Nissa finally caves in.

[Nissa]

So I saw your Legacy of the Void. Personal things have kept me occupied and unable to watch a playthrough of this game, both from time and stress. That, and a complete sense of dread from the little I did see, and all the stuff I heard.

...All I behold is an abomination.

I can't make it through this game. The dialogue is atrocious. It's all melodramatic tripe that states directly instead of showing. People claim this is the best of the three SC2 games, but honestly, to me it's a twin of HotS, only with added Dehaka-like monologues and even more DBZ cutscenes. Rohana is the new Dehaka, and Fenix is the new Stukov. Karax is the cheap analogue of Abathur. Emotional drama stands instead of interesting plot.

Honestly, I made it through multiple viewings of WoL and HotS, but I can't make myself finish this. I made it about to the point where the robots decide they want in. After that, I just couldn't go any farther.

I know, I know, this is late. But since we all hang out here for a franchise that has seen better days, and not to mention have been around since SC1 or came here after the long pause. If we aren't here to discuss inane matters of a game franchise, what's the forum for? Here's some stuff I wanted to rant about.

- I've said it before, and I'll say it again. The armor for the Protoss is bulky, impractical, and ugly. Selendis' helmet pisses me off because the second that thing gets hit and jerks around, those spiky things around her eyes are going to stab her in the face.

- Hate all Protoss voices. As much as people like John de Lancie, his voice was only okay, in my opinion. I have no complaints on his performance, but the sound editing they did on his voice only rendered up an okay alien tone -- I'm complaining about the sound design, not de Lancie himself. In SC1, each Protoss voice felt distinct and well characterized to the person talking. Here, all the voices blend together. Fenix's actor reminded me of Aldaris at times.

- Uh....why do all the Protoss have lens flare eyes?

- This is how the story is going to begin? No catching up with the Protoss and seeing their status? No proper introduction where we actually see them planning and weighing the pros and cons of retaking Aiur? Heck, no status update on who exactly holds Aiur until Amon showed up?

- Oh wait, so the plot's just going to reveal right away that the Khala is bad? No explanation of the mechanics of this? It really undercuts the tension of this event when it's just suddenly introduced as a plot point, with no build-up at all. We don't even get to see any modern Judicator dealing with the situation. The only person who struggles with this choice, Rohana, is an ancient woman who's been in stasis for years. Thus, we don't get to see the effects of this loss on modern Protoss society. We're just simply told that the Khala is important to some people, but that they can't have it.

Since we never knew the difference between the Khala and ordinary telepathy in the first place, we can't understand the loss of the Khala. Especially since it doesn't appear to make any sort of gameplay difference. A better choice would have been to allow the player to decide when/if any nerve cords are severed, and this changes the nature of the plot. Or, y'know, just not half of Protoss culture out the window.

- The Protoss sound like DS9 Klingons. "Allow us to join you in battle!", "May the Khala guide our blades!" What the frick is the Khala that it can guide anything?

- Karax just introduced himself, and Zeratul immediately calls him a friend?

- The Protoss don't seem freaked out enough that they're fighting their own kind. I mean, you go into battle with a comrade, and they're suddenly spouting hateful things and trying to kill you? That's not something to be taken in stride.

- "Artanis, you must hold on. We are coming for you." how does Zeratul know that what happened to Artie won't happen to him? They figure out pretty quick that the Khala is to blame. How undramatic.

- Why does Raynor say "Like old times" in the Korhal missions? Raynor is never fighting with Artanis. Don't give me that "Artanis is the executor" bullcrap. Besides that being a retcon, I'm pretty sure there's some conflicting opinions on that, anyway. No matter the case, it's silly to point out "old times" when the players have never seen such times.

- Interfering in Terran matters seems weird. What right do they have? How many humans are okay with this? The plot totally annihilates any delicious Toss-Terran tension from SC1. While Valerian might be able to accept their help, the people that follow him didn't go with him on his adventures with Raynor's Raiders; they didn't have the chance to get an alternate opinion on the 'Toss. I'll forgive this if later games have people critize accepting help from a hostile race, but realistically there's got to be important people who don't trust the Protoss.

- The Moebius Corp seems from nowhere. They were a scientific group in WoL, and now they have a military? According to Valerian's wiki page, "....as even Raynor noted that when the zerg assaulted Augustgrad, the damage was miniscule compared to Moebius's attack." Uh...uh...why? To make Kerrigan's actions in HotS look better by comparison?

- The music is often overwhelming in volume and distracting. Sweeping musical scores aren't going to make me feel anything when the plot is stupid.

- This game is weird. The first two games were centered around smaller groups of independent people with the potential to choose a wide variety of options. This one is based on the leader of a large group of folk who must make decisions based on the greater good. That's a huge shift. Just an observation.

- Really, I was not interested in seeing Rohana's butt.

- "Your words are little more than poison" - Eowyn, the Two Towers. I mean, Artanis, Legacy of the Void.

- Why does Amon keep talking about salvation without saying what this supposed salvation is supposed to be? Heck, why does Artanis speak of salvation without saying what this version of salvation is supposed to be?

- These mofos shake their shoulders a lot when they talk. Karax sure likes flapping his arms. "I just flew in from Aiur, and boy are my arms tired!"

- So, Artanis says, "We are not very different" to Swann? The Protoss are different. Pretty darned different, at that. Besides, similarity =/= peace. That, and the line delivery was melodramatic like an after-school special.

- Okay, so Shakuras was under attack when the rest of the Protoss were trying to take back Aiur, huh? Sounds dramatic. Maybe I'd like to have seen that. Huh, maybe it would have been a good idea to let the player choose between staying at Shakuras and trying to retake Aiur.

- Does no one else think that the destruction of Shakuras was excessive and quick? They give up on the planet so easily, when it's the home of the Dark Templar, the refuge for the Khalai, and the bearer of a temple much like the one that was destroyed on Aiur. That's not going to be an easy loss to bear, especially not now that they've lost so much already.

And did I miss it, or did they say where the bulk of Protoss civilians are staying at this point? If the Khalai had to flee to Shakuras because it's their last option, they clearly had no other planet to flee to. Are the Protoss just living in spaceships for the time being?

- Um, why are they using Rohana to bring back Protoss culture strife when keeping Judicator around is a far more interesting, and up-to-date, a conflict?

- Why does Rohanna get on Artanis' case about dealing with DTs and then immediately apologize for it? Why bother bringing it up if she isn't going to defend her position?

- "It is not my place to question the order of a Judicator" - "Fenix"

COMPLETE BULLCRAP. Fenix would never say something like this. Fenix was always a loyal Templar -- that is, loyal to the Templar. In the same way a soldier is more loyal to the military than to the government. Fenix's trust in Tassadar was so absolute that he turned to Tassadar immediately upon Tassadar's rebellious arrival on Aiur. Fenix, while to a degree respectful of the chain of command, immediately took action when he sensed that the Conclave was wrong. He's not a blind follower.

- Fenix is the Stukov of this game: a beloved character coming back only to shame his memory and force the plot to go along.

- If the hybrids created other races, why are the Protoss the Firstborn? Blizz needs to be careful about their retcons.

- The problem with this story is the blending of lines, the eradification of distinction. The Khala is gone, the human-Protoss conflict is nonexistent, DT/Khalai political strife is dropped down to a few ineffective statements, Protoss-Zerg conflict is ignored, Protoss weakness is offset by random technology from stupid places, and Kerrigan's past has almost zero impact on the plot. All the stuff that created a beautiful, complex story is now whitewashed or gone. To make it worse, they replace it with some boring robot crap. I don't care about the purifiers, and I never will.

That's enough ranting. I had to get that off my chest. Maybe someday I can finish watching a playthrough of this, but for now, SC2 just needs to commit honorable seppuku.

[Drake Clawfang]

You lost me at "Rohana is the new Dehaka and Karax is the new Abathur."

[Nissa]

Well, honestly, they are. Rohana says pointless things that don't matter, and Karax is a constructor, and one of the lone males in a story full of chicks. It's essentially the same as HotS.

[Gradius]

Honestly, I made it through multiple viewings of WoL and HotS, but I can't make myself finish this. I made it about to the point where the robots decide they want in. After that, I just couldn't go any farther.
LoTV is the best installment in the trilogy. I can't fathom how you can get through the monkey hurlage that was WoL or HoTS, yet aren't able to watch a story that had 10x the thought put into it.



I can't make it through this game. The dialogue is atrocious. It's all melodramatic tripe that states directly instead of showing. People claim this is the best of the three SC2 games, but honestly, to me it's a twin of HotS, only with added Dehaka-like monologues and even more DBZ cutscenes. Rohana is the new Dehaka, and Fenix is the new Stukov. Karax is the cheap analogue of Abathur. Emotional drama stands instead of interesting plot.
DBZ cutscenes actually belong in the protoss campaign; they're the psionic master race. What did you think Tassadar channeling a giant spirit bomb to kill the Overmind in the first game was? Karax and Abathur are different characters, and Karax is way better than Stetmann.


- Uh....why do all the Protoss have lens flare eyes?
They've had glowing eyes since SC1. Lens flare looks cooler.


- This is how the story is going to begin? No catching up with the Protoss and seeing their status? No proper introduction where we actually see them planning and weighing the pros and cons of retaking Aiur? Heck, no status update on who exactly holds Aiur until Amon showed up?
All saved for short stories and not relevant to the overarching plot.


- Oh wait, so the plot's just going to reveal right away that the Khala is bad? No explanation of the mechanics of this? It really undercuts the tension of this event when it's just suddenly introduced as a plot point, with no build-up at all. We don't even get to see any modern Judicator dealing with the situation. The only person who struggles with this choice, Rohana, is an ancient woman who's been in stasis for years. Thus, we don't get to see the effects of this loss on modern Protoss society. We're just simply told that the Khala is important to some people, but that they can't have it.

1) Amon helped create the Khala, and so he corrupted it. That was hard.
2) Why do you keep bringing up Judicator? They were pretty much destroyed in SC1 and their government was overthrown. They're gone. Obsolete. They don't belong in this game.


Since we never knew the difference between the Khala and ordinary telepathy in the first place, we can't understand the loss of the Khala.
Non-sequitur.


