The Xel'naga Temple of Shakuras

[Visions of Khas]

So did we ever find out the true purpose and function of the Temple? Is it simply the Keystone on a larger scale? And does it not seem strange that it utilizes Khala energies when the Khala is uniquely of Protoss origin? Or is there some other facet to High Templar power we are missing?

I have been thinking about a theory proposed by Gradius long ago. He suggested the psi matrix was electromagnetic energy from Aiur's sun captured by Aiur's geomagnetic field. I suppose you could call it Solar energy, in contrast to the Void.

With the loss of the Khala I thought we saw the end to Twilight powers, but in this light that may not be the case. Were the High Templar somehow utilizing this solar energy in LotV, or were they simply using the Void?

[ragnarok]

The Keystone is like a map to guide you to Ulnar. The Xel'Naga temple on Shakuras was not. However it's not known if the regular Xel'Naga built it, or if Amon's people did. Given that it uses Khala energies, it could be because (if Amon's people did build it) that Amon's people used what they learned from the Khala and used this as some sort of power source on the temple.

[Turalyon]

@VoK

Seems like this boils down to another question about what the nature of the Khala is, what the word "Kalaha specifically refers to and how it can be invariably used in different context.

I think your confusion about the temple using "Khala" specific energy when the Khala was effectively gone, is that the word "Khala" is used synonymously and interchangeably to describe the communal link and all the psionic powers that non-Nerazim Protoss employ (amongst other things like it being a form of mental discipline, a religion, a higher plane etc). Obviously, there must be delineation between the two because otherwise the generic Protoss would have neither of these if use the term "Khala" in it's all-encompassing definition. Makes one wonder what the power/source the Tal'darim draw from since they do not use the Khala or the Void and yet they have psionic powers.

The solar energy theory is probably your best bet though since the Protoss apparently are solar-powered/eat light/perform photosynthesis. This would explain the Tal'Darim's powers and how High Templars devoid of the "Khala" are still able to use powers of any kind.

[ragnarok]

The solar energy theory is probably your best bet though since the Protoss apparently are solar-powered/eat light/perform photosynthesis. This would explain the Tal'Darim's powers and how High Templars devoid of the "Khala" are still able to use powers of any kind.

You don't need to use the solar energy theory. The void alone can do that. Remember, it was after learning about the void that the Dark Templar learned how to control the psionic storms. Was a lot harder and took longer compared to the Khala, but it worked.

This held true for a few psionic powers that the Khalai have that are only supposed to be possible via the Khala.

[Nissa]

I've always admired people who can talk pseudo-science about questional concepts in fiction as though these concepts were anything more than poor writing. Forgive a nerd for being blunt, but poor writing is all it is.

The writers of SC1 wisely kept the Khala ambiguous, so that they could tell a story while keeping their options open. So the Khala was more or less a religious/political thing, with some personal discipline involved (ie it was a lack of discipline that led to the original DTs sending storms all over Aiur). Unfortunately, if they were going to give the Protoss any depth, they were going to have to define the Khala a little better. They chose to turn the Khala into a simple link, making it pretty much impossible for players to know the difference between the Khala and ordinary telepathy. They also removed all religious/political elements of it, destroying its plot potential. Finally, making the Khala a purely evil thing that had to be abandoned removes a huge layer of depth and conflict in the Protoss story.

Huh. If Amon was using the Khala to control Protoss, why did he bother with the Tal'darim? Would've been much simpler to just mind control some Aiur 'Toss.

What it amounts to is that Blizzard decided DT philosophy would get a bit of depth, and screw the Khala, because it's not edgy and cool like Dark Templar. Darkness and shadows are all the rage, yo!

[Turalyon]

I've always admired people who can talk pseudo-science about questional concepts in fiction as though these concepts were anything more than poor writing. Forgive a nerd for being blunt, but poor writing is all it is.

I've always admired people who are fans of certain piece of fiction that condescend another fans engagement of a particular aspect from that same piece of fiction. :p

Yeah, they turned the Khala into yet another plot device, but hey, someone's gotta put some order to the chaos.

