Protoss photosynthesis is ridiculous

[Mislagnissa]

So the Field Manual basically says that Protoss eat sunlight and sweat out feces. This is, in a word, ridiculous.

The only reason Protoss "eat sunlight" is because of a random Q&A. A questioner asked a moderator how the Protoss eat when they have no mouths, and the mod responded that the Protoss eat sunlight because he didn't take biology in high school. Since then everyone assumed that was the case, but it was actually a retcon.

The original SC1 manual stated that the Protoss were hunters and evolved their telepathy to better coordinate during hunting. So the Protoss were originally perceived as carnivores. Several custom campaigns dating to the early 2000s ran with this and mention that the Protoss hunt bengalas for their meat and there are food shortages in the aftermath of the Zerg invasion, so the photosynthesis explanation was not believed back then.

Sweating out feces is inefficient and silly. Won't it get everywhere? Do Protoss make their clothes out of diapers and toilet paper?

I think the huge featureless chins are silly looking, not cool at all. It wasn't really obvious in the low-res SC1 portraits, but SC2's and SCR's emphasis makes them look absurd. Especially the dark templar wearing veils when there's no point. Even the low-res SC1 portraits tried to change things up by including hints of facial features like noses and gills or something, so kudos to the modelers for trying.

[Gradius]

It’s actually from the DT saga.

[Nissa]

No, I remember some people before the "DT" saga mentioning photosynthesis. It was around before SC2 era retcons.

On the other hand, I don't really see how "it's absurd" is really that much of an argument. So is faster than light travel, but Star Trek explains that pretty well. I always figured the Xel'Naga figured out how to mess with plant biology and imbue the Protoss with it. And I've always figured that before the Xel'Naga messed with them, the Protoss were what we consider more "normal" creatures, in that they did hunt and eat. They're just changed now, and just because we don't necessarily understand them, doesn't mean they don't make their own kind of sense. Just in the same way we don't really understand how, say, a waterbear lives in the void of space.

[Turalyon]

On the other hand, I don't really see how "it's absurd" is really that much of an argument.

Yeah, it's not as if it's fiction or anything, right? :p;)

[sandwich_bird]

It wasn't really obvious in the low-res SC1 portraits

It's obvious from the artwork in that same manual that you are referencing before that the Protoss didn't have mouths. It's also obvious from higher-res post-mission splash screen art or the campaign mission select zealot.


A questioner asked a moderator how the Protoss eat when they have no mouths, and the mod responded that the Protoss eat sunlight because he didn't take biology in high school.

I also didn't take that alien biology class in high school. Guess I missed out... The protoss were hunters aeons ago. In the mean time, they've been enhanced by the xel naga and achieved scientific supremacy. Is it really that hard to believe that they've modified their own biology to work off of sunlight?


I think the huge featureless chins are silly looking, not cool at all. It wasn't really obvious in the low-res SC1 portraits, but SC2's and SCR's emphasis makes them look absurd. Especially the dark templar wearing veils when there's no point. Even the low-res SC1 portraits tried to change things up by including hints of facial features like noses and gills or something, so kudos to the modelers for trying.

I know where this is going, and, personally, what I would find silly would be hidden mouths. Maybe if you find a cool depiction of it I'd be down but as of right now, I don't see any way that this could look cool.

The veils are stylistic. They don't have to make sense.

[Gradius]

No, I remember some people before the "DT" saga mentioning photosynthesis. It was around before SC2 era retcons.
So were a dozen other fan theories. It was made official in the DT saga though.



The original SC1 manual stated that the Protoss were hunters and evolved their telepathy to better coordinate during hunting. So the Protoss were originally perceived as carnivores. Several custom campaigns dating to the early 2000s ran with this and mention that the Protoss hunt bengalas for their meat and there are food shortages in the aftermath of the Zerg invasion, so the photosynthesis explanation was not believed back then.
The photosynthesis explanation was not believed because they already had an energy source (the khala and void).

However, the protoss do not have a mouth or hidden mouths. That is stupid... Just drop it.


Sweating out feces is inefficient and silly. Won't it get everywhere? Do Protoss make their clothes out of diapers and toilet paper?
Never had sweat or body odor in your life before?


I think the huge featureless chins are silly looking, not cool at all. It wasn't really obvious in the low-res SC1 portraits, but SC2's and SCR's emphasis makes them look absurd. Especially the dark templar wearing veils when there's no point. Even the low-res SC1 portraits tried to change things up by including hints of facial features like noses and gills or something, so kudos to the modelers for trying.
Incorrect. The mouthless chins are literally the coolest thing about the protoss.


It's obvious from the artwork in that same manual that you are referencing before that the Protoss didn't have mouths. It's also obvious from higher-res post-mission splash screen art or the campaign mission select zealot.
Seriously. Whoever made a campaign where protoss ingest food must not have actually played the game.

[Turalyon]

However, the protoss do not have a mouth or hidden mouths. That is stupid... Just drop it.

Well, Protoss could've had a mouth at some point along their evolutionary path because they do seem to have vestigial nipples...

[Gradius]

Well, Protoss could've had a mouth at some point along their evolutionary path because they do seem to have vestigial nipples...
The fact that they have a jawline must mean they had a mouth at some point.

[Mislagnissa]

It's obvious from the artwork in that same manual that you are referencing before that the Protoss didn't have mouths. It's also obvious from higher-res post-mission splash screen art or the campaign mission select zealot.



I also didn't take that alien biology class in high school. Guess I missed out... The protoss were hunters aeons ago. In the mean time, they've been enhanced by the xel naga and achieved scientific supremacy. Is it really that hard to believe that they've modified their own biology to work off of sunlight? There is no way to infer that Protoss lost their mouths and became photosynthetic from reading the manual. The only way to infer that Protoss are photosynthetic is by seeing their artwork, not reading the manual, and not knowing that photosynthesis is not practical for powering animal metabolisms.

It is physically impossible (https://worldbuilding.stackexchange.com/questions/2469/why-arent-animals-photosynthetic) for animals like the Protoss to survive on photosynthesis. Even with 100% efficiency, which is physically impossible btw as the loss is due to metabolic processes and not just the limited absorption of light, they still do not have enough surface area to absorb enough energy from sunlight to power their metabolisms. Sunlight simply does not have enough energy density in that small a space.

However, if that is not sufficient to convince you, then I will use an explanation based solely on the lore.

Firstly, the xel'naga were not that advanced, as shown by the manual explicitly stating they were surprised by the Zerg's skill at genetic engineering. This would suggest that xel'naga were not capable of the same morphological alterations that zerg made. The zerg also gained the xel'naga's knowledge and skill by eating them. Since the zerg are canonically better genetic engineers than the xel'naga and have all their knowledge and skill, then it would stand to reason they would make themselves photosynthetic if it was a viable option. Since they have not, it stands to reason that the xel'naga were either not capable of this or that it is not viable to make that alteration. But you could argue that creep utilizes biological photovoltaic cells, since it is grey and has a huge surface area to catch sunlight.

Secondly, the photosynthesis retcon was part of the overall wimpifying of the Protoss. In the SC1 manual the protoss were nearly physically perfect and could survive in almost any environment stark naked, which was the original definition of purity of form. Shakuras was darker than Aiur, but the nerazim were so wimpy that they need to genetically alter themselves to survive on moonlight. In the DT novels they needed to wear animal skins to avoid freezing to death in tropical jungles. Hardly pure of form, they are actually inferior to humans in every way.

Thirdly, protoss portraits breathe while idle and some of them wear gas masks. This would only make sense if they had lungs and breathed through their face, even though the Field Manual explains they have no lungs or orifices.

Fourthly, it is not like the art direction and lore has not been wildly inconsistent on many other occasions. The zealot in the SC1 Protoss mission success screen has a cone head, no apparent nerve cords, and freakishly long fingers. Compare that to the SCR artwork, which is supposed to represent the most recent conception of Protoss anatomy. Artanis varies wildly in appearance across the games and even within SCR his 3D model and 2D portrait look completely different. Zeratul has nipples only in some of his appearances, but not others.

Fifthly, the fluff constantly contradicts itself and just plain makes no sense much of the time. The Field Manual explicitly states that Protoss have no orifices whatsoever. Whatever definition of "orifice" it is using is suspect, since the Protoss have eye sockets would should qualify as orifices. The microscopic pores they supposedly use for eating/shitting should also qualify as orifices. The authorship is just scientifically illiterate despite supposedly being written by actual scientists.


I know where this is going, and, personally, what I would find silly would be hidden mouths. Maybe if you find a cool depiction of it I'd be down but as of right now, I don't see any way that this could look cool. Here are some examples of what I mean:


"gills": https://www.artstation.com/artwork/protoss In that image a nerazim is presented as having folds of skin on their face, presumably gills and/or facial muscles that serve a role in body language.
"mouths": https://archerblack.deviantart.com/art/Wraith-Feeding-Organ-anatomy-194769147 This is what I imagine Protoss mouths would actually work like, or something like it.
skull: https://kaleblechowski.deviantart.com/art/Skull-377073217 I prefer a skull design like this simply because Metzen's design is too human-like, since it is literally just a rip off of eldar masks in 40k. It actually fits pretty well with the most recent designs where Protoss seemingly have elongated skulls with ridges.
head organs: https://kaleblechowski.deviantart.com/art/R-ha-Communication-Organs-406138344 Ditto. The ability to vocalize can help solve any number of minor plot holes involving communications, such as how Protoss words could be pronounced by human mouths or the difference between telepathy and khala (if you are constantly reading the thoughts/emotions of those around you and vice versa through telepathy, that is functionally no different to how the khala was described).




The veils are stylistic. They don't have to make sense.
That is stupid and makes the nerazim look like lame posers. Not that I expected any different from Blizzard.

In world building with verisimilitude and believably, the veils would have relevance to their culture and physiology. Veils are worn to veil things, so it stands to reason that in any vaguely realistic world building the nerazim wear veils to conceal their feelings. This leads to the conclusion that Protoss must have some kind of body language, which at least partly relies on facial muscles below the eyes. From there, you come to the conclusion that their telepathy and khala are not the only way they communicate and may in fact cloud their communication compared to speaking face-to-face.




The photosynthesis explanation was not believed because they already had an energy source (the khala and void).There was no implication that the Protoss are sustained by space magic or otherwise autotrophic. See, the different evolutionary pressures on autotrophs and heterotrophs mean that it is impossible for autotrophs to maintain complex nervous systems. If the Protoss evolved from autotrophs, then they would have lost their photosynthesis to become more energy-intensive heterotrophs. If the Protoss evolved from heterotrophs into autotrophs, then they would lose their organs and muscles and so forth because those are not efficient for autotrophs to have. Their bodies should deteriorate until they are nothing more than mindless plants attached to their pylons and the remnants of their civilization.

Protoss cannot be both autotrophic and animals with a civilization. It simply is not feasible.


However, the protoss do not have a mouth or hidden mouths. That is stupid... Just drop it.You sound like I do when I get into a tizzy about people disagreeing with me when I am really just being paranoid. Why is it stupid? That feels awfully arbitrary. I mean, before the retcons everybody seemed perfectly happy to assume the protoss had mouths somewhere else, or IDK tiny mouths in their skin or something.


Never had sweat or body odor in your life before?That's not remotely comparable. Sweating a few pounds of diarrhea every day would be unimaginably horrific, like "punishment in hell" horrific.


Incorrect. The mouthless chins are literally the coolest thing about the protoss.My response: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWdd6_ZxX8c

Seriously, I think they look silly. From an artistic perspective those faces are a lopsided waste of space. The jawline needs facial features of some kind, or the eyes need to be moved to the center of the face, or the entire chin needs to be removed.

The Protoss faces are clearly based on the masks worn by Eldar in Warhammer 40,000. From an alien world building perspective their overall design looks terrible and amateur.


Seriously. Whoever made a campaign where protoss ingest food must not have actually played the game. There is nothing in the lore to suggest the Protoss do not eat prior to the photosynthesis retcon. The addition of breasts and nipples in SC2 would suggest that the writers cannot keep the facts straight.

The addition of the bengalas as apparently evolutionary relatives of the protoss, since they explode into blue fire upon death, suggests that the writers/artists were not trying for consistently. The bengalas looks like an Earth panther with a clear mouth, so it could not possibly be related to the Protoss since they do not share a similar body plan like any sensible alien ecology would.


Well, Protoss could've had a mouth at some point along their evolutionary path because they do seem to have vestigial nipples...

The fact that they have a jawline must mean they had a mouth at some point.
Evolution, especially to the point of completely changing the basic body plan, takes many tens of millions of years. The idea that the protoss had a hunter gatherer society many tens of millions of years ago, given their apparent progress since then, is absurd on its face. If they underwent such a change, it is the sort of thing you would expect the manual to mention, but not! We are supposed to believe that the seemingly mouthless Protoss are carnivorous hunters, because quite honestly nothing else makes as much sense as that.

Not only that, as depicted in SC2 female protoss have breasts and wide birthing hips. I would attribute this to a lack of thought going into the design or the artists having no idea what they were doing.

Seriously, one of the most common complaints leveled at LotV by non-lore fans is that the Protoss faces and voices are terrible. The faces are dead-eyed and empty, the voices have no emotion behind them, the protoss never emote, the protoss are generally bland, yadda yadda. It really frustrates me because I always liked the Protoss as they were originally presented as a counterpoint to the typical portrayal of ancient races as declining Tolkien elf wannabes.

[Nissa]

Uh, Mislag, you do remember that the Xel'Naga altered the Protoss, right? They're obviously the ones that arranged for the Protoss to feed from sunlight. After all, the Protoss weren't created by the Xel'Naga, just changed into their current form.

[Visions of Khas]

Pre-SCII, I always thought the primitive protoss absorbed the blood of their prey and/or mashed the meat into a paste.

To be fair, bamboo is a super grass that grows at a prodigious rate with only sun, water, and a little bit of soil, and is almost impossible to kill ( trust me, I've tried). But that system of course wouldn't supply the requisite energy to fuel a creature like that. In my mind, I always considered the protoss capable of absorbing ALL forms of ambient electromagnetic radiation. There are bacteria and fungus that do this. Hell, even animals like the litoral green sea slug and some species of wasp live off photosynthesis.