Especially since it doesn't appear to make any sort of gameplay difference. A better choice would have been to allow the player to decide when/if any nerve cords are severed, and this changes the nature of the plot. Or, y'know, just not half of Protoss culture out the window.
The narration of the intro cinematic makes the importance of the Khala pretty clear, and I'm actually glad they didn't belabor the point any further.


- The Protoss sound like DS9 Klingons. "Allow us to join you in battle!", "May the Khala guide our blades!" What the frick is the Khala that it can guide anything?
It's a philosophical system.


- Karax just introduced himself, and Zeratul immediately calls him a friend?
I don't get it. Did you even play the game? Looks like all your gripes are a failure to understand or recall basic plot points.

[Nissa]

LoTV is the best installment in the trilogy. I can't fathom how you can get through the monkey hurlage that was WoL or HoTS, yet aren't able to watch a story that had 10x the thought put into it.

I don't know why you call this "best." But I also don't know why I find it less tolerable. Perhaps it has something to do with it eliminating the Khala and the drama that entails. Wait, it may have more to do with the dialogue. It's all boring, stilted language, where all but one character (Alarak) speak in movie trailer/after school special quotes. In the previous games, they at least had more rednecks, Abathur's stuff, and Mira han. That is, people who don't talk like artificial life forms written by high schoolers.



DBZ cutscenes actually belong in the protoss campaign; they're the psionic master race. What did you think Tassadar channeling a giant spirit bomb to kill the Overmind in the first game was? Karax and Abathur are different characters, and Karax is way better than Stetmann.

I meant DBZ in art style. They're so dramatic and over the top, and yet I feel nothing. I suppose whether or not it fits is arguable, but I'd be okay with it if any of the cutscenes provoked an emotion in me besides embarrasment at the poor dialogue.

Ah, Karax serves the same plot function as Abathur -- he's a constructor guy that provides upgrades. He's not the same as Abathur, mainly because he's boring. Uh....hm, yeah, I guess Karax is better than Stetmann. He's at least more than a cliche.



They've had glowing eyes since SC1. Lens flare looks cooler.

HAHAHAHA! ...No. The lens flares look like cheap pointer lasers sticking out of their eyes. They don't even have eyeballs. Glowy eyes are purty.



All saved for short stories and not relevant to the overarching plot.

Absolutely not. Additional reading should not be required to enjoy a game's story. I'm not asking for a forty minute recap, I'm just asking for a cutscene that at least touches on the Protoss' issues from BW to now, as well as introducing our characters. We learned nothing about general Protoss society in Wol or HotS. We saw Zeratul run around, Selendis said hi, and some Protoss scientists were killed. We don't know anything about the political/survival situation of the race.

Think about the introduction we get, say, at the beginning of all SC1 mission sets. Terran's first missions of course open with a tutorial and intro to Raynor. The first Zerg mission is the Overmind's classic monologue. The first Protoss mission has Aldaris immediately clarify the Protoss perspective on past events. The second Protoss missions start with a conversation between Zeratul and Aldaris that sends them off to Shakuras. DuGalle briefs you at the beginning of the second Terran missions. And finally, the last Zerg missions begin with Kerrigan explaining why she's separated her cerebrate from the swarm. Heck, WoL and HotS even spent a few minutes building up the imminent action.

In short, I'm not asking for much, just a couple minutes spent re-introducing us to a race we haven't heard from in eighteen years.



1) Amon helped create the Khala, and so he corrupted it. That was hard.
2) Why do you keep bringing up Judicator? They were pretty much destroyed in SC1 and their government was overthrown. They're gone. Obsolete. They don't belong in this game.

Incorrect. The Judicator haven't ceased to exist. They're still a caste.

1) Just because their society on Aiur is gone doesn't mean they still won't attempt to hold on to some traditions.
2) the Khalai caste still exists and so do the Templar, primarily as functions of Protoss society. Judicator probably also have some sort of psionic power unique to their caste.
3) Judicator =/= the Conclave. Castes are family based, so Judicator are born. They are not automatically equipped to serve in the Conclave, and there are probably a number of non-Conclave roles available for them.
4) Khala is the light side of the Protoss, and DT stuff the dark. BW made that clear, add a retcon to the list.
5) No Khala? No drama between Khalai and DT. So boring.



Non-sequitur.

Why? It makes sense. We never knew what the Khala was or what made it special, because a communal link seems an obvious option for regular psychics. Because the Khala is never clarified, we can't tell what makes the Khala's communal link so special.



The narration of the intro cinematic makes the importance of the Khala pretty clear, and I'm actually glad they didn't belabor the point any further.

I argue that it does not. We don't know what the Khala is, only what Blizzard claimed it did. Because of all the massive retcons, we don't know if it's a philosophy, a genetic trait, a magical power gotten from touching magic crystals, or what. It supposedly united the races, but since clearly the DT weren't united, this claim is weakened.



It's a philosophical system.

If we were talking SC1, I wouldn't argue with you. The retcons, man, the retcons! In any case, if the Khala is a philosophical system, it's an idea, not a physical thing that's capable of moving a Templar's blades. My main point there was just to say that the Templar sound like doofuses. Seriously, have you seen DS9? Most of the Klingons on that show are awful stereotypes.


I don't get it. Did you even play the game? Looks like all your gripes are a failure to understand or recall basic plot points.

There's nothing to understand. There's no depth. It's just melodramatic dialogue, shallow characters, and poor plot choices.

Granted, nothing I've said is about the gameplay. If you enjoy playing this game, don't let me change your mind. If you have fun playing it, that's the point. It's just that my main love for this game was based on plot, and if the plot is artificial and calculated to remove all potential drama, then I've effectively lost the will to care.

[Drake Clawfang]

Making an effort to navigate the absurdity...


- I've said it before, and I'll say it again. The armor for the Protoss is bulky, impractical, and ugly.

If that's your opinion, that's fine, it's opinion and that's a fine one to hold. However, that's hardly something to blame SC2 for.

http://starcraft.wikia.com/wiki/File:Zealot_SC1_Art1.jpg

That's the SC1 Zealot. Here's a SC2 Zealot.

http://starcraft.wikia.com/wiki/File:Zealot_SC2-LotV_Rend1.jpg

If anything, they toned it back.


In SC1, each Protoss voice felt distinct and well characterized to the person talking. Here, all the voices blend together. Fenix's actor reminded me of Aldaris at times.

That is not opinion - it's simply wrong. You play me a voice clip even now and I can tell you which Protoss character it is easily.


- Oh wait, so the plot's just going to reveal right away that the Khala is bad? No explanation of the mechanics of this?

What mechanics?


We don't even get to see any modern Judicator dealing with the situation.

Contrary to your previous reply - it has previously been strongly indicated the Judicators were wiped out with the fall of Aiur - arbiters were abandoned, the Conclave is dead, and Aldaris and his Khalai followers were killed. There is no reason to believe there are still Judicators in Protoss society, and if there once were they no longer hold such a title.

Now, expanded world lore *has* said that a few Judicators were still around after Brood War, and the Caste was dissolved following the establishment of the Hierarchy, but you pointedly ignore the novels and short stories and demand the game plots do the same, so as far as you should be concerned, they still don't exist anymore.


The only person who struggles with this choice, Rohana, is an ancient woman who's been in stasis for years. Thus, we don't get to see the effects of this loss on modern Protoss society.

Because Rohanna is enough. We also see a bit of Karax and Artanis lamenting being cut off, but it isn't hammered in.


Since we never knew the difference between the Khala and ordinary telepathy in the first place

Speak for yourself.

LotV and novels make the difference clear. The Khala is a deeper form of telepathy, where the Protoss directly sense emotions and thoughts, rather than just talk in each other's heads. It's like the Vulcan mind meld.


- The Protoss sound like DS9 Klingons. "Allow us to join you in battle!"

"En Taro Adun, there is no time to waste! We must join our brethren in battle!"

- SC1 Zealot.

I hate to keep hitting this note in these discussions, but if people are going to continue to hate things in SC2 that have been present since SC1 and act like it's SC2's fault, I'm going to continue to remind them otherwise.


"May the Khala guide our blades!" What the frick is the Khala that it can guide anything?

It's a blessing or a battle cry, it doesn't have to mean literal sense. If you demand it does, I have more SC1 Protoss quotes to bring up. It's just how their culture works.


- Karax just introduced himself, and Zeratul immediately calls him a friend?

"Hi Zeratul, I'm a prominent engineer, here to help you establish a base and find our leader."
"That does not make us friends."
"Yeesh, what a dick, no wonder you always travel alone."


- "Artanis, you must hold on. We are coming for you." how does Zeratul know that what happened to Artie won't happen to him? They figure out pretty quick that the Khala is to blame. How undramatic.

Let's see... Selendis senses a disturbance in the Khala, but Zeratul senses nothing, then the Khalai go insane while the Nerazim are unaffected. Do the math.


- Why does Raynor say "Like old times" in the Korhal missions? Raynor is never fighting with Artanis. Don't give me that "Artanis is the executor" bullcrap. Besides that being a retcon, I'm pretty sure there's some conflicting opinions on that, anyway. No matter the case, it's silly to point out "old times" when the players have never seen such times.

Once again, ignoring the expanded world building, but at least you acknowledge it exists before you decide to ignore it anyway. You're still wrong, but it's an improvement.


- Interfering in Terran matters seems weird. What right do they have? How many humans are okay with this?

"Raynor, it seems the throne world is under assault and your capital city is about to be crushed by a space station, killing countless innocents."
"Pretty much. We're stretched tight trying to defend everything and can't stop the fall."
"Well, you're busy then, I guess. I'll come back later."

It's not like he went to some random Dominion world Raynor was leading a rebellion on and took up arms to kill the soldiers, it was the capital of the Terran civilization, home to billions of people, under attack by servants of Amon and Narud.
Artanis would have been the biggest douche in the universe if he didn't help them, and it perplexes me how you can question this.


These mofos shake their shoulders a lot when they talk. Karax sure likes flapping his arms. "I just flew in from Aiur, and boy are my arms tired!"

TV Tropes calls it a Head Bob. The Protoss lack mouths, one of the most expression parts of the human face, so the developers use body language. It's common in many works of media including life-action film if the character is masked. The Protoss just standing there staring as they talk would be weird.