[ragnarok]

Huh. If Amon was using the Khala to control Protoss, why did he bother with the Tal'darim? Would've been much simpler to just mind control some Aiur 'Toss.

What it amounts to is that Blizzard decided DT philosophy would get a bit of depth, and screw the Khala, because it's not edgy and cool like Dark Templar. Darkness and shadows are all the rage, yo!

It's possible that the Khala to control the Protoss wasn't there yet.

The ORIGINAL Khala was merely meant as a means of communication to the Protoss. Only when the NEW Khala came (via Khas) could Amon control them. Likely, by the time of his death, and his conscious returning to the Void, Khas hadn't discovered the Khala via touching the Khaydarin Crystal in the Aiur Caverns yet.

[Visions of Khas]

So this is my theory. For a psychic race, the existence of the communal link -- and the Khala, the mental disciplines used to master it -- was a natural and inevitable development. This was part of the natural infant stages of a Xelnaga seed race. In his haste, Amon pushed the protoss too far technologically and psychologically, leading to their corruption and the conscious loss of the communal link. Khas was simply righting the boat, though with the unexpected result of dogma and racism. It was this cultural revolution that saw Void energies excised from their psychic repertoire, and Solar energy's newfound primacy. THIS division was Amon's true legacy; the Protoss were always meant to be Twilight Templar.

The Temple of Shakuras was likely constructed by the greater whole of the Xelnaga.

Amon still needed servants, and so he absconded with a number of protoss during the Aeon of Strife. These Taldarim are the protoss' thematic equivalent to the Primal Zerg; they have the potential for Twilight Templar.

[Nissa]

I've always admired people who are fans of certain piece of fiction that condescend another fans engagement of a particular aspect from that same piece of fiction. :p

Tura! You're sensitive today, aren't you? I'm not condescending. I truly admire someone who can get all nitpicky and try to fix a major plot flaw; that's creativity right there, but I can't muster up the enthusiasm when the writing behind it was so poorly thought out.

Does someone need a hug?

[Turalyon]

Tura! You're sensitive today, aren't you? I'm not condescending. I truly admire someone who can get all nitpicky and try to fix a major plot flaw; that's creativity right there, but I can't muster up the enthusiasm when the writing behind it was so poorly thought out.

Does someone need a hug?

Oh, I thought you were baiting with that comment, so I obliged by engaging in some snark-to-snark combat.

[ragnarok]

So this is my theory. For a psychic race, the existence of the communal link -- and the Khala, the mental disciplines used to master it -- was a natural and inevitable development. This was part of the natural infant stages of a Xelnaga seed race. In his haste, Amon pushed the protoss too far technologically and psychologically, leading to their corruption and the conscious loss of the communal link. Khas was simply righting the boat, though with the unexpected result of dogma and racism. It was this cultural revolution that saw Void energies excised from their psychic repertoire, and Solar energy's newfound primacy. THIS division was Amon's true legacy; the Protoss were always meant to be Twilight Templar.

The Temple of Shakuras was likely constructed by the greater whole of the Xelnaga.

Amon still needed servants, and so he absconded with a number of protoss during the Aeon of Strife. These Taldarim are the protoss' thematic equivalent to the Primal Zerg; they have the potential for Twilight Templar.

This would be contradictory to the LotV lore. It seems to me the Xel'Naga just seed a world and then let it develop on its own. If that's true, then virtually EVERY Xel'Naga temple of every kind was built by Amon's followers.

[Visions of Khas]

In that light, then it seems the sole existence of the Xelnaga is to simply seed life, then sleep. Which I find hard to believe; they have to do SOMETHING with their time.

[Gradius]

I'm inclined to agree with Ragnarok, but the energy creatures from the novels are seemingly benevolent, so I thought those temples had to be created by the normal Xel'Naga.


The energy creature hatches from "wild" xel'naga temples.[2] It is huge and squid-like[1] and glows white.[2] Its internal energy form is barely contained within a luminous organic skin. It has giant feathery wings, grasping tentacles,[1] and enormous glowing eyes which shine incredibly brightly.[2]

And actually, given how they collect DNA, and are described with the physical features of Xel'Naga, I have a theory that Blizzard at one point had an alternate Xel'Naga storyline where these phoenix creatures were actually Xel'Naga themselves being reborn and/or awakening from sleep. It doesn't make any sense for one to have led Zeratul to Ulaan at the end of the DT saga. That entire plotline is just one massive loose end.

