StarCraft: Evolution

[Gradius]

http://starcraft.wikia.com/wiki/StarCraft:_Evolution

The latest SC book



The war between the terrans, the protoss, and the zerg has been over for years, but the fight for peace is still being waged. As the Terran Dominion struggles to recover from the ravages of war, Emperor Valerian Mengsk has no intention of ruling in the same bloody manner as his father, the late Arcturus Mengsk. Instead of seeking vengeance, Valerian is determined to maintain the peace. So when he receives an urgent plea for aid from Zagara, Overqueen of the savage zerg Swarm, he agrees to hear her case despite his personal misgivings and the severe disapproval of Hierarch Artanis of the protoss.


Zagara claims that the Swarm has changed. No longer bent on destruction, they have revitalized the planet Gystt, once thought to be irreparable after its incineration by the protoss during wartime. Now the zerg wish only to live there in peace and nurture new life. But when Dominion agents—a hard-bitten marine, an unpredictable reaper, an idealistic xenobiologist, a former ghost operative, and an enigmatic protoss researcher—arrive to investigate the planet, they suspect that not all of the zerg are truly dedicated to Zagara’s dream of harmonious paradise. Gystt hides dark secrets, and should they be unleashed, it will mean disaster for the universe.


Not to prejudge, but this seems terrible. The StarCraft universe has been molested so much it's unbelievable... :/

[Visions of Khas]

Well, it is Timothy Zahn, so I'll reserve judgment until we get some excerpts.

I can't see Zagara forging a world of paradise however. Maybe, as the research team studies Gystt, it will also serve as Zagara's own research lab to study the terrans and protoss in turn.

[Robear]

Not to prejudge, but this seems terrible.

Only seems terrible if anyone actually believes Zagara. The Zerg shouldn't be anything but murderous.

[ragnarok]

http://starcraft.wikia.com/wiki/StarCraft:_Evolution

The latest SC book



Not to prejudge, but this seems terrible. The StarCraft universe has been molested so much it's unbelievable... :/

Oh that. Look Gradius, you can argue all you want that this is going completely against everything the Zerg stand for (if Zagara is being sincere), but it's no different than what happened in the case with the Tal'darim in LotV.

Remember what Artanis and Vorazun discussed: although servitude to Amon is all they've known, they've been lied to, so once Amon is taken care of, they'll be free to discover what they want to be.

In a similar way it's not much different from the Zerg (though there's much greater skepticism): even with the primal Zerg, their upbringing was something done by Amon. It's entirely possible that had Amon NOT interfered (assuming the Zerg parasites could actually survive Zerus's harsh environment), they would have been able to try to discover their real purpose.

Remember what Duran said in Into the Void: "The swarm had one purpose: to assimilate the Protoss and create the hybrid. Now, you are no longer needed." Thus the whole point of both the primals and corrupted Zerg was merely to pave the way for Amon's master race. Now they have to find a new purpose.


Only seems terrible if anyone actually believes Zagara. The Zerg shouldn't be anything but murderous.

The Daelaam are already skeptical, but given that the Zerg upbringing was done by Amon, they should now find their own path. Granted this shouldn't be TOO much different from their murderous mentality....

[Turalyon]

The StarCraft universe has been molested so much it's unbelievable... :/

There, there Starcraft. Just close your eyes and think of England. :p

In seriousness though, I'm sure there'd be more to this than what it looks like. It could be revealed (what a twist!) to be a ploy by Zagara or some other malevolent force trying to take over the Zerg again (surprise!) or... whatever.

At this point, the Zerg (and anything to do with them) in Starcraft are expected to be nothing more than convenient plot devices. Either way, by the end of the book I'm certain it will either a) maintain the current status quo with everything all being dandy and peaceful still or b) go back to the previous status quo where all the races start fighting each other again. I'm guessing it's going to be the latter.

[ragnarok]

There, there Starcraft. Just close your eyes and think of England. :p

In seriousness though, I'm sure there'd be more to this than what it looks like. It could be revealed (what a twist!) to be a ploy by Zagara or some other malevolent force trying to take over the Zerg again (surprise!) or... whatever.


Not likely. The SC2 stories have gotten for the most part predictable. Likely the lessons Kerrigan tried to teach Zagara is for her to find another path for the Zerg, something that doesn't involve killing everyone. Course, the audience probably won't approve because we've known the swarm to be killing machines for so long, few people could see them to be anything but that.

[KaiserStratosTygo]

Sounds vile.

but I don't read these garbage books anyway, they always mangle the lore but in this case it's already been mangled beyond repair.

[Sheliek]

It could be good, it could be bad. I'll wait until I see excerpts for the writing quality, and the whole work before judging the story. Zagara could be studying the terrans and protoss; she needs to learn how they behave, after all.

It could be a flat-out trap by her or renegade zerg. We know there's still feral zerg throughout the sector, and rogue brood-mothers and primal packs are hardly out of the question even if Zagara is being genuinely peaceful.

[RODTHEGOD]

Well that sounds horrible

[ragnarok]

Sounds vile.

but I don't read these garbage books anyway, they always mangle the lore but in this case it's already been mangled beyond repair.

That's your problem, Stratos. You keep criticizing the whole series. Granted I too have my doubts, but it could turn out well. It'll just be weird to see the Zerg acting differently.

[KaiserStratosTygo]

That's your problem, Stratos. You keep criticizing the whole series. Granted I too have my doubts, but it could turn out well. It'll just be weird to see the Zerg acting differently.