[Gradius]

Uh, Mislag, you do remember that the Xel'Naga altered the Protoss, right? They're obviously the ones that arranged for the Protoss to feed from sunlight. After all, the Protoss weren't created by the Xel'Naga, just changed into their current form.
Yeah, they’re magical aliens. The Zerg are impossible via standard biology too.

[Visions of Khas]

The Zerg are impossible via standard biology too.

Welll... the zerg rely heavily on horizontal gene transfer, which takes components of the genome of separate species and splices them together. To again cite the green sea slug (https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/02/150203155925.htm), this is something that happens in the real world.

[Gradius]

It happens on Earth because we have a common ancestor but it’s not really feasible for alien species that might use a completely genetic material.

[Visions of Khas]

It happens on Earth because we have a common ancestor but it’s not really feasible for alien species that might use a completely genetic material.

Eh, maybe. Of course Blizzard has created a universe where everything is carbon-based life that functions with typical terrestrial amino acid chains and DNA-based genome with a shared chirality. Of course, basically every scifi franchise is guilty of that, with the exception of Mass Effect and a few others.

But our building blocks are abundant through out the universe, so who's to say what the real level of variation would be?

[Gradius]

At best I think you can say the Xel’Naga ran into all those species and made them compatible, but they were only active in the k sector and on Zerus.

[Mislagnissa]

Uh, Mislag, you do remember that the Xel'Naga altered the Protoss, right? They're obviously the ones that arranged for the Protoss to feed from sunlight. After all, the Protoss weren't created by the Xel'Naga, just changed into their current form.

I already addressed in my last post. Firstly, Protoss could not derive sufficient energy from photosynthesis to survive even at an impossible 100% efficiency. Secondly, the xel'naga clearly did not have the ability to do that while the Zerg clearly can but do not. Thirdly, the games contradict themselves many times about this and have no understanding of even the most basic real science.

EDIT: Fourthly, if Protoss had or nearly had purity of form on their own as hunters, then it makes no sense for the xel'naga to fundamentally alter said form by removing their mouths and making them autotrophs. In fact, their psychic link is (weakly) implied to be part of what gives them (potential for) purity of form.

Here is a quote of the relevant section of my post:


There is no way to infer that Protoss lost their mouths and became photosynthetic from reading the manual. The only way to infer that Protoss are photosynthetic is by seeing their artwork, not reading the manual, and not knowing that photosynthesis is not practical for powering animal metabolisms.

It is physically impossible (https://worldbuilding.stackexchange.com/questions/2469/why-arent-animals-photosynthetic) for animals like the Protoss to survive on photosynthesis. Even with 100% efficiency, which is physically impossible btw as the loss is due to metabolic processes and not just the limited absorption of light, they still do not have enough surface area to absorb enough energy from sunlight to power their metabolisms. Sunlight simply does not have enough energy density in that small a space.

However, if that is not sufficient to convince you, then I will use an explanation based solely on the lore.

Firstly, the xel'naga were not that advanced, as shown by the manual explicitly stating they were surprised by the Zerg's skill at genetic engineering. This would suggest that xel'naga were not capable of the same morphological alterations that zerg made. The zerg also gained the xel'naga's knowledge and skill by eating them. Since the zerg are canonically better genetic engineers than the xel'naga and have all their knowledge and skill, then it would stand to reason they would make themselves photosynthetic if it was a viable option. Since they have not, it stands to reason that the xel'naga were either not capable of this or that it is not viable to make that alteration. But you could argue that creep utilizes biological photovoltaic cells, since it is grey and has a huge surface area to catch sunlight.

Secondly, the photosynthesis retcon was part of the overall wimpifying of the Protoss. In the SC1 manual the protoss were nearly physically perfect and could survive in almost any environment stark naked, which was the original definition of purity of form. Shakuras was darker than Aiur, but the nerazim were so wimpy that they need to genetically alter themselves to survive on moonlight. In the DT novels they needed to wear animal skins to avoid freezing to death in tropical jungles. Hardly pure of form, they are actually inferior to humans in every way.

Thirdly, protoss portraits breathe while idle and some of them wear gas masks. This would only make sense if they had lungs and breathed through their face, even though the Field Manual explains they have no lungs or orifices.

Fourthly, it is not like the art direction and lore has not been wildly inconsistent on many other occasions. The zealot in the SC1 Protoss mission success screen has a cone head, no apparent nerve cords, and freakishly long fingers. Compare that to the SCR artwork, which is supposed to represent the most recent conception of Protoss anatomy. Artanis varies wildly in appearance across the games and even within SCR his 3D model and 2D portrait look completely different. Zeratul has nipples only in some of his appearances, but not others.

Fifthly, the fluff constantly contradicts itself and just plain makes no sense much of the time. The Field Manual explicitly states that Protoss have no orifices whatsoever. Whatever definition of "orifice" it is using is suspect, since the Protoss have eye sockets would should qualify as orifices. The microscopic pores they supposedly use for eating/shitting should also qualify as orifices. The authorship is just scientifically illiterate despite supposedly being written by actual scientists.


Pre-SCII, I always thought the primitive protoss absorbed the blood of their prey and/or mashed the meat into a paste. I figured the Protoss had mouths in their hands and feet. If that was not exotic enough, then I figured that digestion occurs outside their body like in arachnids and antlions and they drain the digested innards of their prey. Metzen's first idea for Starcraft was literally "space vampires" before everyone else talked him out of it (and for good reason, yeesh!), but I thought it would be a nice in-joke/reference.

Here are some pictures of what I mean:

https://archerblack.deviantart.com/art/Wraith-Feeding-Organ-anatomy-194769147
https://christopher-stoll.deviantart.com/art/Centaur-Foot-Anatomy-sketch-542836386




To be fair, bamboo is a super grass that grows at a prodigious rate with only sun, water, and a little bit of soil, and is almost impossible to kill ( trust me, I've tried). But that system of course wouldn't supply the requisite energy to fuel a creature like that. In my mind, I always considered the protoss capable of absorbing ALL forms of ambient electromagnetic radiation. There are bacteria and fungus that do this. Hell, even animals like the litoral green sea slug and some species of wasp live off photosynthesis.The reason why visible light is used for photosynthesis and why all animals with eyes can see at least visible light is because it has the perfect frequency to power photosynthesis without killing the cells. Infrared and lower is not powerful enough to power cell metabolisms, while ultraviolet is too powerful and would break apart biological macromolecules. That is why overexposure to ultraviolet light causes cancer and all diurnal organisms have developed skin protection.


Yeah, they’re magical aliens. The Zerg are impossible via standard biology too.There is a difference between taking real biology to absurd extremes, disregarding any semblance of real science, and not trying to explain the science because any efforts would fail.

Zerg biology is rarely explained in sufficient detail to contradict real science and what little is explained is often too alien to really quantify in terms of real science. For example, at one point Zerg are stated to have "singing organelles" that allow them to share genes remotely, but we don't get any actual mechanics for this and there are already real life mechanisms that could easily explain it such as radio. At some points the authors outright give up rather than make up pseudoscience. The mutalisks, for example, are stated to fly in space through unknown means. For the most part, Zerg biology is left to our imagination.

Protoss biology, by contrast, is explained in too much detail. What little we are told makes no sense since it violates everything we know or could predict about biology. Their physiology behaves more like that of an impossible space demon from a Cthulhu mythos story, and we are expected to accept it at face value even though it makes no sense at any point in its description.


This post breaks down how Protoss biology is impossible in every way: http://gamelore.tumblr.com/post/38693415201/protoss-physiology
This discussion explains how Protoss photosynthesis and evolution is fundamentally impossible: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/starcraft-2/61991-problems-with-protoss-physiology
This post redesigns Protoss into something more sensible: https://dimetrodone.tumblr.com/post/164231167554/curious-of-your-thoughts-on-protoss-biology-i



There is no way I can make sense of the Protoss so I just redesigned them so they would fit their ecological niche more

https://78.media.tumblr.com/c8112d2fe2fcec6c65ccc66499a56a74/tumblr_inline_our0m3AwNA1ri7z1c_500.png
Their skin is full of black-pigmented photosynthetic “bacteria”, so efficient at light absorption they can synthesis at night and low light conditions. Their arms and hands are actually heavily modified oral proboscises, which they still use for feeding (mainly to find more “bacteria”).

While they can make noises with their breathing vents on the underside of their body, their main form of communication is through electrosignalling. Their electroreception is so fine that they can even “read” basic signals happening inside other organisms brains. The bioluminescent patches under their eyes acted somewhat as “headlights” for their ancestors much like Earth’s Spotlight Loosejaw fish, but nowadays are more important for making facial expressions and body language.

Unlike Eukaryotes the Protoss’ chromosomes are rings as opposed to strands. This may be the reason for their remarkable lifespan, and arnt prone to many of the effects of aging that humans face, tho they still have increase risks of cancer as they grow older.

That is what the Protoss would look like if they were designed by a real biologist, and not rip offs of the Eldar drawn by Chris Metzen. The problem here is that the artist modeled them after their SC2 science, which results in an ectothermic herbivore that spends all its time eating algae. It is not feasible that race would develop into proud warrior space egyptians, so they would need to be redesigned AGAIN into predators. That would ditch the photosynthesis, but who cares about keeping the photosynthesis? I want my space vampires, darn it!


Eh, maybe. Of course Blizzard has created a universe where everything is carbon-based life that functions with typical terrestrial amino acid chains and DNA-based genome with a shared chirality. Of course, basically every scifi franchise is guilty of that, with the exception of Mass Effect and a few others.

But our building blocks are abundant through out the universe, so who's to say what the real level of variation would be?


At best I think you can say the Xel’Naga ran into all those species and made them compatible, but they were only active in the k sector and on Zerus.

That makes only partial sense and I would ignore it as silly Blizzard nonsense.

Carbon-based life can only exist in very specific conditions. Zerus was too hot to support carbon-based life or liquid water and was located in the galactic core where radiation would have made such life impossible, so I would have to conclude that the primordial Zerg used silicon as the backbone of their biological macromolecules, drank sulfuric acid instead of water, and respired a halogen like fluorine or chlorine instead of oxygen. A human being who stepped foot on Zerus would be instantly crushed, incinerated and doused with acid at the same time.

[Visions of Khas]

I like your assessment of the ancient zerg biology, but we still have to square it with what we see of the modern-era Zerus, which doesn't seem nearly as inhospitable to carbon based life. Its possible Zerus underwent a Siderian oxidation event similar to Earth's. Perhaps the ancient zerg, then obligate anaerobic organisms, were able to acclimate to this environment by assimilating aerobic life. Oxygen would make for a better source of energy for their metabolism anyways.

[KaiserStratosTygo]

Eh, I agree with the OP on the "sweating out feces" thing, that's just stupid "the dur its fiction" is not a good enough excuse for that.

there's certain levels of disbelief that can't be overcome.

everything else I agree with you guys on though.

[sandwich_bird]

and not knowing that photosynthesis is not practical for powering animal metabolisms.

Photosynthesis as we know it maybe. Saying that it's impossible according to the scientific examples and knowledge we have is the most pointless position you could ever take in a magical universe. You could only debate that it doesn't make sense if there were facts in that universe that would contradict that possibility. Your first argument is that they used to be hunters. Hell for all we know, maybe they hunted some fictive species that have light emitting organs or something.


It is physically impossible for animals like the Protoss to survive on photosynthesis. Even with 100% efficiency, which is physically impossible btw as the loss is due to metabolic processes and not just the limited absorption of light, they still do not have enough surface area to absorb enough energy from sunlight to power their metabolisms. Sunlight simply does not have enough energy density in that small a space.

They're perfect in form, they've been enhanced and they have magic abilities... nothing is impossible. You don't talk about how they store the energy. You don't know how efficient their metabolism is. You don't know if sunlight is their only source of energy. etc etc etc. There's no point to this argument because again, all you know is that they eat sunlight.



Firstly, the xel'naga were not that advanced, as shown by the manual explicitly stating they were surprised by the Zerg's skill at genetic engineering.

Explicitly stating? This is the only paragraph that would show hints of surprise:


[...] The Xel’Naga soon made an alarming
discovery. The original races assimilated by the
Zerg were hardly recognizable after only a few
generations of their inception. Somehow the
Zerg had developed the ability to supercharge
and steer the latent evolutionary processes
within their host creatures.[...]

"Alarming discovery" is far from meaning "surprised due to superior genetic engineering skills".


Since the zerg are canonically better genetic engineers than the xel'naga and have all their knowledge and skill, then it would stand to reason they would make themselves photosynthetic if it was a viable option. Since they have not, it stands to reason that the xel'naga were either not capable of this or that it is not viable to make that alteration. But you could argue that creep utilizes biological photovoltaic cells, since it is grey and has a huge surface area to catch sunlight.


If they had all of their knowledge and skills, then why would they need a determinant in the first place? They would most likely have the code to produce a Protoss because if the XN enhanced the protoss, it is likely that they possessed the genetic information of the protoss. They must at least do partially if anything. For some unknown reason they can't though. Whatever that reason is, it might also be the same reason why photosynthesis, as used by the protoss, is not something that is so easily done. That is, even for masters of genetic manipulation.


Secondly, the photosynthesis retcon was part of the overall wimpifying of the Protoss. In the SC1 manual the protoss were nearly physically perfect and could survive in almost any environment stark naked, which was the original definition of purity of form. Shakuras was darker than Aiur, but the nerazim were so wimpy that they need to genetically alter themselves to survive on moonlight. In the DT novels they needed to wear animal skins to avoid freezing to death in tropical jungles. Hardly pure of form, they are actually inferior to humans in every way.

Fair observation but this is more of a rant against the writing direction than an argument against the possibility of photosynthesis :p These novels aren't canon anyways.


Thirdly, protoss portraits breathe while idle and some of them wear gas masks. This would only make sense if they had lungs and breathed through their face, even though the Field Manual explains they have no lungs or orifices.

Again, fair observation though, like I said, we don't know how their internal biology works at all. The breathing motion doesn't have to be related to typical animal breathing. If they have no orifices, then possibly their skin can breath. Maybe their facial skin is much thinner than the rest of their body which would explain the gas masks.

