Starcraft II Cheesy? The Original Isn't Exactly Shakespeare.

[Drake Clawfang]

I want to get this off my chest, because I'm still seeing people (not just here) complaining about SC2's story. It's cliched, it's cheesy, characterization is bad, etc.

I don't deny, the sequel has problems in all these areas. But to quote the topic title - the original game wasn't exactly Shakespeare, either.

Cheesy sterotypes and cliches? Two words - Terran Confederacy. So southern even Texas thinks they need to tone it down. Bad writing? The Confederacy lets the zerg infest their worlds and pretty much does nothing to stop it. Characterization? I guess Raynor *really* hated the Confederates, because all it takes is a one-mission break and maybe three days to take him from Marshall to rebel gunning down Confederate troops. And of course Kerrigan and Raynor share about three conversations, yet even in the original game and Brood War their apparent love is a crux of the plot.

The zerg campaign is fine, though I will bring up - we never find out why it is only dark templar can kill cerebrates. How does reincarnation work, anyway?

I will note at this point that my version of the original Starcraft was a jewel case with no manual of any sort, so I had no idea what the dark templar are, how protoss society worked, or anything of the sort. And ho boy, with that in mind, let us take a moment to reflect the awful writing of the protoss campaign. Shall we discuss that half the campaign consists of a civil war when their homeworld is in the middle of a zerg invasion? How about the very expository and telly dialogue Aldaris and Tassadar spout? "I know you were reluctant to leave Aiur in this dark hour, and that you still grieve for the loss of your comrade Fenix." Sure, if you say so, I mean he was cool, but I'm not exactly in mourning for a guy I've known for three missions. "The Judicator have long since steered the actions of the Templar to their own ends. It's time we acted of our own accord!" Again, if you say so. Do I even need to be here? It occurs to me I don't actually get a choice in this, in the first two campaigns you're just along for the ride doing as you're told, but apparently we suddenly have autonomy forced on us and must pick a side. Or rather, are told which side we pick. What if I the player don't trust Tassadar and want to arrest him? NO YOU DON'T, THE NARRATIVE SAYS YOU HELP HIM!

On to Brood War. Let's start with the retcon "the dark templar haven't been nomads for centuries, we totally have a homeworld," and "oh yeah, this super awesome crystal is on Char, it's really powerful and stuff, which is why not one person mentioned it in the base game." And of course Aldaris' rebellion, I don't need to go into detail there, because no one can defend that plot point as anything other than idiocy.

The UED campaign. Why is Stukov only the vice-admiral when DuGalle has his head up his own ass and makes one terrible decision after the other? Destroy the Psi Disruptor, let's make sure the only thing Mengsk can do is nuke us and then not have any defenses ready. Stukov's death, again, no one can defend that plot point as not being stupid. By the way, remember those 18 battlecruisers we steal in the second mission? I do, they sure would have come in handy in the rest of the campaign. I'll take even a token reference to them because without one that mission was a waste of our time in-universe and out.

Episode VI... really, the plot of Brood War as a whole can be summed up as "everyone except Kerrigan, Duran, and to a lesser extent Stukov, acts like an idiot." Everyone trusts Kerrigan or allows her to manipulate them, inevitably and predictably she betrays them, and because of it she rises to the top. Oh, and if we're gonna mention cheesy and cliched dialogue, I'd be remiss to leave out these gems of Kerrigan's. "They're siding with the evil they know over the evil they don't... They simply don't yet realize what it will cost them." After that Kerrigan holds her pinkie finger up to her mouth and laughs evilly. "Not all of your little soldiers or space ships will stand in my way again." I'll get you, DuGalle, and your little fleet, too!

And let's be honest - does anyone really think Blizzard had this hybrid-Duran stuff planned 10 years ago? Dark Origin was basically there to be cool and mysterious, but there isn't any substance to it when you think about it on its own. Ooooo, there are hybrids and they're evil because... Zeratul says so. Bad things, bad hybrid, ew. And this mysterious character who works for a higher power is behind them, because... I guess he was bored and they didn't have video games in the K-Sector.

I'm not just ranting, it'd be nice if someone can explain to me why these problems are overlooked in the original game but make people angry at the sequel. I love the sequel and original game fine, but the sequel's problems have been present sine Day 1. I guess the original gets a pass thanks to nostalgia goggles? Both the sequel and original have their moments of bad writing, cheesy dialogue, and dumb characters, but also have a lot of humor, fun, and epicness. So, what's up?

[Gradius]

I want to get this off my chest, because I'm still seeing people (not just here) complaining about SC2's story. It's cliched, it's cheesy, characterization is bad, etc.

I don't deny, the sequel has problems in all these areas. But to quote the topic title - the original game wasn't exactly Shakespeare, either.
It's still better than SC2.


Two words - Terran Confederacy. So southern even Texas thinks they need to tone it down.
It served to add to the ramshackle atmosphere that made the Terrans so unique, yet insignificant when compared to the zerg or protoss. More importantly, it didn't try to pretend to be anything other than what it was, unlike Raynor's speech in Wings of Liberty that tries so hard to be epic yet comes off as completely cheeseball due to the writing and sunlight streaming in through the clouds. The lack of self-awareness is just one of SC2's many problems.


Bad writing? The Confederacy lets the zerg infest their worlds and pretty much does nothing to stop it.
Explained in the game:

Arcturus Mengsk
The Confederacy used these Psi Emitters to lure the Zerg into isolated containment areas. Your colony-Mar Sara-Commander, was one such location.

Jim Raynor
What are you saying?

Arcturus Mengsk
I'm saying the Zerg are a secret weapon developed by the Confederacy. I'm saying you were all subjects of a Confederate weapons test.

In SC1, Mar Sara wasn't an important Confederate core world. It was an insignificant fringe colony, which Duke seemed to despise because they didn't know where their loyalties lie.


Characterization? I guess Raynor *really* hated the Confederates, because all it takes is a one-mission break and maybe three days to take him from Marshall to rebel gunning down Confederate troops.
He was arrested and the game made it clear the Confederates weren't putting in their maximum effort to save civilians.


And of course Kerrigan and Raynor share about three conversations, yet even in the original game and Brood War their apparent love is a crux of the plot.
Not for me.

Their few flirting lines only served to cement their camaraderie and pour salt on the wound when Kerrigan was infested, which was made even more raw when Raynor promised to kill her at the end of BW. She's a disgusting bug monster and mass murderer. I see no love story here. :$


The zerg campaign is fine, though I will bring up - we never find out why it is only dark templar can kill cerebrates. How does reincarnation work, anyway?

"For the Protoss who murdered Zasz are unlike anything we have faced before. These Dark Templar radiate energies that are much like my own, and it is by these energies that they have caused me harm."


I will note at this point that my version of the original Starcraft was a jewel case with no manual of any sort, so I had no idea what the dark templar are, how protoss society worked, or anything of the sort.
So what? For all we know you bought a disk at a garage sale.

Where's SC2's manual? Oh right, it doesn't have one. :P

With Blizzard's massive resources now compared to 1999, you'd think there'd be a giant book that ships with each copy of the game. Instead we get...nothing! :o


Shall we discuss that half the campaign consists of a civil war when their homeworld is in the middle of a zerg invasion?
That's kind of the point. Literally every character realizes this.

How does this compare to any of the problems in SC2? There are no characters that actually acknowledge the flaws in the game. Tychus never says "Oh shit, I hope Mengsk doesn't mind that I'm embarassing him on his own homeworld and kills me with the kill-switch that I have in my suit."


How about the very expository and telly dialogue Aldaris and Tassadar spout? "I know you were reluctant to leave Aiur in this dark hour, and that you still grieve for the loss of your comrade Fenix." Sure, if you say so, I mean he was cool, but I'm not exactly in mourning for a guy I've known for three missions.
You're playing as another character. It hints at hidden depths.


"The Judicator have long since steered the actions of the Templar to their own ends. It's time we acted of our own accord!" Again, if you say so. Do I even need to be here? It occurs to me I don't actually get a choice in this, in the first two campaigns you're just along for the ride doing as you're told, but apparently we suddenly have autonomy forced on us and must pick a side. Or rather, are told which side we pick. What if I the player don't trust Tassadar and want to arrest him? NO YOU DON'T, THE NARRATIVE SAYS YOU HELP HIM!
"You're playing as another character."

SC2 does the same exact thing. I don't want to work with Valerian. I don't want to trust Tychus, etc. SC2 is worse in fact, because while in 1999 we didn't have the luxury of branching missions with different narratives, in 2010, not only do we have that, but when Blizzard tried to implement it, reality itself shifted so that Raynor could do no wrong and the plot went where the writers wanted anyway. Side with the Protoss on Haven? Whoa, the entire planet is infested with zerg. Side with Hanson? Hey, it turns out nobody's infested except a few guys in cages in the back of our base.


On to Brood War. Let's start with the retcon "the dark templar haven't been nomads for centuries, we totally have a homeworld,"
How is that a retcon? It's inconceivable that they'd have warp blade technology and space travel without some sort of center of civilization. What do you think they do, just miracle their amazing technology into existence?


and "oh yeah, this super awesome crystal is on Char, it's really powerful and stuff, which is why not one person mentioned it in the base game."
It's actually worthless without the xel'naga temple, but ok.


And of course Aldaris' rebellion, I don't need to go into detail there, because no one can defend that plot point as anything other than idiocy.
It's stupid for sure, and yet we can easily see why a bigot who has been trained to hate an entire group of people his entire life is going to do something extreme when presented with evidence that he thinks confirms his lifelong beliefs. Especially after giving a sincere effort to change the first time around.

Compare this to SC2 where every character just loses 50 IQ points, like Mengsk using the most ineffective double agent in the universe, or failing to deny easily-faked evidence. We can discuss Aldaris's psychology all day long. But there's nothing to discuss in SC2 other than how bad the writing is. That's what all SC lore discussion has devolved into these days, which is sad, but there's a reason for that.


Destroy the Psi Disruptor, let's make sure the only thing Mengsk can do is nuke us and then not have any defenses ready.
"Though we know how to compensate for Mengsk's defenses, we don't have enough time to follow through on them both. "


Stukov's death, again, no one can defend that plot point as not being stupid.
It's a valid point, and yet Duran's infested voice change implies to players that are paying attention that something more is going on here than just stupidity. Now, it's still bad writing because the casual audience member isn't going to notice something like that, yet the attention to detail here far surpasses the blatant laziness prevalent in all of SC2.


I do, they sure would have come in handy in the rest of the campaign. I'll take even a token reference to them because without one that mission was a waste of our time in-universe and out.
Cinematic of Char with the fleet of battlecruisers?


Episode VI... really, the plot of Brood War as a whole can be summed up as "everyone except Kerrigan, Duran, and to a lesser extent Stukov, acts like an idiot." Everyone trusts Kerrigan or allows her to manipulate them, inevitably and predictably she betrays them, and because of it she rises to the top.
Again, not a secret to any character in the game:

"Fenix
Now that the Psi Disrupter has been destroyed and Kerrigan has regained control of her minions, I fear that she will forget our pact and turn on us.

Jim Raynor
I know what you mean, Fenix. I'd love to believe that she's on the level, but there's a part of me that just knows better. However, I do believe that she's serious about taking out the UED. The only real question left is what happens to us when she wins.

Arcturus Mengsk
If you ask me, she's completely untrustworthy. But, so long as she'll help me retake Korhal, I'll work with her."

"Samir Duran
Do you think they suspect anything, my Queen?

Infested Kerrigan
Of course. They aren't stupid, Duran. "

It's made patently obvious that they're only working with her because they have no choice. The critique is still valid, but not to that large of a degree. The biggest offenders are Zeratul letting her leave Shakuras after she tells him her evil plan, and the UED not fortifying the psi disruptor after she tells them her plan to destroy it. That's some Azmodan-level failure right there. But the other characters? No. What the hell were they supposed to do?



Oh, and if we're gonna mention cheesy and cliched dialogue, I'd be remiss to leave out these gems of Kerrigan's. "They're siding with the evil they know over the evil they don't... They simply don't yet realize what it will cost them." After that Kerrigan holds her pinkie finger up to her mouth and laughs evilly. "Not all of your little soldiers or space ships will stand in my way again." I'll get you, DuGalle, and your little fleet, too!
Kerrigan's sarcastic wit was the best thing about her. It's what made this line in HoTS awesome and not cheesy: "Nice quote Arcturus. I'll have it engraved on your tombstone."

