Are Protoss Clones?

[Visions of Khas]

Seriously.

I think it's more than a matter of time and assets; Blizzard went out of their way to differentiate even minor, unnamed Terran characters in Wings of Liberty. The same cannot be said for the Protoss.



Thematic Hints in HotS

This idea was first seeded in my mind in an indirect, nebulous way by Heart of the Swarm. HotS focuses on genetic diversity and speciation. Even individual Zerg from the same breed -- any two hydralisks, say -- possess numerous genetic differences, the result of a molecular arms race between prolific A-type cells, and the phagocytotic B-type cells (http://starcraft.wikia.com/wiki/Zerg#Physiology). Presumably, A-type cells evolve ways in which to resist or elude predation by B-type cells, and B-types adapt themselves accordingly, in an ongoing Red Queen (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Queen_hypothesis) evolution.


http://i.imgur.com/NCKaIpS.jpg

Things are further complicated to Zerg's highly receptive cellular structure, assimilating foreign genetic material over successive generations by means of horizontal gene transfer (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horizontal_gene_transfer). We may also assume the chimeric A-Type-vs-B-Type evolution is further complicated by this foreign genetic material.


Thematically, Legacy of the Void -- and the Protoss -- should be the exact opposite. The Zerg are biologically diverse in the extreme, though they are unified in mind. The Protoss, then, should be homogeneous in form, but diverse in spirit and mind.

Reinforcement in LotV

Legacy of the Void took this half-thought and firmly grounded it. In the LotV trailer, we see Artanis addressing legions of Zealots before the invasion of Aiur. The exact same Zealot model is used over and over and over; aside from customized armor, there is no shred of individuality to be seen.


http://i.imgur.com/7Lor63X.jpg

Even the latest cinematic trailer does little to upend this idea. Of the three Zealots, One-Eye (Teredar?) and Standard Zealot have the exact same facial features. When the cavalry arrives, there is even more of the same. Even the High Templar are identical, though they differ from the Zealots. We can comment little on Helmet Zealot in this respect, but he does play a role...


... On what little diversity we see.

What little diversity we see may have a limited scope of origins and causes. First is age: young protoss have little facial definition; their scales and scutes develop as they age. (Presumably, females of the species, like in humans, are Paedomorphic (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoteny)-- they retain features of youth as they age -- so their development of scales is limited.) Next is tribal affiliation. Assuming the Helmet Zealot from the cinematic trailer hails from the same tribe as the others, then all three Zealots were from the Akilae tribe. This, by corollary, would mean every Zealot we've seen to date is likewise from the Akilae Tribe. Thirdly, we have the racial disparities between Khalai and Nerazim. Fourth, it's possible that lineage plays a strong role in one's station in life. Say your parents were Zealots? Then -- perhaps by some quirk of genetic-memory and/or Khala-based feedback, or cultural pressure -- you too will pursue that lifestyle.


http://i.imgur.com/nLTLAQU.jpg

Cultivars - The Plant Connection

Now clearly we have male and female Protoss, indicating sexual reproduction and genetic recombination. If, however, you're part of a species deemed physically perfect, then the only direction evolution can take you is "down"; any divergence would necessarily be harmful to you and your species. Clearly, perfection is impossible, as admitted by Abathur -- it is an elusive target, but the hunt is its own reward. So we most likely have a component outside genetic transcription at work, something metaphysical or psionic. Indeed, neither Khalai or Nerazim can be assimilated because of the Khala and Void, respectively. Somehow, some genetic/memetic information is being retained within an energy field, perhaps a morphic field (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rupert_Sheldrake#Morphic_resonance). But we have another thing of interest: Protoss' plant-like origins. Cultivars are any variety of plant collected and cultivated for certain qualities. Plant breeders will select for these qualities again and again, sometimes going so far as cloning the plants (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultivar#Clones) -- often by means of cuttings, grafts or budding.


http://i.imgur.com/Kx9d6hx.jpg

My Conclusion

If the Xel'Naga found physical perfection in the Protoss, they would want it to be retained indefinitely. They would put in place a mechanism that makes any deviation or tampering near-impossible. This would necessarily be something metaphysical in nature -- in this case, a psionic field, with the Khala (artificial) or Void (natural) serving as the medium. Then what, then, could the use of males and females be? Certainly more than an atavistic holdover. While their genetics are irrelevent, as their offspring will be an effective clone, the individuality and spirit must be nurtured. Thus, the male and female impart their psychic essence -- their memories, personalities, qualia, etc -- into the next generation, distilling their own personal histories into a new individual...

Effective immortality.



http://i.imgur.com/CdGdgIE.jpg



In this light, the means of reproduction are almost irrelevant. The result itself would be the impressive thing.

[DemolitionSquid]

The cinematics' Protoss all look the same because they're expendable combatants and there's no need to differentiate the faces of characters in a mob who are on screen for a few seconds. Its just simple efficiency to "clone" the CGI models for the fast-paced action trailer. All named, plot-relevant Protoss we've met look different.

You also need to consider our limited human perspective. How many times have you heard someone say things like "all Asians look alike?" Different cultures and species focus on different features to distinguish each other. Can you always tell one monkey from another at the zoo just by a quick glance? Of course not. Assuming all Protoss are clones simply because you cannot tell apart the minute physical differences between them in the span of a few seconds is true ignorance.

[Robear]

^ I agree with the second line, there's definitely the possibility that Protoss individuals exhibit differences that are obvious to them and not to humans. But, I don't agree with the copy/paste cinematic line.

In every cinematic even going back to the original SC, Blizzard has always featured unique human marine faces, even for characters with no lines. Remember these guys, (http://imgur.com/a/6DPHK) or the 6 different guys on the dropship (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGoUsd-RHqU#t=1m41s) in Ghost's cinematic, plus the two non-visored marines on the ground? I don't think faces are something that Blizzard skimps on.

Another thing is that since those Protoss faces don't even have noses or mouths or lips, it's not like there's much rigging and animation that goes into making a slightly different head. It would be really trivially easy to just bulk out some proportions and add on a slightly different scale pattern and change the eye color slightly.

And Blizzard also likes making unique decals and things for its marines' armor that appear up close in cinematics. Obviously doesn't make sense for the zealots while they're emphasizing how linked everyone is, but (aside from the gold faceplate guy) I'll try to see if I can catch some examples of the armor not being exactly copy/pasted.


Will think more about the cloning thing, or if it's just supposed to be extreme homogeneity within tribes.

Karax's gross beard thing weirds me out.

[The_Blade]

Conceptually, Terrans have more reasons to be identified as individuals (militia groups, personality, tatoos, etc); but that is not the only reason they are made different. Human faces are a great way to pay homage to employees. There is also a political/social agenda over the design of human characters.

