a really hard thing to manage honestly. There's a lot of shitty people out there and you can bet that if there's a $ to be made, they'll screw anyone over. I just hope they'll have strong quality control in place.

It'll be interesting how they manage this particular aspect. I'm going to assume that those who Blizz will pay for the user created content would vet them and make sure there are no infringements on other properties before even considering it. I'm sure they'll also reinforce that anything that is created/released on it is still technically their property as well as to avoid issues of creators rights.

As for refunds, well, I presume they'd treat it like DLC where if you've used it for a certain a period of time, you're shit outta luck. I don't know Blizz's history when it comes to giving refunds or how difficult it would be but I'd imagine that given that most of their content is actually already there and what you're actually paying for is to unlock the thing, I'm not sure Blizz would really want to do refunds cos it'd be more work for them to undo any changes. It'll be interesting to see because you can get XP from playing Blizz-published Arcade maps (which these will be), so I'm sure they'll use that as the metric as to whether or not it'd be refundable. Even if the XP was gained elsewhere and you didn't touch the new paid for Arcade map, they can still consider the content being used and may not be able to refund it.

[Nolanstar]

Okay, this coming from blizzard. They specifically contacted the mapmakers and worked out something before the maps were released based on watching their progress, that seems to be what they are doing. So its unlikely its going to be an unregulated market, more so vying between us mappers trying to get our stuff noticed first...

[TheEconomist]

Anyone tried Ark Star? Starting to get a tactics itch. Was going to play something like Disgaea, but maybe this is what I need :D

[Sheliek]

Ark Star's fun but shorter than I expected. Great interface work, impressive design over all. If a 3-5 hour experience is worth 5 bucks to you, give it a shot.

EDIT: The Scanalyze ability has fun little messages depending on what enemy you target with it, so even if knowing enemy HP doesn't seem worth it, the 'what is this unit thinking' messages can be pretty humourous.

[TheEconomist]

If a 3-5 hour experience is worth 5 bucks to you, give it a shot.

I might consider it. But since Disgaea is $6 and over 1000 hours of content I'll have to think about it.

Although I do loves me some Zeratul tactics.

[Sheliek]

It's not Zeratul, as cool as that would be. I actually might pilfer the custom DT model it uses if Blizzard won't nuke me for doing so.

[TheEconomist]

Of course its not. Just meant the model. If it was actually Zeratul, I'd probably just be sad.