Those lines aren't that cheesy. If I had time I'd find quotes on par if not worse from HoTS.


And let's be honest - does anyone really think Blizzard had this hybrid-Duran stuff planned 10 years ago? Dark Origin was basically there to be cool and mysterious, but there isn't any substance to it when you think about it on its own. Ooooo, there are hybrids and they're evil because... Zeratul says so. Bad things, bad hybrid, ew. And this mysterious character who works for a higher power is behind them, because... I guess he was bored and they didn't have video games in the K-Sector.
Before SC2 came out, there were dozens of permutations floating around the forums of Duran and Hybrid storylines that didn't involved Lord Voldemort killing everyone for no apparent reason so that he can clone himself. Granted, the original idea didn't have much mileage to it, but they picked a god-awful storyline for it with the least amount of intelligent sci-fi as possible.


I'm not just ranting, it'd be nice if someone can explain to me why these problems are overlooked in the original game but make people angry at the sequel. I love the sequel and original game fine, but the sequel's problems have been present sine Day 1.
It's the magnitude and severity of the flaws in SC2 which severely outweigh those in SC1. Nobody is overlooking anything. BW was a worse product because the co-writer for SC1 (James Phinney) didn't work on it, and Metzen isn't actually that great of a storyteller.

These articles go into further depth about SC2's failures:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1vIAIWPu0dfx5OV9dChPsos6FRAIhY5tk4Es7aJiLp58/edit?usp=sharing
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/374721415#1
https://starcraftiitroubles.wordpress.com/
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/8198642155
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/10160956386


I guess the original gets a pass thanks to nostalgia goggles?
Nope. I can watch a Saturday morning cartoon that I'm nostalgic for and recognize the crap writing behind it. Just like how I replayed SC1BW in Mass Recall a few months ago and it's still decent, whereas SC2 is still shit.

When somebody critiques a Transformers film for the terrible story, I'm not going to gloss over flaws just because I happen to enjoy those movies.

[Drake Clawfang]

Arcturus Mengsk
The Confederacy used these Psi Emitters to lure the Zerg into isolated containment areas. Your colony-Mar Sara-Commander, was one such location.

Jim Raynor
What are you saying?

Arcturus Mengsk
I'm saying the Zerg are a secret weapon developed by the Confederacy. I'm saying you were all subjects of a Confederate weapons test.

In SC1, Mar Sara wasn't an important Confederate core world. It was an insignificant fringe colony, which Duke seemed to despise because they didn't know where their loyalties lie.

Mengsk also said the Confederates are breeding the zerg. I presumed he was lying about the use of the emitters to make them angrier so they'd go along with his plans a while longer.


Their few flirting lines only served to cement their camaraderie and pour salt on the wound when Kerrigan was infested, which was made even more raw when Raynor promised to kill her at the end of BW. She's a disgusting bug monster and mass murderer. I see no love story here. :$

Their romance is the major reason Raynor defects and later allies with Kerrigan.

"Dammit! I shouldn't have let her go alone."


"For the Protoss who murdered Zasz are unlike anything we have faced before. These Dark Templar radiate energies that are much like my own, and it is by these energies that they have caused me harm."

Yeah, but that's not an explanation. That's "it's magic/psionics, we don't have to explain it."


So what? For all we know you bought a disk at a garage sale.

Where's SC2's manual? Oh right, it doesn't have one. :P

So far it hasn't needed one. Having read the DT Saga, most of the stuff it talks about is actually irrelevant to SC2. I'm just making the manual comment to explain how badly the protoss campaign is written that, without prior knowledge of the lore, it makes no sense.


That's kind of the point. Literally every character realizes this.

To borrow a quote, "acknowledging your plot is cliched and stupid doesn't change the fact your plot is cliched and stupid."


SC2 does the same exact thing. I don't want to work with Valerian. I don't want to trust Tychus, etc. SC2 is worse in fact, because while in 1999 we didn't have the luxury of branching missions with different narratives, in 2010, not only do we have that, but when Blizzard tried to implement it, reality itself shifted so that Raynor could do no wrong and the plot went where the writers wanted anyway. Side with the Protoss on Haven? Whoa, the entire planet is infested with zerg. Side with Hanson? Hey, it turns out nobody's infested except a few guys in cages in the back of our base.

Okay, but that's the difference. SC1 puts you into the story, and then gives you no control over it. SC2 dispenses with that pretense. You are not the character in the story, you are just experiencing the story through someone else's eyes. No one talks to you or addresses you, they talk to Raynor or Kerrigan or Artanis. Your decisions are a non-entity because you are a non-entity. The original game tried to do it halfway and it doesn't work.


It's actually worthless without the xel'naga temple, but ok.

It's an important protoss artifact on a zerg world. I'd think retrieving it is important, especially if the dark templar know all along what it is for. Did Raszagal just never tell Zeratul about the crystals, so he saw this thing and didn't recognize its significance? I guess not, because he says in BW that when he was first on Char, he recognized it.


It's stupid for sure, and yet we can easily see why a bigot who has been trained to hate an entire group of people his entire life is going to do something extreme when presented with evidence that he thinks confirms his lifelong beliefs. Especially after giving a sincere effort to change the first time around.

Nope. Aldaris didn't trust Kerrigan, but while they were gone he found out Raszagal was controlled by Kerrigan. Did he attempt to tell Artanis or Zeratul this before Kerrigan stuck a claw in his back? Nope, he chooses to spend the mission taunting you. Even if they wouldn't believe him, tell them so at least they know!


"Though we know how to compensate for Mengsk's defenses, we don't have enough time to follow through on them both.

Literally four marines and a comsat station could have stopped the ghosts. I think the UED could have made a better effort. Once the ghosts were actually nuking, those nifty reinforcements sure arrived pretty quick... and without detection. Oops.


Cinematic of Char with the fleet of battlecruisers?

And where were they in the UED's campaign?

I can solve this problem in one line of dialogue.

"Captain, our battlecruiser fleet are holding orbit over Korhal to prevent any Dominion reinforcements from interfering, and our planetside troops are ready to begin our invasion of the Dominion."

Boom.


Again, not a secret to any character in the game

Again, "acknowledging your plot is cliched and stupid doesn't change the fact your plot is cliched and stupid."


It's made patently obvious that they're only working with her because they have no choice... But the other characters? No. What the hell were they supposed to do?

Mengsk? Well, let's see, without Raynor and Fenix, he would be sitting in a cell. That aside, he called in a bunch of "favors" to rally a fleet to attack Kerrigan at the end of Brood War.

As for Raynor and Fenix, they should head to Shakuras. Apparently they can fly to Korhal, and don't tell me they don't know where Shakuras is, the warp gate probably has the coordinates, and even if not they use the warp gate later on to flee Aiur. They could use it to send one damn zealot to Shakuras, tell the protoss what's going on with the UED, and then come back with coordinates for the planet's location so Raynor and Fenix can take the long way there in the Hyperion.

Remember also, the alliance happened during the Korhal invasion, possibly beforehand given the time frame. Kerrigan approached them first, and they accepted her deal long before the UED took control of the Overmind. That's a conversation I'd like to see - Kerrigan convincing Raynor and Fenix to ally with her and rescue Mengsk when they have no reason at the time to do either of those things.


It's the magnitude and severity of the flaws in SC2 which severely outweigh those in SC1. Nobody is overlooking anything.

Except they are. I see it everywhere, "the original Starcraft's story was so awesome, SC2's sucks." If it is just the point "the original game was cheesy, but SC2 overdoes it," I would actually agree with that, because that's my opinion in a nutshell. I enjoy both games, but oh yes, SC2 is not as good story-wise as SC1. It is more cliched and cheesier, but the original game had the same problems. But I don't see anyone say "man this series got too cheesy," I see people praise the original game's plot and hate the sequel's. They're not that far apart.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FranchiseOriginalSin

[Nissa]

Such long replies. I'll read them after I do dishes, but for now I'll just say that yes, SC2 was super cheesy. While SC1 wasn't perfect, you don't have to be perfect to be better than the cheesefest of SC2.

The main reason is tension. In Starcraft 1, the tension constantly rose. You had the Protoss blasting planets, the Zerg showing up, the Confederacy turning out bad, Mengsk turning out bad, Kerrigan becoming a Zerg, Aiur being invaded, etc. The tension just kept going up and making things exciting.

In SC2, Mengsk is a bland baby, the Tal'darim are a joke, the Protoss are almost absent (LotV aside), Kerrigan being more melodramatic than deadly, Mengsk dies, etc. Simply put, there's nothing to fear in SC2. There's no stakes. And stakes made all the difference.

[Nissa]

Okay, so I'm not quite sure I want to dive right into a debate between you two, particularly since Gradius should be the one to support his own arguments -- I don't want to speak for him. However, I do have some things to comment on.



Mengsk also said the Confederates are breeding the zerg. I presumed he was lying about the use of the emitters to make them angrier so they'd go along with his plans a while longer.

It is entirely possible that the Confederates were breeding the Zerg. They were using the outer colonies (such as Mar Sara) for experimentation on what the Zerg were capable of. Also, there is a mission in SC1 where Raynor infiltrates a Confederate facility and finds Zerg being contained there. While Mengsk is an unreliable source of information, the best liars always try to use the truth for their own ends rather than lie outright. Given how dirty the Confeds were, it would be easy for Mengsk to simply take advantage of their immorality.

That, and as I recall, the line was "...they may even be breeding the things." Hence, it's more of a supposition on Mengsk's part rather than a direct statement.


Their romance is the major reason Raynor defects and later allies with Kerrigan.

"Dammit! I shouldn't have let her go alone."

That only establishes that Raynor cared about her, not that he had romantic feelings for her. Raynor would have done the same for a war buddy as well, and it was his respect for her as a soldier that allowed him to stay away -- if he were really in love with her, he would not have been capable of leaving her there. That, and Glynnis Campbell, the original Kerrigan voice, denied romance between the two.


So far it hasn't needed one. Having read the DT Saga, most of the stuff it talks about is actually irrelevant to SC2. I'm just making the manual comment to explain how badly the protoss campaign is written that, without prior knowledge of the lore, it makes no sense.

Please don't use the DT Saga as a source. Besides being poorly written, it also retcons much of Protoss lore. For example, the writings that Khas found (as described in the SC1 manual) were turned into magical crystals that he touched. The manual also claimed that Khas' original name was lost to time, and yet the DT Saga has a preserver remember his "real" name, Savassan. And even if the book were well-written and not retcon heavy, it was clearly never intended to be a manual for the SC2 game.

That, and there's nothing wrong with a game having world details in the manual. It surprises me that you say the Protoss campaign makes no sense. How confusing can it be? One faction has long since exiled another from their world, and one Templar ends up trying to unite the two. It's a pretty basic story.


Okay, but that's the difference. SC1 puts you into the story, and then gives you no control over it. SC2 dispenses with that pretense. You are not the character in the story, you are just experiencing the story through someone else's eyes. No one talks to you or addresses you, they talk to Raynor or Kerrigan or Artanis. Your decisions are a non-entity because you are a non-entity. The original game tried to do it halfway and it doesn't work.

Funny, I thought the first game worked just fine with the player being a character. It gave the other characters a reason to state mission briefings without looking like they're talking to themselves. This seems like more of a matter of an opinion than anything else. After all, most people feel the perspective worked fine in SC1. That, and the problem with SC2 was never perspective. Some (including myself) think that the sequel should have had the same perspective as the first games, but in the end it's neither here nor there. Whether the player is the character or not doesn't make either game good or bad.



Nope. Aldaris didn't trust Kerrigan, but while they were gone he found out Raszagal was controlled by Kerrigan. Did he attempt to tell Artanis or Zeratul this before Kerrigan stuck a claw in his back? Nope, he chooses to spend the mission taunting you. Even if they wouldn't believe him, tell them so at least they know!

That's not really the point. See, Aldaris is a stubborn, bigoted person. He respected the Dark Templar when he believed that they were safe, but because of years of discrimination, all it took was Kerrigan's interference for him to revert back to old habits. He gave them a chance, and they failed him. Just look at how Raszagal dissed him in front of Kerrigan. Aldaris, as a high-ranking Judicator, would have spent years being respected. To be snapped at like that is bound to hurt his ego.

In essence, Aldaris is being the quick-tempered fool, not the writers. Were his decisions good? No, but they were in line with his past behavior.