And I will continue to do so.

The story needs to pull an aircraft carrier out of a hat before I start giving it an inch of leeway.

[Visions of Khas]

It could be good, it could be bad. I'll wait until I see excerpts for the writing quality, and the whole work before judging the story. Zagara could be studying the terrans and protoss; she needs to learn how they behave, after all.

That's my thought. I think she's using it as a way to learn more about the Terran and Zerg. The Queen of Blades originated from "human stock", after all, and she provided immense power to the Swarm.


It could be a flat-out trap by her or renegade zerg. We know there's still feral zerg throughout the sector, and rogue brood-mothers and primal packs are hardly out of the question even if Zagara is being genuinely peaceful.

I don't think she's being peaceful. Under Kerrigan's leadership, Zagara was taught ruthlessness, deceit, along with self-improvement and "vision" (I'm guessing this just means long-term planning and lateral thinking). I think Zagara is trying her hand at being the true successor to the Queen of Blades we all knew and loved back in Brood War, and that maybe the other Swarm Queens haven't been let on to her true plan, hence their opposition. And knowing Zahn's penchant for political intrigue and twists, I see him pulling this off well.

[Turalyon]

I don't think she's being peaceful. Under Kerrigan's leadership, Zagara was taught ruthlessness, deceit, along with self-improvement and "vision" (I'm guessing this just means long-term planning and lateral thinking). I think Zagara is trying her hand at being the true successor to the Queen of Blades we all knew and loved back in Brood War, and that maybe the other Swarm Queens haven't been let on to her true plan, hence their opposition. And knowing Zahn's penchant for political intrigue and twists, I see him pulling this off well.

Political intrigue and Zerg aren't exactly a natural combination though. We already know that the Zerg are all about themselves and are already having doubts about Zagara being sincere, so it makes the whole notion of them being peaceful at all quite gimmicky.

Also, BW gets flak for the characters being dumb in how they respond to Kerrigan but at least there is at least a legitimate case of defense in that those characters had to trust the devil they know or risk potentially worse consequences in the UED. I'm not sure if this is the same thing for Valerian here though since he has more to gain if decides not to help (the murderous Zerg are weakening and he maintains good terms with the Protoss with all the benefits that brings) than the potential risks of helping (it could be a trap, it strengthens the Zerg for future possible actions against the Terrans and political fallout from within and without since I'm sure both Terrans and Protoss in general would not want to assist the Zerg). It think it'd be more palatable if it were made out as if Valerian was taking action to investigate things rather than buying into what Zagara is saying/ actually helping the Zerg.

[ragnarok]

I don't think she's being peaceful. Under Kerrigan's leadership, Zagara was taught ruthlessness, deceit, along with self-improvement and "vision" (I'm guessing this just means long-term planning and lateral thinking). I think Zagara is trying her hand at being the true successor to the Queen of Blades we all knew and loved back in Brood War, and that maybe the other Swarm Queens haven't been let on to her true plan, hence their opposition. And knowing Zahn's penchant for political intrigue and twists, I see him pulling this off well.

VoK, we know that under Kerrigan's command. But LotV gave us a completely new revelation to the Zerg, since their entire purpose had been merely to breed the master race by Amon. Now that he's gone, they can choose for themselves what to do. If they want to keep going with what they're going, that's fine too.

[Gradius]

I don't think zerg as savvy politicians is much better than the idea of peaceful zerg. It's not very in line with their theme of forced evolution through constant trials and selection pressures. Sure, maybe Kerrigan did some political maneuvering, but she's an infested human. I mean come on, the team suspects "that not all of the zerg are truly dedicated to Zagara’s dream of harmonious paradise"?" I didn't know they were a democracy. Expecting the author to salvage such an awful sounding concept is like asking a voice actor to salvage a poorly written character.

[ragnarok]

I don't think zerg as savvy politicians is much better than the idea of peaceful zerg. It's not very in line with their theme of forced evolution through constant trials and selection pressures. Sure, maybe Kerrigan did some political maneuvering, but she's an infested human. I mean come on, the team suspects "that not all of the zerg are truly dedicated to Zagara’s dream of harmonious paradise"?" I didn't know they were a democracy. Expecting the author to salvage such an awful sounding concept is like asking a voice actor to salvage a poorly written character.

I don't expect them to be politicians, unless the swarm has been weakened to the point to take desperate measures. Only THEN would they do such a thing. This was already seen in BW when Kerrigan came to Shakuras to tell Artanis and Zeratul about the 2nd Overmind.

It's not about a dream of harmonious paradise, unless Zagara's version is they will all be under Zerg rule, THAT is something everyone can see coming...

[Visions of Khas]

Also remember that the Zerg don't see their iwn actions as malevolent. At Korhal, Zagara even claimed to want to help humanity by either assimilating them or killing them. This, to her, was liberation from mental isolation. Karax touched on this perception lightly, claiming that being severed from the communal as being like flailing wildly in the depths of space. That's some existentialist shit right there.

So Zagara's idea if paradise might be a little more interesting than this outline suggests.

[Turalyon]

Also remember that the Zerg don't see their iwn actions as malevolent.

Oh, so that part of the blurb where it talks about Zerg peace is supposed to be taken to come from the Zerg "version of peace" and not at face value. Huh, should've been more clear then.