I would say the Protoss' armor copy might be due to it being a "perfect" weapon. You just don't add flaps of fancy metal designs to a F-16. We've seen Dark Templars customize their armor and weapons. However, Khalai Protoss might need less physical differentiation because of their networked feelings and thoughts. There are still exceptions. Mr. One Eye decided to keep his ripped head piece as a token of losing an eye.

In the cut scene there are at least 3 gold faces, 2 different headsets, but no clear facial differences between the Zealots.

[Turalyon]

Have to second (or third?) the notion that we can't assume they're clones just because they look the same (subjectively, mind you). Even if we can, I'd readily believe the notion that all members of a certain Zerg strain were clones more than contemplating the idea that all Protoss are clones.

That the Protoss would reproduce sexually just to make exact physical clones is rather odd, since it'd be far more efficient to reproduce asexually to just create a clone. Now, I'm no biologist (I'm an ignoramus in this regard - so sorry if the following sounds like conjecture), but I've always thought that the product of sexual reproduction is not supposed to be a clone of either parent (if it were, which one would it be? Why would the other parent invest themselves at all if the clone could turn out to be of their partner rather than them? Then again, this could explain their low numbers). Not only that, sexual reproduction would also invite the possibility of mutation (not necessarily in a negative way) which would go against their supposed static and "perfect" physical forms. Besides, clones are usually weaker than their originators since they'd be using "older" cells. Unless the Protoss are somehow immune to the equivalent of telomere shortening, having the Protoss all be clones wouldn't have made them viable as a species for this long since the latest generations would be dying of old age (which we know the Protoss do exhibit) once they're born.

[Nissa]

Wow, Khas. That's a nice, long explanation to cover up the (probable) truth: Blizzard is lazy.

Lol. In any case, hearken back to SC/BW days. The diversity there was excellent, and no two Protoss looked alike. They put in the effort to create individuals in both main characters and units. I miss that. However, given the state of Blizzard these days, I'm all too willing to believe that Khas is onto something -- that Blizzard somehow has a plot reason for all 'Toss looking alike.

[Jconant]

Large complex organisms reproduce sexually to fight off parasites and disease; even plants [though seemingly look the same most of the time to us] have diverse dna relative to the grand gene pool of life. So protoss can easily be diverse though now really have different facial features or body type builds.

[Gradius]

So the modeling team didn't feel like doing a unique face for each warrior.

[Visions of Khas]

Sooo any comments on any of my points other than identical facial features? :p


I would say the Protoss' armor copy might be due to it being a "perfect" weapon. You just don't add flaps of fancy metal designs to a F-16.
That's not a matter of contention. I'm perfectly accepting of the armor worn by the Protoss. But it's interesting how even the armor is customized -- a couple 'Toss are even wearing bling.


Have to second (or third?) the notion that we can't assume they're clones just because they look the same (subjectively, mind you). Even if we can, I'd readily believe the notion that all members of a certain Zerg strain were clones more than contemplating the idea that all Protoss are clones.
I can see your reasoning. But we have explicit knowledge of Zerg biology, which promotes heavy mutations within the breeds.


I've always thought that the product of sexual reproduction is not supposed to be a clone of either parent
No, you're totally correct. As mentioned by Jconant, sexual reproduction offers many advantages, including the aforementioned Red Queen arms race against predation by parasites and disease.

My point against traditional sexual reproduction among Protoss is, again, because of their supposed "Perfection of Form." Sexual reproduction is one avenue by which mutation and evolution manifest. When you're genetically "at the top", the only direction left is "down." Hence, my reasoning. It may be that these cellular mutations and deviations are "corrected" by the "morphic fields" of the Khala or Void, as I assume it plays a huge role in Protoss existence.






Robear:



http://i.imgur.com/SkXmYGD.jpg

[The_Blade]

I have to agree that the Xel'naga had to use cloning or some other gene manipulation method to "perfect" both Protoss and Zerg in their own way.

IMO "Purity of Form" is not a perfect physical being, but one that has evolved as far as to tap back into the cosmic energies. As well, I don't think the Xel'naga reached their desired goal (nor did they did with the Zerg). Therefore the Protoss are not pure in form on their natural state. Khas is the only one who willingly reached this goal, while other Protoss met a similar fate only after they attempted to use absurd amounts of power. If the spirit of Tassadar is really trapped within the psionic singularity on Aiur, then Adun and other Protoss Archons might also linger within the psionic fields they created. This in a way is Purity of Form. No body to return to, but existing alone with the capacity to linger and modify space.

So no, I don't believe they are biologically perfect. Perfection in evolution is just like Abathur said, "a changing goal". So, I doubt they retain the same biological standard to perfect their race. Their similarities may be more likely due to the few generations that have passed since the Xel'naga's intervention. Be it a consequence of cloning. AND, I do believe that they may suffer physical changes related to their Khala or Void affinities and life experiences. For instance, Zealots might look similar when training together due to their Psionic link.

[Turalyon]

I can see your reasoning. But we have explicit knowledge of Zerg biology, which promotes heavy mutations within the breeds.

Yeah, but you were basing it on looks.... so, if a group of Protoss "looking the same" is used as evidence for them being clones, then why not a group of Zerglings being clones if all in that group look the same (because they do look the same too)? Sure, there's the tidbit about ongoing mutation with the Zerg but are all Zerglings in a group (for example) at any given time undergoing some form of mutation (including when they being created) thereby disqualifying them as being clones? Who can really tell when they still look exactly the same and that looking exactly the same is your only metric for determining that Protoss are indeed clones?


My point against traditional sexual reproduction among Protoss is, again, because of their supposed "Perfection of Form." Sexual reproduction is one avenue by which mutation and evolution manifest. When you're genetically "at the top", the only direction left is "down." Hence, my reasoning. It may be that these cellular mutations and deviations are "corrected" by the "morphic fields" of the Khala or Void, as I assume it plays a huge role in Protoss existence.

You'd think such a thing would cause their species to evolve away form sexual reproduction as the means for procreation since that'd be more efficient and easier in maintaining their "purity of form" rather than evolve some complicated and esoteric psionic network thing to do the same job. The psionic morphic fields seems too much like a convenient out though - sounds like "magic" when used in this particular context, to me.

Also, if it (sexual reproduction/ differentiation of sexes) affected the Xel'Naga's percept of "Purity of Form", the least they could've done is engineered it out of the Protoss because that would easily ruin their plans of procreation (oh wait, the Xel'Naga are supposed to suck at procreating, right? :p). It's weird either way.

