sc:r video

[sandwich_bird]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvMWz7j36UQ

[Visions of Khas]

Ah yes, Blizzard's time-honored tradition of wasting protoss.

[Undeadprotoss]

Ah yes, Blizzard's time-honored tradition of wasting Protoss.

What do you mean?

The main problems are with the portraits I think, there's a wide array of Protoss skin patterns and skin shades that aren't necessarily reprsented in the remaster.

[Visions of Khas]

I only meant that I see the protoss player losing in every scene lol

[Nissa]

I actually kinda like the graphics. It looks pretty decent, for the most part.

Except for some reason Aldaris isn't brown or goatee'd. I am so super sick of grey Protoss.

[Gradius]

Where's the pic of Aldaris?

[Undeadprotoss]

Where's the pic of Aldaris?

At 1:40 in the video.

[Robear]

Hah someone already screenshotted most of the portraits from this video to put on the SC wiki.

http://i.imgur.com/bOTDYLg.jpg

Sad they got rid of the dark area in the middle of his face, BUT, they kept his hat, and, yay they didn't make literally every khalai protoss have blue/white eyes. The scout's are even stronger yellow.

[Visions of Khas]

yay they didn't make literally every khalai protoss have blue/white eyes.
Holy shit, really?? I cannot wait to see Fenix's portrait! :D

[Robear]

Holy shit, really?? I cannot wait to see Fenix's portrait! :D

Admittedly they flash both yellow and blue as he talks. Which also happened in the original, they were yellow by default, but during his talking animations could turn red or blue.

http://i.imgur.com/YNhSNvz.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/VRUeizL.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/6OKPAcE.jpg

So I guess it's possible they could have changed it to be blue by default and flash yellow while talking. But even that is still better than the SC2 all blue all the time stuff.

And here's the scout portrait

http://i.imgur.com/zTym4Ne.png

[Turalyon]

"Where's my close-up?"

The remastered Aldaris portrait is much more zoomed in compared to the original. I mean, sure Aldaris does get "in your face" most of the time, but does have to be so literal about it as well? :p

[Gradius]

"Where's my close-up?"

The remastered Aldaris portrait is much more zoomed in compared to the original. I mean, sure Aldaris does get "in your face" most of the time, but does have to be so literal about it as well? :p
Same with the scout. I think it's their way of masking the fact that all the Protoss faces look like SC2.

[Nissa]

*sigh*

I really miss diversity with the Protoss. I just don't understand why Blizz apparently thinks they should all look the same.

[Visions of Khas]

I really miss diversity with the Protoss. I just don't understand why Blizz apparently thinks they should all look the same.

I think it's meant to emphasize the unity of the Protoss, in contrast to the Zerg's diversity.

[The_Blade]

I think it's meant to emphasize the unity of the Protoss, in contrast to the Zerg's diversity.

I feel like they did this in WoL and HotS, holding to a clone narrative of sorts. Then they found out that factions needed to have different artwork to create a sense of division in LotV, but everyone is still a clone under the faction (Spear of Adun army lol).

I find it funny that heroes can exist as a singular entity yet their armies are rarely deviant. Example, no female Protoss on cinematics except Selendis.

[Visions of Khas]

I find it funny that heroes can exist as a singular entity yet their armies are rarely deviant. Example, no female Protoss on cinematics except Selendis.


I attributed it to the perfection of form and their marred essence. The Conclave and Ascendants both push for uniformity, for their varied reasons. Khalai society is homogenous even across interstellar distances because of their warp technology; they don't really have far-flung provinces. So, just as the Conclave demands a cult-like following and adherence to the Khala, so would it be natural for cults of personality to emerge.

By contrast, the Dark Templar and, ironically, Purifiers are the most diverse, in both form and personality. The Nezarim emphasize individuality, casting aside the cultish accents of Khalai society. I'd almost characterize them as Randian objectivist. And the Purifiers, given their digital nature, are malleable in form yet unified in purpose. While Purifiers may adhere to a Khalai-like society, the forced uniformity of the Conclave would be anathema to them, given their slave origins.

[The_Blade]

I attributed it to the perfection of form and their marred essence. The Conclave and Ascendants both push for uniformity, for their varied reasons. Khalai society is homogenous even across interstellar distances because of their warp technology; they don't really have far-flung provinces. So, just as the Conclave demands a cult-like following and adherence to the Khala, so would it be natural for cults of personality to emerge.

This is the core of the jest. I do agree with you. To some extent the Khala is preserved throughout the galaxy and the dictum of the high ranking Protoss echoes into the rather average population. Average has no negative connotation in Khalai society. It is rather a form of order and utilitarian efficiency. Now, here is where our wishful thinking splits heavily from the execution.

a) The greater portion of the Protoss population is split into roles that will maximize their performance. So a group of Zealots will be better than average at being Zealots, but not guaranteed as the best. However, Heroes were classified into their leader template, as well. They are the "best at leading" (as true a statement as politics), but some also excel at fighting like Zealots.

