LotV is... SC2 on crack?

[sandwich_bird]

So I just got into the beta and... wtf is wrong with the speed of this game!? I don't know if they actually increased the game speed (I haven't been paying attention to all the patch details) or if it's just the effect of starting with a full round of workers but man is it fast!

To me, this is bad. I thought SC2 was already volatile enough but now, if you don't get rushed down 1 minute in then you end up massing T3 AOE units before the 5 minutes mark and everything is dead 2 seconds after the engagement with the enemy started; GG... Ok, that's not 100% accurate but you get the point.

Anyone else feels like this?

[Drake Clawfang]

I haven't played LotV's multi, but I do recall Blizzard saying they want to speak up the slow and boring early game with higher starting worker count and town halls giving more supply. I raise an eyebrow at this, though, because even I, the low-rank Gold noob, know that the early game is everything in terms of establishing your economy, following a build order, scouting your opponent, etc. Speed up resource collection throws that into chaos.

IMHO, a simpler and less dramatic fix would just be to make starting bases gold minerals.

[Sheliek]

The metagame will adjust and everyone will get used to it. Wings of Liberty's economy (and overall playstyle, really) was quite different from Brood War's, and I remember watching early streams and replays, even from pros, and it was slow and awkward and no one quite knew what to do at first.

[TheEconomist]

Yip. LotV is basically SC2 with a cocaine rush. I'm liking it so far.

[SaZun]

Good too see some of the same people here and the site back up in general. :D

ontopic: With quite a few matches played last weekend after the massive macro design changes it seems they have slowed the game back down some. Originally it was fast paced feeling as mentioned and it was hard to get footing but after these changes in macro the game does feel a bit slower in pacing now.

[Jconant]

There are some issues and oddballs that need resolving: lurkers, cyclones, vipers, and maybe zealotcharge are a bit op, mothership/core, tempest, infestors and battleships should be redefined (as they are not all that helpful), and mule's can probably come back as an emergency repair mechanic. However, as least on the protoss part it feels a lot better (fighting against zerg and terran arent impossible anymore), with number tweaking around the corner beta is in an ok place.

[SaZun]

For sure there are a ton of balance changes that need to happen. DK said that he wasn't going to start making too many adjustments until he had more data after the design changes. Lurkers can be pretty damn good but I'm not sure how much of a nerf they need, a lot of the time's I've had them be absurdly effective is a burrowed concave in the expected path. You run a ling through to get an idea of where an "a-move" group would walk and you set a concave to hit the ball. Protoss or terran walks through and even with detection its pretty nasty because of the lurker range. They are a bit too strong as worker harass though, yet so are a lot of things.

Beta has a few months to go so I'm hopeful they will get it on track but I hope they don't kill any units too much. Example would be tanks in the WoL beta. They may have been fine as is since we didn't have that much professional knowledge (pros hesitant to come over from BW) at the time but they got a kneejerk reaction.

[Jconant]

With things like the mothership and tempest theres a need for design attention, but lurker just needs a numbers tweek (maybe a range and hp nerf?/ dmg/ +armor dmg adjustment so that some sort of ground unit can stand against it)

I concur. Beta is in a better place.

[Sheliek]

On the lurker issue, whether it is even an issue or just lack of obvious solutions in-game at the moment: have they considered bringing back the Seismic Spines upgrade to 9 range (the current default) and put the default back to 6?

[Jconant]

it just seems to be exclusively a protoss issue, as terran has scan and air that can handle that sort of composition of lurker/hydra. void ray/ carrier could be a clear cut choice to counter, but hydras and those broken vipers shut that down. Range may be an ok fix, but it would severely hurt its ability to siege.

[Sheliek]

So a week or so ago, Blizzard said they were trying to making workers less supply-consuming. They tried too things, but oddly they didn't mention trying making them use 0.5 supply, like a single zergling. Why do you suppose that would be?

[Jconant]

i suppose it is because they are trying to keep the player from making deathballs