[Visions of Khas]

IMO "Purity of Form" is not a perfect physical being, but one that has evolved as far as to tap back into the cosmic energies.
So you'd go so far as to say that their potential for "Purity of Form" may be synonymous with "Freedom From Form"; ie they are not bound by typical physical laws when assuming the Archon form?


As well, I don't think the Xel'naga reached their desired goal
The manual states the Xel'Naga (/Ihan Ri?) did achieve perfection of Form before they left Aiur. At what point, in your opinion, did the Protoss make a step backward?


So no, I don't believe they are biologically perfect. Perfection in evolution is just like Abathur said, "a changing goal"
I agree, and this was one of my points. They need some sort of energy-based medium or substrate to house a component of themselves, ie the Void and Khala. Perhaps their DNA isn't composed entirely of T, C, G and A, but also other exotic nucelotides, or nucelotide-analogs that are actually formed of energy. Severing a Protoss from their energy matrix cuts off these components of the DNA, rendering it incomplete and necessarily opposed to assimilation.


For instance, Zealots might look similar when training together due to their Psionic link.
How do you mean?


Sure, there's the tidbit about ongoing mutation with the Zerg but are all Zerglings in a group (for example) at any given time undergoing some form of mutation (including when they being created) thereby disqualifying them as being clones?
I guess you're right. Just because you may experience mutation doesn't mean you didn't originate as a clone.


The psionic morphic fields seems too much like a convenient out though - sounds like "magic" when used in this particular context, to me.
Welcome to Blizzard Writing 101!


oh wait, the Xel'Naga are supposed to suck at procreating, right?
Yeah... yeeeah, that is weird.

[The_Blade]

So you'd go so far as to say that their potential for "Purity of Form" may be synonymous with "Freedom From Form"; ie they are not bound by typical physical laws when assuming the Archon form?

Yes, but not through the Archon form. The Archon form is an expression of the Protoss potential, but it still depends on a single resource: energy. I did not mention Ulrezaj because he is still alive. However, dead Archons might have transitioned into the wake of the khala or void. Tradition points out that Khas became one with the Khala, but we've never seen him again. Instead we saw Tassadar, who might as well be in Zeratul's head. This is still a mystery. For all we know, this might not be Tassadar. If it's not Tassadar, then Amon's influence is not the only answer. Either Khas or Adun could play a role there.

This correlation with "Freedom of Form" follows other Xel'Naga experiments like the Energy Phoenix and the Voice in the Darkness. I believe the Xel'naga were desperate to find answers to their own transcendence. They left Aiur in a hurry to find this answer; and did not encase the Protoss in crystals as a failed experiment.


The manual states the Xel'Naga (/Ihan Ri?) did achieve perfection of Form before they left Aiur. At what point, in your opinion, did the Protoss make a step backward?

The Aeon of Strife. They grew suspicious of the Xel'naga and fell apart halfway through the process of building the Khala. The dead Protoss attached to Khaydarin crystals on the caverns in Aiur support these suspicions and the "evil" intentions of the Xel'naga. While no Protoss body survived the process, the Xel'naga could have defined that Purity of Form was achieved but the cost was too high when implemented artificially (so they chickened out themselves). These tribe members then thought Khas about the Khala and the psionic potential of the Protoss.


I agree, and this was one of my points. They need some sort of energy-based medium or substrate to house a component of themselves, ie the Void and Khala. Perhaps their DNA isn't composed entirely of T, C, G and A, but also other exotic nucelotides, or nucelotide-analogs that are actually formed of energy. Severing a Protoss from their energy matrix cuts off these components of the DNA, rendering it incomplete and necessarily opposed to assimilation.

I'm not comfortable theorycrafting the DNA level of Protoss biology nor morphic fields, because Protoss biology by itself is still conventional biology IMO. The energy environment and psionic organs create changes on the metabolic level. "Mind over body" is a much more simple solution which does not compromises the world building of biology in the StarCraft universe. Their immune system could be one of their strongest psionic processes.

I do agree however that death severs the psionic potential from the body, which has frustrated Abathur for a long time. This is however more linked to a central hub of thought, like Eiwa from Avatar; than to DNA levels. My best explanation would be that Protoss create tiny "Archons" on death. This small archon ruptures through their body and burns some important psionic organs. They can recover their body from this light transition into an Archon though. Evidence of these Archons are Zealot deaths.

Infestation is not impossible, but really hard when such behaviors kick in to prevent celular mutation or body functions.


How do you mean?

In the same way females share menstrual cycles. The thoughts of other Protoss and the relationship with them are strong enough to change one's body. It's a social thing.

[TheEconomist]

Racists are incapable of distinguishing differences in facial features outside of their race. You, sir, are a racist.

Prepare for a twitterstorm.

@SocialJusticeForAiur

[Visions of Khas]

#ZergLivesMatter!

[Gradius]

#VoteForDonaldTrump

[DemolitionSquid]

One cannot logically hate another for something said other has no control over. Ergo, racism and sexism are illogical. Be they Terran, Protoss, or Zerg; a sapient lifeform must be judged on whom they are, not what they are.

#FeelTheBern

[TheEconomist]

Should I bring up some economics again? Nah. Not worth.

[DemolitionSquid]

We'll definitely be feeling the burn if Bernie's $18 trillion plan goes through. Amazing people thing that the solution to historic, catastrophic levels of economy crippling debt is to double it.

So whom or what are you supporting? Trump with his racism wall? Carson and his anti-vaxxer pandering? Bush's hypocrisy on marajuana? Perhaps Huckabee's support of rapists?

[TheEconomist]

1) Not a Republican. How many times have I told you?

2) Neither of those (simplistic) descriptions are as dangerous as the largest expansion of government in American history from a starting point of the largest expansion of government in American history. I mean really, would you say Hitler may be overreaching but Hindenburg disapproves of subsidized child care? I'm sure you would. That's about on par with your knowledge of economics.

3) Voting is for the ignorant masses. You'll know what I believe when you see the flow of millions of self-made wealth being reallocated to mold the world into a reflection of me. *evil cackle* Serving wench, fetch my wine!

Now, where were we? Ohhhhh yes,

*steeples fingers*

I like how you counter a potentially nation destroying plan with "but, but, but he's look at those meanies over there!"

But your idiocy stopped being entertaining a long time ago. Off to step on some plebes' backs.

*quickly dismisses lesser being with a quick flick of the wrist as I spin around to behold my thousand screen empire control center*

[Visions of Khas]

... Are you two fucking serious right now?

[DemolitionSquid]

... Are you two fucking serious right now?

Never? Always?

Depends on how important you deem the future leadership of the most dangerous country on our poor planet.

