The things that you liked are the products of pure luck

[sandwich_bird]

(unless you believe in determinism :) )

https://starcraft.com/en-us/articles/20719767


“There wasn’t a lot of thought process,” says Didier. “It was more of—let’s put this in, and boom. That’s our Siege Tank. That’s our Battlecruiser. There was no going back, no ‘Hey, can we redo this?’ There was no desire for that. It was cool, just as it was.”


“When we made these races, we just threw a bunch of crap at the wall and saw what stuck,”


StarCraft’s development embodies this philosophy of wild, spontaneous innovation. For instance, its cinematics entered production long before the rest of the game had been solidified. When he started out, Sousa says, “even the units weren’t done! We were like, well I don’t know what the Terran units look like, so . . . just go with this.”


At the time, nobody had any idea what the main storyline was going to be. The animators pulled together quirky self-contained scenes, choosing characters and topics almost on a whim. Sousa recounts a typical planning session:

“What are you doing next?”

“Ahh, there’s a guy driving through the desert, and they run over a Zergling.”

“Okay, well, then what happens?”

“Ehh . . . then a bunch more zerg show up.”


Also, the art style of SC2 is clearly closer to what Didier always wanted.


“Everything on PC at that time was photorealistic, or trying to be, with realistic proportions, and we just said, It doesn’t look cool. What we started trying to do with Warcraft was max things out. And then in StarCraft, instead of having one gun, it was three guns, and they were all chunky,” says Didier. “The ‘Blizzard Style’ was inspired by a technical necessity—from trying to make things translate.”



“I remember being in a little room, working on something, and my boss would say ‘Okay cool, make it gray, and maybe lean it up—make it taller and leaner.’

And then, after my boss was gone, Sammy would walk over and say ‘Cool cool cool. Alright, make it bigger, and shorter, and more colorful.’”

[TheEconomist]

Wow, amazing. Although that does explain why I like the SCBW cinematics so much more. The Amerigo cinematic is better than anything in SC2 IMO. And even something simple like the Fenix cinematic has more to it somehow. I guess because they were self-contained and for their own sake. Like (very) short films instead of cutscenes.

Also, Fuck Samwise Didier.

[Gradius]

“I remember being in a little room, working on something, and my boss would say ‘Okay cool, make it gray, and maybe lean it up—make it taller and leaner.’

And then, after my boss was gone, Sammy would walk over and say ‘Cool cool cool. Alright, make it bigger, and shorter, and more colorful.’”
Ugh. <_<

[Undeadprotoss]

I don't think it's pure luck. Just an element of luck, remember that a huge part of the asthetic design of the Protoss, Terran, and Zerg was influenced by the manual. I'll post more on this later, hopefully.

[KaiserStratosTygo]

I knew that for years though.

We were lucky, especially me, because I wouldn't have got into this series if it was closer to SC2's design, that game has no holding power for me.

[sandwich_bird]

I knew that for years though.

I always thought that Starcraft had a less "democratic" development. I thought only ~3 people where the "product owners", the "visionaries" if you want. I guess I was wrong. Everyone mostly just did their own thing and when they threw it all together it actually ended up good.

Also, unrelated, I always thought Protoss were based on Predators. They might still be but the article states that they basically took the typical grey alien concept and infused it with the "blizzard cool" style. That worked!


Wow, amazing. Although that does explain why I like the SCBW cinematics so much more. The Amerigo cinematic is better than anything in SC2 IMO. And even something simple like the Fenix cinematic has more to it somehow. I guess because they were self-contained and for their own sake. Like (very) short films instead of cutscenes.

Blizzard's cinematic team is made of the true MVPs.

[Turalyon]

I always thought that Starcraft had a less "democratic" development. I thought only ~3 people where the "product owners", the "visionaries" if you want.

I think you're talking about Sc2 here, not Sc1. True creativity is born from chaos.

[TheEconomist]

Also, unrelated, I always thought Protoss were based on Predators.

I always thought this as well. I think this even more so after reading some of the Alien/Predator (not AvP) trilogies. Synopsis of some of the trilogies reads remkarkably like SC1. In fact, my scifi life at the moment can be broken down to reading AvP novels for nostalgia (almost like it were SC novels) and then, of course, reading harder, more complex scifi. Only difference between now and before is that AvP=SC novels to me. AvP and StarCraft are so similiar I can almost get the same feels and forget about SC2.


I always thought that Starcraft had a less "democratic" development. I thought only ~3 people where the "product owners", the "visionaries" if you want.