- Okay, so Shakuras was under attack when the rest of the Protoss were trying to take back Aiur, huh? Sounds dramatic. Maybe I'd like to have seen that. Huh, maybe it would have been a good idea to let the player choose between staying at Shakuras and trying to retake Aiur.

The attack happened after Amon's corruption of the Khala; when Shakuras was invaded, the Khalai on Aiur were busy trying to power up the Spear of Adun to flee Aiur. You the player are given the choice to immediately haul ass to Shakuras to make sure it's okay. It's not like they left their people in the middle of an zerg invasion to take care of other business. They're not the Conclave! :rolleyes:


- Does no one else think that the destruction of Shakuras was excessive and quick? They give up on the planet so easily, when it's the home of the Dark Templar, the refuge for the Khalai, and the bearer of a temple much like the one that was destroyed on Aiur. That's not going to be an easy loss to bear, especially not now that they've lost so much already.

I will admit, I'd have liked a third mission on Shakuras between the two we got to spend more time on the planet before we nuked it. However, it's understandable while they resorted to it. Their fleet is greatly lessened without the Golden Armada, the attack caught them by surprise, their cities are overrun, and there's Hybrids in addition to the zerg. They may have tried to hold them off, but there was no way they could have held Shakuras.


And did I miss it, or did they say where the bulk of Protoss civilians are staying at this point?

Yes, you missed it. They're living on the Spear of Adun; notice you see Protoss in civilian attire walking around, and Karax makes a point that the solar core also provides the nourishment they'd usually need from the sun.


- Um, why are they using Rohana to bring back Protoss culture strife when keeping Judicator around is a far more interesting, and up-to-date, a conflict?

Another opinion. Would you have just felt better if they called Rohana a Judicator, because you seem really hung up on wanting to see a Judicator in the game when they're all dead.


- Why does Rohanna get on Artanis' case about dealing with DTs and then immediately apologize for it? Why bother bringing it up if she isn't going to defend her position?

She sees them as heretics but is merely an adviser, not the leader. What Artie says goes, but she's going to voice her disagreements with it anyway.


- Fenix is the Stukov of this game: a beloved character coming back only to shame his memory and force the plot to go along.

A shallow comparison. Stukov went through unspeakable trauma and horror between games that drastically shifted his outlook on things. Fenix is a robot copy of the original Fenix that develops in a different direction, and thematically represents the struggle of the Protoss in this game between clinging to past glories or moving on to a new future.


- If the hybrids created other races, why are the Protoss the Firstborn? Blizz needs to be careful about their retcons.

One - the Hybrids didn't create shit, it was the Xel'naga.

Two - the Protoss were still the first creations, they just made more later.


- The problem with this story is the blending of lines, the eradification of distinction.

The entire focus of the story is the distinct protoss tribes - the Khalai, Nerazim, Purifiers, and Tal'darim, each represented by an important character that was/is a leader of that tribe, and Artanis is trying to keep them all united as he personally comes to understand, even appreciate, their differences and similarities. They are all separate cultures and tribes, but they are all also Protoss.

Frankly most of your complaints stem from not understanding the story because you either didn't care to try to, or the story and themes were too subtle for you to see.

[Turalyon]

People claim this is the best of the three SC2 games, but honestly, to me it's a twin of HotS, only with added Dehaka-like monologues and even more DBZ cutscenes.

The situation is kinda like the reaction to SW: Episode III. Some see it at as an improvement over what came before/the best of the current iteration and that it's signficant, whilst others say say that there's no significant distinction (crap that is improved or the "best" of it still doesn't make it not crap). I don't fall into either camp nor stay there for very long largely because I'm so inured by the experience that I can only be apathetic to it all. Likewise with Sc2, I can't even muster enough optimism say vehemently that LotV is better nor enough pessimism to vehemently say it's all just still crap anymore.

[Sheliek]

Biggest nitpick of all right now: one of the arbiter quotes is the pilot saying, "We judicators are eternally grateful that our Hierarch has allowed us to serve Aiur once more. And yet, you Templar are still wary of our actions. Our desire to fight for our homeworld is equal to any other."

Everyone who noticed unit quotes loved the dark archon mentioning Ulrezaj still being alive, and I can see how, lore-wise, that's much more tantalizing than this.

[Sheliek]

Biggest nitpick of all right now: one of the arbiter quotes is the pilot saying, "We judicators are eternally grateful that our Hierarch has allowed us to serve Aiur once more. And yet, you Templar are still wary of our actions. Our desire to fight for our homeworld is equal to any other."

Everyone who noticed unit quotes loved the dark archon mentioning Ulrezaj still being alive, and I can see how, lore-wise, that's much more tantalizing than this.

Everything else was said better by Gradius and Drake than I can be bothered to do.

[Nolanstar]

Also some of the protoss in "reclamation" are Judicators.

[Nissa]

If anything, they toned it back.

That's arguable, mostly because Protoss art, particularly unit portraits, tended to vary between cutscenes and gameplay. However, SC2 armor is certainly worse. It felt ridiculously cartoony for Artanis to be doing all kinds of flips and crap in that ridiculously bulky armor. SC1 armor at least looked like it could move.


That is not opinion - it's simply wrong. You play me a voice clip even now and I can tell you which Protoss character it is easily.

Maybe this is matter of opinion, but I am certainly not wrong. The voice clips here felt generic, other than Alarak's (probably more de Lancie's doing than the sound guys). If you can tell the difference, great, but with SC1 you could see Aldaris' arrogance, Tassadar's melodrama, Zeratul's contempt, etc. SC2 'Toss just sound like generic aliens.



What mechanics?

Ah, I meant story mechanics. That is, we don't know what the Khala is, so we don't know how Amon is able to control/corrupt it. It would have been far more dramatic if Khala characters just felt a little weird for a mission or so, and then Artanis or Zeratul discovers something Amon/Tal'darim are doing, and then blam! Khala corrupted. Just something more than the Khala instantly being corrupted, and everyone instantly knowing it's corrupted.



Contrary to your previous reply - it has previously been strongly indicated the Judicators were wiped out with the fall of Aiur - arbiters were abandoned, the Conclave is dead, and Aldaris and his Khalai followers were killed. There is no reason to believe there are still Judicators in Protoss society, and if there once were they no longer hold such a title.

Did you read my reply? A caste is not a title, it's a familial division. That is, people are born into castes. There are therefore children Judicator, Khalai, and Templar, as well as non-experts, who do not have important jobs or much in the way of special skills. They are therefore not capable of being wiped out, outside of cultural genocide. I am not willing to believe that all Khalani Protoss sided with Aldaris, nor can I believe that some civilians didn't stay out of it in the interest of survival. If I'm a Protoss widow with three kids, I'm going to think carefully about putting my family in danger.


Now, expanded world lore *has* said that a few Judicators were still around after Brood War, and the Caste was dissolved following the establishment of the Hierarchy, but you pointedly ignore the novels and short stories and demand the game plots do the same, so as far as you should be concerned, they still don't exist anymore.

Brood War has never at any point claimed that all the Judicator were gone. Again, the Judicator are a caste, not a series of people with jobs. Besides, Zeratul and Artanis would never have chosen to wipe out all Aldaris' followers if they could avoid it, and there's no evidence they allowed the Zerg to destroy them either.


Because Rohanna is enough. We also see a bit of Karax and Artanis lamenting being cut off, but it isn't hammered in.

No she's not. The story lacks drama because LotV ignored all the cultural divisions between the Protoss. Everyone's totes besties now, when really all the issues they had in the past haven't been close to being resolved. There's no dramatic tension between factions, and players aren't given choices based on factions. Potentially, factions could have had a huge impact on gameplay, when it didn't. The story could have also been a lot less "after school special", with everyone calling each other friend and talking about how much they like each other and all that crap.

Rohana sucks because she's a band-aid, there to serve a plot role. It's like Blizzard is saying, "we didn't forget their cultural drama! See?" And then they give us a character with no real consequence, who has no connection to modern day Khala followers.



Speak for yourself.

LotV and novels make the difference clear. The Khala is a deeper form of telepathy, where the Protoss directly sense emotions and thoughts, rather than just talk in each other's heads. It's like the Vulcan mind meld.

The Vulcan mind meld is ordinary telepathy, just with touch. That, and no, the novels don't really clarify it. Heck, in one of the novels, they show humans accessing the Khala, which should be impossible because they don't have nerve cords.


"En Taro Adun, there is no time to waste! We must join our brethren in battle!"

- SC1 Zealot.

I hate to keep hitting this note in these discussions, but if people are going to continue to hate things in SC2 that have been present since SC1 and act like it's SC2's fault, I'm going to continue to remind them otherwise.

Bear in mind I'm also referring to line delivery -- which was terrible. That, and the zealot here isn't saying stuff just to say it, he's making the point that the player should go into action, and go right now. In the segment of SC2 to which I referred, the zealots are just saying stuff for no reason.

In other words, it's NOT the same thing.



"Hi Zeratul, I'm a prominent engineer, here to help you establish a base and find our leader."
"That does not make us friends."
"Yeesh, what a dick, no wonder you always travel alone."

How is this relevant?

"Hi Zeratul, I'm a prominent engineer, here to help you establish a base and find our leader."
"Hey, bro! Let's be totes besties!"
"....Uh....maybe...maybe not." *steps back*

So what?


Let's see... Selendis senses a disturbance in the Khala, but Zeratul senses nothing, then the Khalai go insane while the Nerazim are unaffected. Do the math.

Happened too quick, too undramatically. Drama is story!


Once again, ignoring the expanded world building, but at least you acknowledge it exists before you decide to ignore it anyway. You're still wrong, but it's an improvement.

Saying I'm wrong without proving it doesn't make me wrong.

Alright, I'd argue with you further, but I've got to go to work soon. The short of it is, Blizzard took every chance they could to sap the drama out of this game. The dialogue sucks, the plot is inane, and people are friendly too quickly.


Turalyon, I could not agree with you more.

[ragnarok]

Biggest nitpick of all right now: one of the arbiter quotes is the pilot saying, "We judicators are eternally grateful that our Hierarch has allowed us to serve Aiur once more. And yet, you Templar are still wary of our actions. Our desire to fight for our homeworld is equal to any other."