[ragnarok]

Also remember that the Zerg don't see their iwn actions as malevolent. At Korhal, Zagara even claimed to want to help humanity by either assimilating them or killing them. This, to her, was liberation from mental isolation. Karax touched on this perception lightly, claiming that being severed from the communal as being like flailing wildly in the depths of space. That's some existentialist shit right there.

So Zagara's idea if paradise might be a little more interesting than this outline suggests.

That's nothing different from Amon's view in LotV, since he's mentality was to kill them off to release them from the suffering.

[Nissa]

Given that the only SC novels I've read that didn't completely suck were Speed of Darkness and SCG Nova (it at least had a good plot), I have doubts as to how well anybody at all can pull off a good SC novel. Actually, the thing those two novels have in common is that they have minimal affect on SC lore. So basically, the best SC novels are those that are just side stories that are more about telling a story than re-explaining (and thus ruining) what SC/BW and the manual already said. This is a lore novel. Thus, it will suck.

Eh, I'll grant you, Khas, that maybe Zahn is a decent writer. However, all of the SC novels seem to have been written on a deadline and lack the kind of editing that would have rendered a product comparable to things published by a book company, rather than a gaming one. That, and lots of respectable sci fi authors have written franchise work. Heck, that's all Keith DeCandido seems to write.

....Huh, I'm kinda tempted to read some of the Zahn novels at my work and make estimates based his previous stuff.

[Visions of Khas]

Whatever you do, just don't read The Green and the Grey. Not... not his best work.

[Nissa]

Lol, now I am suddenly very curious.

[Visions of Khas]

Nooooo no no no no. o__o

[ragnarok]

Given that the only SC novels I've read that didn't completely suck were Speed of Darkness and SCG Nova (it at least had a good plot), I have doubts as to how well anybody at all can pull off a good SC novel. Actually, the thing those two novels have in common is that they have minimal affect on SC lore. So basically, the best SC novels are those that are just side stories that are more about telling a story than re-explaining (and thus ruining) what SC/BW and the manual already said. This is a lore novel. Thus, it will suck.

Eh, I'll grant you, Khas, that maybe Zahn is a decent writer. However, all of the SC novels seem to have been written on a deadline and lack the kind of editing that would have rendered a product comparable to things published by a book company, rather than a gaming one. That, and lots of respectable sci fi authors have written franchise work. Heck, that's all Keith DeCandido seems to write.

....Huh, I'm kinda tempted to read some of the Zahn novels at my work and make estimates based his previous stuff.

Did all the previous books have a specific deadline that needed to be met? Because I don't recall the authors saying anything about that....

[drakolobo]

I also remembered that is meaning compassion of zagara, so that the concept of paradise zerg is not necessarily favorable from the human perspective. I plan to bring zerg pradise turning everything into zerg jaaj:RE

[Nolanstar]

Hope its got a good, messed up/disturbing plot that has to do with the inhabitants and the intentions of Zagara. Remember she technically assimilated humans to produce the HotS Abberations.

[Eligor]

Blizzard don't really do grimdark anymore.

Overwatch is where their heart lies nowadays.

And that all in all might not be a bad thing.

I imagine that the "Evolution" novel could be good if they took a slightly harder sci-fi approach (closer to Lem or Sheckley)... Dealing with alien consciousness... The limits of our understanding and all that... And Zagara's paradise might indeed be a pretty creepy place, all things considered.

I am curious.

[ragnarok]

Hope its got a good, messed up/disturbing plot that has to do with the inhabitants and the intentions of Zagara. Remember she technically assimilated humans to produce the HotS Abberations.

And hopefully this is something that the terrans will point out upon speaking to her, but I doubt it.

[drakolobo]

Someone already got their hands on it?, I really want to know what it is about ... without buying that jja ja

[ragnarok]

Someone already got their hands on it?, I really want to know what it is about ... without buying that jja ja

I read it already. Don't exactly like the direction they're trying to take the swarm and everything. It DID offer a good view on Abathur however.

[sandwich_bird]

I read it already. Don't exactly like the direction they're trying to take the swarm and everything. It DID offer a good view on Abathur however.

Care to write a summary? I'm curious to know the overall story but not interested enough to read the entire book...:D

[ragnarok]

Care to write a summary? I'm curious to know the overall story but not interested enough to read the entire book...:D

If you're willing to take it with an open mind. On the battlenet forums, there's the constant "This is butchering the whole franchise" and all that for saying the Zerg can NEVER be anything but killing machines.

But look at it this way: in other sci-fi stories, haven't we seen alien species that started off barbaric but later changed into something more decent over time?

And the key here with the Zerg goes back to what Abathur was telling Kerrigan at the end of HotS: the swarm's purpose is determined by whoever is in charge.

[Turalyon]

But look at it this way: in other sci-fi stories, haven't we seen alien species that started off barbaric but later changed into something more decent over time?

Yeah, but we've already seen this in another Blizz IP though (Orcs).

It's ironic that the mocking/jokey/serious comment I made previously (which got wiped) about "the Zerg as you've never seen them before" being about them actually becoming "good" seems to be coming true.

[Zoar]

Well that was rather an interesting read. I don't know how I feel about it quite yet though.

[ragnarok]

Yeah, but we've already seen this in another Blizz IP though (Orcs).

It's ironic that the mocking/jokey/serious comment I made previously (which got wiped) about "the Zerg as you've never seen them before" being about them actually becoming "good" seems to be coming true.