[Visions of Khas]

So it seems you guys are taking the "non interference" line very literally. In this case, the Xel'Naga are the most boring race ever.

[Turalyon]

So it seems you guys are taking the "non interference" line very literally. In this case, the Xel'Naga are the most boring race ever.

Well, they were originally billed as scientists and noone's more boring than a scientist. :p

Besides, we already know the Xel'Naga are boring because we have Amon, a deviant Xel'Naga, who would arguably be the most interesting of the bunch cos he's evil and yet he still comes across as a major bore.

[Nissa]

I wish they'd gone with more a plain scientist thing. Like, the Xel'Naga are the ultimate nerds, so they play around with entire races, not because of some great cycle or might purpose, but because they're bored. That to me ties them in perfectly with the rest of the SC cast, in how SC is a contest of wills.

[ragnarok]

I wish they'd gone with more a plain scientist thing. Like, the Xel'Naga are the ultimate nerds, so they play around with entire races, not because of some great cycle or might purpose, but because they're bored. That to me ties them in perfectly with the rest of the SC cast, in how SC is a contest of wills.

It was merely about a cycle to sustain their own existence. SC2 tried too hard to make it seem like they're supposed to be the Guardians of the universe or something, and failed

[Visions of Khas]

They were definitely trying to channel Halo's Forerunners pretty damn hard.

[Gradius]

So it seems you guys are taking the "non interference" line very literally. In this case, the Xel'Naga are the most boring race ever.
I take it back. Or at least my definition of interference. They left the keystone fragments, khaydarin crystals and other stuff laying around. That's interference. They seeded the galaxy with life. That's interference too.

[ragnarok]

I take it back. Or at least my definition of interference. They left the keystone fragments, khaydarin crystals and other stuff laying around. That's interference. They seeded the galaxy with life. That's interference too.

That's why the Xel'Naga plothole has some reason to it. It's not DIRECT interference, it's an indirect way, if the species is smart enough to understand that

[Nissa]

It was merely about a cycle to sustain their own existence. SC2 tried too hard to make it seem like they're supposed to be the Guardians of the universe or something, and failed

The cycle itself is an SC2 era retcon. Totally not in the manual.

[Visions of Khas]

The cycle itself is an SC2 era retcon. Totally not in the manual.


Well some retcons are going to be inevitable. The original story was written in 1997. Their life cycle doesn't contradict what was stated in the manual. Moreover, it seems people want every little bit written out well in advance of the story. You're always going to have new story and plot elements introduced, otherwise you'll have stagnation. I'm not saying the plot so far has been great, but it seems like a lot of people have resistance to anything new being introduced.

[Gradius]

Well some retcons are going to be inevitable. The original story was written in 1997. Their life cycle doesn't contradict what was stated in the manual. Moreover, it seems people want every little bit written out well in advance of the story. You're always going to have new story and plot elements introduced, otherwise you'll have stagnation. I'm not saying the plot so far has been great, but it seems like a lot of people have resistance to anything new being introduced.
I don't care if it was written 100 years ago, the time the story was written should have nothing to do with the quality of the sequel. If the writers think it's too old to make a sequel that flows naturally and want to tell some other story instead, they should start a new franchise/story to begin with instead of touching one they have no interest in actually continuing.

[FanaticTemplar]

Well some retcons are going to be inevitable. The original story was written in 1997. Their life cycle doesn't contradict what was stated in the manual. Moreover, it seems people want every little bit written out well in advance of the story. You're always going to have new story and plot elements introduced, otherwise you'll have stagnation. I'm not saying the plot so far has been great, but it seems like a lot of people have resistance to anything new being introduced.

I don't want everything to be written out in advance, I want them to focus on what happens next, rather than what happened before. The UED, the Xel'naga, the Primal Zerg, they're all the same, it's someone looking into the backstory and asking "but what if these guys were actually still relevant?"