[TheEconomist]

If there's one thing that was made clear in my post, it was that I never joke about money.

*swivels around again to pull the strings of senators and congressmen*

[DemolitionSquid]

I just have a hard time determining your moral alignment, Eco. Aren't you Lawful Evil? I'm confused why you're not voting GOP.

[TheEconomist]

So doesn't the different appearance of more important characters somewhat hinder the possibility that Protoss are clones, or are you implying a Storm Trooper type scenario?

[Visions of Khas]

doesn't the different appearance of more important characters somewhat hinder the possibility that Protoss are clones

Most every new major Protoss character hails from a separate tribe or nation, so I'd give 'em some leeway.

[TheEconomist]

So going for an inbred angle? Don't mind me. I'm too lazy to read.

[Nissa]

So Econ, how you feel about feudalism? Wanna buy a stretch of land out in the country and get us some serfs? Also, Demo, it's never a good way to convince people to take your side when your argument consists of a blanket statement calling all your opponents evil. That sort of thing only makes me disregard your opinions.

More on topic, Blade, I don't think Ulrezaj counts as alive, what with being trapped in a crystal and not having a physical form. Unless you're going on SC/BW canon, in which case, nevermind.

[DemolitionSquid]

So Econ, how you feel about feudalism? Wanna buy a stretch of land out in the country and get us some serfs? Also, Demo, it's never a good way to convince people to take your side when your argument consists of a blanket statement calling all your opponents evil. That sort of thing only makes me disregard your opinions.

You assume I care if either Eco or you takes my side. I'm just stating how I perceive the world, and that perception is that Eco is a psychopathic automaton, incapable of compassion, remorse, or selfless acts.

[The_Blade]

More on topic, Blade, I don't think Ulrezaj counts as alive, what with being trapped in a crystal and not having a physical form. Unless you're going on SC/BW canon, in which case, nevermind.

By the conventional meaning of biological life Ulrezaj is quite dead. However, there's an "afterlife" or a metaphysical condition of life that has existed since SC/BW within the Zerg which can be transferred into Protoss lore. For this reason, Ulrezaj is still alive in a similar fashion to the voice in the darkness and the energy phoenix. The condition exists, we just need to explain it through the simplest means possible.

Khaydarin crystals are like batteries for energy and they also behave like a dynamic material to house beings.

[Turalyon]

... Are you two fucking serious right now?

What do you expect? It's true love.

[Nissa]

By the conventional meaning of biological life Ulrezaj is quite dead. However, there's an "afterlife" or a metaphysical condition of life that has existed since SC/BW within the Zerg which can be transferred into Protoss lore. For this reason, Ulrezaj is still alive in a similar fashion to the voice in the darkness and the energy phoenix. The condition exists, we just need to explain it through the simplest means possible.

Khaydarin crystals are like batteries for energy and they also behave like a dynamic material to house beings.

Alright. Seems to me though that the khaydarins are sort of taking on too much in the SC2 canon. Not that their power wouldn't have to be defined at some point, but it seems excessive that they can hold entire beings inside them.

Oh, and Demo, my statement was merely to make a logic point. I know plenty of Republicans that aren't evil. You state that all Republicans are evil, thereby making a statement less about fact, and more about your own feelings. Thus, it is not merely I that would find your opinions useless, but anyone capable of basic logic. And people who aren't judgemental.

[DemolitionSquid]

At no point did I say all Republicans are evil. I merely said that evil people vote Republican.

Which was unfortunately a joke that flew over your head, as I have stated before good and evil do not exist. There is only power, how one wields it, and if that use affects those involved in a positive or negative way from their perspective.

[Visions of Khas]

What do you expect? It's true love.

I guess you're right. When do you think the babies are due? You think they'll get it vaxxed?

[DemolitionSquid]

I guess you're right. When do you think the babies are due? You think they'll get it vaxxed?

As Canadian citizens under my sole custody, yes. If Eco takes them from me, they'll just have to build up immunities working in his sweatshop.

[Nissa]

At no point did I say all Republicans are evil. I merely said that evil people vote Republican.

Which was unfortunately a joke that flew over your head, as I have stated before good and evil do not exist. There is only power, how one wields it, and if that use affects those involved in a positive or negative way from their perspective.

If good and evil don't exist, then they cannot be applied to any political party. Joke or otherwise, blanket statements are generally unwise. That, and good and evil do exist -- in every single person. Our positive and negative choices create good and evil around us, and no person is without evil. Including your precious Democrats.

...I should probably let the thread stay on topic now.

[Visions of Khas]

...I should probably let the thread stay on topic now.

Nope, it's dead. Thoroughly deceased, euthanized by means of Econo-Squid love-cuddling sexy time.

[DemolitionSquid]

If good and evil don't exist, then they cannot be applied to any political party. Joke or otherwise, blanket statements are generally unwise. That, and good and evil do exist -- in every single person. Our positive and negative choices create good and evil around us, and no person is without evil. Including your precious Democrats.

The natural world lacks good and evil. Life simply consumes and reproduces as best it can in a struggle for survival of the fittest. Good and evil are constructs of religious morality and are only ever applied to humanity. They are merely creations of the human mind, vague concepts in an attempt to quantify greed, and have no bearing on reality.


Nope, it's dead. Thoroughly deceased, euthanized by means of Econo-Squid love-cuddling sexy time.

The topic was DOA. While it is possible the Protoss do have some clones, such as those in stasis on the Spear Of Adun, there is no evidence the majority of the Protoss population are clones.

[TheEconomist]

Well, since even the TC is determined to derail the topic after I put it back on track. There is one thing I want to discuss.

It's been a long time since interactions with Squibb were entertaining or otherwise meaningful. His insults have gotten lazy and are obviously desperate distractions since they usually come after I give a correct, complex macroeconomic prediction years in advance.

I've already quite clearly established that Squibb isn't just wrong; he is the exact opposite of right. From predicting the imminent collapse of America just before it became the best performing stock market in the world, to predicting the dawn of European socialism dominance just before the entire eurozone went into a death spiral, to predicting that women would he harmed by a Republican Congress even though said Congress catapulted the U.S. through the ranks to even surpass Canada (even if by 0.0001 point). Since Canada is feeling catastrophic effects from only a minor correction in China, I think its safe to so that my predictions about Canada will also come true in the near future given that even prominent figures are saying the same thing. And, also, quite hilariously, the most recent failure, since I assume he labels Republicans evil because he believes they don't care bout the poor because they don't believe in massive government programs even though they have been proven to be the large donors to charities with money and their own personal time.

If Squibb were an econometric regression he would be as good of a predictor as any econometrician could ask for, just in the opposite way.