Where does the field manual cites that anyways? I don't remember that. Wouldn't surprise me though.


"gills": https://www.artstation.com/artwork/protoss In that image a nerazim is presented as having folds of skin on their face, presumably gills and/or facial muscles that serve a role in body language.

I'd be fine with this. Very impractical to eat if that is where you're going but otherwise that's a nice "hidden" mouth.

I don't like the sucking idea though. I find it very lame.



That is stupid and makes the nerazim look like lame posers. Not that I expected any different from Blizzard.

In world building with verisimilitude and believably, the veils would have relevance to their culture and physiology. Veils are worn to veil things, so it stands to reason that in any vaguely realistic world building the nerazim wear veils to conceal their feelings. This leads to the conclusion that Protoss must have some kind of body language, which at least partly relies on facial muscles below the eyes. From there, you come to the conclusion that their telepathy and khala are not the only way they communicate and may in fact cloud their communication compared to speaking face-to-face.

Most would disagree with you on this. Their ninja style is part of the appeal. But again, it doesn't need practical sense. Your drawing conclusions too far.


Seriously, I think they look silly. From an artistic perspective those faces are a lopsided waste of space. The jawline needs facial features of some kind, or the eyes need to be moved to the center of the face, or the entire chin needs to be removed.


Well there you go, maybe that's why they hide it :p they wouldn't want to insult your superior fashion senses


Eh, I agree with the OP on the "sweating out feces" thing, that's just stupid "the dur its fiction" is not a good enough excuse for that.

I don't even know where he got that anyways. Who said that?

[Visions of Khas]

I was scrolling earlier today and thought somebody drew a Sandslash...

[Gradius]

Eh, I agree with the OP on the "sweating out feces" thing, that's just stupid "the dur its fiction" is not a good enough excuse for that.

there's certain levels of disbelief that can't be overcome.
It's not excused because it's fiction, it's excused because they already have huge power sources like the khala and void. Them breathing, having mouths, nipples, etc, are literally all vestigial traits.


There is a difference between taking real biology to absurd extremes, disregarding any semblance of real science, and not trying to explain the science because any efforts would fail.

Zerg biology is rarely explained in sufficient detail to contradict real science and what little is explained is often too alien to really quantify in terms of real science.
I'm not sure if you've noticed, but StarCraft isn't hard sci fi.
- biological telepathy is a pseudoscience and will never be real
- An ultralisk would collapse on its own weight and not be able to feed itself
- zerg can't assimilate alien genetic material because it might not be DNA, it might be opposite-handed, and they'd have no clue how to translate it. They'd have to watch the organism grow/develop.
- psionic storms violate the laws of physics, the khala and void are not real-world phenomenon.
- archons
- the physics we need to overcome to go FTL is still in the realm of fantasy; the exotic matter needed only exists in math equations. Wormholes haven't been seen either and would be too unstable. And an Alcubierre drive would destroy a star system from the build up of particles after exiting the trip, and there's no way to turn the thing on or off since signals can't reach outside the ship.

But protoss metabolism is at the top of your list? Really? :P


You sound like I do when I get into a tizzy about people disagreeing with me when I am really just being paranoid. Why is it stupid? That feels awfully arbitrary. I mean, before the retcons everybody seemed perfectly happy to assume the protoss had mouths somewhere else, or IDK tiny mouths in their skin or something.
It's stupid because there's no evidence for it and they already have other sources of energy. I have just as much evidence that they have a hidden third arm. I've been around since 2002 and I have not seen anybody mention a hidden mouth until you.


That's not remotely comparable. Sweating a few pounds of diarrhea every day would be unimaginably horrific, like "punishment in hell" horrific.
You get that they don't eat, right? Why would there be diarrhea? They have purity of form so I'm imagining them being so insanely efficient that they are constantly recycling molecules like ATP, oxidizing agents, etc.


There was no implication that the Protoss are sustained by space magic or otherwise autotrophic. See, the different evolutionary pressures on autotrophs and heterotrophs mean that it is impossible for autotrophs to maintain complex nervous systems. If the Protoss evolved from autotrophs, then they would have lost their photosynthesis to become more energy-intensive heterotrophs. If the Protoss evolved from heterotrophs into autotrophs, then they would lose their organs and muscles and so forth because those are not efficient for autotrophs to have. Their bodies should deteriorate until they are nothing more than mindless plants attached to their pylons and the remnants of their civilization.

Protoss cannot be both autotrophic and animals with a civilization. It simply is not feasible.
How is there no implication that they're not sustained by space magic? That's the whole point of the race. Even the manual says the dark templar had to alter their biology after being cut off from the Khala. Also, your comparison to textbook biological evolution is completely irrelevant when they have other magical aliens modifying their genome over millennia.


There is nothing in the lore to suggest the Protoss do not eat prior to the photosynthesis retcon.
Other than the total lack of a mouth?

You're insanely hung up on this sunlight thing, which doesn't even have to be a retcon or their main source of energy. They probably need sunlight for some important metabolic processes or to produce vitamin D without which they'll become frail and die. But protoss physiology hasn't been explained enough to the point where we can 100% say sunlight is their only source of energy.

Also, that revised protoss looks like a joke, I'm sorry. Imagine Tassadar talking to you and looking like that thing lmao.

[Mislagnissa]

I like your assessment of the ancient zerg biology, but we still have to square it with what we see of the modern-era Zerus, which doesn't seem nearly as inhospitable to carbon based life. Its possible Zerus underwent a Siderian oxidation event similar to Earth's. Perhaps the ancient zerg, then obligate anaerobic organisms, were able to acclimate to this environment by assimilating aerobic life. Oxygen would make for a better source of energy for their metabolism anyways.

I generally ignore the SC2 retcons. They are generally pointless and stupid.


Photosynthesis as we know it maybe. Saying that it's impossible according to the scientific examples and knowledge we have is the most pointless position you could ever take in a magical universe. You could only debate that it doesn't make sense if there were facts in that universe that would contradict that possibility. Your first argument is that they used to be hunters. Hell for all we know, maybe they hunted some fictive species that have light emitting organs or something.



They're perfect in form, they've been enhanced and they have magic abilities... nothing is impossible. You don't talk about how they store the energy. You don't know how efficient their metabolism is. You don't know if sunlight is their only source of energy. etc etc etc. There's no point to this argument because again, all you know is that they eat sunlight.




Explicitly stating? This is the only paragraph that would show hints of surprise:



"Alarming discovery" is far from meaning "surprised due to superior genetic engineering skills".



If they had all of their knowledge and skills, then why would they need a determinant in the first place? They would most likely have the code to produce a Protoss because if the XN enhanced the protoss, it is likely that they possessed the genetic information of the protoss. They must at least do partially if anything. For some unknown reason they can't though. Whatever that reason is, it might also be the same reason why photosynthesis, as used by the protoss, is not something that is so easily done. That is, even for masters of genetic manipulation.



Fair observation but this is more of a rant against the writing direction than an argument against the possibility of photosynthesis :p These novels aren't canon anyways.



Again, fair observation though, like I said, we don't know how their internal biology works at all. The breathing motion doesn't have to be related to typical animal breathing. If they have no orifices, then possibly their skin can breath. Maybe their facial skin is much thinner than the rest of their body which would explain the gas masks.

Where does the field manual cites that anyways? I don't remember that. Wouldn't surprise me though.



I'd be fine with this. Very impractical to eat if that is where you're going but otherwise that's a nice "hidden" mouth.

I don't like the sucking idea though. I find it very lame.




Most would disagree with you on this. Their ninja style is part of the appeal. But again, it doesn't need practical sense. Your drawing conclusions too far.



Well there you go, maybe that's why they hide it :p they wouldn't want to insult your superior fashion senses



I don't even know where he got that anyways. Who said that?


It's not excused because it's fiction, it's excused because they already have huge power sources like the khala and void. Them breathing, having mouths, nipples, etc, are literally all vestigial traits.


I'm not sure if you've noticed, but StarCraft isn't hard sci fi.
- biological telepathy is a pseudoscience and will never be real
- An ultralisk would collapse on its own weight and not be able to feed itself
- zerg can't assimilate alien genetic material because it might not be DNA, it might be opposite-handed, and they'd have no clue how to translate it. They'd have to watch the organism grow/develop.
- psionic storms violate the laws of physics, the khala and void are not real-world phenomenon.
- archons
- the physics we need to overcome to go FTL is still in the realm of fantasy; the exotic matter needed only exists in math equations. Wormholes haven't been seen either and would be too unstable. And an Alcubierre drive would destroy a star system from the build up of particles after exiting the trip, and there's no way to turn the thing on or off since signals can't reach outside the ship.

But protoss metabolism is at the top of your list? Really? :P


It's stupid because there's no evidence for it and they already have other sources of energy. I have just as much evidence that they have a hidden third arm. I've been around since 2002 and I have not seen anybody mention a hidden mouth until you.


You get that they don't eat, right? Why would there be diarrhea? They have purity of form so I'm imagining them being so insanely efficient that they are constantly recycling molecules like ATP, oxidizing agents, etc.


How is there no implication that they're not sustained by space magic? That's the whole point of the race. Even the manual says the dark templar had to alter their biology after being cut off from the Khala. Also, your comparison to textbook biological evolution is completely irrelevant when they have other magical aliens modifying their genome over millennia.


Other than the total lack of a mouth?

You're insanely hung up on this sunlight thing, which doesn't even have to be a retcon or their main source of energy. They probably need sunlight for some important metabolic processes or to produce vitamin D without which they'll become frail and die. But protoss physiology hasn't been explained enough to the point where we can 100% say sunlight is their only source of energy.

Also, that revised protoss looks like a joke, I'm sorry. Imagine Tassadar talking to you and looking like that thing lmao.

Okay, the "space magic" excuse doesn't fix anything. We might as well let anything go at that point. Why not add demons and dwarves too?

1) Blizzard are idiots and their ideas are shit. You are sullying yourselves by defending that shit.

2) Starcraft is, or at least was, a military science fiction setting fairly grounded in a somewhat realistic world. It was not a fantasy setting with magic and wizards and shit.

3) It doesn't matter if Protoss draw power from khala or void. They would still be subject to the same pressures as all other autotrophs. They would evolve into mindless fungi attached to the ruins of their civilization. That said, I am okay with them warping in food through the psi matrix.

4) Psychic vampires are way cooler than some new age crystal nonsense. It ties in with the food warping: they drain food from storage through the psi matrix. It explains how they would survive in modern times without a psi matrix nearby. Eating humans in desperation would be an awesome plot point.

5) hand and foot mouths are effing cool! No argument.

[Mislagnissa]

EDIT: Also to clear up any misconceptions:

The DT with gills was NOT intended to be a hidden mouth. The mouths I suggested were in the hands and feet.

I KNOW the hunchback protoss redesign does not lend itself to a warrior poet race. I actually said beneath the quote that I thought a predator should have been drawn instead. Something like this:

https://marcuscolvard.deviantart.com/art/T-sar-2-R-ha-Fan-Art-602437727

[Mislagnissa]

EDIT: Actually, why not go further? The protoss are already lifeless, dead-eyed statues who speak in bland dramatic readings, so let's just remove their faces entirely!

https://gcrev.deviantart.com/art/Amphibian-Concept-2-539977755

Having no facial features would immediately set them apart from humans and zerg, who both have expressive faces most of the time.

[Gradius]

Okay, the "space magic" excuse doesn't fix anything. We might as well let anything go at that point. Why not add demons and dwarves too?
Because demons and dwarves are on an entirely different level than you not being able to accept that conventional evolution won't apply when the most advanced race in the universe manipulates your genetics.


1) Blizzard are idiots and their ideas are shit. You are sullying yourselves by defending that shit.
Didn't like the manual or SC1 or SC2? Cool, go write for some other universe then. Why are you here? Clearly you do like StarCraft more than anything else on the market right now. :confused:


2) Starcraft is, or at least was, a military science fiction setting fairly grounded in a somewhat realistic world. It was not a fantasy setting with magic and wizards and shit.
It's sci-fi that's as soft as pudding. How tf are archons and bugs that shrug off hypersonic spikes fairly grounded in a somewhat realistic world? Don't make me laugh.

The appeal for me was always that the realism of the plot offset the fantastical nature of the setting and that it didn't go too off the rails with space magic (until SC2).


3) It doesn't matter if Protoss draw power from khala or void. They would still be subject to the same pressures as all other autotrophs. They would evolve into mindless fungi attached to the ruins of their civilization.
Nope. They'd evolve into whatever the Xel'Naga wanted because that was the plot.


4) Psychic vampires are way cooler than some new age crystal nonsense. It ties in with the food warping: they drain food from storage through the psi matrix. It explains how they would survive in modern times without a psi matrix nearby. Eating humans in desperation would be an awesome plot point.

5) hand and foot mouths are effing cool! No argument.
And there's still not a shred of evidence that they have a hidden mouth vs a hidden arm.


EDIT: Actually, why not go further? The protoss are already lifeless, dead-eyed statues who speak in bland dramatic readings, so let's just remove their faces entirely!

https://gcrev.deviantart.com/art/Amphibian-Concept-2-539977755

Having no facial features would immediately set them apart from humans and zerg, who both have expressive faces most of the time.
Actually looks kinda cool.

[Mislagnissa]

Because demons and dwarves are on an entirely different level than you not being able to accept that conventional evolution won't apply when the most advanced race in the universe manipulates your genetics.In other words, "fuck you, that's how." Just admit that it's your arbitrary opinion and if the story had been written slightly different (IDK, Protoss looking more like Sangheilli than they already do) you'd think the idea of eating khala/void was stupid. Honestly, after arguing with you over this trivial fictional story I think I have an inkling how others feel about my rabid obsession with Enumerate.

I prefer to make Protoss psychic vampires because it opens up plots involving food shortages and cannibalism. The sort of thing that adds a veneer of realism to briefings. I'll try to lookup the last campaign I remember had mentions of food shortages.


Actually looks kinda cool.Finally, something we can agree on.