Statement "a" brings up the following rhetoric thought:

If Selendis is so good as fighting like a Zealot, why are Zealots not architected to look more like her. Morever, why aren't leaders (executors and up) more physically alike considering they are better rounded at being pure of form under Artanis' rule. I understand the closed gates of the Conclave to newcomers could have wrongfully placed the incorrect Protoss at the head of the race; but this disappeared after their annihilation. The Protoss became a culture of warriors attempting to survive the fall of their civilization. The best Zealots (and every discipline) should all look very similar to one another, while the more average troops would show slight forms of deviation through: crest forms, psionic colors, gender, and muscle construct.

[Visions of Khas]

I suppose what you're talking about is Specialization vs Generalization. So you argue individuals under the Conclave specialized more, while under Artanis' leadership, generalization was the name of the game? It takes time, dedication and practice to master a skill, all limited resources. You can't devote an equal amount to everything.


I understand the closed gates of the Conclave to newcomers could have wrongfully placed the incorrect Protoss at the head of the race; but this disappeared after their annihilation.
That assumes systems are not self-perpetuating. It takes time and effort to change. A change in leadership will not immediately effect an entire civilization. Politics will still be at work in the post-Conclave era. Just because Arturus was deposed, do you think all of the Dominion changed over night? No. Retiring every single despicable officer appointed by Arcturus would probably wind up dismantling the entire armed forces and government structure.

[The_Blade]

I'm rather questioning the clone-like physical appearance of the Protoss army, and why it doesn't translate into their leaders or highest skilled warriors.

I understand the Conclave order is preserved to an extent and that many Khalai Protoss alive at the retake of Aiur are former Aiur inhabitants. However, neither unity or specialization solve the clone-like mystery without falling apart for a reason or two. This lack of congruence just triggers my disbelief.

[Visions of Khas]

Haha, I just remembered I analyzed the possibility that the Protoss could be clones over at Blizz's StarCraft Forums (https://us.battle.net/forums/en/sc2/topic/20042985906)!



To copy-paste:

Seriously.

I think it's more than a matter of time and assets; Blizzard went out of their way to differentiate even minor, unnamed Terran characters in Wings of Liberty. The same cannot be said for the Protoss.

Thematic Hints in HotS

This idea was first seeded in my mind in an indirect, nebulous way by Heart of the Swarm. HotS focuses on genetic diversity and speciation. Even individual Zerg from the same breed -- any two hydralisks, say -- possess numerous genetic differences, the result of a molecular arms race between prolific A-type cells, and the phagocytotic B-type cells. Presumably, A-type cells evolve ways in which to resist or elude predation by B-type cells, and B-types adapt themselves accordingly, in an ongoing Red Queen evolution.

Things are further complicated to Zerg's highly receptive cellular structure, assimilating foreign genetic material over successive generations by means of horizontal gene transfer. We may also assume the chimeric A-Type-vs-B-Type evolution is further complicated by this foreign genetic material.

Thematically, Legacy of the Void -- and the Protoss -- should be the exact opposite. The Zerg are biologically diverse in the extreme, though they are unified in mind. The Protoss, then, should be homogeneous in form, but diverse in spirit and mind.

Reinforcement in LotV
Legacy of the Void took this half-thought and firmly grounded it. In LotV, we see Artanis addressing legions of Zealots before the invasion of Aiur. The exact same Zealot model is used over and over and over; aside from customized armor, there is no shred of individuality to be seen.

Case in point, there is a broad array of cultural diversion between the castes of Judicator, Templar and Khalai; and between the Dark Templar and Tal'Darim.

Even the One-Eyed Zealot Kaldalis and the Standard Zealot have the exact same facial features. When the cavalry arrives, there is even more of the same. Even the High Templar are identical, though they differ from the Zealots. We can comment little on Helmet Zealot in this respect, but he does play a role...

... On what little diversity we see.

What little diversity we see may have a limited scope of origins and causes. First is age: young protoss have little facial definition; their scales and scutes develop as they age. (Presumably, females of the species, like in humans, are Paedomorphic -- they retain features of youth as they age -- so their development of scales is limited.) Next is tribal affiliation. Assuming the Helmet Zealot from the cinematic trailer hails from the same tribe as the others, then all three Zealots were from the Akilae tribe. This, by corollary, would mean every Zealot we've seen to date is likewise from the Akilae Tribe. Thirdly, we have the racial disparities between Khalai and Nerazim. Fourth, it's possible that lineage plays a strong role in one's station in life. Say your parents were Zealots? Then -- perhaps by some quirk of genetic-memory and/or Khala-based feedback, or cultural pressure -- you too will pursue that lifestyle.

Cultivars - The Plant Connection

Now clearly we have male and female Protoss, indicating sexual reproduction and genetic recombination. If, however, you're part of a species deemed physically perfect, then the only direction evolution can take you is "down"; any divergence would necessarily be harmful to you and your species. Clearly, perfection is impossible, as admitted by Abathur -- it is an elusive target, but the hunt is its own reward. So we most likely have a component outside genetic transcription at work, something metaphysical or psionic. Indeed, neither Khalai or Nerazim can be assimilated because of the Khala and Void, respectively. Somehow, some genetic/memetic information is being retained within an energy field, perhaps a morphic field. But we have another thing of interest: Protoss' plant-like origins. Cultivars are any variety of plant collected and cultivated for certain qualities. Plant breeders will select for these qualities again and again, sometimes going so far as cloning the plants -- often by means of cuttings, grafts or budding.