I've established that. It is undeniable. Let's move forward.

The only value Squibb has left is to offer a chance to learn about such mental dysfunction firsthand for people like me who will actually acquire wealth and power. So, Squibb, here's your chance to do some good for the world. If I am as evil and corrupt as you say, it is in your interest to help me to understand your thought process and people like you. Given the cognitive and predictive failures I have demonstrated that you have time and time again. Please, help me understand how you can such a strong opinion of yourself. Nevermind that your counters to my larger, conceptual problems are simple, emotional "but vaccinations!" type nonsense. Let's just say they were equal in importance and complexity. Help me to understand. How can you be so sure of yourself given how consistently wrong you are, without deviation? Where does your arrogance come from? How can you even spout your nonsense with such assuredness? I understand that you're an asshole. I understand that you're a troll. But the lack of self-awareness and shame you've demonstrated shows, to me, something even more dysfunctional, even dangerous.

Don't just make a joke or quick jab, Squibb. Give me an honest answer so that I can leave you alone for the good of this forum and maybe walk away with better understand that may allow me to understand and sympathize more with people like you. If I am able to do that, maybe your side can benefit from my abilities, wouldn't you rather that happen? Otherwise, I will be forced to assume that it's simple raw, illogical emotionality and ignorance cultivated and channeled by political manipulators much smarter than you. If you disagree with that, and want to se things straight, give me an honest answer. Help me understand.

I sincerely hope you give a true response, for the good of everyone involved.

[DemolitionSquid]

You are incapable of understanding, so I will not waste my time trying to explain any further.

Your driving desire for said "wealth and power" will be the doom of us all. I shall simply continue to enjoy myself, waiting until the inevitable day the world crumbles and all will wish they had heeded my warnings.

When the dust settles, only I will remain, to rebuild on your ashes as all your wealth and power evaporates, devoid of any value at all.

[TheEconomist]

I was quoting you when I said I strove for wealth and power. I actually strive for the thrill of competition and the satisfaction of overcoming adversity and almost nothing else. Wealth and power might as well just be points for all I care about them. That's why I give it away when someone needs it, even arch-enemies on the internet (spychi). How much have you given in charity this year? How much has the world benefited from your work this year?

But, yeah, just as I thought: basement dwelling delusions of grandeur stemming from an inferiority complex which you compensate for with unexamined egotistical nonsense. Basically, the only joy you seem to have in life is to ride the way of the chemical processes in your brain telling you your fucking awesome and everyone else is stupid. One step above Charles Manson. Get over being a bullied as a child and stop being so stuck in your own damn emotions. I gave you the chance to contribute something, and you can't even make an honest attempt.

But, still, the question remains:


waiting until the inevitable day the world crumbles and all will wish they had heeded my warnings.

Where does this come from? I can't think of a single thing you have been correct on. Where does this arrogance come from? I have been correct about everything, years in advance. It is illogical to deny that, if anyone here should be arrogant it is me. If anyone should be talking about rebuilding ashes and everyone wishing they listened to them, is definitely me.

Either way, everything you possess and everything you experience is the result of some one striving for, as you call it, "wealth and power". Basically, you admit that you're just living off the fruits of everyone else's labor. You're a parasite. Of no value. You contribute nothing. In fact, you're probably a net negative for the Canadian economy. The only justification for your existence is the feelings you have as previously mentioned chemicals flood into your brain, causing meaningless sensations. You are hopeless and lost. Taking your frustrations of your own failure out on balanced, productivity people like me and the God you assert doesn't even exist.Nothing more. You aren't even attempting to hide it anymore. Utlimately, we should all pity you. I've wasted my time trying to find anything of value in conversing with you.

[DemolitionSquid]

Everyone loves sharks.

"Be a shark,'" they say. Be ruthless, aggressive. Destroy all the other little fishes on your way to the top. Sharks are lauded, given their own week on Discovery channel. Sharks can do and say ridiculous things, insult all the other fish, and get away with it because they are perceived as powerful and scary.

I, for one, refuse to bow to the sharks. I fear no toothy grin. I instead stand firm in the mud with the leeches. The innumerable ones who have survived millennia longer, through greater hardships. Feeding off whatever scraps may come their way, siphoning off the blood of the sharks who refuse to share.

When the sharks are gone, and the oceans lay bare, boiled and toxic, from the deep shall the leeches rise, ever enduring, and start anew upon the rotting corpses of the bloated sharks who wrought their own demise.

[TheEconomist]

Squibb's not only wrong, but entirely irrelevant. He's lost it. Gone off the deep end. All that's left is to pity your sad existence and go on "stacking my millions". (Code for living an interesting, fulfilling life, not at all dependent on money making)

Squibb reminds me of feminists, social justice warriors, and other damaged individuals. Even when you think you're talking about something, you're really just talking about their childhood bullying, rape, or other such event they were never able to cope with. There's nothing that can be done to save them, just hope for better for the next generation and try to prevent their tainted ideologies from spreading and harming you individually.

Bring up compelx, macroeconomic predictions and principles? PATRIARCHY! RAPE APOLOGIST! BULLY! MEANIE-PANTS!

.. You people are hopeless and you deserve all of the inner torment you create for yourself.

[KaiserStratosTygo]

Squid confirmed for Zasz.

can I be Daggoth and make cool quotes?

"Without their master, econ and squid have run amok and even now threaten's the forums, Neutral parties, you must eradicate this rampaging two and stem any further damage they might cause, I shall deal with the politics, myself!"

also:

"Squibb reminds me of feminists, social justice warriors, and other damaged individuals. Even when you think you're talking about something, you're really just talking about their childhood bullying, rape, or other such event they were never able to cope with. There's nothing that can be done to save them, just hope for better for the next generation and try to prevent their tainted ideologies from spreading and harming you individually.
"

If he's an SJW, you're the equal opposite Stormfront troll with the absurd bullying tactics from the pagetopping post above.

You both are two sides of a coin that had been carelessly lost in the dumpster.

FILTHY POLITICAL SCUM!

BURN THE HERETICS, PURIFY THIS PLACE BY FIRE!

[TheEconomist]

You are new here. You don't know the context nor the proper way to interpret. Taking this exchange at face value just demonstrates that you shouldn't even be involved. When a small group of people post for years with thousands of posts, it's nearly impossible for the n00bs to understand the subtleties. All of what you said is wrong. You'll deny this, of course. You have a tendency of blindly walking into troll-traps on the Battle.net forums. Try harder here. Enough said. I'll leave it at that.

Oh yeah, and don't be a hypocrite. We've all seen you on the Battle.net forums.

[Visions of Khas]

Oooh, the jimmies have been rustled.