Except they are. I see it everywhere, "the original Starcraft's story was so awesome, SC2's sucks." If it is just the point "the original game was cheesy, but SC2 overdoes it," I would actually agree with that, because that's my opinion in a nutshell. I enjoy both games, but oh yes, SC2 is not as good story-wise as SC1. It is more cliched and cheesier, but the original game had the same problems. But I don't see anyone say "man this series got too cheesy," I see people praise the original game's plot and hate the sequel's. They're not that far apart.

They are to me. The real linchpin here is tone. That is, how the story is supposed to feel. SC1 felt like science fiction. It was gritty, intense, and the characters felt real. SC2, on the other hand, ditched the science fiction for drama, inane prophecies, and "a constant state of evolution." Think about...Star Fox. Look at Starfox SNES compared to Star Fox Adventures. SF SNES is to SF Adventures as SC1 is to SC2 -- the latter of both changed the tone, character basis, and feel of the entire series. When you have an audience that fell in love with one, but is forced to accept just about the opposite, people are bound to have a problem with it.

[Drake Clawfang]

It surprises me that you say the Protoss campaign makes no sense. How confusing can it be?

What's the Khala? What's a praetor, an Executor? I presume they're military ranks, but like, does Fenix outrank me? What's the Conclave and what's the difference between the Conclave and the Judicators, both seem to be the ones in charge. What's the Templar Caste and why apparently do they not get along with the Judicator? Are we just an organization of High Templar, I don't think so because Aldaris said Fenix was a Templar, but he was a Zealot. Why were the dark templar banished and why are they such a big deal the Conclave will go to war with them to keep them from Aiur? What's the history between Fenix and Tassadar that the former will betray the Conclave to help him. Why is Raynor paling around with the protoss when they blew up his homeworld? And where the heck did Raynor get his own battlecruiser, he sure didn't have that before.

I know all this has an explanation in lore, ofc, but not in the campaign. When you play the original campaign by itself, you find yourself asking these questions. The campaign's story hinges on friction between the different bodies of protoss government and society, so you'd better know about them. Imagine someone in Europe who knows nothing about American politics or pop culture watching The Colbert Report. "Who are the Republicans? I guess they're the bad guys. And this guy doesn't like them, but he's a Republican too? Uh, okay. Haha, that is so like Donald Trump? I guess so, if the host says it is."


The main reason is tension. In Starcraft 1, the tension constantly rose. You had the Protoss blasting planets, the Zerg showing up, the Confederacy turning out bad, Mengsk turning out bad, Kerrigan becoming a Zerg, Aiur being invaded, etc. The tension just kept going up and making things exciting.

SC2 has tension too. WoL alone - are your allies trustworthy, what are they up to, the zerg are back and there's no protoss ready to stop them this time, what are the artifacts and what are they doing, why does Moebius want them, and then ofc the secret mission and all its questions.

The difference is that SC2 is more optimistic - the heroes can win once in a while without having two of their general die and half their army destroyed. And there's nothing wrong with that.


The real linchpin here is tone. That is, how the story is supposed to feel. SC1 felt like science fiction. It was gritty, intense, and the characters felt real. SC2, on the other hand, ditched the science fiction for drama, inane prophecies, and "a constant state of evolution."

I will give you that SC2 is leaning more to the fantasy side of science-fantasy, and if you like that more or less that's your opinion.

But otherwise, the first Starcraft's tone wasn't all that different. "Gritty and intense," not really. Sometimes, maybe, but eh. I think on the first three missions of the Terran campaign in either game and they gel fairly well. SC2 just has a more elaborate presentation because the technology is better.

Frankly, I always thought the original Starcraft was limiting to the writers. It was obvious all over the place that Blizzard had more complex stories in mind than the game allowed them to represent, topics and events are constantly referred to that are not explained in the game. And that does help establish the universe, that there's a larger story going on than just what we see, but it also results in stuff like the protoss campaign. The abundance of novels (don't complain, I'm just saying) is proof that they have more story in mind than what was in the original game. A story like the Dark Templar Saga could not be told in a mission chain like the original Starcraft's, not without heavily contorting it to fit a gameplay structure.

SC2, now, with its different presentation and engine, is allowing them to show us that story. You *could* tell the DT Saga story in SC2's system, heck, Zeratul's crystal to Raynor is pretty much his take on Zamara giving Jake memories. I guess though, now that Blizzard can show off the SC universe in the detail they want, fans don't like it anymore?

[Nissa]

What's the Khala? What's a praetor, an Executor? I presume they're military ranks, but like, does Fenix outrank me? What's the Conclave and what's the difference between the Conclave and the Judicators, both seem to be the ones in charge. What's the Templar Caste and why apparently do they not get along with the Judicator? Are we just an organization of High Templar, I don't think so because Aldaris said Fenix was a Templar, but he was a Zealot. Why were the dark templar banished and why are they such a big deal the Conclave will go to war with them to keep them from Aiur? What's the history between Fenix and Tassadar that the former will betray the Conclave to help him. Why is Raynor paling around with the protoss when they blew up his homeworld? And where the heck did Raynor get his own battlecruiser, he sure didn't have that before.

I know all this has an explanation in lore, ofc, but not in the campaign. When you play the original campaign by itself, you find yourself asking these questions. The campaign's story hinges on friction between the different bodies of protoss government and society, so you'd better know about them. Imagine someone in Europe who knows nothing about American politics or pop culture watching The Colbert Report. "Who are the Republicans? I guess they're the bad guys. And this guy doesn't like them, but he's a Republican too? Uh, okay. Haha, that is so like Donald Trump? I guess so, if the host says it is."

...I think that's a bit of a strange example. It's really a stretch to compare the Protoss to Republicans. You might be able to compare them to Ireland's rough history (British domination vs independent Irish), but even that is more of a fun thought exercise than something relevant to the game.

I think you're also getting caught up on vocabulary. "Praetor" and "Judicator" are really just labels for ordinary jobs. You don't need to know what rank Fenix is to understand the story. Actually, I kinda like that not everything is explained. More room for the imagination, then.



SC2 has tension too. WoL alone - are your allies trustworthy, what are they up to, the zerg are back and there's no protoss ready to stop them this time, what are the artifacts and what are they doing, why does Moebius want them, and then ofc the secret mission and all its questions.

Yeesh...it's not tension if the Tal'darim are generic fanatic tropes, Raynor's killing them for money, and the whole Tychus betrayal thing strains credulity. If I can't take the characters seriously, then I won't believe them as threats.


The difference is that SC2 is more optimistic - the heroes can win once in a while without having two of their general die and half their army destroyed. And there's nothing wrong with that.

That's not the difference at all. The difference is better dialogue in the original, and characters that didn't come off the trope truck. Keep in mind that I'm not saying a story should be depressing, I'm simply saying that a character's path to a goal is more rewarding if it's difficult and the enemies seem genuinely like big bads.



I will give you that SC2 is leaning more to the fantasy side of science-fantasy, and if you like that more or less that's your opinion.

Ugh, ten point penalty for saying "science fantasy." That phrase turns my stomach. That, and there's no "science" at all. It's pure space opera fantasy.


But otherwise, the first Starcraft's tone wasn't all that different. "Gritty and intense," not really. Sometimes, maybe, but eh. I think on the first three missions of the Terran campaign in either game and they gel fairly well. SC2 just has a more elaborate presentation because the technology is better.

You must be young. Tech=/=tone. Graphics matter little at all to what I'm talking about. It's not the game's look that's the problem (although I have problems with that), it's the way that the story seems silly and frivolous.


Frankly, I always thought the original Starcraft was limiting to the writers. It was obvious all over the place that Blizzard had more complex stories in mind than the game allowed them to represent, topics and events are constantly referred to that are not explained in the game. And that does help establish the universe, that there's a larger story going on than just what we see, but it also results in stuff like the protoss campaign. The abundance of novels (don't complain, I'm just saying) is proof that they have more story in mind than what was in the original game. A story like the Dark Templar Saga could not be told in a mission chain like the original Starcraft's, not without heavily contorting it to fit a gameplay structure.

SC2, now, with its different presentation and engine, is allowing them to show us that story. You *could* tell the DT Saga story in SC2's system, heck, Zeratul's crystal to Raynor is pretty much his take on Zamara giving Jake memories. I guess though, now that Blizzard can show off the SC universe in the detail they want, fans don't like it anymore?

You must be young. Before I continue, allow me to say that you should enjoy SC2 as much as you like, if it's to your taste. However, be a sweet young gentleman and allow this old fogey at heart to explain what she means.

Graphics and technology mean nothing to storytelling.

I grew up in the days of NES/SNES, and in those times there was of course limited technology. And better storytelling. Because of game limitations, the developers were forced to leave many things to the player's imagination. It worked out great. For example, the developers of Donkey Kong Country 2 silently told the story of Diddy and Dixie by making the world and overworld maps illustrate their journey to rescue Donkey Kong. They start on a boat, circle around a volcano, and go through a swamp before they begin to ascend the mountain to K. Rool's castle. Without a word of dialogue, the game tells the player of an epic adventure.

My point is this. You don't need advanced technology with pretty pictures to tell a story. I'll take 16-bit backgrounds any day over bland cutscenes with bad dialogue that waste developer time. A storyteller can speak volumes with silence. We also have to remember that this is a game. Games are not generally meant to tell stories. They are there for gameplay. The natural gaps that exist because of the structure of SC1 -- they can't tell a part of a story if it has no relevance to the mission at hand -- means that the fans have a lot of room for imagination and speculation. And in an industry that is all about individual control, that means a lot.

That, and the DT Saga sucked.

[Drake Clawfang]

You must be young. Before I continue, allow me to say that you should enjoy SC2 as much as you like, if it's to your taste. However, be a sweet young gentleman and allow this old fogey at heart to explain what she means.

My mistake, I thought you wanted to discuss the story of the series like a reasonable, rational human being. If you wanted to just be a patronizing self-righteous dickhead, you should have said so and I wouldn't have wasted time replying to you in the first place.

[Turalyon]

I would love to go into the minutaie but given that I'm prone to massive posts and that Grad and Nissa have covered some of it, I don't want to make this any (much) worse. So, I'll just simply address the following quote


I'm not just ranting, it'd be nice if someone can explain to me why these problems are overlooked in the original game but make people angry at the sequel. I love the sequel and original game fine, but the sequel's problems have been present sine Day 1. I guess the original gets a pass thanks to nostalgia goggles? Both the sequel and original have their moments of bad writing, cheesy dialogue, and dumb characters, but also have a lot of humor, fun, and epicness. So, what's up?

For me at any rate, I don't think the majority of critics hinge their arguments on comparing the two. The criticisms of Sc2 are pretty self-evident without the need for such comparison really and the criticisms of Sc2 should therefore be looked at in isolation. This is not to say that Sc1 was flawless since I'm sure there were critics of Sc1 back-in-the-day and like you, I can rip into it just as easily. The reason I don't because it's old hat and what we're really talking about now is Sc2's flaws not Sc1's.

However, given that we're also talking about a sequel, comparisons can't be helped and that's where Nissa's talk about the tone and consistency of it is important. Sc1 sets up a fairly cynical and grounded universe that doesn't align well with Sc2 seemingly more frivolous attitude and unrealistic (in the context of what has been established in this fictional universe that is) turn of events. Characters that had well-defined motivations that could've been viewed separately from plot mechanics/concerns or the usual trappings/tropes of a sci-fi universe became seemingly simplistic and rote due to such motivations being more obviously trapped/tied up by those very things I mentioned.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if I remember correctly Drake, you once made a parody of Sc1 by spinning all those events into a humourous light by exposing the foibles and narative conceits of the story, right? I loved it because some of those jabs were legitimate even though they were not obviously apparent. In contrast, a parody of Sc2's events on the other hand would be unnecessary since most of it's conceits and foibles are very obvious/undisguised from the get-go (ie: the artifact might as well as be called "generic plot device" as far as I'm concerned) and yet we are supposed to take such things seriously, as opposed to lauighing at them. What you get is cognitive dissonance.

