StarCraft 2 was announced 10 years ago today!

[Alex06]

Can you guys believe it? I'm feeling both old and nostalgic right now :O

I remember staying up until 3 AM on a school night to watch the reveal, or at least see some screenshots and have the confirmation that it was SC2.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDIn5vk6ZZo (Coverage of the reveal at WWI 2007, pt. 1)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9Fan5fIT-E (Coverage of the reveal at WWI 2007, pt. 2)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PfkVeI7AiA (First gameplay reveal - Protoss)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ay5W6SDd0zY (Artwork + Gameplay trailer)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JF0o2pXQ_J4 (Protoss units revealed by PC Gamer)

[ragnarok]

Given all the times I've read on the battlenet forums and its criticisms, I'm willing to bet there'd be those who'd now say it would have been better had Blizzard never announced it in the first place.

[KaiserStratosTygo]

Damn, that was back in the day, I remember being so excited, I also remember having a game informer magazine that showed some of this stuff too.

all that hope, positivity and optimism ...

And then the games came out :(

I should've known something was off when there were no Arbiters anywhere.

[Gradius]

Gawd, that gameplay reveal trailer. So much hype! It was actually good.

Admiral Gaskerville vs High Templar. :cool:

[ragnarok]

I should've known something was off when there were no Arbiters anywhere.

You seriously judged it all off that?

[Nissa]

I heard about the game from a guy who knew someone who worked at Blizzard. I was excited for all of two minutes, when then I realized it could never possibly meet the expectations we had for the game.

And then it came out.

Yeah.

[TheEconomist]

I was excited for all of two minutes, when then I realized it could never possibly meet the expectations we had for the game.

That's no way at all to live life :(

[Turalyon]

I was excited for all of two minutes, when then I realized it could never possibly meet the expectations we had for the game.

Huh, it met my expectations. It's just that I didn't actually want it to...

[ragnarok]

Huh, it met my expectations. It's just that I didn't actually want it to...

Then you must have had a very low bar, Tura.

[AryDigital]

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[KaiserStratosTygo]

You seriously judged it all off that?

I said I SHOULD have known, not that I did.

I just assumed Arbiters and units like that weren't ready to show off. I suppose I was kind of right...

it took them almost a decade to get the models out in LotV :/

[Nissa]

That's no way at all to live life :(

Ordinarily I'm not that way, but I think SC:Ghost or something must have put me off. Like, I wasn't convinced that they understood what we fans wanted. That, and feelings were running way high back in the day. I think we all would have been happier just imagining SC2 in our heads.

That, and I feel like gaming in general has changed. Tonewise, something happened, to where games aren't so subtle. Part of it is political correctness, which did affect Blizzard. It's pretty clear, especially with Heart of the Swarm, that they were trying to appeal more to a female audience and force in blunt themes of general equality. Not a great idea.

[TheEconomist]

I think we all would have been happier just imagining SC2 in our heads.

No. Not at all. The MP surpassed or met every reasonable expectation I had. And, if SC2 was never released, I would've gotten bored with SC1 by now anyways, and eihter have moved on anyways or be occasionally miserable because there was never any kind of sequel at all. SC2 isn't enough for me to competely regret its entire existence. MP and SP gameplay are just simply too much of the experience anyways. I love the story of SCBW but I only care about it because of the gameplay of the campaign, vast quantities of UMS/Campaigns and the intense MP. Story is secondary. Its not like StarCraft was ever the greatest, most complex space opera ever created. Put equivalent game play to a Peter F Hamilton epic and I would forget all about StarCraft. But that's not a fair comparison at all.

Diablo 3, however, did as much damage, if not more, to the series than the Star Wars prequels. The world would be a better place without it.

[ragnarok]

I said I SHOULD have known, not that I did.

I just assumed Arbiters and units like that weren't ready to show off. I suppose I was kind of right...

it took them almost a decade to get the models out in LotV :/

They merely wanted to try something new, Stratos. Remember, new ideas aren't always successful...