It's like if modern politics were shaped more from the likelihood that the Roman Empire or the Golden Horde or whoever never really collapsed but were hiding somewhere (Hollow Earth, Atlantis, whatever) and were about to reform their glorious empires, rather than, you know, recent stuff.

It's something Blizzard does all the time. It's like they think that any threat that arises because of the previous game won't be credible enough, they want whatever threat they invent to have been the cause of the previous games.

Turalyon once suggested the idea that feral Zerg, without an overriding mind, could naturally adapt to this circumstance and evolve into something like the Primal Zerg. That would have been way more interesting to me, because it would have illustrated some of the consequences of the death of the Overmind. It says "this event you remember was even more important than anyone could have predicted, because of these unforeseen consequences" instead of "everything you know was but a minor part in this thing that is actually the important part". But no, the Primals had to be the original Zerg.

Same thing with the Tal'darim. If they'd been Daelaam rebels, either Nerazim like Ulrezaj, or zealous Khalai who couldn't accept living with - even being indebted to - the Dark Templar and set out on their own, then they would have been more interesting, showing the divide between these Protoss factions, and the resistance to change, and being an active part of the Protoss history, instead of "well, they were there all along but we never really paid attention to them. And the Conclave sure never cared about these heretic Protoss, 'cause that's in character for them".

[Nissa]

Ugh, and not to mention all the Judicator bashing. It's one thing to make Aldaris a character hard to like, but to condemn an entire caste as hateful ignorants? People are more complex than that. Moreover, culture being what it is, much of the population, including Templar and Khalai, would have reacted negatively to the DT as well, with a variety of reactions from hate to mild distrust.

That's just one way that Blizz has simplified the plot. Raynor and Kerrigan's complex, somewhat undefined relationship became romance novel fare. Mengsk went from a deluded mastermind with a great vocabulary to a bad guy cliche. SC1 wasn't perfect, but it had complexity, as well as allowing natural gaps to be filled by player imaginations -- thus making it feel even more complex than it really is.

I know inconsistencies happen, but inconsistencies are different from retcons. It's one thing to make a mistake, and quite another to rob your own story of its potential.

[Turalyon]

Well some retcons are going to be inevitable. The original story was written in 1997. Their life cycle doesn't contradict what was stated in the manual. Moreover, it seems people want every little bit written out well in advance of the story. You're always going to have new story and plot elements introduced, otherwise you'll have stagnation. I'm not saying the plot so far has been great, but it seems like a lot of people have resistance to anything new being introduced.

A retcon is not about consistency, they're about continuity (that's what the "con" in retcon stands for) and they are both mutually exclusive. Either way, the problem is not that there are retcons but why and how they are used. It's kinda pointless for us to know that a Xel'Naga cycles exists at all because the Xel'Naga themselves don't exist in the modern era nor have any influence... unless we retcon the fact that they do (or at least one of them) still exist in the modern era somehow and hey presto, a Xel'Naga cycle exists now and is seemingly important. See the problem there?

Although it's "new", it's not really "new" because it's derivative of something that came before. It often feels regressive since it cloisters the fictional universe to those true fans (new people just won't get it or care for what is supposed to be ancient and forgotten history) and does more to stagnate the franchise than anything else. Like FT said, new stuff can only occur if there's a sense of progression - moving to new and uncertain things with a respect for what came before, a flow or continuity if you will.

[ragnarok]

A retcon is not about consistency, they're about continuity (that's what the "con" in retcon stands for) and they are both mutually exclusive. Either way, the problem is not that there are retcons but why and how they are used. It's kinda pointless for us to know that a Xel'Naga cycles exists at all because the Xel'Naga themselves don't exist in the modern era nor have any influence... unless we retcon the fact that they do (or at least one of them) still exist in the modern era somehow and hey presto, a Xel'Naga cycle exists now and is seemingly important. See the problem there?

Although it's "new", it's not really "new" because it's derivative of something that came before. It often feels regressive since it cloisters the fictional universe to those true fans (new people just won't get it or care for what is supposed to be ancient and forgotten history) and does more to stagnate the franchise than anything else. Like FT said, new stuff can only occur if there's a sense of progression - moving to new and uncertain things with a respect for what came before, a flow or continuity if you will.