It would've been fine if such surreality was commonplace beforehand in Sc1 thereby giving some sort of consistency, but it largely wasn't. Though saying that now, BW did start to "stretching" things toward that direction which leads to my last point about the argument that Sc1 and Sc2 are roughly the same so therefore one shouldn't complain. That argument is unusual in that it doesn't invalidate criticism like Grad said with his example of Transformers films (I too enjoy the visceral nature of it but that doesn't stop me from lambasting the travesty of it's storytelling - if one can call it that). It is also somewhat reductive and harmful since it just encourages future stories to be more lazily inspired than anything else. The perspective shift to not that "Sc2 is worse" but "Sc2 is bad because Sc1 is bad" is not very different since it still has the connotation that Sc2 is bad in general. To me, that one should be content with that not changing in a sequel for the better after 12 years kind of contrasts unfavourably to one just simply wanting things being better, which is what the criticism is largely about (and not just focusing on negatives for the sake of it as others would try to misunderstand it to be).

[Drake Clawfang]

Sc1 sets up a fairly cynical and grounded universe that doesn't align well with Sc2 seemingly more frivolous attitude and unrealistic (in the context of what has been established in this fictional universe that is) turn of events. Characters that had well-defined motivations that could've been viewed separately from plot mechanics/concerns or the usual trappings/tropes of a sci-fi universe became seemingly simplistic and rote due to such motivations being more obviously trapped/tied up by those very things I mentioned.

Could you elaborate?


Correct me if I'm wrong, but if I remember correctly Drake, you once made a parody of Sc1 by spinning all those events into a humourous light by exposing the foibles and narative conceits of the story, right? I loved it because some of those jabs were legitimate even though they were not obviously apparent. In contrast, a parody of Sc2's events on the other hand would be unnecessary since most of it's conceits and foibles are very obvious/undisguised from the get-go (ie: the artifact might as well as be called "generic plot device" as far as I'm concerned) and yet we are supposed to take such things seriously, as opposed to lauighing at them. What you get is cognitive dissonance.

I did, and did parodies of SC2, as well. I found it hilarious that several people didn't care for my mocking the plot holes, contrivances, and skewed characterization of the original game, then applauded me for doing the same with the sequel.

My personal favorite joke for the Ep I parody, which was not mentioned in the OP: Raynor and Kerrigan pretty much laugh at the idea of Duke being shot down behind zerg lines and grumble about being sent to rescue him, then the very next mission Kerrigan is like "no one deserves to have the zerg unleashed on them". True, there is a difference there in that the entire planet will be overrun and not just the Confederates, but it's still a very hollow and hypocritical sentiment.


It is also somewhat reductive and harmful since it just encourages future stories to be more lazily inspired than anything else.

That's true, and SC1's story having problems does not automatically excuse SC2 from having the same. However, having taken a closer look at SC1, and read most of the novels for the series that came before SC2, I'm of the opinion this is just the sort of universe it is and the story Starcraft wants to tell, and I go with that. If it wants to be cheesy and cliche, fine, I'll take it for what it is. It's like Yugioh in that sense - sure, it's stupid when compared to other things, fighting wars with playing cards, but internally that's just how the franchise is, and either that works for you or doesn't.


The perspective shift to not that "Sc2 is worse" but "Sc2 is bad because Sc1 is bad" is not very different since it still has the connotation that Sc2 is bad in general. To me, that one should be content with that not changing in a sequel for the better after 12 years kind of contrasts unfavourably to one just simply wanting things being better, which is what the criticism is largely about (and not just focusing on negatives for the sake of it as others would try to misunderstand it to be).

Fair enough. However, SC2 does try to take itself seriously at times, and it is telling a big story in its own right. In addition to the overarcing plot of the xel'naga returning and the hybrids, we have Kerrigan's character arc where she becomes a shifty but more heroic Queen of Blades, we're going to see Artanis trying to reunite the protoss who were already internally barely held together, the fall of Arcturus, Raynor's struggle between idealism and cynicism, and Valerian Mengsk's development from an upstart snot to a noble emperor.

The problem with SC2's story is more the execution than the concepts. The developers have tried to be more serious, to tell a larger and more epic story. They've just botched it. For instance, Kerrigan in HotS - nix the amnesia subplot in favor of "the zerg mutagen shifted her personality, now that she's free she's her own person again" (this is canonically established by her original infestation and Stukov), and reword some of the more painful dialogue, and I think her character arc is perfectly serviceable. A woman with nothing left in her life but vengeance turns her back on redemption to pursue it, to give herself purpose again, but when there is hope for she begins to pull back, and in the spirit of the original SC1 zerg, recognizes the race is not evil, it was her, and they have the potential to be something better than the mindless horde of alien locusts, if she can lead them to it.

Valerian, I genuinely like the kid, like I said he grows from an arrogant upstart snot in WoL to a proper emperor in HotS.

Of course, that the concepts are solid does not change the fact the execution is bad. But there is still good stuff in SC2's story, and some of the ideas are still good even if they weren't carried out as good as they should have been.

If there's something I want people to take away from reading this discussion it's this - "yeah, SC2's story has problems. But it still has its great moments, and the original game wasn't as good in the story department as a lot of people remember, anyway."

[The_Blade]

I no longer blame the success/failure of these stories on the games themselves. I believe the most relevant factor is context.

StarCraft and BW were released during the golden age of RTS games. PC gamers at the time were exclusively geeks, outcasts of society, or children growing up with a computer. The cost of making a game was at its lowest for PC platforms, while consoles were still recovering from the crash of the late 80s. The rule of cool was dominant and devs were aware of this. Ideas and tones could be pitched into games to give them flavor rather than coherence. Games were created with incomplete content, because technology was limited. (All hail StarCraft's green text cinematics). The experience was therefore more like reading a book than watching a movie.

Then we had 10-12 years to mature the StarCraft universe as a community effort. IMO, Blizzards lack of intervention made communities so rich back during their classic age. E-sports and modding surfaced out of the need to create content that was just not there.

Then SC2 came into existence on top of the idea we created for StarCraft, which was a beautiful figment of our imagination but nothing more. This idea was a careful selection of the best content designed purely out of passion. Ideas were developed completely and only the best were remembered, as well. Project Revolution, Legacy of the Confederation, and many other projects were squashed by the marketed giant SC2. After seeing how their content and effort were scrapped, a lot of people left. Others grew out of mapping or content creation. The new experience was just a one way relationship for many modern PC gamers. The story is not flexible, because there are no holes left by the rest of the departments or technology.

But the thing that hurts the most is the 7 years of marketing and support that SC2 will have from Blizzard, until LotV's hype ends. Years that will create a really large shadow from were mods can't show themselves. Without support, moders will work for indie industries rather than spend the same time on a universe with no rewards or profit. A few heroes remain, like Gradius. There's still a general interest in StarCraft; but common sense says StarCraft Universe won't come out till we have a Blizzard marketplace... Only after this two conditions meet will the universe grow by community effort again, or we will be the last RTS giant.

[Nissa]

My mistake, I thought you wanted to discuss the story of the series like a reasonable, rational human being. If you wanted to just be a patronizing self-righteous dickhead, you should have said so and I wouldn't have wasted time replying to you in the first place.

...I was attempting to be humorous, because I'm an old fogey at heart. I'm sorry if it looked patronizing, but that wasn't my intent. All I meant was that younger people tend to think graphics are more important. It's just sort of the nature of the beast these days.

[ragnarok]

...I was attempting to be humorous, because I'm an old fogey at heart. I'm sorry if it looked patronizing, but that wasn't my intent. All I meant was that younger people tend to think graphics are more important. It's just sort of the nature of the beast these days.

That's actually what Blizzard is playing at, thinking the new community would be extremely ignorant. Even today I still didn't hate HotS's story so much, but there were serious plot hole problems, some of which COULD have been explained if Blizzard had just been less lazy.

[sandwich_bird]

I back Grad's post. Just wanted to add that I never actually read the manual and in fact, the first time I ever finished the campaign was on the N64 and there are no cinematics on the N64(not that this changes anything much). Even then, I thought it was easily understandable what the Protoss were about without having the game spell it out for you.

[ragnarok]

I back Grad's post. Just wanted to add that I never actually read the manual and in fact, the first time I ever finished the campaign was on the N64 and there are no cinematics on the N64(not that this changes anything much). Even then, I thought it was easily understandable what the Protoss were about without having the game spell it out for you.

Wait the N64 didn't have cinematics? I didn't know that....

[Drake Clawfang]

All I meant was that younger people tend to think graphics are more important. It's just sort of the nature of the beast these days.

And at no point did I say so. SC2's advantage in storytelling is the presentation. Original SC was "Watch a mission briefing, go play the mission, maybe some people talk during the mission." Really, we didn't get any in-mission cutscenes, in what you could call a cutscene, until Brood War. Stuff like the UED establishing their base camp on Aiur, or Artanis and Zeratul parleying with Aldaris, the original campaign didn't have anything like that - the most advanced it got was Aldaris and then Zeratul and their forces warping in at the end of The Trial of Tassadar. That was just the limitations of the game engine and the editor they had to work with, and even fan made map editors like SCM Draft can only push it so much. That's why hypertriggers are a thing, to improve trigger response time beyond the norm.

SC2, there's tons of cutscenes, between missions and in them, you can talk to characters outside of missions, you often get mementos of missions in your base, the missions you do impact how your army is formed, and so forth. The story can be told in greater detail than the original game. That's why I would love a full remake of the original SC and Brood War for SC2, providing they stay faithful to it. We can incorporate so much of this bigger story they've created into the games in ways the original game didn't have the capacity to do. What if we actually saw Raynor and Kerrigan interacting regularly to build up their romance, or could talk to Fenix and Aldaris and get more history on their relationships with Artanis and Tassadar and what they think of him.

Mission 3-2 "Briefing"

Artanis: Do you think we can trust Tassadar?
Fenix: Tassadar has saved my life many times in past battles, and I his. I see no reason now to question his integrity.
Artanis: Yet, he has allied with the dark templar. That is cause for concern.
Fenix: Perhaps. I place my faith in my own observations, not in ancient legends. When these dark templar strike at us, then I shall be concerned.

It isn't much, but imagine conversations like that across the whole campaign. I'd like that.

However, strictly speaking, yes, processing power, of which graphics are a part, can help tell the story better. The Overmind in SC1 was just a special building the size of a command center. Overmind in SC2 takes up half the map with its corpse laying in a crater obscured by mist with Overlords milling about. It's an eerie image and you feel like you're disturbing some ancient ghost walking around its corpse, and it gives a sense of size and power that original 4x3 building never did. Another good example is the laser drill, the original game couldn't have a weapon like that blasting a giant laser beam across the map to your objective. Flash can be its own type of substance, when done correctly and in proper doses, and the more advanced game engine allows more flexibility in that.

[KaiserStratosTygo]

"Mengsk also said the Confederates are breeding the zerg. I presumed he was lying about the use of the emitters to make them angrier so they'd go along with his plans a while longer."

Why does everyone harp on this? people expect this chracter to already know what the Zerg are and what they do based on the Audience's prior knowledge?

He made a plausible (false, but still plausible) sounding theory with the information he was given, this is actually brilliant, because unlike many other games, this character has a real reaction to something like this.

"Holy fuck what the hell is going on? wait.. they're in pens, maybe their BREEDING THEM!"

Instead of conveniently theorizing what they actually are:

"Holy fuck what the hell is going on? wait... they must be controlled by a giant brainlike thing and are here to nom nom our ghost operatives to fight those Protoss and nom them too!"

It's a small detail, but VERY important and far too often overlooked.

" the first time I ever finished the campaign was on the N64 and there are no cinematics on the N64(not that this changes anything much). Even then, I thought it was easily understandable what the Protoss were about without having the game spell it out for you.

SAME.

I grew up on that console, SC64 was my most treasured video game before my dad pawned it around 13 years ago :(


Wait the N64 didn't have cinematics? I didn't know that....

Yeah, they had still images because the Cartridge couldn't hold the graphical data aside from the Intro sequence.

Go watch a couple SC64 videos to see what I mean.

The game itself's graphics (for an already simple graphically) game was toned down, and even a few of the missions were made smaller because of Cart constraints (I have a playthrough of the Protoss Campaign and Mission 10 is several times smaller than on the PC)

[Drake Clawfang]

people expect this chracter to already know what the Zerg are and what they do based on the Audience's prior knowledge?

No, we don't. Just saying, Arcturus was wrong about that and yes, may have lied about it if he knew about the zerg as far back as he did.

Actually, that makes me question something else. How the heck did Zeratul find out about the cerebrates? And how did he know that the void energies of the dark templar could permanently kill them? Okay, let's presume Zasz was a test and he didn't know for sure; then where did he have the idea to try?