Pffffft, if we follow the concept of "Once a monster, ALWAYS a monster" then humanity never would have evolved past the barbarian stage and everything.

Everyone is capable of change at some point, and not just going from bad to worse. Sure it may take a VERY long time, but still...

[TheEconomist]

The inherent character of mankind hasn't change. Only the circumstances, access to knowledge, opportunities, and, of course, technology. There's been glitches in states where welfare money was unable to be given to recipients for SEVERAL HOURS and 'barbaric' behavior was already rearing its head again.

[insert obligatory Rag jab]

[ragnarok]

For now yes, it was the same on the terran and Protoss end in the Evolution book. Still, given what Abathur said about whoever is in charge of the swarm determines its function....

[Turalyon]

Pffffft, if we follow the concept of "Once a monster, ALWAYS a monster" then humanity never would have evolved past the barbarian stage and everything.

Everyone is capable of change at some point, and not just going from bad to worse. Sure it may take a VERY long time, but still...

Change isn't the problem, it's the how and why of it. The Zerg becoming "good" because their current leader is somehow "good" because the leader in turn was trained by someone one who is supposedly "good" only makes sense if we know how and why each can be considered "good" when everything so far has shown us that each are "bad/evil". Without the how and why, such change is not earnt and can only be seen as being arbitrary.

Besides, rendering Zerg into a riff off Warcraft Orcs is just repetitious and lame.

[Drake Clawfang]

Finished reading. Was a bit slow for the first half but I guess that was kinda the point, the slow rising tension of if Zagara can be trusted or not and what she's up to. Second half was cool, the new zerg breed was interesting, the villain made sense. The overall plot with the Zerg is satisfactory, they're doing what was implied to be Kerrigan's work in the epilogue, seeding life on barren worlds. I do wonder if the intent was to retcon that it was Zagara's experiments doing that and not Kerrigan as a Xel'naga, but it's ambiguous either way. I liked the attention given to just how the heck the three species can communicate with each other, that has always bugged me ever since the Zerg eavesdropped on General Duke and his men way back in Episode II.

Only criticism is that aside from the friendship/romance between Tanya and Ulavu, none of the new characters stood out to me much. They were mostly there to deliver exposition and be in action scenes and otherwise made little impact. The commander for the Terrans, Claukfield or however his name is spelled, began to get interesting when he let go of his hate for the Protoss in the face of practicality and winning the battle, but up to that point he was a cut-out. Ulavu's backstory was a bit contrived with how Artanis doesn't trust the Dominion fully and he was looking for a specific type of Ghost but went rogue and now Artie has banished him, but it was neat to peal back the layers of what was going on with him. Didn't much care for how they kept emphasizing Tanya's capture could result in a second Kerrigan, it was a tease that I knew they wouldn't go through with and it wouldn't have made sense if they did, Kerrigan was a much stronger psionic and we know her infestation has been very difficult to recreate despite purposeful attempts.

I also thought Artanis was a bit too much of an asshole, at times he seemed to be angry and hostile because the story wanted Valerian to be the sole voice of reason. Heck a lot of the time Valerian was coming off as more level-headed and intelligent than him, and even more insightful on the Protoss than him, the friggin' Hierarch. It got to be a bit much.

Overall though pretty good. Story was good, characters were meh, but the latter did not ruin the former.

[ragnarok]

Finished reading. Was a bit slow for the first half but I guess that was kinda the point, the slow rising tension of if Zagara can be trusted or not and what she's up to. Second half was cool, the new zerg breed was interesting, the villain made sense. The overall plot with the Zerg is satisfactory, they're doing what was implied to be Kerrigan's work in the epilogue, seeding life on barren worlds. I do wonder if the intent was to retcon that it was Zagara's experiments doing that and not Kerrigan as a Xel'naga, but it's ambiguous either way. I liked the attention given to just how the heck the three species can communicate with each other, that has always bugged me ever since the Zerg eavesdropped on General Duke and his men way back in Episode II.

Only criticism is that aside from the friendship/romance between Tanya and Ulavu, none of the new characters stood out to me much. They were mostly there to deliver exposition and be in action scenes and otherwise made little impact. The commander for the Terrans, Claukfield or however his name is spelled, began to get interesting when he let go of his hate for the Protoss in the face of practicality and winning the battle, but up to that point he was a cut-out. Ulavu's backstory was a bit contrived with how Artanis doesn't trust the Dominion fully and he was looking for a specific type of Ghost but went rogue and now Artie has banished him, but it was neat to peal back the layers of what was going on with him. Didn't much care for how they kept emphasizing Tanya's capture could result in a second Kerrigan, it was a tease that I knew they wouldn't go through with and it wouldn't have made sense if they did, Kerrigan was a much stronger psionic and we know her infestation has been very difficult to recreate despite purposeful attempts.

I also thought Artanis was a bit too much of an asshole, at times he seemed to be angry and hostile because the story wanted Valerian to be the sole voice of reason. Heck a lot of the time Valerian was coming off as more level-headed and intelligent than him, and even more insightful on the Protoss than him, the friggin' Hierarch. It got to be a bit much.

Overall though pretty good. Story was good, characters were meh, but the latter did not ruin the former.

It wouldn't be a retcon for Zagara's work instead of Kerrigan's. Remember, the epilogue said life was growing on MULTIPLE worlds, not just one. Regardless, it's not like they said who was growing it.