A retcon is somewhat like consistency and contradiction at the same time. This happens constantly if you choose to leave things vague, which we saw happened back in SC1 and BW. This is exactly the reason why the community could come up with so many theories on what'll happen next after BW, the whole hybrid matter, the UED's next step, etc. All these theories are considered acceptable because Blizzard never really explained it in any way, and therefore you can have multiple interpretations of it all. Problem is, in SC2 the new story team chose the worst possible explanation, one that most of the community dismissed as utterly ridiculous and would imply contradiction to the SC1 lore.

[KaiserStratosTygo]

Well some retcons are going to be inevitable. The original story was written in 1997. Their life cycle doesn't contradict what was stated in the manual. Moreover, it seems people want every little bit written out well in advance of the story. You're always going to have new story and plot elements introduced, otherwise you'll have stagnation. I'm not saying the plot so far has been great, but it seems like a lot of people have resistance to anything new being introduced.

Having new stuff is fine.

contradicting old stuff is not.

might as well make a new series altogether.

[ragnarok]

Having new stuff is fine.

contradicting old stuff is not.

might as well make a new series altogether.

That's what quite a few people have said for SC2. Now, if SC2 really was a completely new series and separate from SC1, THEN the story would be just fine the way it is.

[UrunOfTheAuriga]

and screw the Khala, because it's not edgy and cool like Dark Templar. Darkness and shadows are all the rage, yo!
That's exactly the impression I get. Blizzard really tried to invest to "MUH VOID, MUH DURK AND EDGIE TEMPLURS!!" essentially trashing all the sophisticated background they built on the game Manual.

[UrunOfTheAuriga]

IMO retcons should be used to fix inconsistencies or when really needed to prevent stagnation, not as the creator's excuse for lazyness and inability to follow up the built up of your own lore and certainly not as money grabbing plots to hook up more 12 years to the franchise.

[Visions of Khas]

and screw the Khala, because it's not edgy and cool like Dark Templar. Darkness and shadows are all the rage, yo!



That's exactly the impression I get. Blizzard really tried to invest to "MUH VOID, MUH DURK AND EDGIE TEMPLURS!!" essentially trashing all the sophisticated background they built on the game Manual.


I never perceived the Khala as being an evil tool implanted by Amon. It's something that developed naturally into a formidable psionic race; it did not enslave the Protoss as the Hive Mind did the Zerg. The Khala is based on the Communal Link, which exists at a subconscious level -- until the Khala's mental disciplines elevate it to a conscious state. This is what allowed Amon control of the Templar. The Khala was their greatest strength; you clearly see the unity and clarity with which the Templar fight in the opening cinematic. Without the Khala, their unified battle prowess suffers. It was a huge blow to the Templar war machine.

The Dark Templar make sparing use of the Void, knowing its perils. (I'm unclear as to whether these perils originate from Amon himself, or are natural to the Void itself.) The Tal'Darim, however, open themselves up fully to the Void, granting them unparalleled power but at the cost of their lifespan.

[ragnarok]

I never perceived the Khala as being an evil tool implanted by Amon. It's something that developed naturally into a formidable psionic race; it did not enslave the Protoss as the Hive Mind did the Zerg. The Khala is based on the Communal Link, which exists at a subconscious level -- until the Khala's mental disciplines elevate it to a conscious state. This is what allowed Amon control of the Templar. The Khala was their greatest strength; you clearly see the unity and clarity with which the Templar fight in the opening cinematic. Without the Khala, their unified battle prowess suffers. It was a huge blow to the Templar war machine.



And that's why the Khala was so vital. It never occurred to the Khalai people that they were taking the easy way out, that they couldn't rely on the Khala indefinitely. It's not like they've never been cut off from the Khala before, as shown when Sundrop was used in the DT Saga. It's just that they never suspected it could be turned on them.

As for the DT, the perils shouldn't come from Amon himself, since he was not the FIRST Xel'Naga. He too had ascended, and since the Xel'Naga are born in the void, he could not have twisted the WHOLE of the void to do his bidding