The reason I've never taken any of your exchanges seriously is because it's hilarious that two hubris-filled egos clash in (from your own perspectives) an unending titanic battle of intelligence and will. I'd love to have a political, philosophical or economic discussion with either of you (god knows I need to learn about all of the above!). But you two seem more intent on maintaining your own positions and defending them to the death, rather than actually learning from any kind of discourse. I also get fed up when you two seem more than happy to have this silly feud of yours spill across the rest of the forums -- like you think it's important enough to smother the rest of us in it.

Guys, chill out, and maintain a minimum 15-foot distance from each other. I think everyone here will appreciate it.

[DemolitionSquid]

Oooh, the jimmies have been rustled.

The reason I've never taken any of your exchanges seriously is because it's hilarious that two hubris-filled egos clash in (from your own perspectives) an unending titanic battle of intelligence and will. I'd love to have a political, philosophical or economic discussion with either of you (god knows I need to learn about all of the above!). But you two seem more intent on maintaining your own positions and defending them to the death, rather than actually learning from any kind of discourse. I also get fed up when you two seem more than happy to have this silly feud of yours spill across the rest of the forums -- like you think it's important enough to smother the rest of us in it.

Guys, chill out, and maintain a minimum 15-foot distance from each other. I think everyone here will appreciate it.

It spills over into the forum because the forum is devoid of anything else worth discussing.

#FuckSC2

[Visions of Khas]

It spills over into the forum because the forum is devoid of anything else worth discussing.

This is true. :\

[TheEconomist]

1) This forum is empty. It is literally impossible so disturb any conversation. Especially in a dead topic.

2) I got the topic back on track, you got it off track again. The topic wasn't interesting or appealling enough to keep itself going.

3) I spend hours a day on economic forums where I learn from "discourse" and spend the rest of my day learning from "discourse" with others in my economics program, before which I learned from "discourse" with my professors. I am humble when it makes sense. When there is something to be gained. Squibb literally has nothing to offer.

4) I have tried many times to have "discourse" with Squibb. In fact, I did just a few posts ago. Clearly, you aren't reading.


Give me an honest answer so that I can leave you alone for the good of this forum and maybe walk away with better understand that may allow me to understand and sympathize more with people like you.


You are incapable of understanding, so I will not waste my time trying to explain any further.

tl;dr reading helps

[KaiserStratosTygo]

You are new here. You don't know the context nor the proper way to interpret. Taking this exchange at face value just demonstrates that you shouldn't even be involved. When a small group of people post for years with thousands of posts, it's nearly impossible for the n00bs to understand the subtleties. All of what you said is wrong. You'll deny this, of course. You have a tendency of blindly walking into troll-traps on the Battle.net forums. Try harder here. Enough said. I'll leave it at that.

Oh yeah, and don't be a hypocrite. We've all seen you on the Battle.net forums.

First of all:

I do what I want.

Second:

I don't have a political agenda on the B.Net forums, I'm just an asshole, do not conflate me with your lot.

Third:

If your purpose is to troll, you've proven me correct, do not presume otherwise, you have thus ensured my place as the most intelligent human being who has ever lived, do you get it yet? you, see, I can easily predict your response to this one.

Fourth:

I do as I please, and absolutely every word I have said is correct, every single one, there is nothing here that I have said that is untrue.

I am the Third Party, and I will disrupt people's petty conflicts as I please.

And I will not be stopped.

"#FuckSC2"

this is something we all can agree on.

[Nissa]

Chill out, Kaise, and enjoy the show. I for one am highly entertained by Squibb's comments, particularly this one --


You are incapable of understanding, so I will not waste my time trying to explain any further.

Your driving desire for said "wealth and power" will be the doom of us all. I shall simply continue to enjoy myself, waiting until the inevitable day the world crumbles and all will wish they had heeded my warnings.

When the dust settles, only I will remain, to rebuild on your ashes as all your wealth and power evaporates, devoid of any value at all.

Holy crap, that's EPIC villain talk right there. Bravo! Admit it, Squibb, you're really Shang Tsung, aren't you? That's really some Shang Tsung-worthy quotation.

Speaking of sharks, my favorite is the broadnose sevengill. It's a lovely beastie.

2405

[DemolitionSquid]

Holy crap, that's EPIC villain talk right there. Bravo! Admit it, Squibb, you're really Shang Tsung, aren't you? That's really some Shang Tsung-worthy quotation.

I am the terror that flaps in the night.
I am the shadow that passes under your boat.
I am the termite that devours your floorboards.
I am the surprise in your cereal box.
I am the skunk that pollutes your air.
I am the batteries that are not included.
I am the wrong number that wakes you at 3 AM.
I am the raspberry seed you can't floss out.
I am the fingernail that scrapes the blackboard of your soul.
I am the onion that stings in your eye.
I am a special news bulletin that interrupts your favourite show.
I am the scourge that pecks at your nightmares.
I am the hairball that clogs your drains.
I am the low ratings that cancel your program.
I am the auditor that wants to look at your books.
I am the slug that slimes your begonias.
I am the bubble gum that sticks in your hair.
I am the itch you cannot reach.
I am the jailer who throws away the key.
I am the ten dollar service charge on all returned checks.

I AM DEMOLITION SQUID!

Lets. Get. Dangerous.

[KaiserStratosTygo]

"Chill out, Kaise, and enjoy the show. I for one am highly entertained by Squibb's comments, particularly this one --"

Hey, if someone wants to challenge MY AUTHRORITY OVER THIS REALM I shall engage in combat with them, until they flee!

For I am the true one true Arbiter

To all who seek to defy my will, I will find you, and I will Liam Neeson you.

WARP FIELD STABILIZED, BITCHES

[Nissa]

i am the jailer who throws away the key.

you're a commie! I knew it!

[DemolitionSquid]

you're a commie! I knew it!

I'm not sure if that was supposed to be an insult... I'm a democratic socialist.

[Nissa]

I'm not sure if that was supposed to be an insult... I'm a democratic socialist.

It's not. It's just an observation. An apparently true observation.

Ever read the Gulag Archipelago?

[DemolitionSquid]

It's not. It's just an observation. An apparently true observation.

Ever read the Gulag Archipelago?

I've heard of it, although I fail to see how it's relevant. I do not advocate Communism.

On a side note, the USSR was not / Russia is not a Communist society, nor is China. A true Communist society has never existed, they have all been Dictatorships or Fascist Capitalist.

[Nissa]

Heh, that's what they all say, because half of communism is the fools that believe in it, and the other half are the people that take advantage. No, seriously, communist thought has always been divided between violence and naivety since said thought came into being.