Artanis's anger was understandable given the swarm's actions towards his people, and for his to be distrustful make sense. Don't forget, even by the time of Evolution, Artanis didn't fully trust Valerian (likely this is due to Raynor having told him in the past about Arcturus's actions and all that). For all of what Zamara said in the DT Saga: Twilight, anger tends to cloud emotions, and this holds true for the Protoss too. Besides Artanis still felt cheated a victory over Amon because he felt his people should have gotten the ascension instead.

For the whole part of their emphasis on if Tanya got captured could result in another Kerrigan, you have to remember that in the 4 years between BW and WoL, she experimented on the virus in order to remedy its effects. In SC1/BW, the virus was largely incompatible with terran DNA, Kerrigan tried to change this and it worked fine for Ethan Stewart.

[TheEconomist]

Alright, I've finally got some time and a faint spark of interest (which with a lot of patience, work, and optimism, I can kindle into a somewhat self-sustaining flare of something approaching a fuck to give.) So, based on this thread, I may give it a shot.

[ragnarok]

Considering that you still don't seem to be convinced the Zerg could ever change into something else, I'm unsure if you'll find the read worth it.

[Visions of Khas]

Oh god, this book...

Spoilers:

Is anybody else bothered by the fact that Uvula needs to gain access to telekinetic Ghosts, implying Protoss -- the most psionically powerful species in the galaxy -- can't move shit with their minds?

Nobody?

Okay, then.

[Gradius]

Oh god, this book...

Spoilers:

Is anybody else bothered by the fact that Uvula needs to gain access to telekinetic Ghosts, implying Protoss -- the most psionically powerful species in the galaxy -- can't move shit with their minds?

Nobody?

Okay, then.
Wow, that sucks...

[TcheQuevara]

Ah, sure, a lot of "lore holes". All of them can be fixed by saying "we don't have the whole picture" or "it was just the character's perspective".

Seems Zahn isn't super familiar with SC lore. He knew most of what he needed to know, though.

The plot holes are also there.


If Ulavu never lied, how did he spend so many years without anyone asking him "what's your exact chaste"?

The mission took several hours. Why didn't both Protoss and Terran ask for reinforcements, as they were obviously running low on people? The Hyperion only took three hours to get ready.

etc




But overall, I'm very happy with where they're taking the lore. I just hope they keep up to the potential of it.

[Zoar]

well Uvula did say that protoss telekinesis is different, at least i remember him saying something like that

[Visions of Khas]

To keep myself from having an aneurysm, I head canon'd the situation as, "The Protoss want to see if Ghosts can use this in the field as a good will gesture from the Protoss," and Uvula likes playing fetch with Terrans.

[ragnarok]

Oh god, this book...

Spoilers:

Is anybody else bothered by the fact that Uvula needs to gain access to telekinetic Ghosts, implying Protoss -- the most psionically powerful species in the galaxy -- can't move shit with their minds?

Nobody?

Okay, then.

I really didn't understand that. I had originally thought virtually all the Protoss had that ability. Granted I don't think we really got to see it, but that retcon was plain BS

[ragnarok]

Ah, sure, a lot of "lore holes". All of them can be fixed by saying "we don't have the whole picture" or "it was just the character's perspective".

Seems Zahn isn't super familiar with SC lore. He knew most of what he needed to know, though.

The plot holes are also there.


If Ulavu never lied, how did he spend so many years without anyone asking him "what's your exact chaste"?

The mission took several hours. Why didn't both Protoss and Terran ask for reinforcements, as they were obviously running low on people? The Hyperion only took three hours to get ready.

etc





The Q here is would people have BOTHERED asking him about the caste, though you can argue this is just plain lazy.

Now, as for asking for reinforcements, this is the part Zahn got right in that both the Daelaam and the Dominion military are still in a terrible state, despite 6 years have passed since Amon's defeat in LotV. It's a hell of a lot better than what we got in WoL, in the Dominion rebuilt so quickly after what was done in BW.


well Uvula did say that protoss telekinesis is different, at least i remember him saying something like that

How? All you need to do is move an object, it seems simple enough.

[Zoar]

What he wished was for me to find and identify a Dominion ghost of a specific psionic power. Tanya clenched her teeth. So she hadn’t been a friend to him, or even an unknowing information source. All she’d been was some sort of high-stakes door prize. Let me guess. Something that had rarely been seen before, maybe? Like pyrokinesis? Ulavu inclined his head to the side. No. For a second Tanya thought she’d misunderstood. No? No, he said reluctantly. I was sent to locate and befriend a telekinetic. Tanya felt as if the floor had just been pulled out from under her. She hadn’t even been a door prize? What are you talking about? There are two teeks in the program right now. What was wrong with them? He was silent so long that she started to wonder if she’d lost contact. I did not wish them as friends, he said at last. They are not… good souls. And now he was going to presume to judge all of humanity? This just got better and better. They are perfectly acceptable souls, she shot back. Are they? She scowled. No, damn it all, they really weren’t. Glistrup was manic depressive and a compulsive liar, while Mai was just an all-around mean person. No one liked them. Still, they were competent enough teeks, if somewhat low-power. So what did you want with them? The protoss have developed a new weapon, Ulavu said evasively. Of only minor tactical use, but of interest to a number of us. It was hoped a terran telekinetic would be useful in its deployment, as the human version of that ability carries unique characteristics not found in protoss. We wished to explore what could be achieved through a partnership with such a terran.
Chapter 14
Zahn, Timothy. StarCraft: Evolution (pp. 192-193). Random House Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.

there went and found the quote, would have liked him to elaborate a little more about the difference but there it is

[Gradius]

^---much better. Thank u.