[Gradius]

I mean, no, not really. So far this conversation has boiled down to you being unable to accept that xel’naga interfered in protoss evolution, giving them the traits that made them interesting to begin with. You’re sitting here talking about how they can’t meet their energy requirements without ingesting food as if creating lightning storms with your mind is something an organism could ever do. :rolleyes:

[Mislagnissa]

I just rediscovered the reference I was thinking of after an hour on youtube. It was The Gallantry custom campaign from 2001, which had voice acting so the author clearly knew what they were doing. Mission 01 mentions food supplies, running low on bengalaas meat, and it hasn't rained in a while.

Jay borino plays: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NuoxsmVt4BA

Feel free to spazz out about heresy or whatever. I have to go to bed now.

[Mislagnissa]

I mean, no, not really. So far this conversation has boiled down to you being unable to accept that xel’naga interfered in protoss evolution, giving them the traits that made them interesting to begin with. You’re sitting here talking about how they can’t meet their energy requirements without ingesting food as if creating lightning storms with your mind is something an organism could ever do. :rolleyes:

This conversation has been inane. It doesn't matter what kind of make believe games you play, I think khala/void-eating protoss is silly and that psychic vampires are cool. I will write loads of fiction depicting breakfast at protoss homes and drink your tears as you cry heresy and tell me I can't have fun. insert sarcasm. I'm tired and going to bed. Have fun.

[Gradius]

Have fun with that. Protoss still don’t have mouths. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


I just rediscovered the reference I was thinking of after an hour on youtube. It was The Gallantry custom campaign from 2001, which had voice acting so the author clearly knew what they were doing. Mission 01 mentions food supplies, running low on bengalaas meat, and it hasn't rained in a while.

Jay borino plays: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NuoxsmVt4BA

Feel free to spazz out about heresy or whatever. I have to go to bed now.
Literally even people in the comments are like “Protoss don’t even have mouths” and “that’s lame”.

[Turalyon]

I must say, Misla loves resorting to the reducing to absurdity argument when any opinion/any person disagrees with him.

[Mislagnissa]

I can't sleep ...


I must say, Misla loves resorting to the reducing to absurdity argument when any opinion/any person disagrees with him.

Please, I haven't gotten started. Besides, you guys started it by relying on the "it's fiction/magic/bullshit" defense in the first place. Fair play is a bitch, Starcraft is fiction. You guys have latched onto the protoss being autotrophs because you can, then you make up "evidence" to support your fanfiction as canon and claim everything else is badwrongfun. That's childish in the extreme, and I am truly disgusted in myself I played right into your childish games of whimsy. Not enough to stop, because this is the internet.

So let's drop our pants and play yet another pissing contest. Since we're throwing logic out the window and making stuff up to suit our preconceived notions, I decided that being autotrophic isn't enough. The protoss have to be descended from humans. Because the xel'naga seeded the galaxy anyway, so obviously that's the case.

human cyborg mutant psychics traveled back in time and evolved into the protoss
the xel'naga thought they had purity of form. lolnope! who gives a flying crap about purity of form?
the xel'naga gave them extra knees, nerve cords and other stuff, then removed their mouths and lungs and other organs and made them eat khala because magic
do they have purity of form now? it is a mystery!
xel'naga ruin it all because of their pointless edits, then run off and die to zerg
protoss lose first khala and somehow survive without food, because magic
protoss make new khala and meet with humans, who are secretly their own cousins
protoss survive in space and without food, forever, because magic

Are we having fun yet?

[Turalyon]

Eh, I haven't partaken much in this particular thread because I could care less about the hardness of the science in science-fiction these days, especially when it comes to Starcraft. Starcraft partly sucks for me now not because the "science" part isn't hard enough (it's never really been that at all anyway), but that the "fiction" part is so overt/obvious now in all aspects of that universe that it's hard to willingly suspend disbelief. Course, this doesn't stop me from enjoying and engaging in it other ways. It's not really treating itself seriously, so why should I/you?


So let's drop our pants and play yet another pissing contest. Since we're throwing logic out the window and making stuff up to suit our preconceived notions, I decided that being autotrophic isn't enough. The protoss have to be descended from humans. Because the xel'naga seeded the galaxy anyway, so obviously that's the case.

I made (joked) that leap of "logic" long ago. I'm also "convinced" Raynor is a time-travelling, future Xel'Naga with amnesia because the game hasn't expressly said it isn't so. :p


Are we having fun yet?

I am. It's better than being angry and bitter about it.

[sandwich_bird]

Why not add demons and dwarves too?

Great idea!

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSnSqM6JxFkuYbYyur8AScmyXj8sYH6W 0xPgdxhHpr2Ej7RyazM

https://www.videogamesartwork.com/sites/default/files/images/image/1374158722/starcraft2_character_terran_swan.jpg


I think khala/void-eating protoss is silly and that psychic vampires are cool.

Hey now, weren't you the one saying Metzen was an idiot for wanting to turn starcraft into space vampires

[Gradius]

Please, I haven't gotten started. Besides, you guys started it by relying on the "it's fiction/magic/bullshit" defense in the first place. Fair play is a bitch, Starcraft is fiction. You guys have latched onto the protoss being autotrophs because you can, then you make up "evidence" to support your fanfiction as canon and claim everything else is badwrongfun. That's childish in the extreme, and I am truly disgusted in myself I played right into your childish games of whimsy. Not enough to stop, because this is the internet.
Not sure if purposefully being intellectually dishonest or you really don't get it? Do you not see the hypocrisy of harping on protoss metabolism when the vast majority of the franchise has fantastical bullshit like archons, psi storms and telepathy? Name one thing I excused with "it's fiction/magic/bullshit". I get the issues behind protoss physiology but I'm definitely not onboard with the never-mentioned/implied hidden mouths nonsense when they already have their own named energy sources. Save that for the amateur fan-fics.

[Mislagnissa]

I wrote my last posts late when I was tired and my judgement impaired, so I wasn't able to articulate myself.

This argument about fiction ultimately boils down to us telling each other "I am right, you are wrong." It is pointless to argue. Starcraft is fiction and canon is whatever Blizzard has retconned it to as of right now, logic and consistency be damned. Protoss biology was made up ad hoc by multiple writers over years and it doesn't make a lick of sense. In the future Blizzard might depict a Protoss dinner and everyone will accept it as gospel. Oh, the horror! You can't claim the Protoss don't eat because the original manual said they were hunters.

We can't use the lore to support anything, even if we try in vain. The xel'naga protogenetics and starcraft physics are so vaguely described that you can't really make any predictions about limitations. Claiming that anything goes is what spacebattles labels a "no limits" fallacy. Since starcraft resembles our own reality, it stands to reason the basic physics are the same since otherwise it wouldn't remotely resemble our own universe. Casual FTL is a standard scifi trope regardless of the real life consequences: the races can already destroy planets and even time travel in various ways so FTL weapons are redundant. But again Blizzard isn't beholden to logic,

I don't know about you guys, but I never got the impression that xel'naga could turn a human-like species into mouthless plant people with almost no internal organs. If they could, they wouldn't have needed to perform an arbitrary high amount of experiments over an arbitrary high amount of time: they could just turn any random species into protoss-like people. If xel'naga could ignore game theory they wouldn't have needed any evolution to take place ever, they could just make up whatever they wanted from scratch. That's a ramification of falling into the no limits fallacy. So of course Blizzard made them into literal gods and shoehorned a multiverse because the original lore didn't say no.

The SC1 manual isn't perfectly consistent and really vague at the best of times. The xel'naga had detailed genetic histories, but couldn't clone species from scratch. Why not? Does it matter? The fluff is ultimately an elaborate excuse for the three races to fight so the specifics are not that important. According to some Blizzard Q&As somewhere, game mechanics trump fluff; also gameplay and story segregation is a tvtrope.

I got the impression that the xel'naga only made minor tweaks but otherwise let natural selection and random mutation take its course. There's no reason to believe 2nd Age Protoss are significantly different in morphology from 0th Age Protoss. The SC2 vestigial traits may be written off as artistic license or body modification, if we still care; the depiction of female protoss generally lent itself to misogynistic forum discussions so I would prefer to ignore all that. Of course Blizzard depicts the Primal Zerg as being born perfect and whatever, contradicting the original lore where they needed to leave Zerus to advance. By that logic maybe the xel'naga made no tweaks to the Protoss at all since we have no evidence of any tweaks since the manual was so vague.

From the perspective of speculative biology the Protoss are unrealistic because their anatomy is too humanoid to be passed off as random chance. And it isn't: Metzen clearly modeled them after Eldar units in Warhammer 40,000 with minor tweaks like double knees, four fingers, tentacle hair and mouthless chins. The Eldar and humans are biologically similar to the point where they can crossbreed like lions and tigers. This is also the case in Starcraft: humans can receive organ grafts from Protoss without dying, and will start developing additional protoss traits like their mouth fusing shut. I'm not saying that Protoss are nothing more than genetically modified humans, but come on! They are totally a Star Trek-style human subspecies.

Now I will play devil's advocate and explain what subsisting on khala/void would actually entail if you think long and hard. But we can invoke space magic if that's too boring.

The khala/void are reliant on Psi, not magical omnipresent sources of free energy. Or are they? The lore is so vague about this it is impossible to verify one way or the other. Saying they eat/breathe Psi like Terrans eat/breathe Supply doesn't explain anything. Supply is ammunition, food, oxygen, batteries, etc. What is Psi? Is it the same? Protoss don't produce matter and energy from nowhere, the Psi Matrix produces energy from somewhere on Aiur through processes unexplained and irrelevant to the narrative. Buildings are manufactured on Aiur from local resources. Protoss bases mine resources to power warp points somehow and probably for other purposes like sending back to Aiur for construction. Buildings need Psi like we need power lines. Protoss units that cast spells consume Energy; which is probably recovered through the Psi Matrix from a fluff perspective. Or maybe it's all space magic. Who cares?

If Protoss wirelessly receive nourishment and clean air through the Psi Matrix, which is not unreasonable to believe, there is no reason to believe they are surviving on pure electricity. If they have psi-powered atmosphere and waste recyclers in their suits, that's one thing. Producing matter from energy would require the force of a nuclear bomb to make a few pounds of matter, so it's not an efficient way for Protoss to eat. Or maybe they do with space magic. Who cares?

If Protoss are cut off from the Psi Matrix, then they would quickly die without built-in digestive and respiratory systems. Terrans without supplies can still breathe atmosphere, gather plants and hunt animals. We have no reason to believe Protoss cannot just because they have no mouths on their face. Maybe they wear masks like the Eldar or have mouths in their hands and feet. We see many situations in the lore where Protoss survive without access to Psi, so clearly they must be able to get sustenance from their environment. That means either they have hidden mouths (eating with skin is literally an invisible mouth, like having your small intestine on the outside)--HERESY! PROTOSS LACK MOUTHS!--or they are space vampires, which is effectively the same thing unless we are anal-retentive about semantics. Or maybe they use space magic. Who cares?

If xel'naga can ignore game theory yet rely on evolution and make tweaks as small/big as required by whoever is talking, then protoss can eat with/without hidden/unhidden mouths/small intestine on the outside in their skin/hands/feet/wherever. Both statements are equally nonsensical. I'm not saying it was space magic, but it totally was. Where does logic ever enter into it?

It ultimately boils down to personal opinion. Protoss work based on the current fad. Back in the early 2000s we were content to ignore the issue or assume Protoss ate bengalaas, and now they are assumed to eat whatever flavor of magic suits your fancy. Because space magic solves all problems. Xel'naga artifacts cure infestation and make coffee and whatever else the plot requires. Why should we pretend to be remotely grounded? Space magic for everyone!

[Nissa]

It's stupid because there's no evidence for it and they already have other sources of energy. I have just as much evidence that they have a hidden third arm. I've been around since 2002 and I have not seen anybody mention a hidden mouth until you.

I just wanted to be fair and point out that I have actually seen someone say this before. They, like Mislag, were getting unreasonably angry because they didn't understand how a being could live off of sunlight and not eat like a normal creature.

Mislag, I don't get why you're so upset about this. I mean, there's all kinds of crazy things in the universe. I'm not even talking Starcraft itself. The real world has lots of absurdities in it. Why not a sentient being that feeds from the sun like a plant? After all, the point of science fiction is to wonder why, to play around with concepts and create new things from them. Plant people is conceptually fun, and that's the entire point.

[Gradius]

It’s simply not viable for an animal to survive on sunlight like a plant let alone have animal-like features if you think about it for more than 2 seconds. I hate the sunlight retcon too, but mostly because it’s redundant to energy sources they already have.
- Protoss are never without psi. Talking to another Protoss requires psychic power. And we know that at least they’re forced to draw on the void when their cords are cut off. Also, they had a bunch of psychic powers during the AoS before that got retconned, what with land masses being devastated.
- The Protoss were one of the xel’naga’s most promising experiments and they seem to have evolved with a mini Khala so I never got the impression the Xel’Naga could do this to any species.
- The Protoss are going to have to have psionic organs for converting psi to electricity and/or chemical energy. Just another thing that makes them cool. Besides that, they can somehow turn their whole bodies into energy and back again when they make Archons, so good luck explaining that.
- I thought of their skin more like an external lung than a mouth but whatever works.

[Nissa]

Again, I'm pretty sure the sunlight thing is not a retcon. It's been around, just not officially confirmed. Still, feeding simultaneously on void/psychic energy works for me too. Besides, even with Protoss feeding on sunlight, I assume the Xel'Naga would find some way to engineer them to make it work.

Actually, I had a bigger problem with the Protoss not being able to drink water, rather than eating. The sunlight/psychic stuff is good enough for energy, but neither of those involve hydration.

[KaiserStratosTygo]

"It's not excused because it's fiction, it's excused because they already have huge power sources like the khala and void. Them breathing, having mouths, nipples, etc, are literally all vestigial traits."


I don't have a problem with power sources, I have a problem with them allegedly sweating out shit.

that's just stupid no matter how you slice it.

[Gradius]

I don't have a problem with power sources, I have a problem with them allegedly sweating out shit.

that's just stupid no matter how you slice it.
Why would they do that? They don’t even eat.

[Visions of Khas]

In an earlier era, a lot of people thought Protoss had something like a self- contained flair of energy in their body, like a miniature Sun. This energy was released at the time of death. But that was before it was retconned as light from emergency teleportation/recall.