Because I feel they're not trying to fight for Aiur in the same way. Likely, I'm willing to bet some of them still want to return to the Conclave's old ways. That's why they're looked down upon

[Sheliek]

Everything about your response makes no contextual sense when compared with the syntax, grammar or content of what I wrote. Try again, bearing in mind I was just making a remark that was attempting to clear up a minor point of contention within the discussion up to that point.

[TheEconomist]

So, Nissa, seriously ... I gotta know ... Why are you so reluctant to actually play the game?

[Nissa]

I've always liked Starcraft for the plot. I'm not willing to shell out money if the plot sucks.

That, and I'm moving into a new place and trying to get a new job. I don't have the money or time to spend on gaming right now.

[Nissa]

And, because I feel like it, more replies.


The attack happened after Amon's corruption of the Khala; when Shakuras was invaded, the Khalai on Aiur were busy trying to power up the Spear of Adun to flee Aiur. You the player are given the choice to immediately haul ass to Shakuras to make sure it's okay. It's not like they left their people in the middle of an zerg invasion to take care of other business. They're not the Conclave! :rolleyes:

You've misinterpreted what I said. I'm not accusing Artanis of anything. I'm just saying that watching Shakuras being invaded sounds interesting, and it's sad that they skipped over it.


I will admit, I'd have liked a third mission on Shakuras between the two we got to spend more time on the planet before we nuked it. However, it's understandable while they resorted to it. Their fleet is greatly lessened without the Golden Armada, the attack caught them by surprise, their cities are overrun, and there's Hybrids in addition to the zerg. They may have tried to hold them off, but there was no way they could have held Shakuras.

Well, yeah, it just kinda happened. I don't know...it's just that the 'Toss have lost so much, Shakuras' loss should have had a way bigger impact than it did.


Yes, you missed it. They're living on the Spear of Adun; notice you see Protoss in civilian attire walking around, and Karax makes a point that the solar core also provides the nourishment they'd usually need from the sun.

....What? That's what Blizzard went with? How big is the Spear of Adun? Either that thing's as big as a planet and can fit the population of Shakuras, or the Protoss have been so badly wiped out that all that exists of them now fits on a single vessel.

Holy hell, the 'Toss have it bad.

Before the game came out, I kinda assumed that the Spear was just something that the Protoss made to try and get Aiur back.


Another opinion. Would you have just felt better if they called Rohana a Judicator, because you seem really hung up on wanting to see a Judicator in the game when they're all dead.

Again, Judicator are a caste. They have families. Rohana is a relic from the past. She's not someone who has been there throughout the invasion of Aiur and has any important knowledge on what's going on. Showing the status of Judicator psychics and how they are now fitting into Daelaam culture is interesting. Bringing someone back who knows nothing so that the game can recap past events is not. Also applies to robot Fenix.



She sees them as heretics but is merely an adviser, not the leader. What Artie says goes, but she's going to voice her disagreements with it anyway.

I have no idea what you're trying to say. In any case, the particular line I'm talking about she's not advising Artie, she's yelling at him for being nice to DTs. Then Artie says one thing, and she's suddenly instantly repentant. If she hates DTs enough to yell about it, why does she immediately apologize? That's unnatural as a reaction.



A shallow comparison. Stukov went through unspeakable trauma and horror between games that drastically shifted his outlook on things. Fenix is a robot copy of the original Fenix that develops in a different direction, and thematically represents the struggle of the Protoss in this game between clinging to past glories or moving on to a new future.

Think in out-world terms. Both Stukov and Fenix were old, beloved characters that Blizzard artificially forced back into the plot in the attempt to force nostalgic feelings in, only they horribly mangled both characters in the process.




One - the Hybrids didn't create shit, it was the Xel'naga.

Two - the Protoss were still the first creations, they just made more later.

My bad, I meant to say Xel'naga.

In any case, that's a retcon of the manual. That, and the game itself doesn't mention a timeline. Bah, whatever, that's a can of worms. I'm just so sick of Blizzard adding crap to past events, when all we really wanted for Starcraft was the plot to go forward.



The entire focus of the story is the distinct protoss tribes - the Khalai, Nerazim, Purifiers, and Tal'darim, each represented by an important character that was/is a leader of that tribe, and Artanis is trying to keep them all united as he personally comes to understand, even appreciate, their differences and similarities. They are all separate cultures and tribes, but they are all also Protoss.

The Khalai have basically no representation. They just have a mechanic and a relic from the past. Purifiers are retcon-bots with no history with the Starcraft franchise. Tal'darim are jokes that Blizzard can't even keep consistent between the games and the novels. The Nerazim are the group Blizzard loved so much that they annihilated anyone's option to avoid joining them.

So yeah, claim that I only hate this because I "don't understand." Claim it all you like. But I understand perfectly well when Blizzard is taking everything I loved about the games and throwing it in the garbage.

[ragnarok]

The Khalai have basically no representation. They just have a mechanic and a relic from the past. Purifiers are retcon-bots with no history with the Starcraft franchise. Tal'darim are jokes that Blizzard can't even keep consistent between the games and the novels. The Nerazim are the group Blizzard loved so much that they annihilated anyone's option to avoid joining them.

So yeah, claim that I only hate this because I "don't understand." Claim it all you like. But I understand perfectly well when Blizzard is taking everything I loved about the games and throwing it in the garbage.

Actually in the case of the purifiers, you COULD the history was slightly implied back with the whole Reaver lore. Remember, the whole point of the Reaver was to avoid the loss of Protoss life on the battlefield. You'd think if that's true, other artificial machines would have been made by the Protoss and everything. The Colossi certainly was just that.

The Tal'darim's problem is that in the end, we still have no idea how they originated from. Blizzard chose to ignore this. Making matters worse, we had all hoped that the Tal'darim faction in WoL wasn't related to that in HotS and LotV because it'd make no sense for Narud to have Raynor steal the artifacts if he commanded the Tal'darim all along. Yet LotV hinted that the Tal'darim faction was still part of the Amon branch, but merely went crazy from too much terrazine exposure.

If we follow that logic, then EVERYONE'S sins in the SC universe can be blamed on the excuse of, "Oh I just took too much drugs."

[Drake Clawfang]

That's arguable, mostly because Protoss art, particularly unit portraits, tended to vary between cutscenes and gameplay.

We're not talking about unit portraits, we're talking about Protoss armor. And both in the victory screen, Fenix in FMVs, Tassadar in FMVs, and concept art, their armor more or less looks the same.


It would have been far more dramatic if Khala characters just felt a little weird for a mission or so, and then Artanis or Zeratul discovers something Amon/Tal'darim are doing, and then blam! Khala corrupted. Just something more than the Khala instantly being corrupted, and everyone instantly knowing it's corrupted.

That is what happened. Selendis said Artanis has vanished from the Khala, Selendis goes quiet, the Protoss go berserk (watch the escape to find Artie and you'll notice the Protoss fighting each other eventually all convert to Amon's faction and turn on you instead of each other), and Zeratul finds Artanis fighting Amon's control.


The story lacks drama because LotV ignored all the cultural divisions between the Protoss.

I repeat - the cultural divide between different Protoss factions is central to the plot.


That, and no, the novels don't really clarify it. Heck, in one of the novels, they show humans accessing the Khala, which should be impossible because they don't have nerve cords.

Yes, they do. The DT Saga shows Kortanul and Adun communing in the Khala so Kortanul can sense Adun's thoughts more directly and make sure he's trustworthy.

Presuming you mean the DT Saga, Jake never directly accessed the Khala himself; it was that, for a brief time, he joined everyone's minds in a manner similar to the Khala so they could sense each other's emotions and memories, the same type of revelation the Khala gave the Protoss. And I re-read that passage to check either way.


the zealot here isn't saying stuff just to say it, he's making the point that the player should go into action, and go right now. In the segment of SC2 to which I referred, the zealots are just saying stuff for no reason.

You are really stretching to complain about this. Again, something like "may the Khala guide my blades" is no different from a prayer or battle cry. It's like a soldier before battle saying something like "God be with us" or something.


Happened too quick, too undramatically. Drama is story!

Seeing the Protoss turn on you one by one and attacking you is not dramatic?


You've misinterpreted what I said. I'm not accusing Artanis of anything. I'm just saying that watching Shakuras being invaded sounds interesting, and it's sad that they skipped over it.

What do you think the first Shakuras mission was?


....What? That's what Blizzard went with? How big is the Spear of Adun?

This big.

http://starcraft.wikia.com/wiki/File:SpearofAdunCarrier_SC2_Phys1.jpg


Think in out-world terms. Both Stukov and Fenix were old, beloved characters that Blizzard brought back for the sequel...

And then developed them in different directions with different purposes for the plot. Your comparison is still shallow.


So yeah, claim that I only hate this because I "don't understand." Claim it all you like. But I understand perfectly well when Blizzard is taking everything I loved about the games and throwing it in the garbage.

At this point I'm leaning more towards you hate it because you don't want to like it. You seem to be clinging to any reason you can to complain, even when you don't actually have anything to complain about. The Spear of Adun and the Zealot dialogue are particularly eyebrow-raising in that regard. There are legitimate grievances to be had with LotV, both gameplay and story-wise, but there are much fewer than past games, and none of your complaints line-up with them.

[Turalyon]

^ Um... Rag, your non-sequiturs are showing. :p

[ragnarok]

^ Um... Rag, your non-sequiturs are showing. :p

If that's how Nissa will interpret it, fine, given his claims that LotV retconnned so much.

[KaiserStratosTygo]

Nah.

It's hard to get through.

but unlike HotS i'm still interested in playing the campaign (up until the epilogue)

HotS I really don't want to touch, that was the worst RTS campaign ever spawned.

But I do 100% agree on the "lens flare eyes"

that was annoying and goofy.

And yeah, Artanis armor is far too bulky and ridiculous, while the rest of the Protoss actually have a fairly decent cinematic design for their armor (tmore form fitting and less bulky)

[Nolanstar]

The Spear of Adun is Sclaed to 74 Kilometers, plenty big to house a few million civvies especially when you realize they can digitize them (warp prism)

[TheEconomist]

So yeah, claim that I only hate this because I "don't understand." Claim it all you like. But I understand perfectly well when Blizzard is taking everything I loved about the games and throwing it in the garbage.