[RussianSpy27]

I was absolutely trilled when that announcement came in about Wings of Liberty ten years ago and I've been upset ever since the game came out with the childish campaign. Oh well...:(

[ragnarok]

I was absolutely trilled when that announcement came in about Wings of Liberty ten years ago and I've been upset ever since the game came out with the childish campaign. Oh well...:(

Some of us still accepted it, I'm still in the processes of gathering ideas for SC fiction to try to improve upon what Blizzard failed to do

[KaiserStratosTygo]

Eh, the multiplayer was garbage imo, I did about 80 games and just got sick of it always being a deathball match

SP was hardly better, ignoring the elementary school level story-line, the gameplay was typcial of AAA games of that era where its hyper-scripted "you have one way to do a thing" type of levels with a veneer of "choice" in what you put in your death ball.

[TheEconomist]

80 games seven years ago is not enough to judge the multiplayer at it stands now, or even back then. Legacy of the Void is a completely different game from Heart of the Swarm, which was very different from Wings of Liberty. I can say that without exaggeration before I even consider the units. Changes in the speed and starting build orders in Legacy of the Void resulted in matches nothing like in previous expansions.

Plus, again, unless you're Platinum or higher...


SP was hardly better, ignoring the elementary school level story-line, the gameplay was typcial of AAA games of that era where its hyper-scripted "you have one way to do a thing" type of levels with a veneer of "choice" in what you put in your death ball.

Annnnd, unless you played on Brutal ...

[KaiserStratosTygo]

"80 games seven years ago is not enough to judge the multiplayer at it stands now"

I stopped playing in 2012.

and I'd say it was BETTER then it is now, I've seen the mess that is the current multiplayer and I want to vomit. So you're right, but not in the way that you thought.


"Changes in the speed and starting build orders in Legacy of the Void resulted in matches nothing like in previous expansions."

Right, that made it even worse than the previous two (namely WoL which was bad enough)


"Plus, again, unless you're Platinum or higher..."

If the game loses me at silver rank its not going to hold me at any higher level, I have 0 interest in playing that mess again.


"Annnnd, unless you played on Brutal ..."

I beat WoL on every difficulty including Brutal, didn't beat HotS on brutal because Hard was already easy as hell and the campaign was so scripted I had no interest in even playing it again.

LotV I just didn't bother with beyond the sixth or seventh due to more scripted nonsense and the knowing that the story was going to legit piss me off in the end.

[TheEconomist]

You know what they say, opinions are like assholes so who gives a shit.

[ragnarok]

Eh, the multiplayer was garbage imo, I did about 80 games and just got sick of it always being a deathball match

SP was hardly better, ignoring the elementary school level story-line, the gameplay was typcial of AAA games of that era where its hyper-scripted "you have one way to do a thing" type of levels with a veneer of "choice" in what you put in your death ball.

I felt the whole choice thing in WoL was meh anyway.

[Nissa]

No. Not at all. The MP surpassed or met every reasonable expectation I had. And, if SC2 was never released, I would've gotten bored with SC1 by now anyways, and eihter have moved on anyways or be occasionally miserable because there was never any kind of sequel at all. SC2 isn't enough for me to competely regret its entire existence. MP and SP gameplay are just simply too much of the experience anyways. I love the story of SCBW but I only care about it because of the gameplay of the campaign, vast quantities of UMS/Campaigns and the intense MP. Story is secondary. Its not like StarCraft was ever the greatest, most complex space opera ever created. Put equivalent game play to a Peter F Hamilton epic and I would forget all about StarCraft. But that's not a fair comparison at all.

Diablo 3, however, did as much damage, if not more, to the series than the Star Wars prequels. The world would be a better place without it.

I'll take your word on Diablo. I'm not terribly interested in that franchise.

As for Starcraft, I disagree. Yes, people would have been tired of SC by now if the second game hadn't come out, but quite frankly, SC2 did almost nothing to generate interest -- unless by "interest," you count trying the games briefly and then complaining about them later on these forums, with the few people cranky enough to complain with you. And that's just us old fans. I have a irl friend who played SC2 without playing the original, and he is pretty meh about it. He's not going to be playing the game anymore, unless I nag him into playing the old game remaster. Which I probably will.

Heck, that's probably why Blizz is creating the remaster: to remind everyone why people liked the games in the first place.

[KaiserStratosTygo]

I mean it did drum up interest.

just not any sustained interest.

it went back into obscurity around the time HotS came out.

[TheEconomist]

You people seem to have difficulty comprehending that there dozens (hundreds?) of thousands of people who still play the MP. Its not all about the SP. Half the talk about the quality of SC2 could be avoided if you would just remember that.