[Visions of Khas]

^----- Still doesn't obviate that Uvula doesn't have telekinesis. Or what makes Terran TK so special.

[Gradius]

^-----sc lore is a joke these days so I take what I can get :(

[Zoar]

Like I said, it would have been nice for him to elaborate a bit more on the differences.

[ragnarok]

Like I said, it would have been nice for him to elaborate a bit more on the differences.

They probably felt it wasn't necessary for the book. While true, I still hope this is explained in a future SC book, whenever that'll be.

[Turalyon]

The difference is probably that Protoss can only levitate themselves but not other things.

[Zoar]

Well that would be a logical assumption given the limited information.

[ragnarok]

The difference is probably that Protoss can only levitate themselves but not other things.

That's plain BS. All that psionic power and they can't even lift a pebble with their minds.

[sandwich_bird]

The difference is probably that Protoss can only levitate themselves but not other things.

If High Templars can create psionic storms then I don't see why they can't levitate other things. It's basically the same thing but to different levels. Maybe the physical manifestation of protoss psychic abilities are formed from vectors of conic shapes with piercing characteristics while the Terran could be cubic vectors with pushing characteristics. So when Protoss use their powers it results like this:

>>>>>> 'object'

while for the Terran it would be like this

||||||||| 'object'

Then you can start imagining how it would be harder(but not impossible) for a protoss to easily levitate something other than their own body while it would be easier for Terrans. A protoss would basically have to send multiple conic vectors at specific positions to levitate the object while a Terran would simply need to enlarge the area of his psionic vector. So, even if Protoss are able to send out a bigger and more controlled psionic output, Terrans would have a fundamental advantage anyways when it comes to levitating other objects.

I'm not sure what would be the biological differences that make the psionic manifestations different though but I don't think this needs an explanation.

Anyways, I don't know, I'm making stuff up and I'm pretty sure it was just a mistake from the author.

[Visions of Khas]

Anyways, I don't know, I'm making stuff up and I'm pretty sure it was just a mistake from the author.

Well, Blizzard seems pretty intent on castrating the Protoss in every way, shape and form. They've assumed this Tolkien-style mindset with regard to the Protoss as the "Elves" in the StarCraft universe; their time has past and they're on the way out. Somehow, the manipulation of the Protoss by Amon was somehow more "severe" than used on the Zerg. The Zerg are redeemed, while the Protoss are intentionally left to whither.

Yet I believe there's potential for the Protoss renaissance: some among the Tal'darim retain their nerve cords. If taught the art of the Khala, the defected Tal'darim could overcome the "marred essence" of their race and attain true Perfection of Form. (My head-canon called them Dawn Templar or Dusk Templar. :3 ) Moreover, it's stated time and again that the Khaydarin possess power that could elevate the Protoss to new heights, but for SOME REASON the Protoss REFUSE to make use of it. Ugh.

[Nissa]

The trouble with the khaydarins is that it's never explicitly defined what exactly they do. The "Dark Templar" trilogy kinda gave an idea, but since they've already explicitly ignored the books on the Tal'darim, khaydarins can be anything, really.

[ragnarok]

Well, Blizzard seems pretty intent on castrating the Protoss in every way, shape and form. They've assumed this Tolkien-style mindset with regard to the Protoss as the "Elves" in the StarCraft universe; their time has past and they're on the way out. Somehow, the manipulation of the Protoss by Amon was somehow more "severe" than used on the Zerg. The Zerg are redeemed, while the Protoss are intentionally left to whither.

Yet I believe there's potential for the Protoss renaissance: some among the Tal'darim retain their nerve cords. If taught the art of the Khala, the defected Tal'darim could overcome the "marred essence" of their race and attain true Perfection of Form. (My head-canon called them Dawn Templar or Dusk Templar. :3 ) Moreover, it's stated time and again that the Khaydarin possess power that could elevate the Protoss to new heights, but for SOME REASON the Protoss REFUSE to make use of it. Ugh.

If that's true it proves the influence of the Conclave hasn't faded completely. This was a flaw Tassadar had pointed out since SC1, that no matter what, they continue to cling to their failing traditions, which does nothing but bring disaster to their people.

Overall, the whole reliance on Khaydarin crystals is merely as power batteries. Ok sure the DT Saga did give it another purpose via memory crystals, but it's not much. It's a shame Zeratul didn't tap into the Overmind's memories more, since it specifically said back in SC1 those crystals had powers untold of by the Protoss.

[Nolanstar]

Zahn does nice* stories, but never does enough research on the technical lore of the series. Ever.

[ragnarok]

Zahn does nice* stories, but never does enough research on the technical lore of the series. Ever.

Interesting. I would have expected differently from his SW books as he's wrote more of those. With Christie Golden, her SW books for not doing enough research I can understand.

[Turalyon]

If High Templars can create psionic storms then I don't see why they can't levitate other things. It's basically the same thing but to different levels.

What can I say? Magic A is actually not Magic A. ;)


Then you can start imagining how it would be harder(but not impossible) for a protoss to easily levitate something other than their own body while it would be easier for Terrans.