I thought we were passed this. It's been five and a half years since StarCraft lore went south. LotV is the closest to the original storylines that the series has come so far. The focus is on the conflict and the overarching story. As hamfisted as it is in places, it's better than a focus on romance and other nonsense. Although, I'm stilling working through it. I haven't gotten to the epilogue, which I hear is pretty bad :(


I've always liked Starcraft for the plot. I'm not willing to shell out money if the plot sucks.

I'm not sure even I would be a fan of StarCraft lore (even the original) if it weren't for the game itself. How you've managed to care through all of this time, especially through StarCraft 2, will probably forever perplex me.

Also, the eye flare is fine. Seriously people.

[ragnarok]

Nah.

It's hard to get through.

but unlike HotS i'm still interested in playing the campaign (up until the epilogue)

HotS I really don't want to touch, that was the worst RTS campaign ever spawned.

But I do 100% agree on the "lens flare eyes"

that was annoying and goofy.

And yeah, Artanis armor is far too bulky and ridiculous, while the rest of the Protoss actually have a fairly decent cinematic design for their armor (tmore form fitting and less bulky)

Blame that on the Xel'Naga retcon, Stratos. I especially hated their interpretation of purity of form and everything. At least the purity of essence interpretation was close enough to what we hoped for.

HotS was not the worst either. You've played enough games where you've seen there are those who didn't even try, and others who tried but didn't know what they were doing.

Mainly I felt the whole SC2 series was because they thought "since WoW is so huge, maybe we can put all the traits from there into the SC universe", and that didn't work out.

[Turalyon]

I especially hated their interpretation of purity of form and everything. At least the purity of essence interpretation was close enough to what we hoped for.

Nah, the purity stuff is all messed up and muddy then ever. Why call ultimate psionic power purity of form when it's really purity of psionics? I mean, is it that hard to just call it as it is in the first place? The essence thing is even more nonsensical. Why call the ability for great change purity of essence when both seem to indicate two different and mutually exclusive things? I mean, how can something that is constantly mutating being called "pure" in any fashion? Seems like obfuscation for the sake of obfuscation.

It made more sense originally. Purity of Form is just that - an ideation regarding peak physical perfection. Purity of Essence - an ideation regarding the stability of ethos despite change - was a response to the Purity of Form being insufficient on its own to be classified as a perfect lifeform (according to Xel'Naga percepts).

[Nissa]

Wow, Tura, you seem to have understood it better than I did. I'm stuck on the out-world truth that both essence and form are just buzzwords.

I dunno, someday I'll get through this game. Someday. Econ, it's really my personality type that makes me choose the plot over the gameplay. That's why I said not to let me spoil that part for you. I'm just ranting about what spoiled what I enjoyed. If the game had simply not been what I expected, that's fine. But why LotV hurts more for me is because of what you said -- it's closer to actual SC lore, and ruins it. I can laugh at a Kerrigan rom com because that's stupid enough for me to ignore. Neither WoL nor HotS, as you said, had much to do with the core issues of Starcraft. Surely they should have. But also the lore should be handled with more respect, like we're talking about "real" people, not cartoons from movie trailers. Ugh, the melodramatic dialogue was a huge turnoff.

Maybe I expected too much. I just liked SC lore better when they left huge gaps of plot to the imagination. Heck, half the stuff we debate on this forums is or references stuff Blizzard never clarified in SC1. That makes it more interesting when it feels like we have more of a participatory role in SC lore, as well as making it easier for Blizz to write, since they don't have to fill in every gap.

Does anybody else listen to the Heroes of the Storm quotes and wonder why those guys didn't write SC2? Maybe I'm wrong and it is the same people, but somehow those guys seem to know how to create more natural dialogue. Maybe the writers were just trying too hard in LotV.

[Sheliek]

Preface: I got stuck on the last main mission before the epilogue and my mouse-hand's fucked right now, so I watched a walkthrough of the epilogue.

I enjoyed the Legacy of the Void plot. The epilogue wasn't even bad, just weird. I'd wager it's hard to do universe-spawning deities without weirdness being inevitable. It's a matter of how well that weirdness is handled. I can't really put my finger on the good or bad button, as it were, yet.

So, once my wrist is doing better, I'm going to be replaying Wings of Liberty through Into the Void in the shortest time possible to see how the whole thing handles as one work. I've been convinced that it will work best that way since before HotS came out, and I'm still convinced that's the case, having seen the finale in isolation.

As for why I replied with that here: should try the same, Nissa, if you put plot before gameplay.

[Turalyon]

Wow, Tura, you seem to have understood it better than I did. I'm stuck on the out-world truth that both essence and form are just buzzwords.

Yeah, it's kinda funny when I think about it now. It seems that some have trouble understanding what purity of form and essence are even when they've read the manual, which explains them pretty well (although not in dictionary-speak and exacting detail, mind you). Granted, the concepts (well really, only the essence one is) are a tad esoteric for the general lay-person, but any sci-fi lover worth their salt should've been able to see it when they read the manual in my opinion.


So, once my wrist is doing better, I'm going to be replaying Wings of Liberty through Into the Void in the shortest time possible to see how the whole thing handles as one work. I've been convinced that it will work best that way since before HotS came out, and I'm still convinced that's the case, having seen the finale in isolation.

Some very mild spoilers ahead for those who still happen to care...

I'll be very interested in this opinion - been looking for someone to try and review it as a whole rather than individually. I've long held that ever since HotS came out, Sc2 would not make for a very cohesive trilogy when LotV was to be released due to LotV being inherently and completely different from what came before. Ever since WoL and HotS came out, the Protoss are somewhat tangential to the actual main goings-on in those two installments since the focus is on Terran matters (yes, even HotS, which is supposed to be about Zerg, is really about a "Terran" woman exacting revenge on a "Terran" man who killed another "Terran" man for wholly "Terran" reasons).

The release of LotV and peoples subsequent opinions of it has actually confirmed/vindicated my suspicion of this since the specific focus of Protoss in LotV does give a kind of whiplash if one wants to see the trilogy as one whole. Sure, there are Terrans in it but they're only there to provide plot progression in regards the apt plot device that is the Keystone. In that sense, the main LotV could've done without Terran involvement at all. In fact, had we not seen WoL and HotS, I think LotV could have stand well on its own such that the actual Sc2 story could've started with LotV and we'd be none the wiser. So much for the trilogy hey?

This brings me to the epilogue. It's the only situation where the Terran characters are really brought back in a thematic way (as opposed to their plot progression role throughout the main LotV campaign) but a large part of the dissatisfaction, I think, is that it kinda feels ad hoc, as if the story just remembered that this is a trilogy and should include Terrans in some capacity beyond plot mechanics. Worse, it seems to undermine what the Protoss campaign was all about and what the majority of the time was spent on in LotV. To further the dissonance, there's a huge amount of irony present since the epilogue is actually needed to make Sc2 feel like a unified trilogy because without it, LotV would seem like a disjointed/out-of-position story compared to what came before.

[Sheliek]

You know, what you said about LotV seeming disconnected from the previous two installments got me thinking of a good use for post-Nova: Covert Ops campaigns. I think it would be interesting, and probably a good idea all things considered, to have, for instance, a protoss campaign taking place around the end of WoL and beginning of HotS, or more pertinent, Terran and Zerg campaigns during LotV.

But yeah, I'll post my thoughts during and after the playthrough.

[ragnarok]

Nah, the purity stuff is all messed up and muddy then ever. Why call ultimate psionic power purity of form when it's really purity of psionics? I mean, is it that hard to just call it as it is in the first place? The essence thing is even more nonsensical. Why call the ability for great change purity of essence when both seem to indicate two different and mutually exclusive things? I mean, how can something that is constantly mutating being called "pure" in any fashion? Seems like obfuscation for the sake of obfuscation.

It made more sense originally. Purity of Form is just that - an ideation regarding peak physical perfection. Purity of Essence - an ideation regarding the stability of ethos despite change - was a response to the Purity of Form being insufficient on its own to be classified as a perfect lifeform (according to Xel'Naga percepts).

That's what I didn't get with the whole purity of essence. In many ways I don't think Blizzard really understood the whole definition of "pure" in the first place, since that'd require things to be perfect regardless of the circumstances. That's never possible.

Essence to mean great change, THAT part I can easily accept, but I see your point to be pure in spirit or something. The whole being pure yet adapting to other situations and everything, well it just seems a bit contradictory.

[Sheliek]

If we use 'pure' to mean 'perfect', which is an acceptable definition, it kind of makes sense. Purity of essence makes sense as being able to perfectly make use of all genetic information they encounter. Purity of form makes less sense, until you remove the Khala from the equation.

Purity of essence: poetic space-god speak for 'able to perfectly use all life as it needs to.'
Purity of form: poetic space-god speak for 'perfect as-is.'

But I am tired, and maybe purity of form was something else, it's been a few weeks. But if both of those are accurate, the requirement of both makes sense. The pure-of-essence are able to improve upon the already as-perfect-as-otherwise-possible = xel'naga.

[ragnarok]

I'll be very interested in this opinion - been looking for someone to try and review it as a whole rather than individually. I've long held that ever since HotS came out, Sc2 would not make for a very cohesive trilogy when LotV was to be released due to LotV being inherently and completely different from what came before. Ever since WoL and HotS came out, the Protoss are somewhat tangential to the actual main goings-on in those two installments since the focus is on Terran matters (yes, even HotS, which is supposed to be about Zerg, is really about a "Terran" woman exacting revenge on a "Terran" man who killed another "Terran" man for wholly "Terran" reasons).


This was a reason why I had argued you cannot judge HotS on its own because it's part of a trilogy. Many people had said that the story sucked balls because it was nothing about revenge, and that Kerrigan's stupidity had left the terrans completely defenseless and easy pickings for Amon.

But after LotV, you can try looking at it another way. All we have to do is go right back to HotS mission 3, just as Kerrigan heard the announcement of Raynor's "death." I still argue that right BEFORE that moment, she was considering abandoning the whole revenge plot.

Now, let's pretend she actually did that. Zeratul would still have contacted her and all of course, she just wouldn't listen. It's likely by this point in time, Zeratul already know what Duran did with the artifact and how it helped Amon. Once Amon is free from the void, he would have targeted Kerrigan anyway. Assuming she even tried to reunite the swarm, never going to Zerus would have meant most of the swarm would have fallen Amon's control, WAY more than just the 5 billion feral Zerg on Aiur.