I also thought the same thing, with Chris Metzen being some kind of God-head of it all. Come to found out, it was the exact opposite. And, now, I hear that Samwise has been plotting from the beginning to destroy the art like Metzen and the story.

Now, if definitely seems like these same people actively sought to destroy SC2 once they had less checks on their 'creativity'.

Again, Fuck Samwise Didier.

[KaiserStratosTygo]

I always thought that Starcraft had a less "democratic" development. I thought only ~3 people where the "product owners", the "visionaries" if you want. I guess I was wrong. Everyone mostly just did their own thing and when they threw it all together it actually ended up good.

Also, unrelated, I always thought Protoss were based on Predators. They might still be but the article states that they basically took the typical grey alien concept and infused it with the "blizzard cool" style. That worked!



Blizzard's cinematic team is made of the true MVPs.

Yeah a lot of people kept thinking that Protoss were based on the Eldar or something and I knew that wasn't the case, I too thought there was some predator there but I always kept telling people that they were partially based on the greys (like the ones from Xcom who're all psychic)

It makes sense, since the Protoss are usually kind of spindly and have no mouths.

[Gradius]

I always suspected the protoss were based off greys. They're psychic brain aliens with advanced technology. The only predator vibe I get from protoss are their foreheads and nerve cords.

[TheEconomist]

That's true, if we're only talking physical characteristics. But there's just so too many similarities between Protoss and Predators to count. Like, yes, their overall physical appearance, but they're also a trope.

And their hunter instinct, and their preference for physical combat, and their pseudo-religion surrounding constant conflict, and their technology, and their building architecture (Pyramids), and their purpose in killing Zerg/Xenomorphs, and .. and ...

I'm inclined to also argue they're based more on Predators (Yautja) because of the remarkably similarities in he overall story arch between the two franchises

Not really relevant, but whatevs, maybe interesting?

Here's a synopsis of the Female War:

1) Humans invade Predators space to investigate and capitalize on Xenomorphs.
2) Predators destroy human settlements (but not worlds) to prevent Xenomorph outbreaks and human mettling
3) Whispers of a super advanced ancient race that created the Xenomorphs that the Predators are super interested in.
4) A fleet of super advanced human comes into the sector to deal with aliens and humans (for revenge) and are the most advanced thing in the sector for a period of time.
5) Add in the general similarities between Zerg/Xenimorphs, Protoss/Predators, and the greedy corporations/Terrans, and it's remarkably similiar.

And since this story arch I refer to stems from the canon in the late 80's, early 90's, there's also a timing factor.

Although I guess we're talking about physical appearance here (I didn't bother to re-read), in which case, it's all probably inspired by conspiracy theory greys as much as anything like the Eldar, or what not. I know DoW expert, but the Dark/Light Eldar (or w/e) factor can't be discounted.

I guess Blizzard just ripped a little bit of everything.

Not really an argument for anything here, just wanted to yap :D

[TcheQuevara]

I think the Protoss, despite being very similar to both Eldar and Predators, are the most original creation in SC. But overall, all the three races, although all familiar and recalling of other sci-fi works (this is way it feels so much like sci-fi), are also all very unique. The explanation Blizzard gives to this is that they give their "twist" to things that are already there. It is true but a design philosophy based on "twists" can only go so far.

You know, I used to go to a hommie of mine's place. His dad used to make those smoothies, we call them vitaminas in Brazil, which is mixing a lot of fruits without a defined recipe. And his vitaminas were always the best. And on day we ask him, "uncle, what's the secret, how are those smoothies always so good" and he says a little distracted, "you know, the banana is good, the mango is good, the apple is good, the smoothie ends up good".

When I started acting I thought this applied to theatre too. The acting is good, story is good, scenes are good, musics are good, it has to work, right? And it always worked for my company. But later I figured: it doesn't always work for movies or for many plays I watched.

People are trying to figure this out since 2400 years ago. All those discussions of the perfect formula to create narratives which Hollywood is saturated with, it all start's with Aristotle's Poetics. He offers there one way to craft great tragedies: empathy, catastrophe, change. But there are other ways too.

Like "Uncle Smoothie"s poetics. It isn't dumb luck. There's a method to this madness: bring on what's best from everyone, and it's gonna be great. But this doesn't always work. And Aristotle's formula doesn't always work, neither does George Lucas' formula or Disney's formula. The thing we got to understand is that the method behind Starcraft is a method, and if it works deeply is because it was built deeply, because all that inspiration was very deep because it was so fresh, so happy, so joyful coming out of creators. And not much is learned from it because you can't reproduce this conditions, you can't decide how much inspired you are for a work. The best in this case is to learn from the experience of playing a good game or enjoying a good character concept without trying to learn any hard rules, because the most and best part of creation is not about the hard rules.