[Turalyon]

it went back into obscurity around the time HotS came out.

How do you figure that? HotS and LotV sold more than a million copies each on the first two days of release. That doesn't sound like "back into obscurity" to me.

Sure, it may have died down after those releases but what the hell else doesn't? They're still making patches and content for Co-op so nah, there's still plenty of interest in terms of the gaming side of Sc2.

The interest in the lore and story stuff of Sc2 on the otherhand... Well, they decided to stop making more stuff like Nova: Covert Ops for the near future in favour of focusing on co-op, so that certainly tells you something.

[ragnarok]

I mean it did drum up interest.

just not any sustained interest.

it went back into obscurity around the time HotS came out.

Hmmm, don't recall that. Link please?

[Sheliek]

I remember two days before the announcement, I'd heard all the buzz about the rumoured annoucement at WWI and was hyped, and then on Friday there were a bunch of cops at my high school because an unknown student had made a threat to shoot up the school that day. I was so worried I'd die and not get to see the announcement for what I strongly suspected and hoped was StarCraft II. Nothing ended up happening. Just a random story.

[TheEconomist]

I remember two days before the announcement, I'd heard all the buzz about the rumoured annoucement at WWI and was hyped, and then on Friday there were a bunch of cops at my high school because an unknown student had made a threat to shoot up the school that day. I was so worried I'd die and not get to see the announcement for what I strongly suspected and hoped was StarCraft II. Nothing ended up happening. Just a random story.

Haha! I feels ya brah. I used to always joke when people would get shot at my high school or something else happened that, if I died, I would never get to see StarCraft II and that, after I played StarCraft II, I could die happily. Sadly, I was only half-joking. THAT'S how much I loved StarCraft at that time. It's not even Blizzard's fault that dwindled. That's just growing up and getting better priorities.

[ragnarok]

I remember two days before the announcement, I'd heard all the buzz about the rumoured annoucement at WWI and was hyped, and then on Friday there were a bunch of cops at my high school because an unknown student had made a threat to shoot up the school that day. I was so worried I'd die and not get to see the announcement for what I strongly suspected and hoped was StarCraft II. Nothing ended up happening. Just a random story.

It's ok, those things tend to happen. Back when I lived in Phoenix, AZ, there's the occasional gun threats as well.

[KaiserStratosTygo]

How do you figure that? HotS and LotV sold more than a million copies each on the first two days of release. That doesn't sound like "back into obscurity" to me.

Sure, it may have died down after those releases but what the hell else doesn't? They're still making patches and content for Co-op so nah, there's still plenty of interest in terms of the gaming side of Sc2.

The interest in the lore and story stuff of Sc2 on the otherhand... Well, they decided to stop making more stuff like Nova: Covert Ops for the near future in favour of focusing on co-op, so that certainly tells you something.

Because outside of our little SC franchise bubble nobody else gives a shit anymore, the game pretty much died in Korea, and its MP scene has faded to a shadow of its formal self.

DED GAEM

[TheEconomist]

The exact opposite is true. Sure, SC2 quickly lost the eSports dominance, but so did SCBW, and that has to do more with a changing industry. But, the truth is, is that StarCraft II did extremely well by any realistic standard. Even the story was good to the normies.

[Nissa]

Not true. My normie friend was "meh" about it, and I still haven't met many people who even know what Starcraft is.

[TheEconomist]

Sample size of one. Very convincing.

I see your n=1 and raise you most of the reviews on GameRankings.com

[Gradius]

Sample size of one. Very convincing.

I see your n=1 and raise you most of the reviews on GameRankings.com
Savage.

[TheEconomist]

I mean, I hate to defend Blizzard, but, ridiculous is ridiculous. My life is not worse for StarCraft II being made. It's simply not THAT bad at all. There are redeeming qualities to it.

[KaiserStratosTygo]

The exact opposite is true. Sure, SC2 quickly lost the eSports dominance, but so did SCBW, and that has to do more with a changing industry. But, the truth is, is that StarCraft II did extremely well by any realistic standard. Even the story was good to the normies.

BW is still a major contender in Korean E-sports, so no.

Secondly SC2's story was forgotten by the "normies" who played it once and went to the MP (and then left to play the next HIP game)

The story was pretty terrible by even less story inclined people, hell I knew people that liked it but admitted that it was more like the stories of the transformers films.