[DemolitionSquid]

Heh, that's what they all say, because half of communism is the fools that believe in it, and the other half are the people that take advantage. No, seriously, communist thought has always been divided between violence and naivety since said thought came into being.

Obviously. That's why I'm not a Commie.

[TheEconomist]

You don't even know what Communism is.

If you are a socialist, you are a communist. Period. Otherwise, you're using alternative definitions without knowing concerning topics you don't understand and shouldn't even bother discussing.

Somehow, the Canadian education system missed out the part where Communism is simply the perfection of socialism when all the social inequalities had been eradicated and government could be removed. Socialism is the intervention of government to bring mankind to its enlightened state with a social order based on equality, Communism was the Nirvana like phase where these things had been accomplished and government could be abolished. Socialism and Communism are just different stages of development in the same model. Communism has been defeated. Socialism has too. It survives in name only. Government titles are just advertising tag lines. Socialism now means "nicer, less ruthlessly efficient" market economy. "Give us more power, we're nicer than those meanie business people!"

If you're surprised that the intention of Communism was to be absent of government yet Communist countries are entirely totalitarian regimes, you just don't get it.

So called liberals have a tendency to do that since the term liberal comes from what is now called libertarians. Read any history book from before the civil rights movements and you'll see liberal being used to describe libertarians arguing for the 'non-aggression principles' which was that no one should tell any others how to live. So called liberals loved the idea when it pertains to being permissive concerning things like feminism, drugs, and what else, but missed the point entirely as it pertains to a truly free society. The term only remains true to its roots in economics where things like free trade and public choice is called liberalization

It's been this way since the the enlightenment era where royalist supports fought against proto-libertarian thought because they foolishly believed that the monarchy was the only thing that could protect them from the businessmen, I mean nobles. Funny how a rational argument by an economist that revenues could be increased by reducing taxes did more good to bring about the socialist utopia you desire than any socialist thinker put together. This instance considerably pre-dates the Renaissance, Enlightenment, and the French Revolution

If you're thinking of European socialism, that's called a market friendly economy, underneath the umbrella term of neoclassical economies, also known as liberal capitalism or a demand-side economy. Note how they're all market, capitalist economies either way. Funny how that works out. The truth is that every single functioning economy is the world falls under the umbrella of 'neoclassical/iberall models' which includes free market, public choice, and market friendly. Market friendly meaning that the government intervenes to stem economic crises and picks up the slack in the areas where the free market is less efficient such as education, health, and infrastructure. The US is faaaaaaar from a free market economy, and there are no public choice economies, so pretty much all economies are simply just variations of the market friendly approach.

And here's another hint, socialism, by definition, is the removal or reduction of market mechanisms from the planning process. If you believe in things like individual interaction with supply and demand mechanisms, coordination through pricing and the relationship between aggregate output and interest rates, you are a capitalist whether you like it or not. You've fallen for cheerleading tag lines and you're just too ignorant to know it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Development_economics#Neoclassical_theory
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_economy

There's nothing poetic, beautiful, or emotionally appealing about capitalism so everyone hates some aspect of it at some point because of its ruthless efficiency. The term capitalism itself is a perjorative term meant to demean its amorality. The only true definition of capitalism is simply what mankind does in the absence of government, and it was practiced long before government and long before proto-socialists started to interfere with the free behavior of individuals. It's virtue isn't in its espoused morality, it is in its amorality and its rational, realism. It survives simply because of its obvious superiority in achieving mankind's goals but it has always been and will always be despised and under appreciated because its pure nature. You hate capitalism, but everything good about your life right now is the result of capitalism, and that is why it continues to fight against the tide.

"Who are the real sharks?" is what you should be asking yourself. You bemoan the sharks, the ruthless of nature, because you feel that is harsh and immoral but that is because you fail to understand the entire reason there is life at all is because nature is amoral and efficient. The efficiency of nature, similiar to the efficiency of capitalism, which is simply the natural behavior of mankind unrestrained, will also be despised even as everyone benefits from its fruits.

[KaiserStratosTygo]

My attempts at pulling a common enemy have failed!

This thread is a lost cause!

RETREAT MEN! D:

[DemolitionSquid]

My attempts at pulling a common enemy have failed!

This thread is a lost cause!

RETREAT MEN! D:

Indeed. Eco's the one who's gone off the deep end.

Socialism is Communism?

Communism doesn't want Government?

I almost pity the foo.

Almost.

[TheEconomist]

Go ahead and argue in ignorance like you always do. It's not like I'm getting a doctorate in this or anything. It's not like I've read over a hundred books on the subject.

https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism

In Communism, there is no centralized government. There is only a collective ownership of property. Fact.

I'm not at all surprised that you know less about your 'vaunted religion' than is in the first paragraph of a Wikipedia article. That's about what I've come to expect from you.

You're confusing Leninism/Stalinism with Communism, even though you just claimed to understand that the Soviet Union was not Communist.

As for Socialism is Communism, clearly, you know nothing of Marxism and have never read any of his readings. Where do think these terms and ideas come from? I've read his works, but, of course, if I were to quote him directly, you'd just ignore it, like you just did now.

So, I'll have other socialists describe it to you:


Socialism, understood as a society in which the economy was socially owned and output was shared equally, would not be created, fully developed, separate from existing capitalist society. Instead, in historic terms, there would be a period during which capitalist society would be transformed into socialist society, a “transitional” period.

The struggle for a more just and genuinely human society, therefore, could not turn its back on the actually existing capitalist society. Just as a worker can only work with the tools and raw materials that are available, humanity in general could only create a new society with the “raw materials” provided by society’s past development.

http://www.workerspower.co.uk/2011/04/the-transition-to-communism/

Translation? Mankind is so fucked up from freely making its own decision that it will take many generations of enlightened, intellectual control to guide the people towards the correct path until they are mentally capable of taking care of their own decisions, but not before equality indoctrination has broken every flawed, chaotic impulse in mankind.

I'm now off to continue my much more fulfilling, more successfuly, more meaningful life than yours.


My attempts at pulling a common enemy have failed!

This thread is a lost cause!

RETREAT MEN! D:

Clearly, you're confused about the situation here. What you've done is the equivalent of interrupting a private conversation of the regulars at a bar, among people that have known each other a for a long time, and you've weaseled your way into the conversation as if you were a close friend. You are not. Look around you. This is not an active forum. This is not a place where rigid topic structure makes any sense. So, in ancient high school terms, go away, nerd, no one likes you.

[DemolitionSquid]

Communism is not government-less, that would be Anarchy.

Socialism is the middle ground between Capitalism and Communism where the government controls needs things that are too vital to be placed in a pure Capitalist market environment, like public health care.