I don't see how this would make it easier to levitate themselves since sharp vectors would not really permit them to gracefully glide about as High Templar observedly do... unless they used multiple vectors to levitate themselves as you said. The problem here is that if they already use multiple conical vectors to levitate themselves, why aren't they seen to to move other things using these multiple conical vectors? The answer really just dovetails back to it being "probably that Protoss can only levitate themselves and not other things" (for some reason or other).



Well, Blizzard seems pretty intent on castrating the Protoss in every way, shape and form.

Eh, that's old news. They've been doing that since BW. :p

Then again, I'm still unsure as to which one of the Zerg and Protoss races got the worst lore shellacking in Sc2.

[sandwich_bird]

I don't see how this would make it easier to levitate themselves since sharp vectors would not really permit them to gracefully glide about as High Templar observedly do... unless they used multiple vectors to levitate themselves as you said. The problem here is that if they already use multiple conical vectors to levitate themselves, why aren't they seen to to move other things using these multiple conical vectors? The answer really just dovetails back to it being "probably that Protoss can only levitate themselves and not other things" (for some reason or other).


Couple of things:

If the Protoss vectors are conic, that means that the force coming from the point is evenly distributed to the base. If you launch only one vector from the middle of the body, it would be hard to stabilize like below (upside-down representation) unless increasing the power increases the area of the base. Of course, you can't really move like that but...

_______
^
0

With only 4 evenly spaced vectors at a 45 degree angle from the ground, it should be quite stable (think of a cross from a top down perspective) and it should allow gracious movement if you master the "art" of balancing the forces propelling you through the power output of each of the 4 vectors (maybe add a few more vectors if you're that good).

Now, when you try to levitate something other than yourself, it is not the conic base that holds the object but the point. Increasing the intensity of a conic vector doesn't help and can even cause issues because of spatial restrictions. In other words, if you increase the area of the base, you can't stack as many cones unless the cones can overlap without interfering with each others(which we'll assume they can't). So to properly levitate something, you have to control many small conic vectors which we'll assume is a very hard thing to do compared to just increasing the power output of a vector (which the Terran can do because of their cubic vectors).

Hope that makes more sense. Kinda hard to explain without images XD

EDIT: Thinking back on this, changing the area of the base needs to have something other than a direct linear relation with the power output.. We can just say that psionic users have 3 abilities:

-controlling the base area size
-controlling the power output amount
-controlling the number of vectors

And even though a psionic user has both control of the base area and power output, increasing the power output still has an exponential effect on the base area size(so increasing the power a bit doesn't really change the base area size but, at a certain point, you start to really affect the area size).

[ragnarok]

Eh, that's old news. They've been doing that since BW. :p

Then again, I'm still unsure as to which one of the Zerg and Protoss races got the worst lore shellacking in Sc2.

The Protoss only got the realization of Amon uplifting them, and therefore they couldn't ascend. The Zerg had it slightly worse as Amon used them for longer periods and everything.

[drakolobo]

Obviously the protoss have telekinesis alrarak gives examples of things in his first apraricion cutscene

https://youtu.be/HElDA_hNuHQ?t=16

, the psychic difference must be of a more subtle nature, and his interest of more scientific than practical

- - - Updated - - -




Yet I believe there's potential for the Protoss renaissance: some among the Tal'darim retain their nerve cords. If taught the art of the Khala, the defected Tal'darim could overcome the "marred essence" of their race and attain true Perfection of Form. (My head-canon called them Dawn Templar or Dusk Templar. :3 ) Moreover, it's stated time and again that the Khaydarin possess power that could elevate the Protoss to new heights, but for SOME REASON the Protoss REFUSE to make use of it. Ugh.

pretty cool

[TcheQuevara]

The difference is probably that Protoss can only levitate themselves but not other things.

Why is everyone losing their minds over this godammit. Their telekinesis is just different. Like bats and dolphins sonars, or different species of bats or cetaceans, work differently from each other. Not in a way that we that don't use sonars know, but somehow that sonar users know the difference. That's it. Like Indians and Italians can make pasta but it's different. Or how swordsmanship in different in each culture, and so on.


If High Templars can create psionic storms then I don't see why they can't levitate other things. It's basically the same thing but to different levels. Maybe the physical manifestation of protoss psychic abilities are formed from vectors of conic shapes with piercing characteristics while the Terran could be cubic vectors with pushing characteristics. So when Protoss use their powers it results like this:

...


I love your explanation, sandwich. Just a note, a psionic storm is made triggering the psionic energy that already exists in a place. It's not like all it's cinetic energy is coming form the HT's mind.

About the difference between lifting yourself and lifting other objects, psionics commonly (in fiction and esoterism) related to the body. It is a classic "yogi power" to levitate while meditating, this is where pop culture takes the "powerful psionists float around" thing. Think about how it would be different for a psionic to enter someone else's dream or entering her own dream. Or, making an analogy to another kind of power, how the Flash can draw Speed Force to accelerate himself but not other people. I see no reason to think that a psionists own body would be treated as any other object, since the psionic mojo is flowing from his own body.

[Turalyon]

Couple of things:

If the Protoss vectors are conic, that means that the force coming from the point is evenly distributed to the base. If you launch only one vector from the middle of the body, it would be hard to stabilize like below (upside-down representation) unless increasing the power increases the area of the base. Of course, you can't really move like that but...

_______
^
0

With only 4 evenly spaced vectors at a 45 degree angle from the ground, it should be quite stable (think of a cross from a top down perspective) and it should allow gracious movement if you master the "art" of balancing the forces propelling you through the power output of each of the 4 vectors (maybe add a few more vectors if you're that good).