[Nissa]

And at no point did I say so. SC2's advantage in storytelling is the presentation.

Here we go, this is the crux of the thing. What I'm saying is that SC2's disadvantage is the presentation. Because the original had limited graphical capabilities, it was essentially forced to have better storytelling to make up for the visuals. Now that modern computers are graphical powerhouses, it is now possible for something to look good in lieu of making any sense -- "Chris, hurry up and finish the story already so we can get to the storyboards and the programming already!"

For example, take a good look at the scene in WoL where Zeratul and Kerrigan are talking and fighting. Nothing they're saying is emotionally interesting or makes any sense. They're just saying extremely melodramatic nothing lines about stuff the player knows nothing about at that point while Blizzard shows off their programmers' work.

Sandwich, you're amazing. I tried to play the 64 version once, and I just couldn't get over the awkward controller.

[Drake Clawfang]

Here we go, this is the crux of the thing. What I'm saying is that SC2's disadvantage is the presentation.

Gonna stop ya right there, because you're flat wrong. Enhanced presentation does not disclude good story, otherwise all modern games would have terrible stories. The writers slacking on story and compensating with pretty graphics is a problem to be blamed on the writers, not the graphics.

Either way though, I really doubt the writers are half-assing things thinking "meh, the graphics will look cool." This is another thing that bugs me. Blizzard is spending more than a decade, not to mention millions of manhours and dollars, creating this game that for better or worse will have a huge impact on the company and their individual careers. Even though some may not like the result, I promise you, "they aren't trying" doesn't factor into this.


Nothing they're saying is emotionally interesting or makes any sense.

I know the feeling.



Kerrigan: Once again, I grow tired of slaughtering your servants. Have the mighty Templar lost their infallible courage?
Zeratul: Well spoken, Concubine of the Zerg. But though we strike at you from the shadows, do not think that we lack the courage to stand in the light. You would do well to abandon this attack.
Kerrigan: You seem overconfident of your abilities, dark one. I am no helpless Cerebrate to be assailed under cover of darkness. I am the Queen of Blades, and my stare alone would reduce you to ashes. You and your ilk cease to amuse me. Prepare yourself for oblivion's embrace.

BTW, it always made me raise an eyebrow a bit that Kerrigan just pulls that title for herself out of thin air and everyone goes with it to the point it's synonymous with her name. Did she spend time on this, is there some significance to the title other than it just sounds cool?

"I am no helpless Cerebrate to be assailed under cover of darkness. I am Princess Pettycoat, and... what? My father called me that as a child. I like that name."

[ragnarok]

Yeah, they had still images because the Cartridge couldn't hold the graphical data aside from the Intro sequence.

Go watch a couple SC64 videos to see what I mean.

The game itself's graphics (for an already simple graphically) game was toned down, and even a few of the missions were made smaller because of Cart constraints (I have a playthrough of the Protoss Campaign and Mission 10 is several times smaller than on the PC)

Figures. You know when they said it'd come out for the N64 back then, I thought Blizzard was nuts. Very few RTS games can work on a console, as far as I knew, back then....

[Turalyon]

Could you elaborate?

Which part? About how the turn of events differs? In Rebel Yell, I understand why Raynor does what he does throughout all his appearances and what he's capable of doing and not doing. He's limited by what the world gives him - he's given lemons, he tries to make lemonade. In WoL, Raynor can exact multiple victories whilst apparently being drunk and depressed throughout it all (or not - it's hard to tell) because he's just also apparently the best commander since like forever. His story in WoL is more or less aimless until the very end until Valerian tells him about the truth about the artifacts and gets his final mission, which coincidentally happens to also help him alleviate him of his depression if he succeeds. The man can do anything because the plot just has him seemingly do so for no regards to any sort of limitations to ground the fiction.


I found it hilarious that several people didn't care for my mocking the plot holes, contrivances, and skewed characterization of the original game, then applauded me for doing the same with the sequel.

Are you sure they were the exact same people? For me, I didn't find your Sc2 parody to be as funny as the first one since the "jokes" were already on display in what we got with WoL. :p


My personal favorite joke for the Ep I parody, which was not mentioned in the OP: Raynor and Kerrigan pretty much laugh at the idea of Duke being shot down behind zerg lines and grumble about being sent to rescue him, then the very next mission Kerrigan is like "no one deserves to have the zerg unleashed on them". True, there is a difference there in that the entire planet will be overrun and not just the Confederates, but it's still a very hollow and hypocritical sentiment.

Oh yeah, I have raised the point of how potentially morally inconsistent Kerrigan and Raynor are before. I mean, they accept using a weapon of mass destruction that will have confirmed casualties in one case but not in another. Truth be told though, everyone is morally inconsistent to some degree and this doesn't necessarily make it a "bad thing" in terms of narrative construction, it's just something interesting to think about.


That's true, and SC1's story having problems does not automatically excuse SC2 from having the same. However, having taken a closer look at SC1, and read most of the novels for the series that came before SC2, I'm of the opinion this is just the sort of universe it is and the story Starcraft wants to tell, and I go with that.

You know, I get this. My POV is from not having read the EU such that my primary guide for what the universe is was the original game and manual. As such, there's quite marked difference between Sc1 and Sc2. It's funny though because Gradius has read up on the lore and should theoretically be inured to the plentiful and obvious contrivances that are on display now in that universe and yet he rails against it. We can't say he didn't read the EU wrong. Maybe it is just that the quality of writing itself is poor.


Fair enough. However, SC2 does try to take itself seriously at times, and it is telling a big story in its own right. In addition to the overarcing plot of the xel'naga returning and the hybrids, we have Kerrigan's character arc where she becomes a shifty but more heroic Queen of Blades, we're going to see Artanis trying to reunite the protoss who were already internally barely held together, the fall of Arcturus, Raynor's struggle between idealism and cynicism, and Valerian Mengsk's development from an upstart snot to a noble emperor.

My main contention with the story is not really about the content but rather in how it's constructed/delivered by the writers and received by the viewer. I actually don't mind that Kerrigan got deinfested and then reinfested again or that Raynor actually had an all-consuming love with Kerrigan for all-time no matter what. It's how these things are presented to us and subsequently, whether it resonates or not based on how it was presented (or not presented as the case may be).

I don't doubt the story is large or potentially serious, but I've never really gotten the importance of the stories so far in Sc2. The focus on Raynor and Kerrigan on wholly Terran matters (HotS only really use the Zerg as a backdrop to Kerrigan's Terran focused matters) for two-thirds of a trilogy that is supposed to be about the Hybrids is somewhat jarring since the story so far has been about Terran stuff and not Hybrids. So, why should I even care about the Protoss or Hybrids? It's because the game wants us to! That's not how a well crafted story works and as a result, the whole trilogy seems like an unfocused mish-mash of disconnected stories of stuff happening.


No, we don't. Just saying, Arcturus was wrong about that and yes, may have lied about it if he knew about the zerg as far back as he did.

I've always taken that quote from Mengsk as him self-justifying his actions against the Confeds and that he's not lying since he doesn't really know the whole story but constructing a reasonable narrative in his mind based on the information at hand.


How the heck did Zeratul find out about the cerebrates? And how did he know that the void energies of the dark templar could permanently kill them? Okay, let's presume Zasz was a test and he didn't know for sure; then where did he have the idea to try?

I assume the Nerazim are good at reconnaisance and intelligence gathering in addition to their capabilities as assassin (stealth has a lot of functions afterall), so it couldn't be that hard for them to discover a cerebrate on the world the Zerg set up as their main base in the sector. They did get called there by Kerrigan's unwitting psychic emanations afterall. Plus, Dark Templar are known for being assassins - it's a no-brainer that they would try to attempt such strike against the Zerg if they could.

As to whether they knew Dark Templar could kill cerebrates, I throw an inverted question back at you. Why would you presume that the Protoss would know that ordinary assassination attempts not utilising Dark Templar would fail? Answer is, you can't! They didn't know until they tried. The fact that they had Dark templar, who excel at assassinations, and had no other recourse of assaulting them conventionally having Tassadar hiding on Char and not receiving ongoing assistance from Aiur, probably prompted them to try it.

[Drake Clawfang]

Which part? About how the turn of events differs? In Rebel Yell, I understand why Raynor does what he does throughout all his appearances and what he's capable of doing and not doing. He's limited by what the world gives him - he's given lemons, he tries to make lemonade. In WoL, Raynor can exact multiple victories whilst apparently being drunk and depressed throughout it all (or not - it's hard to tell) because he's just also apparently the best commander since like forever. His story in WoL is more or less aimless until the very end until Valerian tells him about the truth about the artifacts and gets his final mission, which coincidentally happens to also help him alleviate him of his depression if he succeeds. The man can do anything because the plot just has him seemingly do so for no regards to any sort of limitations to ground the fiction.

Fair enough. The Hanson and Tosh missions, while fine subplots, subtract from focus on the Horner and Tychus plots, where the real meat of the plot is.

I always thought that they should have given you less than 200 supply for the campaign, so the player has to rely on small but effective squads to conduct missions, and maybe hiring mercenaries increases your max supply a bit. Or perhaps certain missions reward more credits than others to give players incentive to do them earlier. Blizzard really didn't get as creative as they could have with the campaign.


You know, I get this. My POV is from not having read the EU such that my primary guide for what the universe is was the original game and manual. As such, there's quite marked difference between Sc1 and Sc2. It's funny though because Gradius has read up on the lore and should theoretically be inured to the plentiful and obvious contrivances that are on display now in that universe and yet he rails against it. We can't say he didn't read the EU wrong. Maybe it is just that the quality of writing itself is poor.

Well, I've been writing mission pages for the original game at SC wiki, and dug out Queen of Blades a bit to remind myself how the Tassadar-Zeratul-Raynor's dynamic worked there. Zeratul is just as melodramatic as in SC2, refusing to give straight answers to folks and talking them into realizations instead, because he thinks people trust information they deduce on their own more than what other people tell them outright. Then of course this bit to Kerrigan is right at home in SC2's script.

"Your coming has been foretold... You are part of the culmination. But not the end of it. You shall show the way, the path that must be taken, the realigning of old truths no longer valid. Yours is not the hand, but your very existence provides necessary instruction."


My main contention with the story is not really about the content but rather in how it's constructed/delivered by the writers and received by the viewer. I actually don't mind that Kerrigan got deinfested and then reinfested again or that Raynor actually had an all-consuming love with Kerrigan for all-time no matter what. It's how these things are presented to us and subsequently, whether it resonates or not based on how it was presented (or not presented as the case may be).

Fair enough.


I don't doubt the story is large or potentially serious, but I've never really gotten the importance of the stories so far in Sc2. The focus on Raynor and Kerrigan on wholly Terran matters (HotS only really use the Zerg as a backdrop to Kerrigan's Terran focused matters) for two-thirds of a trilogy that is supposed to be about the Hybrids is somewhat jarring since the story so far has been about Terran stuff and not Hybrids. So, why should I even care about the Protoss or Hybrids? It's because the game wants us to! That's not how a well crafted story works and as a result, the whole trilogy seems like an unfocused mish-mash of disconnected stories of stuff happening.

True, the trilogy has spent a lot of time with the Dominion. But there's been hidden stuff to. No hybrids in WoL, but we have the hidden mission and the Zeratul campaign to build up "they're coming, and not in a few years, more like next week." HotS actually scaled it back, really, as I type this post. Sure, we got more info on Narud/Duran, but outside that mission chain yeah, all Dominion stuff. In retrospect, the WoO prologue with Kerrigan attacking a Moebius outpost should have been incorporated into HotS.

[KaiserStratosTygo]

Figures. You know when they said it'd come out for the N64 back then, I thought Blizzard was nuts. Very few RTS games can work on a console, as far as I knew, back then....

Well I was a small child at the time, having only played WarCraft 1 and 2 before that, so when my father bought the game for SC64 I was glued to the screen, despite what many say, I felt the controller worked well enough for the genre.

[ragnarok]

Well I was a small child at the time, having only played WarCraft 1 and 2 before that, so when my father bought the game for SC64 I was glued to the screen, despite what many say, I felt the controller worked well enough for the genre.

I see. I wasn't too much older than you back then anyway, though I never got it for the N64, I thought it wouldn't have worked.

[Aldrius]

I know the feeling.