Whatever their every source, the original manual implies it was supplemented either by the Khala or the Void. What that might entail is another matter -- microwave background radiation, ambient EMF, quantum fluctuation or Casimir effect, dark energy, mass conversion, radiosynthesis of gamma radiation like some species of radiotrophic fungi, etc.

I used to think Protoss had microscopic pieces of Khaydarin distributed through out their body, allowing them to tap into Aiur's psionic matrix directly and naturally.

[Mislagnissa]

I just wanted to be fair and point out that I have actually seen someone say this before. They, like Mislag, were getting unreasonably angry because they didn't understand how a being could live off of sunlight and not eat like a normal creature.

Mislag, I don't get why you're so upset about this. I mean, there's all kinds of crazy things in the universe. I'm not even talking Starcraft itself. The real world has lots of absurdities in it. Why not a sentient being that feeds from the sun like a plant? After all, the point of science fiction is to wonder why, to play around with concepts and create new things from them. Plant people is conceptually fun, and that's the entire point.The plant people angle is an interesting one, but the protoss are not a good example of plant people. They are basically humans in prosthetic makeup.

If I wanted to redesign the Protoss as plant people and did not have the resources to replace all their in-game models, I would do a huge fluff retcon that explains the Protoss are essentially shapeshifters.

In the SC1 manual, the purity sought by the xel'naga was an arbitrary quality rather than any kind of metaphysical constant. According to the text "Obsessed with fashioning the perfect lifeform, the Xel’Naga laboured to create a creature that would be defined by a distinct purity of form." Since the Protoss are described as ideal because of their physical feature primarily and psychic features secondarily, it would seem that "purity of form" refers largely to physical anatomy.

Purity literally means free of contamination or impurities, and something impure may be purified. So it stands to reason that purity of form would mean the same. How would a physical anatomy be free of contamination or impurity? How do you purify biology?

While purity of form and essence are not exactly opposing qualities, the xel'naga's abandonment of form in favor of essence could be used to argue that the two are comparable. Since purity of essence refers to the Zerg's hive mentality, retaining unity even in the face of wildly divergent physical forms, perhaps the Protoss would be the opposite?

Protoss are adaptable to a variety of adverse conditions, yet their physiology remains the same. Adaptability means able to adjust to new conditions or modify for new uses or purposes. Perhaps this could mean that Protoss anatomy doesn't change on a physiology level, but does on a structural level. They can change their shape to suit new environments without requiring any genetic changes. That is, shape shifters on some level.

Perhaps the humanoid protoss we see are merely a common shape they assume, but not the only one. It would explain why their physiology is completely different from what you would expect a humanoid, or even a bengalaas, to have. What would be their natural form, then? Well, since they are descended from carnivorous plants or maybe fungi, maybe their natural form is a mass of branches and roots or a mycelium of some sort.

That would make them stand out much more from Terrans and Zerg, without requiring their existing designs to be discarded due to expenses.

Why would they assume a humanoid form, though? Maybe they do it to mimic the xel'naga? Maybe humans are humanoid because we resemble the xel'naga? I mean, in Doctor Who the reason why lots of aliens look human is because the time lords were the first race to evolve a humanoid form and somehow the rest of the universe mimicked them due to morphic fields or Star Trek-style progenitor seeding.


It’s simply not viable for an animal to survive on sunlight like a plant let alone have animal-like features if you think about it for more than 2 seconds. I hate the sunlight retcon too, but mostly because it’s redundant to energy sources they already have.
- Protoss are never without psi. Talking to another Protoss requires psychic power. And we know that at least they’re forced to draw on the void when their cords are cut off. Also, they had a bunch of psychic powers during the AoS before that got retconned, what with land masses being devastated.
- The Protoss were one of the xel’naga’s most promising experiments and they seem to have evolved with a mini Khala so I never got the impression the Xel’Naga could do this to any species.
- The Protoss are going to have to have psionic organs for converting psi to electricity and/or chemical energy. Just another thing that makes them cool. Besides that, they can somehow turn their whole bodies into energy and back again when they make Archons, so good luck explaining that.
- I thought of their skin more like an external lung than a mouth but whatever works.We have seen instances where the Protoss do not have omnipresent Khala. For example, the Conclave was not aware of Tassadar's actions after the return of the expedition. It stands to reason that Protoss communication has a limited range, just like the psi matrix power generation does in the games.

Nerazim have been seen using pylons, so it stands to reason that they harvest/generate power in a manner similar to the psi matrix on Aiur regardless of the ultimate source. For example, the Empire may harvest geothermal/solar/wind/whatever energy present on the planets in the Empire; the nerazim, by contrast may rely on hawking radiation and other "dark" sources of power.

It does not follow that the xel'naga would be able to remove X species' mouth because of Y conditions, given how the manual details the evolution of the Zerg then it stands to reason this would be mentioned in the Protoss' backstory. I don't think the writers really thought about the physiology behind the Protoss since it wasn't important to the story, whereas the Zerg evolution informs their goals and mechanics. The Protoss skin is not efficient for transport of anything because it has too low a surface area compared to their body's volume, unless they were a mass of plant roots or fungal hyphae folded into the rough shape of a humanoid as I suggested previously. Psi would already be producing electricity, since Tesla already proved wireless electricity transmission is feasible (but only economically viable in communist societies, like the protoss), so Protoss would not need special organs to convert it to anything. Protoss could just as easily be wearing suits that recycle their waste back into sustenance.

We have no idea what archons are really made of or how they are created (we do know the transformation is permanent). Pure energy is not a thing, since energy is a quality of matter. Given their comparison to stars, maybe archons are miniature sentient stars? Even the purity of form sought by the xel'naga?


Again, I'm pretty sure the sunlight thing is not a retcon. It's been around, just not officially confirmed. Still, feeding simultaneously on void/psychic energy works for me too. Besides, even with Protoss feeding on sunlight, I assume the Xel'Naga would find some way to engineer them to make it work.

Actually, I had a bigger problem with the Protoss not being able to drink water, rather than eating. The sunlight/psychic stuff is good enough for energy, but neither of those involve hydration.Either the nexus points teleport water into their bodies, or their suits recycle their water/waste, or they engage in eating/drinking from time to time, or maybe all of the above.


I don't have a problem with power sources, I have a problem with them allegedly sweating out shit.

that's just stupid no matter how you slice it.


Why would they do that? They don’t even eat.

The Field Manual says they eat/excrete with their skin.


The face features two glowing eyes but no mouth, nose, or ears—in fact, protoss have no orifices whatsoever. Most nutritional intake or waste excretion occurs at a molecular level, passing directly through semipermeable skin that's remarkably complex in its cellular structure. The rough, scaly epidermis absorbs light for sustenance (even if reflected, such as moonlight) and also absorbs and excretes moisture. Smell and sound are sensed through the skin as well.

To put in simple English: the Protoss "eyes" are actually glowing patches of light-sensitive skin and not balls of water set in sockets, their skin absorbs food and water and sweats out urine and feces, their skin absorbs sunlight for non-nutrient sustenance, and their skin smells and hears their environment.

Ignoring for a moment that this kind of anatomy is only feasible for small simple organisms like sponges and jellyfish, they wear clothes that directly interfere with all these functions.


In an earlier era, a lot of people thought Protoss had something like a self- contained flair of energy in their body, like a miniature Sun. This energy was released at the time of death. But that was before it was retconned as light from emergency teleportation/recall.

Whatever their every source, the original manual implies it was supplemented either by the Khala or the Void. What that might entail is another matter -- microwave background radiation, ambient EMF, quantum fluctuation or Casimir effect, dark energy, mass conversion, radiosynthesis of gamma radiation like some species of radiotrophic fungi, etc.

I used to think Protoss had microscopic pieces of Khaydarin distributed through out their body, allowing them to tap into Aiur's psionic matrix directly and naturally.I was always open to the idea that the flashy death is largely a game mechanics thing, and that Protoss remains may be left in varying states of intactness. If Protoss always vanished upon death, it would be easy to make sure to leave no survivors, so the Protoss that survived against Zerg long enough to become Dragoons should not have done so.

I figured, like others have suggested in the past, that both Protoss and Nerazim rely on separate psi matrixes which collect energy from wherever (geothermal, solar, hawking radiation, etc) for use in their nexus points (bases) and units. They cannot produce something from nothing.

A lot of these explanations I think are more complicated than they need to be. Saying the Protoss wear still-suits and eat from time to time is a lot simpler than positing complicated biological mechanisms.

The microscopic khaydarin thing is actually identical to what I posited for the Zerg. In the Zerg briefings we see what appears to be a purple khaydarin crystal, but the Zerg never use khaydarin and have to harvest it from external sources. The Overmind incorporated the compatibility of khaydarin into the Zerg, which I would think requires a source of khaydarin somewhere to analyze (considering the xel'naga supposedly used it in their experiments, possibly even as the basis of their tech). To explain this inconsistency, I posited that Zerg lack the necessary conditions to cultivate khaydarin on their own and made a substitute that fit with their biology. I never gave it a name, but I would suppose it is the jorium introduced in SC2. They use it to make their nervous systems conductive or something along those lines, but this makes them vulnerable to attacks that target jorium (I thought this made more sense than the hive mind being arbitrarily vulnerable to psi destroyers, since primal zerg would lack jorium in their bodies while still being telepathic).

Of course a similar explanation could explain why the Zerg could not clone Protoss despite having knowledge of their genetics, assuming the histories were detailed enough to do so (which isn't necessarily the case). This knowledge was based on xel'naga tech, which maybe the Zerg could not replicate nor easily use perhaps due to a psychological inability to understand tools beyond very simple applications (opening doors, hacking existing tech). I posited that perhaps the SC2 queens are the result of a failed attempt to clone Protoss (ignoring the SC2 lore).

[Gradius]

They absorb/excrete stuff through their skin at a molecular level, which would barely effect them as they get their energy source from somewhere else. Completely different than excreting mass diarrhea, wherever even you got that from. <_<

I disagree with pretty much all your conclusions. Just more examples of begging the question fallacy and non-sequiturs while proclaiming that everything has to be done/interpreted your way and being completely unopen to other possible explanations. You clearly have invested yourself in your own fanon way too strongly and nobody will convince you otherwise.

[sandwich_bird]

I disagree with pretty much all your conclusions. Just more examples of begging the question fallacy and non-sequiturs while proclaiming that everything has to be done/interpreted your way and being completely unopen to other possible explanations. You clearly have invested yourself in your own fanon way too strongly and nobody will convince you otherwise.

Pretty much. He gets emotional at the fact that photosynthetic protoss don't match our world's science but then is perfectly ok with shapeshifting branches... Seriously!?

[Mislagnissa]

They absorb/excrete stuff through their skin at a molecular level, which would barely effect them as they get their energy source from somewhere else. Completely different than excreting mass diarrhea, wherever even you got that from. <_<All biological processes already occur on a molecular level. When human digest food and excrete waste, it is all done on a molecular level. It's redundant to say so, so obviously the field manual was written by a scientifically illiterate moron.


I disagree with pretty much all your conclusions. Just more examples of begging the question fallacy and non-sequiturs while proclaiming that everything has to be done/interpreted your way and being completely unopen to other possible explanations. You clearly have invested yourself in your own fanon way too strongly and nobody will convince you otherwise.Pot kettle black, much?

I just spend several paragraphs exploring a variety of alternate ideas, which don't necessarily fit together. I went out of my way to justify your POV, which you just handwave as magic.

I suggested that maybe the Protoss are literally plants that loosely arrange themselves into humanoid forms like the Thep Khufans from Ben 10, who are literal space egyptians. http://ben10.wikia.com/wiki/Thep_Khufan Those guys have no insides at all and are made of flat strips that maximize surface area to absorb the deadly radiation of corrodium crystals they keep inside their hollow torso. They even look alike!


Pretty much. He gets emotional at the fact that photosynthetic protoss don't match our world's science but then is perfectly ok with shapeshifting branches... Seriously!?

Protoss being space mummies powered by blood sacrifice and deadly radiation sounds pretty cool, no?

You're just jealous you didn't come up with the idea first.

[Mislagnissa]

We are just making shit up. Lighten up a bit.

[Gradius]

Pretty much. He gets emotional at the fact that photosynthetic protoss don't match our world's science but then is perfectly ok with shapeshifting branches... Seriously!?
Yeah that stuff is literally at the bottom of the priority list in a universe that has Archons.


All biological processes already occur on a molecular level. When human digest food and excrete waste, it is all done on a molecular level. It's redundant to say so, so obviously the field manual was written by a scientifically illiterate moron.
Cool, that still doesn't equate to excreting diarrhea on a mass scale. This is exactly what I'm talking about. It's obvious that the writer was trying to say this process occurs at a very small scale. But since this doesn't match your pre-conceived fanon, this guy is obviously a moron?


We are just making shit up. Lighten up a bit.
See above and take your own advice. It's fine if you think your alternate universe of StarCraft is the best, but you're basically coming in here and forcing people to buy into your fanon instead of recognizing it as just that.

[Mislagnissa]

If protoss are so adaptable, maybe they can switch between carnivorous and photosynthetic lifestyles. At one point in their lives they are immobile plants, and at another they are active hunters. IIRC, SC Ghost would have explained them as amphibians who laid eggs in water. It's no less crazy than that theory about xel'naga removing their digestive systems somehow.


Yeah that stuff is literally at the bottom of the priority list in a universe that has Archons.Then the writers really shouldn't bother to detail their physiology at all if that be the case. On the other hand, if we don't need to worry about including any real science then there's no reason for the Protoss not to be composed of bolts of plant fiber woven in the rough shape of a person. They look too much like humans as it is.


Cool, that still doesn't equate to excreting diarrhea on a mass scale. This is exactly what I'm talking about. It's obvious that the writer was trying to say this process occurs at a very small scale. But since this doesn't match your pre-conceived fanon, this guy is obviously a moron?That doesn't change the total mass of poo coming out. For protoss, every single pore of their skin is a tiny anus. I don't see humans gagging whenever they're around Protoss, so obviously Protoss shit literally doesn't stink and that's why they are so stuck up.