Now, when you try to levitate something other than yourself, it is not the conic base that holds the object but the point. Increasing the intensity of a conic vector doesn't help and can even cause issues because of spatial restrictions. In other words, if you increase the area of the base, you can't stack as many cones unless the cones can overlap without interfering with each others(which we'll assume they can't). So to properly levitate something, you have to control many small conic vectors which we'll assume is a very hard thing to do compared to just increasing the power output of a vector (which the Terran can do because of their cubic vectors).

Hope that makes more sense. Kinda hard to explain without images XD

EDIT: Thinking back on this, changing the area of the base needs to have something other than a direct linear relation with the power output.. We can just say that psionic users have 3 abilities:

-controlling the base area size
-controlling the power output amount
-controlling the number of vectors

And even though a psionic user has both control of the base area and power output, increasing the power output still has an exponential effect on the base area size(so increasing the power a bit doesn't really change the base area size but, at a certain point, you start to really affect the area size).

Ah, I see. I got confused since I didn't consider Newtoninan physics and that the source of those vectors as being different to any another object. Silly me. :D

This explains why Protoss can't levitate objects other than themselves but I'm sure it doesn't mean they can't perform telekinesis of a general nature. Unless the conic vectors "penetrate" other objects (psionic bullets!), I'd assume that some of the force of this conic vector can still be transferred to an object in order to move it in some capacity, if not in an elegant/smooth way. I take it that Protoss can't perform telekinesis on objects other than themselves according to this new book??


Why is everyone losing their minds over this godammit. Their telekinesis is just different.

I'm not losing my mind. I acknowledge that there's a difference.

[TcheQuevara]

I know you're not, I was trying to sound histrionic like the cool kids do :)

No, the new books do not state Protoss can't move things with their minds. SC:E does say protoss and terran telekinetics work differently, but does not specify how.

[ragnarok]

Obviously the protoss have telekinesis alrarak gives examples of things in his first apraricion cutscene

https://youtu.be/HElDA_hNuHQ?t=16

, the psychic difference must be of a more subtle nature, and his interest of more scientific than practical

- - - Updated - - -



pretty cool

Figured that, shows that the Nerazim didn't consider the Tal'darim faction as part of them. After all, Vorazun DID say this specifically in LotV that while the Tal'darim share their blood, they're not like the Daelaam at all, and this may never change.



I know you're not, I was trying to sound histrionic like the cool kids do :)

No, the new books do not state Protoss can't move things with their minds. SC:E does say protoss and terran telekinetics work differently, but does not specify how.

That merely means it's just another vague thing that Blizzard will abuse in the future.

[Visions of Khas]

while the Tal'darim share their blood, they're not like the Daelaam at all, and this may never change.

Well, some of the Tal'darim defected to the Daelaam after the End War, so this isn't entirely true.

[ragnarok]

Well, some of the Tal'darim defected to the Daelaam after the End War, so this isn't entirely true.

Yes, but when Vorazun said that they were still at Slayn, so at that moment it wasn't the case.

I'm still curious for your part just how much is true or not. If nothing else, the vast majority would have still gone with Alarak after Amon's defeat in LotV

[GnaReffotsirk]

Alarak was using void energy there. Like those damn crystals that pushes units away. Maybe Tal'darim are able to use their psychic abilities to create forcefields that blasts objects away when released.

From that video, it doesn't seem Alarak was gripping anyone like Kerrigan does, he creates a ball of energy and unleashes it instead to push the Zealot and Vorazun away.

[ragnarok]

Alarak was using void energy there. Like those damn crystals that pushes units away. Maybe Tal'darim are able to use their psychic abilities to create forcefields that blasts objects away when released.

From that video, it doesn't seem Alarak was gripping anyone like Kerrigan does, he creates a ball of energy and unleashes it instead to push the Zealot and Vorazun away.

Possibly, or if we were to try to use Blizzard's explanation, they'd probably say the Tal'darim found a way to replicate the black hole mothership ability, though on a much smaller scale (hence the sucking you towards it and repelling you back out)

[GnaReffotsirk]

Warp blades used to suck matter into its field, cutting things by consuming rather than splitting objects.

I think..

[TheEconomist]

Maphaps that concept was destroyed in the Great Retcon of 2010.

[Visions of Khas]

I'm also a little surprised everyone's glossing over the fact that the Zerg are baking things now. Can you imagine Abathur slaving over a hot oven all day? When did they assimilate Martha Stewart?

[ragnarok]

Warp blades used to suck matter into its field, cutting things by consuming rather than splitting objects.

I think..

Interesting, didn't know that. I'll look into it.

[drakolobo]

Possibly, or if we were to try to use Blizzard's explanation, they'd probably say the Tal'darim found a way to replicate the black hole mothership ability, though on a much smaller scale (hence the sucking you towards it and repelling you back out)

It is actually a simpler explanation simply alarak is using the ability to suck energy on the Zealot as he does with the enemies he defeats, and the ascendant with his allies in game mode. And that does not remove that is using telekinesis held the zealot and then he pushed

[ragnarok]

It is actually a simpler explanation simply alarak is using the ability to suck energy on the Zealot as he does with the enemies he defeats, and the ascendant with his allies in game mode. And that does not remove that is using telekinesis held the zealot and then he pushed

Oh right, didn't think about that one.