BTW, it always made me raise an eyebrow a bit that Kerrigan just pulls that title for herself out of thin air and everyone goes with it to the point it's synonymous with her name. Did she spend time on this, is there some significance to the title other than it just sounds cool?

"I am no helpless Cerebrate to be assailed under cover of darkness. I am Princess Pettycoat, and... what? My father called me that as a child. I like that name."

That's not true, though.

That scene makes perfect sense. Kerrigan is calling Zeratul a coward and he's saying that he's not afraid to face her. Then Kerrigan boasts that she's not a helpless sack of flesh who's going to roll over and die but "The all-powerful QUEEN OF BLADES!" who will be no victim. It's an incredibly important character-defining moment for both of them. The "Queen of Blades" title is meant to be self-empowering, it's her new identity. She's been a helpless victim and puppet her whole life and now she's taking control. It's why anybody gives themselves a title. To let other people know to fear them, or respect them, or go to them if they need help. And that's why you'd tell it to your enemies.

The Wings of Liberty scene is a bunch of prophetic nonsense and foreshadowing with half-answers for everything. It literally explains nothing about the plot or what Zeratul and Kerrigan actually want. I guess the insinuation -- which is not very well displayed or showcased -- is that Kerrigan feels there's no hope, and she'll embrace death and destruction when it comes to claim her while Zeratul will look for a solution.

But that doesn't even really fit Zeratul's character anyway, and it doesn't fit Kerrigan's character. Kerrigan is a fighter. Kerrigan's whole motivation is control, power and self-assurance. She would be more determined than anyone to avert the catastrophe of the rising evil. While Zeratul is a pretty bleak guy. It just showcases a really fundamental lack of understanding when it comes to these characters.

[ragnarok]

The Wings of Liberty scene is a bunch of prophetic nonsense and foreshadowing with half-answers for everything. It literally explains nothing about the plot or what Zeratul and Kerrigan actually want. I guess the insinuation -- which is not very well displayed or showcased -- is that Kerrigan feels there's no hope, and she'll embrace death and destruction when it comes to claim her while Zeratul will look for a solution.


That was Blizzard's problem for trying to keep things a mystery, and ended up not explaining anything in WoL, not that we wanted anyways.

[Turalyon]

The Hanson and Tosh missions, while fine subplots, subtract from focus on the Horner and Tychus plots, where the real meat of the plot is.

It's somewhat debatable that Horner's subplot is the "meat" of WoL's story since like the Hanson and Tosh subplots, it doesn't have any real bearing on how the the third act of WoL's story unfolds. Sure, it features stuff about Mengsk, the Dominion and is seemingly important (only because it has more direct ties to the established mythology but nothing really approaching a storyline in the current installment) but one can see WoL's story only consisting of Tychus' subplot and still have it make complete sense, really. The culmination of Horner's plot (Media Blitz) has as much relevance to the final third act of WoL as it does for the last missions of Hanson and Tosh. I see you've left out Zeratul's plot, which is supposedly what the whole trilogy is about (and therefore even more seemingly important arguably), and yet that is somehow relegated to nothing as well.

What we're left with is Tychus' macguffin hunt to tie Raynor's story of redemption in WoL and there's problems because there's connection between those two things until the very end. You know, at first I hadn't realised that this (Raynor's redemption) was WoL's story given how many disparate elements there were and how the mission structure made the "middle act" of WoL somewhat non-existent. When Valerian came in and the artifacts purpose were revealed, I thought "Here we go, the story is finally going to start!" only to realise that this was actually the last act of WoL's story! In contrast, HotS narrative structure is much cleaner with a well-defined start-middle-end - it's just that the story being told in HotS wasn't really worth being told, though that's another complete different thing entirely from what I just said....


I always thought that they should have given you less than 200 supply for the campaign, so the player has to rely on small but effective squads to conduct missions, and maybe hiring mercenaries increases your max supply a bit. Or perhaps certain missions reward more credits than others to give players incentive to do them earlier. Blizzard really didn't get as creative as they could have with the campaign.

The gameplay mechanics were fine since I usually don't think of those when it comes to story and narrative. They got this part right, I think. The gameplay side of things was fun and very creative to me. Sure, they could've served the story more but, you know, inherent gameplay/story segregation kinda makes it hard to strike that balance.


Zeratul is just as melodramatic as in SC2, refusing to give straight answers to folks and talking them into realizations instead, because he thinks people trust information they deduce on their own more than what other people tell them outright.

Oh, don't get me wrong, Zeratul is melodramatic. There's no denying that. It's just that he's more of a poet and has a certain quality to him in Sc1 unlike his Sc2 counterpart. The writing is what distinguishes it.


True, the trilogy has spent a lot of time with the Dominion.

Wasn't referring to a specific faction per se when I said that the focus has been on Terran matters - I meant it more generically, as in "Human matters".


But there's been hidden stuff to. No hybrids in WoL, but we have the hidden mission and the Zeratul campaign to build up "they're coming, and not in a few years, more like next week." HotS actually scaled it back, really, as I type this post. Sure, we got more info on Narud/Duran, but outside that mission chain yeah, all Dominion stuff. In retrospect, the WoO prologue with Kerrigan attacking a Moebius outpost should have been incorporated into HotS.

I guess that's part of the problem - the Hybrid stuff is kinda too under the radar and hidden. It's been overshadowed by the exploits of specific humans that bare no relevance to them. I commented on this being a potential problem even before HotS came out - that all this human stuff was dominating two-thirds of the trilogy when I thought the idea for Sc2 was ostensibly about Hybrids/Xel'Naga. I even went as far as outlining how the storyline in HotS would have to finish off the human stuff by the first third/half and transition onto the Hybrid stuff if they didn't want to create a distinct narrative whiplash. What we did get with HotS now makes that concern a reality. People might expect Sc2 to be about "human matters" based on the first two thirds, which would make LotV focus on Protoss and Hybrids sort of an "odd duckling". On the otherhand, people are celebrating that LotV is finally getting to what they think is the main story. This does not bode well for the trilogy as a whole because it's like my assessment of WoL as standalone - it's (WoL and the Sc2 trilogy as a whole) starting and middle acts are floating around lacking coherence and then, when things actually "start", it's actually the last the act and that's it! This then leads to one considering whether it was worth a three-part act/trilogy when two-thirds of it was really unnecessary in the first place.

[Drake Clawfang]

It's somewhat debatable that Horner's subplot is the "meat" of WoL's story since like the Hanson and Tosh subplots, it doesn't have any real bearing on how the the third act of WoL's story unfolds. Sure, it features stuff about Mengsk, the Dominion and is seemingly important (only because it has more direct ties to the established mythology but nothing really approaching a storyline in the current installment) but one can see WoL's story only consisting of Tychus' subplot and still have it make complete sense, really. The culmination of Horner's plot (Media Blitz) has as much relevance to the final third act of WoL as it does for the last missions of Hanson and Tosh. I see you've left out Zeratul's plot, which is supposedly what the whole trilogy is about (and therefore even more seemingly important arguably), and yet that is somehow relegated to nothing as well.

True. I found it odd HotS has not even a token mention of Media Blitz. Just have Valerian go like "many civilians have left Korhal after my father's hand in the Confederacy's destruction was revealed, and military loyalty is at an all-time low. If the zerg invade, I doubt as many will rally to the defense as would have before."


What we're left with is Tychus' macguffin hunt to tie Raynor's story of redemption in WoL and there's problems because there's connection between those two things until the very end. You know, at first I hadn't realised that this (Raynor's redemption) was WoL's story given how many disparate elements there were and how the mission structure made the "middle act" of WoL somewhat non-existent. When Valerian came in and the artifacts purpose were revealed, I thought "Here we go, the story is finally going to start!" only to realise that this was actually the last act of WoL's story! In contrast, HotS narrative structure is much cleaner with a well-defined start-middle-end - it's just that the story being told in HotS wasn't really worth being told, though that's another complete different thing entirely from what I just said....

That's very true, part of the disjointed story is because you're free to do the missions in order. HotS gives small mission chains each with a self-contained story that you commit to once you choose them.


The gameplay mechanics were fine since I usually don't think of those when it comes to story and narrative. They got this part right, I think. The gameplay side of things was fun and very creative to me. Sure, they could've served the story more but, you know, inherent gameplay/story segregation kinda makes it hard to strike that balance.

Oh definitely, the campaign's gameplay is far superior to SC1's. It's just that outside the missions themselves, in their impact in the overarcing campaign, they got formulaic. Do a mission, win a few credits, collect some relics or zerg remains and get some research points, go spend your goodies.

I remember when they were demoing the campaign during development, Blizzard told us we'd be able to buy new units as we liked instead of getting them automatically with a new mission, and certain missions may be more difficult but have greater rewards. Stuff like that would generate more strategy to how we played things instead of just "okay, which mission gives me the unit/research I want next?"


Oh, don't get me wrong, Zeratul is melodramatic. There's no denying that. It's just that he's more of a poet and has a certain quality to him in Sc1 unlike his Sc2 counterpart. The writing is what distinguishes it.

Definitely. The only time I think he dipped into melodrama in SC1 was when he talked to Aldaris. "All that you have built on Aiur is a fleeting dream, and your Conclave shall awaken from it to find themselves in a greater nightmare." But that's pretty restrained compared to SC2.


I guess that's part of the problem - the Hybrid stuff is kinda too under the radar and hidden. It's been overshadowed by the exploits of specific humans that bare no relevance to them. I commented on this being a potential problem even before HotS came out - that all this human stuff was dominating two-thirds of the trilogy when I thought the idea for Sc2 was ostensibly about Hybrids/Xel'Naga. I even went as far as outlining how the storyline in HotS would have to finish off the human stuff by the first third/half and transition onto the Hybrid stuff if they didn't want to create a distinct narrative whiplash. What we did get with HotS now makes that concern a reality. People might expect Sc2 to be about "human matters" based on the first two thirds, which would make LotV focus on Protoss and Hybrids sort of an "odd duckling". On the otherhand, people are celebrating that LotV is finally getting to what they think is the main story. This does not bode well for the trilogy as a whole because it's like my assessment of WoL as standalone - it's (WoL and the Sc2 trilogy as a whole) starting and middle acts are floating around lacking coherence and then, when things actually "start", it's actually the last the act and that's it! This then leads to one considering whether it was worth a three-part act/trilogy when two-thirds of it was really unnecessary in the first place.

Yeah. I think they should have, and it would have been awesome, if we saw Hybrids in the defense of Korhal somehow. We know from Skeigyr and WoL's hidden mission that Mengsk knew Moebius and Narud were making Hybrids. If Narud gave him the Xel'naga artifact, why not a Hybrid or two hiding in the palace? Make that Mengsk's final trump card after the Odin fails.

And BTW, on the matter of SC2's good points, that's one. "Remember this, Raynor? It was nice of your criminal partner to leave it here for me." Cue players wetting themselves as they realize what's coming, knowing very intimately how hard it's going to fuck their shit up. And also neat to see nods to Alpha Squadron and the Sons of Korhal with the Dominion strike forces.

[Robear]

I'm not just ranting, it'd be nice if someone can explain to me why these problems are overlooked in the original game but make people angry at the sequel. I love the sequel and original game fine, but the sequel's problems have been present sine Day 1. I guess the original gets a pass thanks to nostalgia goggles? Both the sequel and original have their moments of bad writing, cheesy dialogue, and dumb characters, but also have a lot of humor, fun, and epicness. So, what's up?

2 reasons. 1, when I first played SC1, I was a kid, I wasn't genre savvy, and I didn't realize how referential or derivative (which ever you want to call it) so many elements were. My main exposure to sci-fi fantasy was Star Wars, and for Starcraft to take a much grittier approach, with its dystopian setting and backstories involving political assassinations, terrorism, brainwashing, betrayals, and cool alien origin stories, to me that was all exceptional worldbuilding.

But, nostalgia goggles aside, there are a lot of choices I like better about SC1 than 2. So in both SC1 and 2, they have this thing going where there's infighting in each faction and no side is totally good (except for Raynor,) yadda yadda. But in SC1, balancing the infighting with the outfighting with the other races is all there is to it. Aldaris could have won, Zasz could have gone rogue, killed Kerrigan and taken over, the Confederacy could have come back, whatever, you didn't know how it would go. And the ultimate consequence of that action would just be that that faction got to rule the sector... until more factionalism tore them down again. The one exception being that the Zerg are slightly worse for the other races to have in charge, what with the insatiable appetite for assimilation.