See above and take your own advice. It's fine if you think your alternate universe of StarCraft is the best, but you're basically coming in here and forcing people to buy into your fanon instead of recognizing it as just that.I pointed out that the photosynthesis explanation doesn't make sense. Defenders claim that it's magic we can't explain, which I see as reason to ignore the whole thing as unnecessary.

You're the one who suggested that pylons provided food. Fair enough, it just works, we don't need the science. But whenever I criticized a minor aspect of your explanation, like the psi matrix having a limited range, you always deflect because you seem to really dislike the idea that Protoss could ever be capable of eating and drinking. Why? Just because they don't have mouths in their faces?

[Gradius]

That doesn't change the total mass of poo coming out. For protoss, every single pore of their skin is a tiny anus. I don't see humans gagging whenever they're around Protoss, so obviously Protoss shit literally doesn't stink and that's why they are so stuck up.
Except you haven't proven they need to poop anything out. Their bodies are a self-sustaining machine. I see maybe a few waste products being released analogous to sweat or body odor in humans, but maybe they don't even have that.


I pointed out that the photosynthesis explanation doesn't make sense. Defenders claim that it's magic we can't explain, which I see as reason to ignore the whole thing as unnecessary.
It doesn't make sense to you because you're assuming that's where 100% of their energy comes from, which is another fallacy. Unnecessary? Yes. Objectively wrong and nonsensical like you claim? Not really. It can be another form of sustenance that they need without which they'll die, but other than that, they have the khala and the void as energy sources. Why does this have to be such a difficult concept? You buy all the other nonsensical bullshit like archons and psi storms, why not this perfectly reasonable explanation? They can use it to channel psi blades, but not power their own bodies?


You're the one who suggested that pylons provided food. Fair enough, it just works, we don't need the science. But whenever I criticized a minor aspect of your explanation, like the psi matrix having a limited range, you always deflect because you seem to really dislike the idea that Protoss could ever be capable of eating and drinking. Why? Just because they don't have mouths in their faces?
I just ignored all that because when I have no clue what you're talking about... and when did I say anything about pylons or the psi matrix? -_-

I said they have access to psionic powers at all times (i.e. khala and void).

[Mislagnissa]

Except you haven't proven they need to poop anything out. Their bodies are a self-sustaining machine. I see maybe a few waste products being released analogous to sweat or body odor in humans, but maybe they don't even have that.


It doesn't make sense to you because you're assuming that's where 100% of their energy comes from, which is another fallacy. Unnecessary? Yes. Objectively wrong and nonsensical like you claim? Not really. It can be another form of sustenance that they need without which they'll die, but other than that, they have the khala and the void as energy sources. Why does this have to be such a difficult concept? You buy all the other nonsensical bullshit like archons and psi storms, why not this perfectly reasonable explanation? They can use it to channel psi blades, but not power their own bodies?


I just ignored all that because when I have no clue what you're talking about... and when did I say anything about pylons or the psi matrix? -_-

I said they have access to psionic powers at all times (i.e. khala and void).The "self-sustaining" part is what I don't agree with. You seem to be assuming that Protoss get free energy from nowhere and that they don't need to eat or breath or shit, which is contradicted in the hunter lore and the photosynthesis lore, whereas I am assuming that they do need to do those things so their energy/nutrition comes from pylons. If they really were self-sufficient, they wouldn't need to interact with others. That's like nirvana.

I can believe that Protoss might need sunlight to synthesize vitamin D or whatever, like you say. But the lore does not frame it that way, and that is what I took issue with.

As I understand Psi, it functions the same way as Supply does for Terrans. It provides food, water, housing, energy for weapons, etc. Psi powers buildings like power plants. Nowhere do I suppose that Protoss get free energy from nowhere any more than Terrans do. The fact that they need to harvest ore and fossil fuels would suggest they cannot.

Your claim isn't stated in the lore and isn't a widely held belief, which makes understanding you difficult. It is important to be clear about the distinction between canon, headcanon, fanfiction and whatever else there is.

In canon, the protoss both photosynthesize and hunt. Different sources disagree about the details, but since canon is a clusterfuck anyway we can just assume they need to do both or they will starve or get rickets or something. Where they get the energy for psychic powers is not explained, but it can be assumed to be the pylons and psi matrix. There are two different psi matrices, one for the khala followers and one for the void users. This is what I subscribe to.

In your headcanon, the Protoss produce free energy from nowhere. You refer to this magical free source of energy as khala and void. What exactly led you to that conclusion?

[Gradius]

1) I thought it was obvious to everybody that the khala and void are external energy pools (see VoK's post 43). Literally, every piece of lore alludes to that. The knowledge of dead khalai being accessed in the templar archives, preservers, etc. The fact that you draw from the void when your nerve cords get cut off, etc. It's explicitly mentioned as an energy pool in some short stories, etc. How did protoss even have normal conversations according to you if it requires machinery for them to get their psychic abilities? Your interpretation is literally not even possible when there have been instances of nerazim only having khalai tech around and khalai only having nerazim tech around.
2) Protoss hunt for skins, not for food. See the DT saga.
3) Where does it say they need to harvest ore and fossil fuels? You think their shit runs on gasoline? Does Aiur look like it has smog? Did you just miss the "advanced technology" portion of the protoss race?

You have some truly unconventional headcanon, I'll give you that.

[Visions of Khas]

I think it's important to note that, once aboard the Spear of Adun, Karax states the solar core provided ample nourishment to it's crew. They are literally being powered by a nuclear reactor. Assuming a vessel of such grand design would probably be made to closely stimulate Aiur's atmosphere, that speaks to the Protoss' resilience, and possibly Aiur's powerful and active electromagnetic field. I think their planet is part of a flux tube connected to it's Sun.

[Nissa]

Mislag, my points about plant people weren't necessarily that Protoss themselves were made of plants, but that the Xel'Naga might have engineered them to have plant-like DNA, or having adapted this DNA to make the Protoss more efficient by not having to waste time eating and cooking.

Now that I think about it, how do plants get rid of waste? That's probably the same method by which the Protoss do.

[Turalyon]

Now that I think about it, how do plants get rid of waste? That's probably the same method by which the Protoss do.

Well, photosynthesis produces oxygen as a "waste" product along with other gaseous waste products. Resin and sap are apparently waste products but they serve other functions within the plant, such as transport of materials (like blood) for the former and protection (like immune response) for the latter. Also, because plants are generally rooted and immobile, I'm sure some waste materials will leech out into the ground they're stuck in, too.

[Mislagnissa]

1) I thought it was obvious to everybody that the khala and void are external energy pools (see VoK's post 43). Literally, every piece of lore alludes to that. The knowledge of dead khalai being accessed in the templar archives, preservers, etc. The fact that you draw from the void when your nerve cords get cut off, etc. It's explicitly mentioned as an energy pool in some short stories, etc. I am reading the Starcraft wiki articles, and they say absolutely nothing about this. The khala is a telepathic network produced by living Protoss and their tech, not the akashic records (if it was, severing nerve cords would not have destroyed it). In fact, the original manual and the wiki articles citing it states that power is drawn from the psi matrix.


The Protoss are a meticulous species, and their manufacturing techniques and tools have been developed over generations by Khalai workers. Protoss structures are produced on the Protoss Homeworld of Aiur.
[...]
Protoss buildings and units, to a lesser extent, draw their energy from a great psionic energy matrix that emanates from Aiur. While the Nexus provides a link to this matrix, Pylons are needed to actually tap into the energy required to provide Psionic energy (Psi) to new colonies.

Before you start arguing semantics, the "lesser extent" part means that units don't require a constant connection to the Psi Matrix or else shutdown like buildings. As abstracted by the game mechanics, they store Energy for spells.


How did protoss even have normal conversations according to you if it requires machinery for them to get their psychic abilities? Your interpretation is literally not even possible when there have been instances of nerazim only having khalai tech around and khalai only having nerazim tech around.I never said that. I said they draw energy from their tech and store it for later use, but I did not say tech was the only source. You are assuming khala and void are types of energy, which I don't: the meaning seems to vary by context, but in this context they are opposing disciplines for using psychic power. Energy is energy regardless of whether it is produced by pylons or dark pylons, so it stands to reason both can sustain any Protoss. In the absence of a pylon, maybe Protoss get sustenance by hunting prey and eating it with their skin.


2) Protoss hunt for skins, not for food. See the DT saga.That is another retcon the author included to try reconciling the statement in the SC1 manual that the Protoss were hunters with the previous retcon that they were photosynthetic. You are moving the goalposts: you previously argued that the xel'naga removed the Protoss' digestive system, but the DT saga claims they were always like that.


3) Where does it say they need to harvest ore and fossil fuels? You think their shit runs on gasoline? Does Aiur look like it has smog? Did you just miss the "advanced technology" portion of the protoss race?I was referring to the minerals and vespene gas in the games. The SC1 manual states that Protoss require raw materials for construction and warping.


Protoss buildings and equipment are mostly produced on Aiur and warped to wherever they are needed. Raw materials, however, are still required both for shipment to the Homeworld and the creation of the warp rifts used to bring in new items.

The Protoss do harvest minerals and vespene for construction and energy production. They cannot produce stuff from nothing.


You have some truly unconventional headcanon, I'll give you that.What I have just said is conventional canon, with citations in the source material, and reasonable assumptions made based on it. You deflect, argue semantics and move the goal posts whenever anything I say or cite disagrees with your headcanon. Sure, I'm one to talk, but let's try to learn from our mistakes and be more civil about this, kay?


Mislag, my points about plant people weren't necessarily that Protoss themselves were made of plants, but that the Xel'Naga might have engineered them to have plant-like DNA, or having adapted this DNA to make the Protoss more efficient by not having to waste time eating and cooking. That is still an ad hoc rationalization for the retcon and is contradicted by the lore. The DT saga claims that the Protoss always functioned like that, and hunted for skins not food, not that they were modified into such by the xel'naga. If you are going to ignore that part of the explanation, why not ignore the whole photosynthesis thing entirely?

Saying the Protoss are photosynthetic is irrelevant trivia, like saying humans need sunlight to produce vitamin D. Was there ever any point in the games where this came up or made any difference? Do we really need this detail?

If they were carnivorous plants, as I suggested, that could be used as a springboard for explorations of their daily life. Maybe they have numerous plant-like traits such as bones made of cellulose, alternate between haploid and diploid generations, etc. My idea for introducing this gradually would be to proclaim that the Protoss we see in the game art are actually tightly wound, and when a Protoss unwinds they look dramatically different. Here is pic attached that gives some idea:
https://i.pinimg.com/736x/3b/71/be/3b71be9a21d461a8614f50a7dbc40479--creature-concept-art-creature-design.jpg


Now that I think about it, how do plants get rid of waste? That's probably the same method by which the Protoss do.Plants excrete gaseous waste through their leaves and solid/liquid waste through their roots. This isn't really efficient for animals, though, since we have far lower surface area to volume ratios. That's why we have digestive and excretory systems.

I am not opposed to Protoss having weird anatomy, but writers really should not try to justify it using detailed pseudo-science they do not understand.

[Gradius]

1. The Void Ray explicitly gathers the energy of the Khala via mechanical means. It’s more than just a telepathic link between Protoss. The high templar channels the energy of the khala, etc.
2. The psi matrix is an energy source that emanates from Aiur that is used to power their buildings (and some parts of units). If it’s part of the Khala then that’s proof it’s an external energy source. If not, then it’s completeky unrelated and you can’t keep saying Khala = psi matrix.
3. They mine minerals to construct their equipment and gas serves as a catalyst for their psi driven machines. It doesn’t serve as the main source of energy though. You can’t purify a planet with a gas powered carrier. Think about how stupid that sounds.
4. Khala and Void are in fact energy types. That’s literally from the game and manual.
5. Protoss produce energy from “nothing” all the time. Warp blades, psi storms, purification beams, etc. There’s no way to store all that energy, which is something you made up. There’s no instances of that in the lore other than one off examples like the shield battery.

[Mislagnissa]

1. The Void Ray explicitly gathers the energy of the Khala via mechanical means. It’s more than just a telepathic link between Protoss. The high templar channels the energy of the khala, etc.I checked the citation on the wiki, and this originates from the short story "Lens of the Void." Canon is inconsistent at the best of times, so I would write this off as the author misunderstanding how the Khala and Void work. The games themselves always explain the Protoss as deriving energy from khaydarin batteries and resources. So claiming that energy is channeled from the Khala is a poetic way of saying they channel energy from the psi matrix.


2. The psi matrix is an energy source that emanates from Aiur that is used to power their buildings. If it’s part of the Khala then that’s proof it’s an external energy source. If not, then it’s completeky unrelated and you can’t keep saying Khala = psi matrix.The Khala is produced by living Protoss, but its range is extended by the Psi Matrix. It's analogous to how the internet is dependent on the power grid, cell towers, and submarine cables. It stands to reason that in common vernacular the Khala would be used as an umbrella term even if that is technically inaccurate. In real life lots of people have no idea what "the cloud" is and often have ridiculous misunderstandings of it.


3. They mine minerals to construct their equipment and gas serves as a catalyst for their psi driven machines. It doesn’t serve as the main source of energy though. You can’t purify a planet with a gas powered carrier. Think about how stupid that sounds.Please stop putting words in my mouth. I said the Psi Matrix provides power and I suppose it gets power from geothermal, wind, solar, vespene, etc. The carriers might use nuclear bombs, maybe they refine the gas into a high density fuel, or something more exotic. The details don't matter, but they don't draw power from nowhere.


4. Khala and Void are in fact energy types. That’s literally from the game and manual.What they are varies by context, often contradictory, because the words have multiple different meanings that authors cannot keep straight. No source explains them as infinite sources of free energy by themselves. That does not make sense given how the Protoss rely on pylons or dark pylons for power and psi-link spires for long range communication. If the Khala was just an energy type, Artanis would not have been able to destroy it in Legacy of the Void by cutting everyone's hair.


5. Protoss produce energy from “nothing” all the time. Warp blades, psi storms, purification beams, etc. There’s no way to store all that energy, which is something you made up. There’s no instances of that in the lore other than one off examples like the shield battery.E=mc². A few grams of uranium can level cities and of course that energy can be stored. We see Protoss units storing Energy in the game to power special abilities. Maybe they carry uranium or whatever the exotic equivalent would be. The details don't matter.