That would mean not only would Kerrigan have to deal with Amon's hybrid army, his enslaved Zerg broods, but also Mengsk and the Dominion. Not to mention the Dominion had a hybrid breeding program, which Duran was using to his advantage in playing Mengsk for a fool.

Assuming Duran was NOT going to spring the trap to betray Mengsk and leave the artifact in the palace with him, Artanis would have been hard pressed to obtain the keystone, since only Raynor and his Raiders are allies with the Protoss, the Dominion military is not. Furthermore, with the whole Khala corruption and the loss of virtually the whole Golden Armada, Artanis's forces aboard the Spear of Adun would have been too weak to fight the Dominion military (since we're operating under the assumption that Kerrigan did not seek out revenge, so therefore the whole Dominion fleet would have been left intact). The Keystone, therefore, would have remained in Mengsk's hands, at least until Duran decides to spring the trap.

Furthermore, Zeratul's plan to awaken the Xel'Naga to fight Amon was sound, but he did NOT factor in the possibility Amon already thought of that and killed the other Xel'Naga at Ulnar. With them gone, the only hope lay with the Keystone (just as LotV explained), which is currently in the hands of a tyrant who blantantly ignores all reality no matter what. If Duran sprang the trap and took the Keystone from him, who knows where it would have ended up, but likely in a place where Artanis would NEVER succeed in getting it.

In addition, due to the hybrids enslaving Moebius corps as they were building the hybrids, it wouldn't surprise me if the hybrids in the Dominion program could have done the same thing to the Dominion military. If that happened, Amon would have held everything: the enslaved Golden Armada, a much greater number of enslaved Zerg, the enslaved Moebius Corps, and the enslaved Dominion military.

The only forces left to oppose him would have been a very weakened swarm (assuming Kerrigan even chose to reunite the Zerg), the Raiders (too small in number under Raynor), and what little forces Artanis has with the Spear of Adun.

.

Therefore, the Q you should be asking isn't about the whole revenge plot. Rather, what you should ask is: if Kerrigan really HAD abadoned the whole revenge matter, would the alternative really have been better?

- - - Updated - - -


If we use 'pure' to mean 'perfect', which is an acceptable definition, it kind of makes sense. Purity of essence makes sense as being able to perfectly make use of all genetic information they encounter. Purity of form makes less sense, until you remove the Khala from the equation.

Purity of essence: poetic space-god speak for 'able to perfectly use all life as it needs to.'
Purity of form: poetic space-god speak for 'perfect as-is.'

But I am tired, and maybe purity of form was something else, it's been a few weeks. But if both of those are accurate, the requirement of both makes sense. The pure-of-essence are able to improve upon the already as-perfect-as-otherwise-possible = xel'naga.

There's no such thing as "perfect as it is". One way or another, however small or large, you WILL have to adapt to changing environments. This is a fundamental biological process. Otherwise, why the hell does anyone ever have to evolve in the first place?

[Sheliek]

The follow-up version was more accurate to my meaning: 'as perfect as otherwise possible.'

[Turalyon]

If we use 'pure' to mean 'perfect', which is an acceptable definition, it kind of makes sense. Purity of essence makes sense as being able to perfectly make use of all genetic information they encounter.

Not really. The term "essence" has literally and figuratively nothing to do with "being able to perfectly make use of all genetic information" nor was this particular distinction "revealed" in Sc2 actually being required at all. The manual actually explains it best in how the Protoss are deemed a failure because their "essence" (their spirit/ethos/soul or whatever other synonym) was corrupted when being confronted with change (ie: the Xel'Naga's overt presence/ direct interference following first contact with the Protoss) and they thereforce decided to make a lifeform that was pure of "essence" as a result (unlike the Protoss, this race would be able to endure change of any kind but it's essence/spirit/ethos/soul would be pure throughout).


Purity of form makes less sense, until you remove the Khala from the equation.

It makes perfect sense in the manual and it's simple to understand, too. Purity of Form is about simply perfect physicality, nothing more and nothing less.


Purity of essence: poetic space-god speak for 'able to perfectly use all life as it needs to.'
Purity of form: poetic space-god speak for 'perfect as-is.'

No, no. The Xel'Naga were originally just scientists. It would make sense for them use apt scientific terminology to classify their observations, not "poetic god speak". Lol



This was a reason why I had argued you cannot judge HotS on its own because it's part of a trilogy. Many people had said that the story sucked balls because it was nothing about revenge, and that Kerrigan's stupidity had left the terrans completely defenseless and easy pickings for Amon...

...Now, let's pretend she actually did that....

...Therefore, the Q you should be asking isn't about the whole revenge plot. Rather, what you should ask is: if Kerrigan really HAD abadoned the whole revenge matter, would the alternative really have been better?

Sorry, Rag. All of this has nothing to do with what I was talking about. Also, one shouldn't have to "pretend" unless one is given distinct reason to by the narrative. The question at hand is about the trilogy as a whole and what it's ultimately supposed to be about. It's kinda messy when seen as a whole since it doesn't seem to know whether it's all about Kerrigan or whether it's all about Amon, Hybrids and Xel'Naga stuff.

[KaiserStratosTygo]

"Also, the eye flare is fine. Seriously people."

Nah.


"HotS was not the worst either."

Sure it is, well, maybe second to C&C4 twilight, but I never bothered to finish that piece of shit game.


"The epilogue wasn't even bad"

Nope, it was bad, weird would be a godsend.

it was shit, the most hamfisted, forced and stupid ending they could possibly have gone.


"I'd wager it's hard to do universe-spawning deities without weirdness being inevitable."

which is why it should not be done, Blizzard dug this hole.

[Sheliek]

Was gonna deliberately reword your responses to your deliberately reworded quotes, but nah: you are the most unpleaseable nitpicker I've ever seen, just throwing that out there.

EDIT: First part was wrong so I need sleep. Second part was still correct.

[ragnarok]

Nope, it was bad, weird would be a godsend.

it was shit, the most hamfisted, forced and stupid ending they could possibly have gone.



It wasn't crap, Stratos. Just greater sacrifices should have been needed. Let Kerrigan ascend, but have her use up the power just to drop Amon's barrier. Let the Protoss people finish the job.

[drakolobo]

the Judicators not disappeared, the conclave, old Judicators disappeared, being the power vacuum, the Protoss turned their support to the leaders of the Templar caste hierarchy even had two judictore, nahaan and zekrath. urun Templar caste had contempt vs Nahaan leadership aspirations and showed zekrath belief that artanis was the only viable leader, the Judicators besides low level adopt a bureaucratic role in their younger members, as Templars police and soldiers, and Khalai assistants masters the phase

[Sheliek]

If I had to make a guess about the whole judicator mess, I'd wager they still serve a social role as opposed to a political one. Tactical advisors, whatever you'd call Khalai priests, things like that. It's evident, all the same, they're still around and still functional members of Daelaam society in some capacity.

That's a thing to ask in any lore Q&As that come up, I'd say.

[ragnarok]

If I had to make a guess about the whole judicator mess, I'd wager they still serve a social role as opposed to a political one. Tactical advisors, whatever you'd call Khalai priests, things like that. It's evident, all the same, they're still around and still functional members of Daelaam society in some capacity.

That's a thing to ask in any lore Q&As that come up, I'd say.


They would be around, though even after everything that's happened, I still bet they wouldn't have learned. After reading the DT Saga, it seemed that Nahaan and his Ara tribe still didn't really learn much despite the loss of Aiur to the Zerg. You could easily see in that book that a part of him still wanted a greater say in things, perhaps even going back to the old Conclave's ways.

This is exactly the problem with people who held power for so long: it takes quite a while before they can understand that power has been taken from them. And since the Conclave ruled Aiur for 3000 years and the Ara Tribe dominated the Conclave, I just don't think they understand.

I wouldn't be surprised that with Amon gone, the judicators would argue that it's ok to get the Khala back again, since that had proven the only way to unite the Protoss people back then.

[sandwich_bird]

I don't know about lens flare but light bulb eyes have always been there. Google Tassadar's BW portrait. They might look more "fuming" (kinda like night elves' eyes) but that has more to do with the cartoony art direction than the eyes themselves.

I agree with the voices being less distinctive than BW. But, I wouldn't blame voice actors. Since WoL, I just found the sound effects of SC2 poorly done. I feel like everything lacks power behind it. Everything feels weak. That's just my opinion of course.

[Gradius]

Lens flare adds a cinematic effect.

[KaiserStratosTygo]

"I don't know about lens flare but light bulb eyes have always been there. Google Tassadar's BW portrait. They might look more "fuming" (kinda like night elves' eyes) but that has more to do with the cartoony art direction than the eyes themselves. "

the flare's weren't, which is what I believe Nissa was talking about (and definitely what I was)



"I agree with the voices being less distinctive than BW. But, I wouldn't blame voice actors. Since WoL, I just found the sound effects of SC2 poorly done. I feel like everything lacks power behind it. Everything feels weak. That's just my opinion of course."

Agreed, I can't remember any of the SC2 sound effects off the top of my head, but 1 year after playing SC1 the first time (somewhere in 2000) I started remembering all of the sound effects and still do to this day.

[Nissa]

I don't know about lens flare but light bulb eyes have always been there. Google Tassadar's BW portrait. They might look more "fuming" (kinda like night elves' eyes) but that has more to do with the cartoony art direction than the eyes themselves.

I liked the look of the light bulb eyes. They were dynamic, distinctive, and varied per character. Now it just looks like all the 'Toss have laser pointers embedded in their faces.


I agree with the voices being less distinctive than BW. But, I wouldn't blame voice actors. Since WoL, I just found the sound effects of SC2 poorly done. I feel like everything lacks power behind it. Everything feels weak. That's just my opinion of course.

To a lesser degree, I do blame the voice actors (other than de Lancie). There's been weak voice acting even with the human actors, particularly Warfield. But yeah, it does appear that the bulk of the blame can go to voice effects and dialogue.


Lens flare adds a cinematic effect.

Please tell me you're making a JJ Abrams joke.

[TheEconomist]

Please tell me you're making a JJ Abrams joke.

No, the Protoss are psionics. The eye flare emphasises this. Besides, it looks pretty cool, in some instances, not so much in others. Either way, not a problem. No need to nitpick every damn thing.