- - - Updated - - -


BW is still a major contender in Korean E-sports, so no.

Secondly SC2's story was forgotten by the "normies" who played it once and went to the MP (and then left to play the next HIP game)

The story was pretty terrible by even less story inclined people, hell I knew people that liked it but admitted that it was more like the stories of the transformers films.


"My life is not worse for StarCraft II being made. It's simply not THAT bad at all. There are redeeming qualities to it."


Mine isn't either, but lets call a spade a spade, SC2 is a shit game, bad core gameplay, abysmal story-telling and toy-like art design.

whatever redeeming qualities it may have i'd love to hear them.

An electronic interactive product that has passed away

[TheEconomist]

BW is still a major contender in Korean E-sports, so no.

If SC2 is dead, so is BW. And so are all non-MOBA/FPS games. No moving goal posts.


Secondly SC2's story was forgotten by the "normies" who played it once and went to the MP (and then left to play the next HIP game)

Every game is forgotten after playing for casual players. The simple fact is that, for some reason, they enjoyed the 'experience' of the story, even if not the story itself. If anyone thinks about the story much outside of game play, they aren't the average gamer.



The story was pretty terrible by even less story inclined people, hell I knew people that liked it but admitted that it was more like the stories of the transformers films.

'Kay, so, sample size of .. what ... n=+-3? See above response.



In short, citation needed.

Also, seek therapy. You rehash the same shit over and over and get yourself into a rage. Who the fuck cares?

Finally, I am done.

[Turalyon]

Mine isn't either, but lets call a spade a spade, SC2 is a shit game, bad core gameplay, abysmal story-telling and toy-like art design.

whatever redeeming qualities it may have i'd love to hear them.

You're overreaching. Many people still play it, so there's definitely an appeal somewhere even if you can't see it.

Now... if you had said C&C4 instead, I'd be all aboard.

[TheEconomist]

C&C4 was so bad I got it for free and felt ripped off because I had to spend time downloading the damn thing.

[Nissa]

Sample size of one. Very convincing.

I see your n=1 and raise you most of the reviews on GameRankings.com

I mentioned multiple people in my post. That is, the general lack of people who know about Starcraft, ie the general lack of people who were made aware of Starcraft by SC2's existence.

But you can ignore what I'm saying if you wish to continue to be self-righteous.

[TheEconomist]

Fine. Sample size of 5. 10. 15. 20. Doesn't matter. You need a sample size of 1,000 to even begin to analyze anything in Economics. I've heard you can go as low as 400 for obscure medical inquiries. Political questionnaires, which are notoriously misleading, routinely have problems from having about 200 Either way, more than you have, therefore, statistically inconclusive, to say the least. Especially when your sample is non-random and non-representative of the population .. and when it goes contrary to what larger aggregate say.

Also, a lot of people have never heard of The Witcher 3. Doesn't mean it didn't break review records and sell in the multiple millions. Meanwhile, Diablo III was the fastest selling PC game of all time, it was trash, and still many people don't know about Diablo.

[KaiserStratosTygo]

"If SC2 is dead, so is BW. And so are all non-MOBA/FPS games. No moving goal posts."

BW is a 20 year old game, SC2's last expansion only came out 2 years ago, SC2 has 0 excuse.


"Also, seek therapy. You rehash the same shit over and over and get yourself into a rage. Who the fuck cares?"

lol, What rage? the only rage here is coming from you, my dude. go be a hypocrite elsewhere, lmao.

Take your own advice, buddy.


"You're overreaching. Many people still play it, so there's definitely an appeal somewhere even if you can't see it."

Never said there wasn't one, I just don't understand what it is, because it hits all the wrong notes, its like doing an elegant piece of music entirely in G major, its just dissonant.


"Now... if you had said C&C4 instead, I'd be all aboard."

That piece of shit just straight up killed the franchise : (

that literally is a dead game. I think I got about 2 hours into it and quit, I remember sometime in 2011/2012 where I lost the CD and was like "and nothing of value was lost"

[ragnarok]

C&C4 was so bad I got it for free and felt ripped off because I had to spend time downloading the damn thing.

I'm surprised you actually got C&C4. I mostly just watched it off youtube and that was enough for me.

[KaiserStratosTygo]

I'm surprised you actually got C&C4. I mostly just watched it off youtube and that was enough for me.