Gradius, there is no reason to believe the Khala and Void are infinite sources of free energy. The Protoss already use the psi matrix, solarite, etc, so there is no reason to include another power source. If the Protoss did have infinite free energy, they would be omnipotent and invincible. They would not have gotten their asses handed to them by the Terrans and the Zerg. Think about how stupid that sounds.

[Visions of Khas]

If the Protoss did have infinite free energy, they would be omnipotent and invincible.

On the topic of Khaydarin, Stetmann noted:


I've just observed the smallest details from it and somehow wrangled a few tidbits when the crystal... helped me. I don't understand how the protoss can possess technology of this magnitude and not rule the known universe. Perhaps they simply don't want to?

Moreover, the Overmind itself claimed that there is power "undreamed of by the Protoss" contained within the crystals. I suspect the Protoss do understand the power they could achieve, but some taboo -- perhaps culturally related to the Aeon of Strife -- prevents them from unlocking that potential.

I say chock it all up to quantum zero-point energy and Stochastic electrodynamics, and Khaydarin is some kind of Jahn-Teller metal.


4. Khala and Void are in fact energy types. That’s literally from the game and manual.



What they are varies by context, often contradictory, because the words have multiple different meanings that authors cannot keep straight. No source explains them as infinite sources of free energy by themselves. That does not make sense given how the Protoss rely on pylons or dark pylons for power and psi-link spires for long range communication. If the Khala was just an energy type, Artanis would not have been able to destroy it in Legacy of the Void by cutting everyone's hair.

I agree. In the StarCraft era, we had the Khala, the mental disciplines and training of the Aiur Protoss; we have the Communal Link, the emotional bond they share; and the Psi Matrix, the energy source originating from Aiur -- all conflated into one concept in the StarCraft II era.

[Gradius]

1. The author is not mistaken and the stories aren’t inconsistent. It’s your fanon interpretation that’s off. How do you even play the games without noting the different energy sources? You can’t.
2. Why do you even care? If you think all this energy is transmitted from the psi matrix then what’s the big deal in doing the same with another energy source?
3. So your hypothesis is that when a protoss leaves the range of the psi matrix and drains his batteries he loses his powers? This is canon breaking in the extreme. Almost every novel doesn’t work.
4. You still haven’t explained how protoss communicated telepathically or used any psychic abilities in the Stone Age.
5. Again, Artanis did not destroy the Khala. The empathic link is destroyed because nobody is in it anymore but the energy source is still there given that void rays and high Templar still use it. Even robotic Sentinels still use the blue psi blades.
6. There’s no evidence carriers get their energy from the psi matrix. They’re not in pylon range when they’re orbiting a planet to purify it. Protoss technology isn’t so inefficient that they’re running on a battery with limited supply. Every unit can regenerate their energy and not be around a pylon.
7. What exactly are the references to void energy and Khala energy in all the games? It’s not the psi matrix or they would call it that. If it’s all just nuclear power then why does one kill the Overmind and other doesn’t? Why did dark Templar have to alter their biology? None of this makes sense.
8. They can destroy planets and still lost. That’s literally the plot...

[Visions of Khas]

1. The author is not mistaken and the stories aren’t inconsistent.
That's a bit disingenuous, Grad. You, more than anyone else here, have been vocal in your criticisms of SC's writing, consistency, and lore.


5. Again, Artanis did not destroy the Khala. The empathic link is destroyed because nobody is in it anymore but the energy source is still there given that void rays and high Templar still use it. Even robotic Sentinels still use the blue psi blades.
This right here means we need to acknowledge that "Khala" can mean different things in different contexts.

The Aiur protoss lost the Communal Link-aspect of the Khala, which would theoretically sever them from its Power Source-aspect. Without their nerve cords, the Dark Templar had to pull upon a new source of nourishing power, the Void. Indeed, the High Templar state, "The loss of the Khala was not easily borne, but we are ready to serve once again." Now, could it be said that their Khaydarin-infused suits are still drawing on the Psionic Link/Power Source-aspect of the Khala? Possibly, but it's important to make that distinction.


6. There’s no evidence carriers get their energy from the psi matrix.
The short story Carrier (http://starcraft.wikia.com/wiki/Carrier_(short_story)) claims each carrier contains a Khaydarin reactor. Could these khaydarin cores be linked to the Energy Matrix-aspect of the Khala? Possibly. All khaydarin seems to be fundamentally linked in some way.

[Gradius]

I think everyone’s been pretty clear on the Khala and void being an energy source when it gets brought up though. But the Khala is clearly a bunch of things at once. And nobody has mentioned yet that psionic matrix = Khala. Also doesn’t make sense that the psionic matrix is still working like 6 years later if it runs off fuels and renewables instead of cosmic energy or zero point energy or whatever since Aiur is abandoned and overrun by Zerg the whole time.

[Mislagnissa]

On the topic of Khaydarin, Stetmann noted:



Moreover, the Overmind itself claimed that there is power "undreamed of by the Protoss" contained within the crystals. I suspect the Protoss do understand the power they could achieve, but some taboo -- perhaps culturally related to the Aeon of Strife -- prevents them from unlocking that potential.

I say chock it all up to quantum zero-point energy and Stochastic electrodynamics, and Khaydarin is some kind of Jahn-Teller metal. In any event, the Protoss do not have infinite source of power separate from the Psi Matrix. Whether the Psi Matrix is infinite or so deep it might as well be infinite is irrelevant. It has no effect on how they fared in the fluff and the games.


I agree. In the StarCraft era, we had the Khala, the mental disciplines and training of the Aiur Protoss; we have the Communal Link, the emotional bond they share; and the Psi Matrix, the energy source originating from Aiur -- all conflated into one concept in the StarCraft II era.Yep, that is what I am talking about. Those things are completely different and makes no sense to conflate them.


1. The author is not mistaken and the stories aren’t inconsistent. It’s your fanon interpretation that’s off. How do you even play the games without noting the different energy sources? You can’t.

That's a bit disingenuous, Grad. You, more than anyone else here, have been vocal in your criticisms of SC's writing, consistency, and lore. The void ray short story is the only source I know of that clearly claims the khala and void are power sources. While there are statements in other sources to the effect of high templar channeling khala and dark templar channeling void, it is not clear whether this means the two are distinct power sources or merely shape the effect of power drawn from another source. It might be like the difference between power plants and adapters: power plants generate power, adapters convert that power into a form compatible with a device.


2. Why do you even care? If you think all this energy is transmitted from the psi matrix then what’s the big deal in doing the same with another energy source?It is redundant and adds nothing? Why do we need another energy source when the psi matrix already suffices just fine?


3. So your hypothesis is that when a protoss leaves the range of the psi matrix and drains his batteries he loses his powers? This is canon breaking in the extreme. Almost every novel doesn’t work.Can Protoss become fatigued and exhausted? Can they starve to death? Did we ever see this happen in the lore, or are bodily functions just glossed over like how nobody ever uses the bathroom on page? I cannot recall any scenes in the EU where anybody of any race had to eat, sleep, bathe, or otherwise attend to their bodily functions. That doesn't mean that everyone, humans and zerg included, are perpetual motion machines.


4. You still haven’t explained how protoss communicated telepathically or used any psychic abilities in the Stone Age.How do we know they did? The SC1 manual implies they forgot their psychic abilities because of the cultural degeneration after the apocalypse, including telepathy/mind reading/etc (since Khas had no idea what other Protoss were thinking/feeling), and had to relearn them after Khas discovered the crystals. If they did have powers of any kind, it would probably have been limited by the availability of energy. Without advanced tech to supplement them then they would have needed to rely on the energy in food, which would only have been sufficient for very basic abilities I would think.


5. Again, Artanis did not destroy the Khala. The empathic link is destroyed because nobody is in it anymore but the energy source is still there given that void rays and high Templar still use it. Even robotic Sentinels still use the blue psi blades.

This right here means we need to acknowledge that "Khala" can mean different things in different contexts.

The Aiur protoss lost the Communal Link-aspect of the Khala, which would theoretically sever them from its Power Source-aspect. Without their nerve cords, the Dark Templar had to pull upon a new source of nourishing power, the Void. Indeed, the High Templar state, "The loss of the Khala was not easily borne, but we are ready to serve once again." Now, could it be said that their Khaydarin-infused suits are still drawing on the Psionic Link/Power Source-aspect of the Khala? Possibly, but it's important to make that distinction.
Precisely. Though I see no need to distinguish between khala-as-power-source and the psi matrix. The two are never explicitly distinguished in any of the lore: no lore source says that the khala and psi matrix are separate power sources. They are never mentioned in the same context, which leads me to assume that this is a simple case of the two being conflated.


6. There’s no evidence carriers get their energy from the psi matrix. They’re not in pylon range when they’re orbiting a planet to purify it. Protoss technology isn’t so inefficient that they’re running on a battery with limited supply. Every unit can regenerate their energy and not be around a pylon.

The short story Carrier (http://starcraft.wikia.com/wiki/Carrier_(short_story)) claims each carrier contains a Khaydarin reactor. Could these khaydarin cores be linked to the Energy Matrix-aspect of the Khala? Possibly. All khaydarin seems to be fundamentally linked in some way.
The description of the psi matrix states that it is wirelessly connected to all pylons and that all buildings and units draw their power from it. It is easy to presume that the carriers contain their own pylons to provide power.

Saying units regenerate out of range of pylons is not sufficient evidence: the game mechanics are an abstraction, not a literal representation of the fictional world. The scales with regard to time and space are obviously unrealistic: such as carriers being barely larger than scouts, buildings constructing within minutes, buildings producing units from nowhere, etc.


7. What exactly are the references to void energy and Khala energy in all the games? It’s not the psi matrix or they would call it that. If it’s all just nuclear power then why does one kill the Overmind and other doesn’t? Why did dark Templar have to alter their biology? None of this makes sense.Perhaps the writers used confusing terminology? They clearly were not scientists or engineers, so they would not know how energy works in reality. Your explanation does not explain those things and only raises more questions, like the self-contained holodeck power source in Star Trek: Voyager. It ultimately boils down to author fiat and taking it for granted.

As for the dark templar biology changes, that seems to originate in the description of the dark archon in the brood war manual and it is only stated to have resulted in the dark archon at that point. The dark world photosynthesis was introduced later in the DT book. There's no explanation in the brood war manual as to why the dark templar needed to alter themselves beyond adapting to harsh conditions, and what these changes actually are (beyond producing the dark archon,which makes no sense unless the changes were psychic in nature, not biological) is not explained. Furthermore this statement contradicts the statement in the starcraft 1 manual about protoss already being adaptable to harsh conditions (since the protoss were already explicitly the strongest, fastest lifeforms in the entire galaxy, however much sense that makes; what, are their bones made of carbon nanotubes?), since by this point Metzen was introducing his retcons involving the evil xel'naga sending the all-powerful zerg to destroy the wimpy protoss. If you care to reconcile the retcon, it is entirely possible this adaptation refers to the development of void-based psychic powers as a substitute for the khala and not to biological engineering. Perhaps, since the xel'naga considered the protoss a failure to begin with, the dark templar found environments so harsh even the nearly perfect protoss had trouble with it and had to develop new powers accordingly. I mean, the protoss evolved the khala for hunting on Aiur, so it stands to reason the dark templar needed psychic adaptations for outer space or whatever decaying realities Zeratul was talking about.


8. They can destroy planets and still lost. That’s literally the plot...Originally the Zerg were stated to need a determinant to have parity with the Protoss, but this plot point was ultimately forgotten. Maybe the protoss were unwilling to glass their home planet since it had the psi matrix they needed to power their tech in the first place. Maybe the Zerg deployed electronic warfare against the psi matrix to interdict the Protoss arsenal. We can speculate forever why the protoss lost despite their clear technological superiority, but we will not get anywhere. The ultimate answer is that Metzen could not be bothered to explain it because he was too interested in advancing his absurd Kerry Sue fanfiction.


I think everyone’s been pretty clear on the Khala and void being an energy source when it gets brought up though. But the Khala is clearly a bunch of things at once. And nobody has mentioned yet that psionic matrix = Khala. Also doesn’t make sense that the psionic matrix is still working like 6 years later if it runs off fuels and renewables instead of cosmic energy or zero point energy or whatever since Aiur is abandoned and overrun by Zerg the whole time.That is a very good question, since the lore explicitly states that the psi matrix is centered on Aiur, draws power from khaydarin crystals on Aiur, and powers the Protoss' manufacturing and war machine. Said question is answered in the games at one point: a quote from the ascendant in SC2 suggests that manufacturing is done on Shakuras and the Spear of Adun.


"Shakuras has fallen... Aiur has fallen... Does that mean all of these structures were constructed aboard the Spear of Adun?"

By extension, this suggests that Shakuras and the Spear of Adun have their own psi matrices. This is supported by the existence of dark pylons aka void pylons used by nerazim in the campaign and co-op. Of course, this could have easily been inferred without explicit statements like that. We do not need to be spoon fed every detail and we do not need to go off on wild tangents to explain simple things like that.

I do not think continuing this argument will go anywhere. The lore is too inconsistent for anyone to agree whether it supports anything. Gradius has made it clear he considers the khala and void as power plants and nothing will change his view. I have made it clear I see no point in that when the psi matrix already performs that role.

Let's just agree that we cannot agree.


Photosynthesis rebuttals
Back to the topic of photosynthesis, I have a final set of rebuttals against the concept of photosynthesis. Basically, it boils down to "photosynthesis" not explaining anything, being redundant to existing lore, and offering no practical applications for the games.

"Photosynthesis" does not explain anything
Protoss photosynthesis seemingly originated from a Q&A sometime in 2006 or so. Someone asked “how do protoss eat without mouths?” and a PR person answered “photosynthesis, like plants.” Both the question and the answer are founded on ignorance.

The SC1 manual already said the Protoss were hunters, so presumably they ate in some alien fashion. The answer is ignorant not only of the previous lore but of real science, as game theory places autotrophic animals at a massive disadvantage outside exceeding rare conditions (http://blogs.plos.org/retort/2010/12/20/why-animals-so-rarely-photosynthesize/).