[Nissa]

It's not a nitpick if the 'Toss look dumb. I mean, it would be if the Protoss were otherwise interesting looking, but as is, it's one component of why they look so dang awkward and assembly-line generated.

[Sheliek]

I agree that the more visually interesting variety in the eyes in the first game would've been better to the static, all-the-same eyes in SC2. In the first game, some looked smokey, others were the lens-flare eyes, some were in between. In addition, there was colour variety and some characters even had their colour change during speech. Zeratul was yellow, orange and red depending on frame. Now, with a couple exceptions, Khalai are blue, Nerazim are green, Tal'darim are red. Having them be like mood rings would've been my choice: colour would be soft when calm, and simple lens flare eyes. If they were angered, for example, the eyes would darken and become more fiery in design.

[KaiserStratosTygo]

Yeah, not sure what happened to Orange eyes, most protoss in SC1 had orange back then.

not a fan of the "friend or foe" coloring Blizzard does with literally everything now.

[UrunOfTheAuriga]

With the exception of Zeratul's death LotV was completely anti-climactic.

No Urun. No Mohandar. No tribal segregation. Not even Selendis. Not a single refference to the built up this far. Just a gigantic "OMG PLOT TWIST THE KHALA WAS EVIL ALL ALONG WHATCH KERIGGAN REDEEMING HER SELF OFF HER GENOCIDAL CRIMES BY BECOMING FLAMING ANGEL GOD - lol - PLZ RATE MY OC! (also Dark and Edgy Black and Red pragmatic Tal'Darim because the Dark Templar weren't edgy enough)".

At least Alarak was a really enjoyable character in his durknedgyness and that Judicator/Preserver lady was played pretty well IMO.

[TheEconomist]

"We'll turn the Queen of Blades into the Angel of Blades. Emotional redemption for the masses! Brilliant! I can taste the pre-orders now!"

[ragnarok]

"We'll turn the Queen of Blades into the Angel of Blades. Emotional redemption for the masses! Brilliant! I can taste the pre-orders now!"

That's only because they got too much inspiration from the Phoenix Force, which was never a good thing in marvel anyway. Besides if they wanted that they should have aimed for it at the beginning of HotS. Still, given the alternatives....

[KaiserStratosTygo]

lol - PLZ RATE MY OC!

So much of this.

My Karakter is nmaed "Sierra Harding" and she truns into a watre GODD AND HAS KEWL WHINGZ Every1 will c her redmpetion and no 1 can deni her gretness she dindu nuffin!

ORIGINAL CHARACTER DO NOT STEAL

but in all seriousness, yeah, she's a fan fic character.

[ragnarok]

So much of this.

My Karakter is nmaed "Sierra Harding" and she truns into a watre GODD AND HAS KEWL WHINGZ Every1 will c her redmpetion and no 1 can deni her gretness she dindu nuffin!

ORIGINAL CHARACTER DO NOT STEAL

but in all seriousness, yeah, she's a fan fic character.

More times than not I always wonder if you had ever believed in redemption to anything, Stratos (and I'm not talking just the SC genre either)

[KaiserStratosTygo]

More times than not I always wonder if you had ever believed in redemption to anything, Stratos (and I'm not talking just the SC genre either)

Not for unrepentant mass murderers.

[TheEconomist]

*Ragpalm*

[ragnarok]

Not for unrepentant mass murderers.

I don't think she was unrepentant, but she have a serious problem in thinking everyone else was a bit too stupid to do anything, not realizing at times, she was playing into Amon's hands. That's why I hope for her to learn post LotV

[TheEconomist]

It wasn't told well or bult up well, but she was technically repentant. The epilogue alone shows that. Whether it's convincing is another thing, but that's bad story telling, not a lore fact. She is repentant with as much consistency as just about anything in SC2 these days.

[ragnarok]

It wasn't told well or bult up well, but she was technically repentant. The epilogue alone shows that. Whether it's convincing is another thing, but that's bad story telling, not a lore fact. She is repentant with as much consistency as just about anything in SC2 these days.

That's why I always felt if nothing else, she should have lost the Xel'Naga powers. Yes she did see beyond herself in the end, but as many other sci-fi stories have shown in such scenarios, by then it's too late to escape retribution

[TheEconomist]

*Ragpalm*

[KaiserStratosTygo]

It wasn't told well or bult up well, but she was technically repentant. The epilogue alone shows that. Whether it's convincing is another thing, but that's bad story telling, not a lore fact. She is repentant with as much consistency as just about anything in SC2 these days.

She's about as repentant as my own asshole.

[TheEconomist]

Either you're exaggerating to, once again, rant about the shitty story telling and the contradictions, or you're unable to understand basic sentence structure.

[KaiserStratosTygo]

Either you're exaggerating to, once again, rant about the shitty story telling and the contradictions, or you're unable to understand basic sentence structure.

No, she's just not repentant.

not "technically"

not "thematically"

not "literally"

not "kind of"

in now way is she repentant, at all.

"or you're unable to understand basic sentence structure."

Or you just don't understand what "repentant" means, because that's sure as fuck not this character.

[TheEconomist]

Blizzard intended her to be a repentant character. Fact. She is a repentant character, even though its never demonstrated effectively.

Arcturus Mengsk was intended to be an effective leader. Fact. He is an effective leader, even though he's a joke.

Azmodan was intended to be a strategic and tactical genius. Fact. He is a strategic and tactical genius, even though he's an idiot.

Shitty story telling and inconsistencies have nothing to do with internal lore and that's what we're talking about here.

[KaiserStratosTygo]

"Blizzard intended her to be a repentant character."

And failed utterly.

" She is a repentant character,"

No she isn't.

"even though its never demonstrated effectively."

It's not demonstrated, period.

"Arcturus Mengsk was intended to be an effective leader. Fact. He is an effective leader, even though he's a joke."

This is true.

"Azmodan was intended to be a strategic and tactical genius. Fact. He is a strategic and tactical genius, even though he's an idiot."

I don't know, this is a diablo character, yes?

"Shitty story telling and inconsistencies have nothing to do with internal lore and that's what we're talking about here."

What "internal lore"? what do you mean?

No attempts were made to make this character repentant, plain and simple, whether they planned on having that happen or not is irrelevant because it's not in the games in any way shape or form.

not explicitly and not implicitly.

[ragnarok]

Blizzard intended her to be a repentant character. Fact. She is a repentant character, even though its never demonstrated effectively.

Arcturus Mengsk was intended to be an effective leader. Fact. He is an effective leader, even though he's a joke.

Azmodan was intended to be a strategic and tactical genius. Fact. He is a strategic and tactical genius, even though he's an idiot.

Shitty story telling and inconsistencies have nothing to do with internal lore and that's what we're talking about here.

I always felt Mengsk was a useless leader. For the most part SC2 showed the only thing he WAS good at was shooting his mouth off with hollow bombast

[Turalyon]

Eco's got you on this Strat.

Kerrigan is repentant in the epilogue - she chooses to ascend because she wants to make up for the stuff she's done. Granted, it's not a very effective demonstration (in that it's feels like an informed trait/seems like pat exposition) but it is there.

[KaiserStratosTygo]

Eco's got you on this Strat.

Kerrigan is repentant in the epilogue - she chooses to ascend because she wants to make up for the stuff she's done. Granted, it's not a very effective demonstration (in that it's feels like an informed trait/seems like pat exposition) but it is there.

She doesn't do so to make up about what she's done, she doesn't care about that at all.

nothing repentant about anything she's said or done in that scene.

[Turalyon]

She doesn't do so to make up about what she's done, she doesn't care about that at all.

nothing repentant about anything she's said or done in that scene.

I'm afraid the game itself says otherwise:

"Kerrigan: No, Jim. With all I've done-the lives ruined... worlds destroyed... There's blood on my hands. I need to cleanse it. This is my destiny."

Like I said, it's too little, too late and not very effective/meaningful. Doesn't mean it didn't happen though.

[ragnarok]

I'm afraid the game itself says otherwise:

"Kerrigan: No, Jim. With all I've done-the lives ruined... worlds destroyed... There's blood on my hands. I need to cleanse it. This is my destiny."

Like I said, it's too little, too late and not very effective/meaningful. Doesn't mean it didn't happen though.

And at the end of the last epilogue mission, she specifically said she chose freedom for others. That means ultimately she DID see beyond herself.

Unfortunately, if nothing else, she shoud have at least lost her Xel'Naga powers and everything for that.

[TheEconomist]

Like I said, it's too little, too late and not very effective/meaningful. Doesn't mean it didn't happen though.

My point exactly.

I'd like to purify it from my headcanon, but that wouldn't change the fact that it is there.

[ragnarok]

My point exactly.

I'd like to purify it from my headcanon, but that wouldn't change the fact that it is there.

Then you can hope at the end of the epilogue, Amon merely faked his death, we can bring him back in SC3, THEN we can continue the redemption process

[TheEconomist]

*Epicragpalm*

[Nissa]

Ah, no internet for a couple of days, and then come back to this. You guys are great. :D

Yeah, it's pretty obvious that Kerrigan was being set up for redemption as early as BW. That was as inevitable as the hybrids. And like the hybrids, her redemption plot was more interesting in our heads in the post BW hiatus. Oh man, so much plot potential down the drain...heck, even the Sons of War mod was a far better sequel, despite us killing off Artanis.

[ragnarok]

Ah, no internet for a couple of days, and then come back to this. You guys are great. :D

Yeah, it's pretty obvious that Kerrigan was being set up for redemption as early as BW. That was as inevitable as the hybrids. And like the hybrids, her redemption plot was more interesting in our heads in the post BW hiatus. Oh man, so much plot potential down the drain...heck, even the Sons of War mod was a far better sequel, despite us killing off Artanis.

Killing off Artanis back then was fine, his character was still meh back in the BW days

- - - Updated - - -


*Epicragpalm*

Right now I need a break from the battlenet forums for a little while. Tired of the bastards (DDay and Retlo mainly) negging me everywhere I go

[Nissa]

I actually liked BW Artanis. He was such a sweet little puppy, and totally overwhelmed with sudden responsibility. It feels like a huge waste of potential that they never showed his transformation from puppy to competent leader.