Bottom line, you're fucking insane. I wash my hands of you.

[Visions of Khas]

I hate all of you.

[DemolitionSquid]

I hate all of you.

http://e.lvme.me/743pv7l.jpg

[Nissa]

Let the record show that I'm sorry, Khas. A very little bit sorry.

I looked up the definition of socialism for a paper, and apparently it's defined as a transitory stage that leads to communism.

[TheEconomist]

I looked up the definition of socialism for a paper, and apparently it's defined as a transitory stage that leads to communism.

I can understand Squibb not simply trusting me, but also doubting a Wikipedia article and Socialists themselves? Strange. He has nothing but surface knowledge about anything. He derives his terms and definitions from what he gleams from the words of politicians, no wonder he's so damn confused and wrong all the time.


Socialism is the middle ground between Capitalism and Communism where the government controls needs things that are too vital to be placed in a pure Capitalist market environment, like public health care.

No, again that is called market friendly. Put in economic terms, you provide the things not for any of the reasons you think (only politicians say that) but because some believe that capitalism is inherent weak on the demand-side and unchecked leads to imbalances in supply versus demand. They believe that government must push aggregate demand to certain levels through monetary (interest rates, money supply) and fiscal policy (infrastructure projects, subsidies, and health care) to maintain desired equilibrium outputs. Put bluntly, they believe through the labor-saving price setting and wage setting behaviors, capitalism leads ever more to a situation where the people don't have enough money to buy the goods they produce. Basically, it denies the societal benefits of an increase in the marginal product of labor, a completely false assertion as easy as evolution to prove.

Then there's Keynesianism, stemming from Keynes, who despised Communism, and wanted to save capitalism from itself. Almost all of the 'socialist' countries you admire, simply follow Keynes advice a bit more than Friedrich Hayek, that is the only difference.

If your system has a place for price mechanisms in planning then, by definition, it is a market economy. And, therefore, capitalism, since socialism is basically, by definition, a system to replace the price mechanisms from the planning process.

The core of the problem is simply that you don't want to call yourself a capitalist even though you are. You are ignorant of the ranges of capitalism from austrian, monetarism, keynesian/new keynesian, laissez-faire, and many others.

But, fine, don't believe me, what do I know, after all?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_model#Economic_system

Have The Economist magazine explain it to you, let's substitute Nordic/Scandinavian capitalism with socialism for a moment, since you think that's what socialism is. What is socialism? "stout free-traders who resist the temptation to intervene even to protect iconic companies while also looking for ways to temper capitalism's harsher effects. Also known as 'cuddly capitalism'"


that would be Anarchy.

No, anarchy is a lack of an authority of any kind. Again, you're just trying to intuit definitions from others. Retarded teenagers use it as a cry against government and schooling authority, so I'm not surprised you don't know what it truly means.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarcho-capitalism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_anarchism

Communism is a VERY strong, central authority stemming from the people's collective ownership, not government.

I'll give one final attempt to educate you, but since I'm not beside you, I cannot force you to read the links I give to you and to read and understand.

http://classroom.synonym.com/differences-between-marxism-socialism-communism-17064.html

This is another explanation with direct quotes from Karl Marx as well as paraphrasing, it's not just interpretation like the other. If you don't believe or understand this, then once again you are beyond help. When have you ever acknowledged how wrong you are? Go ahead and argue about the definition of Communism with Marx himself for all I care. I only spend enough time with you to give an excuse to sort things out in my head for myself, and that time is now past.


I hate all of you.

Maybe next time you'll keep it on track once I get it back on? It's hard to respect topic boundaries when the topic creator himself doesn't until it gives him an excuse to whine. It's already hard enough to care given how dead this forum is.

[KaiserStratosTygo]

Go ahead and argue in ignorance like you always do. It's not like I'm getting a doctorate in this or anything. It's not like I've read over a hundred books on the subject.

https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism

In Communism, there is no centralized government. There is only a collective ownership of property. Fact.

I'm not at all surprised that you know less about your 'vaunted religion' than is in the first paragraph of a Wikipedia article. That's about what I've come to expect from you.

You're confusing Leninism/Stalinism with Communism, even though you just claimed to understand that the Soviet Union was not Communist.

As for Socialism is Communism, clearly, you know nothing of Marxism and have never read any of his readings. Where do think these terms and ideas come from? I've read his works, but, of course, if I were to quote him directly, you'd just ignore it, like you just did now.

So, I'll have other socialists describe it to you:



http://www.workerspower.co.uk/2011/04/the-transition-to-communism/

Translation? Mankind is so fucked up from freely making its own decision that it will take many generations of enlightened, intellectual control to guide the people towards the correct path until they are mentally capable of taking care of their own decisions, but not before equality indoctrination has broken every flawed, chaotic impulse in mankind.

I'm now off to continue my much more fulfilling, more successfuly, more meaningful life than yours.



Clearly, you're confused about the situation here. What you've done is the equivalent of interrupting a private conversation of the regulars at a bar, among people that have known each other a for a long time, and you've weaseled your way into the conversation as if you were a close friend. You are not. Look around you. This is not an active forum. This is not a place where rigid topic structure makes any sense. So, in ancient high school terms, go away, nerd, no one likes you.

This is a forum, there are exactly 0 private conversations.

I will do as I please and if that bothers you, neat.

I just wanted a laugh, but now it's time I waste your own.

I am THE THIRD PARTY, AND my doctrine is as follows:

#1 I do as I please

#2 I do what I want

#3 I do what I wish

if I want to interrupt your marital squabble I shall do so, as it is my will.

And I am in the right, you basically gave me carte blanche (This is not a place where rigid topic structure makes any sense) Now I get to talk about tacos or something at my leisure

You want to have a private chat without interruption, take it to the PMs.

Now, I am unsure of your motives here, I was willing to leave, but you responded in a way (probably intentional) to draw me back in, if your intent was to make me feel bad or to leave, you have failed.

well, I'm here? where do you guys keep the scotch?




I hate all of you.

Then join me in the total destruction of reality, together we will purge this universe of all life and non-life alike!

[TTHGFDJ]

Human faces are a great way to pay homage to employees. There is also a political/social agenda over the design of human characters.

[The_Blade]

Oh well, I like you. So, we will keep you in red.

You took the words from my mind!

[Sheliek]

Human faces are a great way to pay homage to employees. There is also a political/social agenda over the design of human characters.

Where can I buy a human face? I know someone I'd love to pay homage to.

[UrunOfTheAuriga]

Too late for the shitstorm?

#TrumpWillMakeStarcraftReal

Also I am no racist but Orange-skinned Protoss are objectively the best.