The photosynthesis explanation does not really answer the question it was intended to. The questioner would have no understanding of photosynthesis and if they did then they would dismiss the answer as ignorant. The answer might as well have been “they just do, I don’t need to explain it” for all the difference that it makes. Even “psychic vampirism” or “pylons” would have been a better answer, since that would have been consistent with the existing setting without introducing unnecessary trivia.

It simply does not make sense from a scientific perspective and any attempts to explain it only raise more questions like “how does it work?” “how is it more efficient than terrestrial plants?” “how does it provide nutrients?” and so on. Whenever someone wonders how it is possible without resorting to pseudoscience and magic that doesn’t actually answer anything, the answer ultimately boils down to “they just do, I don’t need to explain it.” That is same answer I suggested for the original question. We are back at square one.

There is simply no point to saying “photosynthesis.” It doesn’t explain anything better than “they just do,” which it ultimately boils down to by itself since there is no science to support it. The protoss may not have mouths on their faces, but we can assume they eat in some alien fashion and we don’t need any over-complicated physics-defying explanations how.

"Photosynthesis" is redundant to the existing Psi mechanic
The original lore outright stated that Protoss buildings and units already get their energy from pylons, connected to the Psi Matrix, in the form of psionic energy or Psi. The Psi mechanic exists as a counterpart to Supply for Terrans. Psi may be assumed to operate on similar principles to Supply, serving as an abstraction of electricity, food, shelter, ammunition, etc. If Protoss already get sustenance through this system, they do not need to be photosynthetic on top of that.

"Photosynthesis" offers no practical applications
The previous lore already stated Protoss were hunters. What do we gain by changing that to photosynthesis? It adds nothing of value either in comparison or on its own merits. With the Zerg, their genetic engineering gave us their overall motivations and behavior, the gruesome backstories about the creation of ultralisk and overseer, as well as the evolution missions in HotS. For the Protoss, the fact that they photosynthesize is completely irrelevant. They do not behave any differently than humans do, even though autotrophy would logically be expected to render their psychology unrecognizable to us. The games certainly never reference photosynthesis nor do anything with it in their gimmicks. How would you even make a gimmick, much less a compelling one, about protoss photosynthesis?

[Gradius]

In any event, the Protoss do not have infinite source of power separate from the Psi Matrix. Whether the Psi Matrix is infinite or so deep it might as well be infinite is irrelevant. It has no effect on how they fared in the fluff and the games.
Needs evidence. The Void by definition is energy drawn from the cold void of space, which for all intents and purposes is infinite.


The void ray short story is the only source I know of that clearly claims the khala and void are power sources. While there are statements in other sources to the effect of high templar channeling khala and dark templar channeling void, it is not clear whether this means the two are distinct power sources or merely shape the effect of power drawn from another source. It might be like the difference between power plants and adapters: power plants generate power, adapters convert that power into a form compatible with a device.
That's incorrect and there's literally a trove of evidence supporting that they're forms of energy.

- The BlizzCon 2010 lore q&a: "Yeah, I mean, basically, any protoss that is a part of the Khala is going to have an enormous psionic energy to draw on and can create, you know, obviously, weapons and blades with it."
- The manual:
"Khas was able to channel the primal energies of the Crystals through himself"
"It was widely rumoured that since the Shadow Hunters were cut off from the primal chord of their race, they were forced to draw their psionic energies from the dark, cold void of space."
"By equipping themselves with amulets carved from Khaydarin crystal, the High Templar are able to channel the energies of the Khala with greater efficiency."
- All the things that dark templar use the void for: http://starcraft.wikia.com/wiki/Void
- The BW manual and battle.net SCC: "Created by the merging of any two Dark Templar warriors, the Dark Archon can wield the mysterious energies of the void."

On the other hand, you've so far provided zero evidence that the protoss are helpless without their psi matrix which you think does literally everything for them.


It is redundant and adds nothing? Why do we need another energy source when the psi matrix already suffices just fine?
Because it's part of the backbone of the universe and already in the game, and the psi matrix is what protoss use to power their technology, not a psionic power source. It's completely different. I don't care if you think it'd be more efficient if everything just used the psi matrix, because that's not what the evidence shows.


Can Protoss become fatigued and exhausted? Can they starve to death? Did we ever see this happen in the lore, or are bodily functions just glossed over like how nobody ever uses the bathroom on page? I cannot recall any scenes in the EU where anybody of any race had to eat, sleep, bathe, or otherwise attend to their bodily functions. That doesn't mean that everyone, humans and zerg included, are perpetual motion machines.
Protoss might because they have purity of form. You're still dodging the point. If they're helpless without a pylon around that's just...dumb and literally doesn't work in context with any of the novels. Like in Queen of Blades where they're only stuck with units on Char because they're traveling around from place to place and can't relocate. Or the DT saga where protoss without technology use psychic abilities and make psi storms. It doesn't even work in context of any protoss installation missions like Zeratul's rescue or escape from Aiur where they're without a pylon.

Why should I accept your canon-breaking explanation?


How do we know they did? The SC1 manual implies they forgot their psychic abilities because of the cultural degeneration after the apocalypse, including telepathy/mind reading/etc (since Khas had no idea what other Protoss were thinking/feeling), and had to relearn them after Khas discovered the crystals. If they did have powers of any kind, it would probably have been limited by the availability of energy. Without advanced tech to supplement them then they would have needed to rely on the energy in food, which would only have been sufficient for very basic abilities I would think.
So they didn't talk to each other during the whole Aeon of Strife? That's absurd. -_-

Again, they don't eat. They don't have mouths, there's no implication they have mouths, and they hunt for skins. You need evidence before you make claims.


The two are never explicitly distinguished in any of the lore: no lore source says that the khala and psi matrix are separate power sources.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance


The description of the psi matrix states that it is wirelessly connected to all pylons and that all buildings and units draw their power from it. It is easy to presume that the carriers contain their own pylons to provide power.

Saying units regenerate out of range of pylons is not sufficient evidence: the game mechanics are an abstraction, not a literal representation of the fictional world. The scales with regard to time and space are obviously unrealistic: such as carriers being barely larger than scouts, buildings constructing within minutes, buildings producing units from nowhere, etc.
The manual literally says a unit will regenerate its shields.

You don't get to extrapolate one line from the manual (units use psionic matrix to a lesser extent) to literally everything you want. That one line could mean literally anything i.e. they use it for shields, or they need it to be warped in, or it helps maintains their equipment.


Perhaps the writers used confusing terminology? They clearly were not scientists or engineers, so they would not know how energy works in reality. Your explanation does not explain those things and only raises more questions, like the self-contained holodeck power source in Star Trek: Voyager. It ultimately boils down to author fiat and taking it for granted.
So basically, you want to deny evidence?


As for the dark templar biology changes, that seems to originate in the description of the dark archon in the brood war manual and it is only stated to have resulted in the dark archon at that point. The dark world photosynthesis was introduced later in the DT book. There's no explanation in the brood war manual as to why the dark templar needed to alter themselves beyond adapting to harsh conditions, and what these changes actually are (beyond producing the dark archon,which makes no sense unless the changes were psychic in nature, not biological) is not explained.
Nope. It's from the battle.net SCC dark templar page.


Furthermore this statement contradicts the statement in the starcraft 1 manual about protoss already being adaptable to harsh conditions (since the protoss were already explicitly the strongest, fastest lifeforms in the entire galaxy, however much sense that makes; what, are their bones made of carbon nanotubes?), since by this point Metzen was introducing his retcons involving the evil xel'naga sending the all-powerful zerg to destroy the wimpy protoss. If you care to reconcile the retcon, it is entirely possible this adaptation refers to the development of void-based psychic powers as a substitute for the khala and not to biological engineering. Perhaps, since the xel'naga considered the protoss a failure to begin with, the dark templar found environments so harsh even the nearly perfect protoss had trouble with it and had to develop new powers accordingly. I mean, the protoss evolved the khala for hunting on Aiur, so it stands to reason the dark templar needed psychic adaptations for outer space or whatever decaying realities Zeratul was talking about.
Not sure what kind of mental gymnastics you have going on here, but they're adaptable...yes...and so they adapted when they cut their nerve cords off because they lost their pool of energy. That's the whole point.


That is a very good question, since the lore explicitly states that the psi matrix is centered on Aiur, draws power from khaydarin crystals on Aiur, and powers the Protoss' manufacturing and war machine. Said question is answered in the games at one point: a quote from the ascendant in SC2 suggests that manufacturing is done on Shakuras and the Spear of Adun.

By extension, this suggests that Shakuras and the Spear of Adun have their own psi matrices. This is supported by the existence of dark pylons aka void pylons used by nerazim in the campaign and co-op. Of course, this could have easily been inferred without explicit statements like that. We do not need to be spoon fed every detail and we do not need to go off on wild tangents to explain simple things like that.
I agree with that, I just don't agree it's the protoss only power source. They're not going to lose all their powers just because they lose one of those things.


I do not think continuing this argument will go anywhere. The lore is too inconsistent for anyone to agree whether it supports anything. Gradius has made it clear he considers the khala and void as power plants and nothing will change his view. I have made it clear I see no point in that when the psi matrix already performs that role.

Let's just agree that we cannot agree.
Haha, you're acting like I'm the one with the unconventional view on the topic when all the evidence and majority of the fanbase accepts the Void and Khala as power sources. So far you don't really have a shred of evidence to support your view other than speculation, so the burden of proof remains solely squared on you to provide...something, instead of just denying evidence and pushing your fanon hypotheses. That's how debates work.




Photosynthesis rebuttals
Back to the topic of photosynthesis, I have a final set of rebuttals against the concept of photosynthesis. Basically, it boils down to "photosynthesis" not explaining anything, being redundant to existing lore, and offering no practical applications for the games.

"Photosynthesis" does not explain anything
Protoss photosynthesis seemingly originated from a Q&A sometime in 2006 or so. Someone asked “how do protoss eat without mouths?” and a PR person answered “photosynthesis, like plants.” Both the question and the answer are founded on ignorance.

The SC1 manual already said the Protoss were hunters, so presumably they ate in some alien fashion. The answer is ignorant not only of the previous lore but of real science, as game theory places autotrophic animals at a massive disadvantage outside exceeding rare conditions (http://blogs.plos.org/retort/2010/12/20/why-animals-so-rarely-photosynthesize/).

The photosynthesis explanation does not really answer the question it was intended to. The questioner would have no understanding of photosynthesis and if they did then they would dismiss the answer as ignorant. The answer might as well have been “they just do, I don’t need to explain it” for all the difference that it makes. Even “psychic vampirism” or “pylons” would have been a better answer, since that would have been consistent with the existing setting without introducing unnecessary trivia.

It simply does not make sense from a scientific perspective and any attempts to explain it only raise more questions like “how does it work?” “how is it more efficient than terrestrial plants?” “how does it provide nutrients?” and so on. Whenever someone wonders how it is possible without resorting to pseudoscience and magic that doesn’t actually answer anything, the answer ultimately boils down to “they just do, I don’t need to explain it.” That is same answer I suggested for the original question. We are back at square one.

There is simply no point to saying “photosynthesis.” It doesn’t explain anything better than “they just do,” which it ultimately boils down to by itself since there is no science to support it. The protoss may not have mouths on their faces, but we can assume they eat in some alien fashion and we don’t need any over-complicated physics-defying explanations how.

"Photosynthesis" is redundant to the existing Psi mechanic
The original lore outright stated that Protoss buildings and units already get their energy from pylons, connected to the Psi Matrix, in the form of psionic energy or Psi. The Psi mechanic exists as a counterpart to Supply for Terrans. Psi may be assumed to operate on similar principles to Supply, serving as an abstraction of electricity, food, shelter, ammunition, etc. If Protoss already get sustenance through this system, they do not need to be photosynthetic on top of that.

"Photosynthesis" offers no practical applications
The previous lore already stated Protoss were hunters. What do we gain by changing that to photosynthesis? It adds nothing of value either in comparison or on its own merits. With the Zerg, their genetic engineering gave us their overall motivations and behavior, the gruesome backstories about the creation of ultralisk and overseer, as well as the evolution missions in HotS. For the Protoss, the fact that they photosynthesize is completely irrelevant. They do not behave any differently than humans do, even though autotrophy would logically be expected to render their psychology unrecognizable to us. The games certainly never reference photosynthesis nor do anything with it in their gimmicks. How would you even make a gimmick, much less a compelling one, about protoss photosynthesis?
Again, I think everyone here agrees that the photosynthesis explanation is unnecessary. That doesn't rule out the fact that they might need photons from the sun to synthesize some sort of crucial compound like humans do with vitamin D.

[Mislagnissa]

Gradius, I am done answering your inane complaints. You will never accept or understand my argument because we both make fundamentally different assumptions about everything. I could conceive of dozens of alternative explanations like vocal cords, psychic vampires, batteries, writer fiat or anything else.

My only answer for you is that the Starcraft lore is fiction and vague fiction at that. It works however any random Blizzard Q&A rep says it does and they cannot keep anything consistent.

I have moved on to writing a Starcraft clone where I can nip this bullshit in the bud. Psychic powers in my story cannot produce free energy and that is final. Got a problem with that?

[Nolanstar]

You two are like similar sides of a roughly equivalent coin. Same purpose with details as different and shifty as this analogy.

On topic, it doesn't work for conservation of energy. Probably psionically supplemented or by absorbing liquids including blood into skin.

[KaiserStratosTygo]

Why would they do that? They don’t even eat.

No idea, don't ask me, that's not my fanon.

[Gradius]

I have moved on to writing a Starcraft clone where I can nip this bullshit in the bud. Psychic powers in my story cannot produce free energy and that is final. Got a problem with that?
I'm the one that suggested you do that so...no, not really?

[Nissa]

On topic, it doesn't work for conservation of energy. Probably psionically supplemented or by absorbing liquids including blood into skin.

I've always assumed that Protoss "drink." Like, they have little spray devices to discretely spray water on their faces. Or they use little hankies that they dip into bowls.

I also imagine that they burn really, really strong incense, but that has nothing to do with consumption.