My Conclusion

If the Xel'Naga found physical perfection in the Protoss, they would want it to be retained indefinitely. They would put in place a mechanism that makes any deviation or tampering near-impossible. This would necessarily be something metaphysical in nature -- in this case, a psionic field, with the Khala (artificial) or Void (natural) serving as the medium. Then what, then, could the use of males and females be? Certainly more than an atavistic holdover. While their genetics are irrelevent, as their offspring will be an effective clone, the individuality and spirit must be nurtured. Thus, the male and female impart their psychic essence -- their memories, personalities, qualia, etc -- into the next generation, distilling their own personal histories into a new individual...

Effective immortality.

In this light, the means of reproduction are almost irrelevant. The result itself would be the impressive thing.

[drakolobo]

http://pre14.deviantart.net/da3d/th/pre/f/2016/107/a/9/starcraft_2_has_more_unique_faces_compared_to_scbw _by_defilerrulez91-d9zasm4.png

I often see some nostalgifags posts like "Back on StarCraft protoss didn't look all the same"... Yeah... Except that all portraits on multiplayer uses the SAME model/sprite with different lights and camera angles... It's on StarCraft 2 that we really have different protoss faces, even on multiplayer, where we see different skulls, masks and (finally) even female units...
Remember kids, the most important thing is complaining without knowing nothing of what you are talking about, use your brain or gather actual infos before act like a nostalgicfaggot doesn't matter... Kappa

[The_Blade]

Drakolobo, portraits are indeed different. My focus point right now is on copy paste armies.

http://img.52miji.com/52miji/2015/03/21/320b30d923c928ea.jpg
https://www.pcgamesn.com/sites/default/files/Legacy%20of%20the%20Void%20closed%20beta.png

Now back on you:

The reason people complain about the similarities of Protoss in SC2 is related to execution, not content. Hell, there's probably more than 100 assets related to Protoss facials through artwork, cinematic models and portraits in SC2. However, it's the use of these assets in the game that suggests that most Protoss are indeed equal in appearance.

In SC you only saw the faces of a few Protoss during briefings and missions. There was no more "face" input. So, the differences between these characters meant that, just like Humans, Protoss were visually different from one another.
In SC2 we get cinematic that inject more visual information. Here every 24/25 Protoss uses the same model. So, it just appears that aside from heroes everyone else looks the same.

[Gradius]

In SC the skin color was a lot different for every Protoss but in SC2 they're all grey.

[TheEconomist]

Yeah, I remember the blueish, the tealish, the greyish, and the somewhat purpleish.

[Undeadprotoss]

Yeah, I remember the blueish, the tealish, the greyish, and the somewhat purpleish.

I'm gonna have a post on that, hopefully tomorrow, both here and on the official forums.

[Turalyon]

In SC the skin color was a lot different for every Protoss but in SC2 they're all grey.

Thought just occurred to me that maybe the greyness was a specific design choice and not just pure laziness. Perhaps it was a way for them to callback on the thing that inspired the idea of Protoss in the first place: the original alien "greys".

[Undeadprotoss]

http://pre14.deviantart.net/da3d/th/pre/f/2016/107/a/9/starcraft_2_has_more_unique_faces_compared_to_scbw _by_defilerrulez91-d9zasm4.png

I think the photo is kind of missing the point. What mattered is that different portriats in SC1 felt the same because they really did have different skin tones, textures, etc that kept them from feeling homogenus. In SC2, almost every Protoss has light-grey skin and a similar skin pattern. In SC2 they look like a clearly fictional race that are all created in one image, in SC1 they have all kinds of different facial features and tones, like people do, which make them feel/look unique.

[Nissa]

Not to mention that the SC1 designs were meant to convey personalities. Aldaris was clearly arrogant, Tassadar dramatic, and Zeratul grim, and you got the idea all by simply looking at them. As for the SC2 'Toss, they look like statues wearing needlessly complex armor. If you look at those pictures, you'll notice that most of the work was done in the armor. Even the detail that isn't is usually just some face wrinkles on the males.

[KaiserStratosTygo]

Yeah but what do any of us know we're just a bunch of "nostalgia fags with rose-tinted goggles."

Anyone that says that ironically has instantly lost the argument.

[Visions of Khas]

Zeratul, the Immortal, Dragoon, Annihilator and Arbiter all share the same basic head assets. The High Templar, Archon, Dark Archon, and Tassadar likewise share the same assets. Void Rays, Scouts, Corsairs, Dark Templar and Stalker are all masked. The Zealot, Tempest and Stone Zealots are all the same, too.

I just pointed out 9 different portraits using recycled models, and five more that are likely recycled, or are composed in such a way as to obviate the need for a face. And I suspect the Adept's face is a slightly modified Selendis.

[Undeadprotoss]

Can someone please take a look at the Protoss Skin Varation post? It's awesome as hell and it addresses a lot of the points in this thread.