That's what I should've done, but alas....

[sandwich_bird]

SC2 is a great game by most sensible objective metrics you can come up with or with any realistic comparative analysis you can make. You might not personally like it, but the fact that it's "good" is fairly undeniable and arguing against this is pretty futile. Just check the metacritic... http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/starcraft-ii-wings-of-liberty

Though it is irrelevant, I'd like to point out that I still think the story is damn stupid and there are definitely things I prefer about SC1 but I still appreciated the whole package.

[ragnarok]

That's what I should've done, but alas....

When I first saw the previews for it and saw how different it was, I decided to watch a little bit off youtube first (once the game was out and people did LPs), and THEN decide if I should buy it or not.

[TheEconomist]

You can reminisce about the peak of SCBW eSports if you want, but the fact is, for most people, SC1 MP was a choice between Big Game Hunters and Fastest Map Possible. From there the only variation was whether you have the noob ally who couldn't survive the six pool, the noob ally who who failcannons, or the noob ally who just plain doesn't have the APM to kick it. SC1 with wide variation in skill was infuriating at the time. Match making and map variation alone make SC2 vastly superior in actual playing. I remember having to wait in lobby for ten minutes just to get someone to play something that was BGH/FMP, and even then it had to be a Blizz map because people wouldn't play maps they had to download. The whole ICCUP serious melee grind was only a few years out of my decade or so of playing the game.

That is why I am anxiously anticipating SC Remaster. Time to REALLY enjoy SC to the fullest. And I'll be gotdamned if I ever play Big Game Hunters again.

[KaiserStratosTygo]

I don't know, I had to deal with playing the same 2 or 3 maps in Populous 3 as well for YEARS and it was a blast, because the core gameplay was good enough to hold the game.

same with SC1, yeah BGH got old as did Lost Temple (I didn't bother with FMP because that shit suuuuuuuuuuucked) but the core gameplay for SC1 was just so good and fun that I could deal with playing the same few maps

(and btw I managed to get non-bgh/lost temple melee games every now and then, though it was a lot of twiight maps for some reason.)

SC2 might have a lot of played maps (in melee, in the arcade its the same dogshit every damn day, there is no excuse for this with the unlimited complexity of the editor) the game might have all those maps but with a shitty gameplay style to hold it up, its basically window dressing.


"That is why I am anxiously anticipating SC Remaster. Time to REALLY enjoy SC to the fullest. And I'll be gotdamned if I ever play Big Game Hunters again."

We agree on this at least, I've been training (against the BWAI) on some of the popular korean maps, hopefully those will be used more often in the US.

[TheEconomist]

You have clearly been driven insane by nostalgia so I can't really find a place to get in to actually debate with you so I guess we'll just agree to disagree.

We should game in SC:R though. After you've sobered up from a few SCBW games and remember the game for what it really was (my recent replay binge definitely put things in perspective) then maybe we can enjoy this new SCBW experience. Assuming you can pass for at least a platinum level player after you practice, that is. I've already done ten years of carrying noobs in SCBW team games and I'm not doing anymore now that there's match making :D

[KaiserStratosTygo]

"You have clearly been driven insane by nostalgia "

I don't think you know how "nostalgia" works.

nostalgia can only function if it's in the past, I haven't gone more than a month since 2003 without playing a StarCraft I game.


"then maybe we can enjoy this new SCBW experience. Assuming you can pass for at least a platinum level player after you practice, that is. I've already done ten years of carrying noobs in SCBW team games and I'm not doing anymore now that there's match making "

I'd probably get my ass kicked, I've played for years but I think i reached my cap due to my slow keystroke speed, but yeah, we should duke it out one of these days, nonetheless.

[Nissa]

Econ, I love you like a crazy, drunk uncle, but chill out. This ain't worth getting legit angry over.

Unlike that Protoss victory art. Butt ugly, and Blizz should be ashamed. Seriously, dude looks like he's wearing a thong. Even more than he already did.

I'll admit I've heard of people liking the SC2 story, but I've never met any, online or irl. Like, what is a thing people say when they say the story is "good"? At best people seem to like the cinematics, but that's really about visuals more than story.

[LordofAscension]

I remember watching SC2 be announced. I was so full of hope.

Needless to say, I'm definitely looking forward to SC:R. I need true Tassadar back in my life.

~LoA