[Turalyon]

Yeah a lot of people kept thinking that Protoss were based on the Eldar or something and I knew that wasn't the case

There was a rumour (or is it a confirmed fact?) that the first Warcraft was initially intended to be Wahammer game but Blizz couldn't get the license from GW. It's kinda eery then that just like GW releasing 40K after fantasy Warhammer, Blizz goes on to release a sci-fi riff after their fantasy property, which was initially criticised as Warcraft in Space in its first build. Coincidence or not?

[TheEconomist]

I've heard it so much it must be true ... :D

[Nissa]

I'm kinda suspicious that art is based on not being able to think too hard on anything, and thus spoil the works. You think some, but let impulses do work for you.

I dunno. This is the sort of thing that all artists/writers will be thinking about forever.

[KaiserStratosTygo]

There was a rumour (or is it a confirmed fact?) that the first Warcraft was initially intended to be Wahammer game but Blizz couldn't get the license from GW. It's kinda eery then that just like GW releasing 40K after fantasy Warhammer, Blizz goes on to release a sci-fi riff after their fantasy property, which was initially criticised as Warcraft in Space in its first build. Coincidence or not?

The first is true (or very likely)

Blizzard making a space game however really doesn't mean much for any connection to 40K since there's no real evidence connecting the two beyond (they look kinda similiar at a glance without context)

[Turalyon]

^ Makes you wonder thouhg since the progression of their IP development are similar. I wonder if GW got any heat when they first released WH40K for just being "Warhammer in Space". I also wonder if the failure of getting the GW license for what became Warcraft, spurred Blizz to make Starcraft partly as a subtle "flip-the-bird" to GW.

[Visions of Khas]

There was a rumour (or is it a confirmed fact?) that the first Warcraft was initially intended to be Wahammer game but Blizz couldn't get the license from GW. It's kinda eery then that just like GW releasing 40K after fantasy Warhammer, Blizz goes on to release a sci-fi riff after their fantasy property, which was initially criticised as Warcraft in Space in its first build. Coincidence or not?

I read that this was intentional on Blizzard's part. Moreover, it's part of the reason we have no more cerebrates. I ran across this on a reddit thread a while back: "Also, outside canon reason according to one of the artist's deviantart they removed Cerebrates as someone thought they were too similar to Tyranids and they wanted to "play nice with Games Workshop." Which doesn't make much sense since Cerebrates are one of the few things without a Tyranid equivalent." I'll need to find a direct quote.

[Gradius]

I read that this was intentional on Blizzard's part. Moreover, it's part of the reason we have no more cerebrates. I ran across this on a reddit thread a while back: "Also, outside canon reason according to one of the artist's deviantart they removed Cerebrates as someone thought they were too similar to Tyranids and they wanted to "play nice with Games Workshop." Which doesn't make much sense since Cerebrates are one of the few things without a Tyranid equivalent." I'll need to find a direct quote.
Yeah I read that too. Makes no sense.

[Turalyon]

I read that this was intentional on Blizzard's part. Moreover, it's part of the reason we have no more cerebrates. I ran across this on a reddit thread a while back: "Also, outside canon reason according to one of the artist's deviantart they removed Cerebrates as someone thought they were too similar to Tyranids and they wanted to "play nice with Games Workshop." Which doesn't make much sense since Cerebrates are one of the few things without a Tyranid equivalent." I'll need to find a direct quote.

I'm guessing the similarities are to do with lesser Tyranid creatures relying on "Synapse", a psychic power that larger/advanced Tyranid creatures use on lesser ones in order to keep them under control and which, if destroyed, cause the lesser creatures to go in a feral state - much like the Zerg.

[sandwich_bird]

they wanted to "play nice with Games Workshop."

That's just... I'd start by redoing the marine armor if anything. I guess they did in SC2. Related?

But anyways, the way I see it, the WH40k franchise is like a sci-fi theme park that puts anything cool they can in. Making a sci-fi without having some kind of connection to something else in WH40k is impossible so I don't know why they'd draw a line there. Not like they ever drew a line for Warcraft(WC is probably the biggest fantasy theme park ever made at this point).

[Undeadprotoss]

There's a pretty interesting thread up in Space Battles (https://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/influences-on-starcraft.208762/) that looks over the similarities between the Zerg and the Tyranids and other WH40K comparisons. Supposedly the Tyranids looked radically different than they do know than at the time SC came out.