But then in SC2, now there's prophecies and predestination stuff? And instead of just fighting for power, now, like, galaxies/the universe are at stake? I hate all those 'the whole universe is at stake' plots. Everyone does it and it messes things up, imo. Firefly was neat because you got invested even if what happened to that crew of people didn't matter in the long run, they'd probably just die somewhere. Then for Serenity they made it a saving the galaxy kind of thing and I cared less. The first Robocop was about a single corrupt company/police department/city thing, but for the remake they had to make it so that robocop was the prototype for military robots that would be rolling out across the US and the world, making the whole world at stake.

I guess maybe I'm just more interested how characters and factions interact with each other when they're just weighing outside risks against their own self-interests. Once the entire universe is at stake it's less interesting. Like, yeah, Zeratul's gonna do anything to save the universe because he believes a prophecy. That's less interesting than finding out more about the mysterious Dark Templar who swooped in with his own motivations to kill a cerebrate, and is in opposition to the Protoss you've seen thus far.

I think throwing Earth into SC2 would have been interesting. We're personally invested in Earth, so that could raise the stakes, but a significant faction of the Koprulu terrans might just not care, and the Protoss certainly wouldn't. There would be more interesting tension if for one group it was like "gotta save the world," and some Protoss are like "we understand how it sucks to lose a homeworld, we'll join you!" and others are like "who gives a shit about humans, we need to rebuild." I don't care about the whole galaxy though, that's too big and uninteresting.

[ragnarok]

I think throwing Earth into SC2 would have been interesting. We're personally invested in Earth, so that could raise the stakes, but a significant faction of the Koprulu terrans might just not care, and the Protoss certainly wouldn't. There would be more interesting tension if for one group it was like "gotta save the world," and some Protoss are like "we understand how it sucks to lose a homeworld, we'll join you!" and others are like "who gives a shit about humans, we need to rebuild." I don't care about the whole galaxy though, that's too big and uninteresting.

That can set the stage for SC3. If Amon's assault is for the WHOLE of the galaxy, then Earth too will be attacked. That way, we can find out in SC3 that Amon's assault had reached Earth, and so despite his defeat in LotV, that part of the Milky Way was overrun, allowing the possibility of him to return yet again.

[Drake Clawfang]

I hope the UED is saved for SC3. They *will* be back for sure in terms of lore, and should be bigger and badder than ever; they've had years of freedom to develop and expand without warfare, they know the full magnitude of the threat posed by the K-Sector inhabitants after the loss of their first fleet, and have pockets of UED remnants in the sector that can provide intelligence data and other aid.

Also, I must correct myself, the campaign *does* mention the Dylarian battlecruisers, but it was dummied out. As Duran goes for the psi disruptor on Tarsonis and relays his advice on destroying the hives to neutralize them, there's a dummied out transmission from DuGalle, who says a small force will remain with Duran to aid him, but the bulk of the fleet is moving on to Korhal, and specifically says this is why you don't have battlecruisers in that mission. So, okay, the story specifically mentioned they were busy attacking Korhal and probably got blown up a lot by the time you finished on Tarsonis and caught up. Dunno why this trigger was dummied out but okey dokey.

[Nissa]

That can set the stage for SC3. If Amon's assault is for the WHOLE of the galaxy, then Earth too will be attacked. That way, we can find out in SC3 that Amon's assault had reached Earth, and so despite his defeat in LotV, that part of the Milky Way was overrun, allowing the possibility of him to return yet again.

A really funny/creepy aspect to it could be if K Sector humans managed to contact Earth, only to discover that it's already gone, or subjugated somehow. I like the idea of the K Sector being our last hope.

[Turalyon]

I found it odd HotS has not even a token mention of Media Blitz. Just have Valerian go like "many civilians have left Korhal after my father's hand in the Confederacy's destruction was revealed, and military loyalty is at an all-time low. If the zerg invade, I doubt as many will rally to the defense as would have before."

Given the story that we got in HotS, the reason why Media Blitz does not have any significant lasting ramifications to Mengsk/Dominion is because it would then invalidate Kerrigan's whole arc. The old excuse that Raynor's force is only small and can do nothing to the Dominion is a lame explanation that flies in the face of what he did do at the end of WoL when he defeated the Zerg and the Queen of Blades(!).


Oh definitely, the campaign's gameplay is far superior to SC1's. It's just that outside the missions themselves, in their impact in the overarcing campaign, they got formulaic. Do a mission, win a few credits, collect some relics or zerg remains and get some research points, go spend your goodies.

I remember when they were demoing the campaign during development, Blizzard told us we'd be able to buy new units as we liked instead of getting them automatically with a new mission, and certain missions may be more difficult but have greater rewards. Stuff like that would generate more strategy to how we played things instead of just "okay, which mission gives me the unit/research I want next?"

I can't really complain about this side of things because compared to Sc1, it was a gameplay element that was new and different at the time even though it was probably and eventually viewed as just a superfluous distraction down the track. The irony is that when you separate out the story from the gameplay in Sc1, one can also say that the actual campaign gameplay was just a superfluous distraction, too...


The only time I think he dipped into melodrama in SC1 was when he talked to Aldaris. "All that you have built on Aiur is a fleeting dream, and your Conclave shall awaken from it to find themselves in a greater nightmare." But that's pretty restrained compared to SC2.

Oh, I'm pretty sure the speech about "negative suns" and "entropies of entire realities" fulfills that melodrama quotient, too. It's reminiscent of Roy Batty's final speech in Blade Runner. As I said though, melodrama is not a bad thing if used correctly. In those two cases (Sc1 Zeratul and Roy Batty), the writing was done this way to instil a sense of gravitas and to show their characters as being warrior-poets. Sc2 Zeratul has none of this sense.


Yeah. I think they should have, and it would have been awesome, if we saw Hybrids in the defense of Korhal somehow. We know from Skeigyr and WoL's hidden mission that Mengsk knew Moebius and Narud were making Hybrids. If Narud gave him the Xel'naga artifact, why not a Hybrid or two hiding in the palace? Make that Mengsk's final trump card after the Odin fails.

Yep. Mengsk's ultimate defeat should've been early in HotS (to also give weight to Raynor's efforts against Mengsk in WoL) and whilst she was uninfested (to give her some time to mull over the humanity of murdering someone over revenge whilst being fully human again). The links to the Hybrids would have made for an easy transition for Kerrigan to focus on this new threat and be a better reason for her re-infestation (rather than Mengsk) on a superficial level (the Hybrids are too powerful - hence she needs to power up again) but on a more thematic level (her angst at realising she is still morally warped whilst regaining her "humanity" when she fulfills her revenge drives her to eventually forsake it by choosing/embracing the Zerg wholeheartedly).




2 reasons. 1, when I first played SC1, I was a kid, I wasn't genre savvy, and I didn't realize how referential or derivative (which ever you want to call it) so many elements were. My main exposure to sci-fi fantasy was Star Wars, and for Starcraft to take a much grittier approach, with its dystopian setting and backstories involving political assassinations, terrorism, brainwashing, betrayals, and cool alien origin stories, to me that was all exceptional worldbuilding.

But, nostalgia goggles aside, there are a lot of choices I like better about SC1 than 2. So in both SC1 and 2, they have this thing going where there's infighting in each faction and no side is totally good (except for Raynor,) yadda yadda. But in SC1, balancing the infighting with the outfighting with the other races is all there is to it. Aldaris could have won, Zasz could have gone rogue, killed Kerrigan and taken over, the Confederacy could have come back, whatever, you didn't know how it would go. And the ultimate consequence of that action would just be that that faction got to rule the sector... until more factionalism tore them down again. The one exception being that the Zerg are slightly worse for the other races to have in charge, what with the insatiable appetite for assimilation.

But then in SC2, now there's prophecies and predestination stuff? And instead of just fighting for power, now, like, galaxies/the universe are at stake? I hate all those 'the whole universe is at stake' plots. Everyone does it and it messes things up, imo. Firefly was neat because you got invested even if what happened to that crew of people didn't matter in the long run, they'd probably just die somewhere. Then for Serenity they made it a saving the galaxy kind of thing and I cared less. The first Robocop was about a single corrupt company/police department/city thing, but for the remake they had to make it so that robocop was the prototype for military robots that would be rolling out across the US and the world, making the whole world at stake.

I guess maybe I'm just more interested how characters and factions interact with each other when they're just weighing outside risks against their own self-interests. Once the entire universe is at stake it's less interesting. Like, yeah, Zeratul's gonna do anything to save the universe because he believes a prophecy. That's less interesting than finding out more about the mysterious Dark Templar who swooped in with his own motivations to kill a cerebrate, and is in opposition to the Protoss you've seen thus far.

I think throwing Earth into SC2 would have been interesting. We're personally invested in Earth, so that could raise the stakes, but a significant faction of the Koprulu terrans might just not care, and the Protoss certainly wouldn't. There would be more interesting tension if for one group it was like "gotta save the world," and some Protoss are like "we understand how it sucks to lose a homeworld, we'll join you!" and others are like "who gives a shit about humans, we need to rebuild." I don't care about the whole galaxy though, that's too big and uninteresting.

I would add to Robear's rep given the amount of truth here, but I've already given it elsewhere. I'll just have to settle by quoting it.

I'm probably one of the rare Sc fan who actually does not actually care much for the Hybrid/Xel'Naga focus. This is due in part to what Robear said about the "stake of the entire universe" being less interesting and rote. As to the Serenity film, I think it's largely because Joss Whedon only had one more go at the franchise and had to over-extend to compensate for the cancellation of Firefly as a series. Parts of the film certainly felt like it could've been a culmination of things had there been time to develop the universe beforehand.

As to Earth, I've always felt that the UED were somewhat underserved in BW due in part to being constrained as an expansion. I reckon that if BW had not existed, the bones of BW would have made an even more weighty and interesting sequel were it fleshed out more compared to rather aimless one we have. I'm kind of mixed seeing the UED in Sc3 though since although it would re-introduce some necessary grit and grounding back, it also indicates that the universe is somewhat tired having to recur back to an old enemy again.

[ragnarok]

A really funny/creepy aspect to it could be if K Sector humans managed to contact Earth, only to discover that it's already gone, or subjugated somehow. I like the idea of the K Sector being our last hope.

I'd like that, having it as a lifeboat for humanity....

[Drake Clawfang]

Also remember Blizzard said Doran Routhe was rumored to be up to some other secret experiment. I doubt they would pointedly say that if they didn't have something in mind.

[Drake Clawfang]

As my work on SC Wiki continues, a few more questions come up to discuss :)

- The entire reason the UED were suspicious of the psi disruptor is because it could disrupt the zerg's control of their minions and thus threatened their goal to take control of the zerg via the Overmind... and then they keep it on during Episode VI? How come it shatters Kerrigan's broods but doesn't affect theirs?
- Aren't psi emitters supposed to lure zerg to them? Why do you need to take it to them, then, and how does that allow Kerrigan to control them when she apparently can't do it without the emitter. And the emitters reach across space, I doubt broadcast range was a concern at any point of this.
- If the psi disruptor can apparently be built and reassembled, why not have it moved to Korhal? Then the UED only needs to worry on fortifying two planets instead of three. And let's not forget the airtight security around the damn thing's power generators, or why random zerg were just wandering around the area.
- Kerrigan's "sneak attack" on Duke and Fenix begins with the death of a few random templar and civilians? How about send the swarm down their throats? We saw the devs come up with the valkyrie raid in Emperor's Flight, why not do that again here with an outlying base and that triggers the countdown to alert?
- Episode V ending? "Hi Admiral, I'm totally gonna go plot to overthrow you now. Bye!" and DuGalle lets her run off? Dude isn't that dumb I'd hope.

I'm not going to harp on asking how the psi disruptor actually works or how the UED is able to control the zerg by doping up the Overmind, because SC's science is so silly it cannot be questioned. :p

On more casual conversation, looking at the original game makes me realize how simplistic the first one was in terms of map making. The first SC really had no in-map cutscenes, the closest thing to one is the end of Terran 9, most of the "cutscenes" have units appear and the game pause as speech rolls. Really, vanilla Starcraft is boring from a technical standpoint.