[ragnarok]

I actually liked BW Artanis. He was such a sweet little puppy, and totally overwhelmed with sudden responsibility. It feels like a huge waste of potential that they never showed his transformation from puppy to competent leader.

They chose the Deus Ex Machina path again, what'd you expect?

[Nissa]

I just had a thought the other night. You know how that one preserver chick cuts off her nerve cords, and says they don't need to hold on to the past so much? What if that's a message from Blizzard? Like, they're trying to say, "let go of SC1, this is now the way Starcraft is. Deal with it."

That would just make so much sense.

[Gradius]

I just had a thought the other night. You know how that one preserver chick cuts off her nerve cords, and says they don't need to hold on to the past so much? What if that's a message from Blizzard? Like, they're trying to say, "let go of SC1, this is now the way Starcraft is. Deal with it."

That would just make so much sense.
Its not just that one scene. The entire trilogy is a giant middle finger to SC1 fans.

[TheEconomist]

Blizzard consistently demonstrated a condescending attitude towards fans. From openly, actively sabotaging Diablo 3's PvP because that way of fun is wrong, to laughing at the criticisms of its art style by throwing in Whimsyshire, to, yes, almost the entire StarCraft 2 trilogy, the new Blizzard has definitely got some grudges against those that like the old Blizzard better.

[ragnarok]

Its not just that one scene. The entire trilogy is a giant middle finger to SC1 fans.

Their inability to look at the lore AT ALL is the problem. A major problem in LotV was abusing the whole vagueness of the Xel'Naga set up in SC1.

[Turalyon]

I just had a thought the other night. You know how that one preserver chick cuts off her nerve cords, and says they don't need to hold on to the past so much? What if that's a message from Blizzard? Like, they're trying to say, "let go of SC1, this is now the way Starcraft is. Deal with it."

There's a silver-lining with that meta though. Since Sc2's story is technically the past now, too, it should also be OK for us to not hold onto that/forget that the past tripe that was Sc2's narrative happened.... Presto, I've done it already!! :p

[ragnarok]

There's a silver-lining with that meta though. Since Sc2's story is technically the past now, too, it should also be OK for us to not hold onto that/forget that the past tripe that was Sc2's narrative happened.... Presto, I've done it already!! :p

Just assume it was all a dream, Turalyon

[Turalyon]

^ You're reading comprehension needs some work, Rag.

[Nissa]

There's a silver-lining with that meta though. Since Sc2's story is technically the past now, too, it should also be OK for us to not hold onto that/forget that the past tripe that was Sc2's narrative happened.... Presto, I've done it already!! :p

Well, what with "Tassadar" being retconned back into being dead, I can only assume this is canon.

Then again, they did use Michael Dorn instead of James Gough to voice Tassadar, so maybe they had it planned all along....nah.

[KaiserStratosTygo]

Then you can hope at the end of the epilogue, Amon merely faked his death, we can bring him back in SC3, THEN we can continue the redemption process

God no.


Blizzard consistently demonstrated a condescending attitude towards fans. From openly, actively sabotaging Diablo 3's PvP because that way of fun is wrong, to laughing at the criticisms of its art style by throwing in Whimsyshire, to, yes, almost the entire StarCraft 2 trilogy, the new Blizzard has definitely got some grudges against those that like the old Blizzard better.

Exactly.

I crafted a very well deserved "fuck you" in my final rant towards them, on the forums, hopefully by some act of nature a blizzard employee sees it before it's locked/deleted and they know and fully understand.

MY SEETHING AND UNENDING SCORN AND HATRED FOR EVERYTHING THEY DO.

I want them to know that if they died tomorrow, they could count on me to be there, and to SMILE in the most sociopathic/edgelord way possible.

It's so obvious that's what this shit blizzard is all about "get over the quality of the past games and company" "Accept our terrible ideas and ridiculous stances"

Anyway blizzard sucks, rant over.

Still will never understand not hiring Michael Gough and Glynnis Talken Campbell.

as well as hiring anyone competent for Zeratul, Fred does not work for that role, after hearing his voice a trillion times on Family guy and other shows.

his voice just doesn't work.

[TheEconomist]

Get another hobby. This one isn't working for you. Better yet, go survive in the wilderness for a bit. You need it.

[ragnarok]

God no.



I will not let go of the redemption process, Stratos, you know this

[TheEconomist]

Yes, we know.

*ragpalm*

[KaiserStratosTygo]

Get another hobby. This one isn't working for you. Better yet, go survive in the wilderness for a bit. You need it.

Nah, I think I'll do whatever I please instead.

I like that one better.

You can go play in traffic for a bit though, it might build some character.

[TheEconomist]

Just keep your masochism over there and we can keep it movin'.

It'd be nice though if you could at least come up with something new. The childish, trap queen temper tantrums ("I DO WHAT I WANT!! ARRRRRGGHHHH!! I'M GOING TO SCRATCH YOUR EYES OUT!!!) is beyond old.

[KaiserStratosTygo]

Just keep your masochism over there and we can keep it movin'.

It'd be nice though if you could at least come up with something new. The childish, trap queen temper tantrums ("I DO WHAT I WANT!! ARRRRRGGHHHH!! I'M GOING TO SCRATCH YOUR EYES OUT!!!) is beyond old.

Nah, I think I'll do what I want instead.

it sure is pissing you off though, which does make me smile.

Accept it, embrace it, know me as your true lord and savior.

and I'll KEEP doing it too, just to make sure this dead horse that enrages you ever so much causes you to take my advice and have an adventure in the free way.

Go on.

Do it.

The more you resist the more I continue.

Solution: Do not resist.

[ragnarok]

Nah, I think I'll do what I want instead.

it sure is pissing you off though, which does make me smile.

Accept it, embrace it, know me as your true lord and savior.

and I'll KEEP doing it too, just to make sure this dead horse that enrages you ever so much causes you to take my advice and have an adventure in the free way.

Go on.

Do it.

The more you resist the more I continue.

Solution: Do not resist.

Stratos, this is exactly one of the reasons I've seen online why people aren't pleased with you

[Sheliek]

Just keep your masochism over there and we can keep it movin'.

It'd be nice though if you could at least come up with something new. The childish, trap queen temper tantrums ("I DO WHAT I WANT!! ARRRRRGGHHHH!! I'M GOING TO SCRATCH YOUR EYES OUT!!!) is beyond old.

Stop oppressing rainman. He's clearly mentally challenged.

[TheEconomist]

it sure is pissing you off though, which does make me smile.

It's really not. Here, let me show you.

*Ignore*

[KaiserStratosTygo]

Stop oppressing rainman. He's clearly mentally challenged.

Oh the irony of this.

not to mention the content of the guy you're quoting.


"It'd be nice though if you could at least come up with something new."

And Econ thought I was uncreative!


It's really not. Here, let me show you.

*Ignore*

Aww, no more cheeky cunt posts? well, shit, now I am disappointed.

I'm so sorry that I pissed you off this much.

[DemolitionSquid]

esEdC0c3YI4

[KaiserStratosTygo]

Rain is pretty fucking cool.

it smells great, it looks cool, it feels nice on a summer day.

Rain is awesome.

[ragnarok]

Rain is pretty fucking cool.

it smells great, it looks cool, it feels nice on a summer day.

Rain is awesome.

And where I am, we need more of it. Southern CA is nothing but a desert

[Sheliek]

Oh the irony of this.

not to mention the content of the guy you're quoting.


Nothing ironic about it, bud. Rainmen is an insult for autists, not schizophrenics. At least most schizophrenics are able to avoid having months (years?)-long temper tantrums.

[KaiserStratosTygo]

And where I am, we need more of it. Southern CA is nothing but a desert

Well, Southern Cali literally is nothing but desert.

I've been there (as a wee lad)


"Nothing ironic about it, bud. Rainmen is an insult for autists, not schizophrenics. At least most schizophrenics are able to avoid having months (years?)-long temper tantrums."

You know what's amusing?

Having a conversation with Ragnarok of all people discussing the deserts of California is more interesting than this zombie horse of an "insult"

Get with the times, brah.

The cool kids have moved on from this fad, time to turn in your pogs and get hip.

[Sheliek]

The salt is real. So when are you gonna shoot up Blizzard HQ and/or yourself bud? It's obvious to anyone watching you're gonna snap soon. Can you livestream it?

[KaiserStratosTygo]

The salt is real. So when are you gonna shoot up Blizzard HQ and/or yourself bud? It's obvious to anyone watching you're gonna snap soon. Can you livestream it?

I will use my doomsday device to plunge the entire state into the sea destroying Blizzard HQ and decimating their control.

And yes it will be live-streamed! gotta get some subs to my channel somehow, you know?

[ragnarok]

I will use my doomsday device to plunge the entire state into the sea destroying Blizzard HQ and decimating their control.

And yes it will be live-streamed! gotta get some subs to my channel somehow, you know?

And you're the one always saying I was mad, Stratos.

[TheEconomist]

Here's something funny I just happened to see:

http://www.gamespot.com/reviews/starcraft-2-legacy-of-the-void-review/1900-6416314/


Legacy of the Void is an excellent follow-up to 2013's Heart of the Swarm, even if it doesn't quite match the brilliance of Wings of Liberty


All that remains is to see it all come together as we ask one final question: Is this what we've all been waiting for? The answer is: absolutely.


Those looking for some resolution to the conflicts that started way back in 1998 will almost certainly come away satisfied.


Delightfully campy campaign


Structurally, the campaign also helps reinforce the idea that you're fighting a losing war against an overwhelming force.


The game's voice cast sells their roles with such gravitas and conviction that it comes off as admirable camp instead a long list of eye-rolling clichés.

LOL, there's more, but you get the idea.

[KaiserStratosTygo]

And you're the one always saying I was mad, Stratos.

Not in those exact words

[ragnarok]

Not in those exact words

Well, the spirit was there in some ways. Still, be interesting to see if you can pull it off

[KaiserStratosTygo]

Well, the spirit was there in some ways. Still, be interesting to see if you can pull it off

Aye, it would.

[ragnarok]

Aye, it would.

We'll be waiting for future news of that

[Nissa]

Man, Econ, if someone reversed all those quotes, they'd be telling the truth. Maybe that was the plan all along -- they're under Blizzard's pay, but to sate their consciences they're saying the direct opposite of the truth, so everyone gets the real idea.