Brood War? Hell, the Escape From Aiur alone has small-scale battles throughout the map as you find wandering zealots. Then you ramp things up to Aldaris' death, the entirety of Emperor's Fall with the ghosts and battlecruisers and Mengsk's escape with Raynor, Emperor's Flight with the opening Valkyrie raid, Raynor attacking the psi disruptor generators. It's like the developers realized "hey, we can do cool shit in-game!" when it slipped their minds in the first game.

[Nissa]

As my work on SC Wiki continues, a few more questions come up to discuss :)

- The entire reason the UED were suspicious of the psi disruptor is because it could disrupt the zerg's control of their minions and thus threatened their goal to take control of the zerg via the Overmind... and then they keep it on during Episode VI? How come it shatters Kerrigan's broods but doesn't affect theirs?

Could you phrase this better? I'm not sure what you're getting at.


- Aren't psi emitters supposed to lure zerg to them? Why do you need to take it to them, then, and how does that allow Kerrigan to control them when she apparently can't do it without the emitter. And the emitters reach across space, I doubt broadcast range was a concern at any point of this.

Yeah, fair enough.


- If the psi disruptor can apparently be built and reassembled, why not have it moved to Korhal? Then the UED only needs to worry on fortifying two planets instead of one. And let's not forget the airtight security around the damn thing's power generators, or why random zerg were just wandering around the area.

Was the disruptor ever really moved?

Eh, I'm pretty lenient on gameplay flaws -- the Zerg wandering around, for example. Actually, now that I think about it, those wandering Zerg might have been a few that the UED were controlling, and it took a close range psi emitter to overcome the effects of the disruptor.


- Kerrigan's "sneak attack" on Duke and Fenix begins with the death of a few random templar and civilians? How about send the swarm down their throats? We saw the devs come up with the valkyrie raid in Emperor's Flight, why not do that again here with an outlying base and that triggers the countdown to alert?

Eh, it wasn't so much of a sneak attack as it was hitting the others before they were ready to fight back. They weren't expecting her to attack them so soon, and they needed that time to prepare. The sneaking aspect was the entrance into the mission, where the Zerg put their foothold on the map.


- Episode V ending? "Hi Admiral, I'm totally gonna go plot to overthrow you now. Bye!" and DuGalle lets her run off? Dude isn't that dumb I'd hope.

DuGalle doesn't have control of the area of that map, he simply has been able to medicate the Overmind -- after all, he spent the entire mission trying to create a presence there. There's no indication he had the resources to pursue Kerrigan at that time. Kerrigan has shown herself willing to taunt her enemies, even if it would be wiser to wait a bit. Like when she revealed Raszagal being under her mind control. The point then was to hurt Zeratul, and the point here is to make DuGalle feel like an idiot for killing Stukov.


I'm not going to harp on asking how the psi disruptor actually works or how the UED is able to control the zerg by doping up the Overmind, because SC's science is so silly it cannot be questioned. :p

There's always room in sci-fi for suspension of disbelief.


On more casual conversation, looking at the original game makes me realize how simplistic the first one was in terms of map making. The first SC really had no in-map cutscenes, the closest thing to one is the end of Terran 9, most of the "cutscenes" have units appear and the game pause as speech rolls. Really, vanilla Starcraft is boring from a technical standpoint.

I prefer no cutscenes to cutscenes with boring story. The fact that they couldn't do "good" visuals means they had to go for a more intelligent plotline. I like the look of SC just fine, particularly since the player can keep going while the talking is going on, for many of the dialogues.

[Drake Clawfang]

Could you phrase this better? I'm not sure what you're getting at.

I mean, the UED keeps the psi disrupter on in Episode VI (before it goes kablooie) after establishing that having it on disrupts the Overmind's control of the zerg, and thus their ability to control the zerg through it. I guess you could handwave it as the UED technically doesn't use the zerg in battle until missions after the disruptor is gone... except then on planets like Korhal the UED have clearly been utilizing the zerg in combat already, so...


Was the disruptor ever really moved?

Yes, from Tarsonis to Braxis.


Actually, now that I think about it, those wandering Zerg might have been a few that the UED were controlling, and it took a close range psi emitter to overcome the effects of the disruptor.

Now, that would be interesting, if the emitter disrupted the disruptor :p. Except the disruptor has been disabled by that point. Okay, maybe the emitter causes some lingering effects to wear off so Kerrigan can control them, but for me that's reaching the realm of "we're not gonna explain how it works; that way it can work however we need it to at the time."


DuGalle doesn't have control of the area of that map, he simply has been able to medicate the Overmind -- after all, he spent the entire mission trying to create a presence there. There's no indication he had the resources to pursue Kerrigan at that time.

True. I'll chalk it up to more "DuGalle being incompetent".

[Nissa]

I mean, the UED keeps the psi disrupter on in Episode VI (before it goes kablooie) after establishing that having it on disrupts the Overmind's control of the zerg, and thus their ability to control the zerg through it. I guess you could handwave it as the UED technically doesn't use the zerg in battle until missions after the disruptor is gone... except then on planets like Korhal the UED have clearly been utilizing the zerg in combat already, so...

Oh, okay, now I get it. Um, I assumed that they used the disruptor to somehow find a way to control the Overmind. If it disrupts the Overmind, then they can manipulate whatever power is used by it, or they needed the disruptor to even get close enough to the Overmind to control it.

Or the Overmind wasn't in range. The Overmind was on Char the whole time, not Tarsonis or Braxis, so by moving the disruptor, they allowed their pet more room to control the swarm.


Yes, from Tarsonis to Braxis.

Wait, wait, brakes. I just realized something. Okay, so Mengsk was looking for the disruptor, according to Kerrigan. If he didn't find it, but it was on Tarsonis all along for the UED to get it, how come Tassadar's burning of Tarsonis at the end of the first Terran missions (there was green text saying he burned it, I think) didn't destroy the disruptor.



Now, that would be interesting, if the emitter disrupted the disruptor :p. Except the disruptor has been disabled by that point. Okay, maybe the emitter causes some lingering effects to wear off so Kerrigan can control them, but for me that's reaching the realm of "we're not gonna explain how it works; that way it can work however we need it to at the time."

I'm not too worried about that sort of thing. That's a gameplay quirk, where suspension of disbelief is stretched so that the level can be played the way the developers want. Since this doesn't have much impact on plot or make characters look stupid, it's alright by me.


True. I'll chalk it up to more "DuGalle being incompetent".

Well, keep in mind that he's an invader on Char, and doesn't have an established base of operations there like he would on a Terran world. He can't run off all willy-nilly against everything threatening him.

[Drake Clawfang]

Or the Overmind wasn't in range. The Overmind was on Char the whole time, not Tarsonis or Braxis, so by moving the disruptor, they allowed their pet more room to control the swarm.

Nope, it was. They mention the disruptor sent the zerg on Char into disarray, which is how the UED was able to land so simply.


Wait, wait, brakes. I just realized something. Okay, so Mengsk was looking for the disruptor, according to Kerrigan. If he didn't find it, but it was on Tarsonis all along for the UED to get it, how come Tassadar's burning of Tarsonis at the end of the first Terran missions (there was green text saying he burned it, I think) didn't destroy the disruptor.

And even if he didn't destroy it, it somehow survived the zerg rampage fully operational.

[Turalyon]

I thought it was well-established long ago that the Psi-Disruptor was a lame plot device already, much like the Xel'Naga Temple that came before in the previous episode and later on, in the artifacts for WoL. If the thing could be dismantled and rebuilt such that it works the same as it did without much trouble, there's an underlying assumption the tech is well understood enough such that I don't see why they just couldn't rebuild another one after it was destroyed. It's what happens when you centre stories around ill-conceived plot devices.

Apart from that, I assume that DuGalle wanted to keep the Psi-Disruptor around because he wasn't sure if the captured Overmind could rebel or not. He kept it around as a contingency just in case things went pear-shaped, especially since he already got burnt for not trusting Stukov advice (that and they suck at communication despite being best friends) the first time around. Also, in Fury of the Swarm, Kerrigan speculates the UED were having trouble controlling the Zerg when the mission involves killing the scientists responsible for controlling the "renegade" Zerg. This may indicate that the Psi-Disruptor is still useful to the UED after the capture of the Overmind since it gives them time to develop a stronger and/or easier method of control over it, whilst also disrupting Kerrigan's control. It's all speculation, I know, but that's all I got.

[DonnyZeDoof]

That, and Glynnis Campbell, the original Kerrigan voice, denied romance between the two.


Source?

[Turalyon]

Source?

Apparently here (http://web.archive.org/web/20061030072104/http://www.insomniacmania.com/interview_default.php?id=6). It's quite a stark opinion considering that she is a romance novelist as well!

[Gradius]

- The entire reason the UED were suspicious of the psi disruptor is because it could disrupt the zerg's control of their minions and thus threatened their goal to take control of the zerg via the Overmind... and then they keep it on during Episode VI? How come it shatters Kerrigan's broods but doesn't affect theirs?

Doesn't need explanation, especially since we don't fight any of their broods anyway before the disruptor is destroyed. If it affected theirs too much they obviously wouldn't use it.


- Aren't psi emitters supposed to lure zerg to them? Why do you need to take it to them, then, and how does that allow Kerrigan to control them when she apparently can't do it without the emitter. And the emitters reach across space, I doubt broadcast range was a concern at any point of this.
No, psi emitters emit a psi signal over space. The Overmind was looking for ghosts, so it sent zerg to where the signal was. The emitter itself doesn't lure zerg.

The disruptor disrupts control over zerg, and it's way more powerful than a tiny psi emitter, which is why Kerrigan has to bring it to them directly. It amplifies her hive mind signal.


- If the psi disruptor can apparently be built and reassembled, why not have it moved to Korhal? Then the UED only needs to worry on fortifying two planets instead of three. And let's not forget the airtight security around the damn thing's power generators
I can only assume that disassembling, moving, and reassembling takes up a huge chunk of time which would allow Kerrigan and the renegade broods to operate as normal, something the UED can't afford.

Also, Braxis could be closer to zerg space.


why random zerg were just wandering around the area.
There were zerg in the area when Duran tried to sabotage it, not that this needs explanation anyway. If I were to nitpick the existence of random things in SC2 the amount of issues would be multiplied by 1000.


- Kerrigan's "sneak attack" on Duke and Fenix begins with the death of a few random templar and civilians? How about send the swarm down their throats? We saw the devs come up with the valkyrie raid in Emperor's Flight, why not do that again here with an outlying base and that triggers the countdown to alert?
Because we're tired from battle too. And we did send the swarm down their throats, so what's the problem?


- Episode V ending? "Hi Admiral, I'm totally gonna go plot to overthrow you now. Bye!" and DuGalle lets her run off? Dude isn't that dumb I'd hope.
It's not that he let her run off (there are mutalisks fighting valkyries), it's that she told him about her plans to destroy the disruptor and he didn't do anything about it. Goes to say that he underestimated her.


I'm not going to harp on asking how the psi disruptor actually works or how the UED is able to control the zerg by doping up the Overmind, because SC's science is so silly it cannot be questioned. :p
SC's science wasn't an issue because we all knew it was unexplainable space magic, yet didn't outright violate known laws of physics.. But then SC2 comes around and we get stupid crap that is physically impossible like metal beams that help support a planet, or the world's slowest supernova explosion, etc.



On more casual conversation, looking at the original game makes me realize how simplistic the first one was in terms of map making. The first SC really had no in-map cutscenes, the closest thing to one is the end of Terran 9, most of the "cutscenes" have units appear and the game pause as speech rolls. Really, vanilla Starcraft is boring from a technical standpoint.

Brood War? Hell, the Escape From Aiur alone has small-scale battles throughout the map as you find wandering zealots. Then you ramp things up to Aldaris' death, the entirety of Emperor's Fall with the ghosts and battlecruisers and Mengsk's escape with Raynor, Emperor's Flight with the opening Valkyrie raid, Raynor attacking the psi disruptor generators. It's like the developers realized "hey, we can do cool shit in-game!" when it slipped their minds in the first game.
That's generally what happens with expansions. In the original game there's a timetable to keep, but once the production pipelines become streamlined, the developers can crank out more quality content at a faster pace, allowing them to do cooler shit.

I learned this when making a campaign. There's too much crap to do with the first map: making art, sound and data assets. But after that, all you really have to worry about is the maps themselves.

[ragnarok]

Apparently here (http://web.archive.org/web/20061030072104/http://www.insomniacmania.com/interview_default.php?id=6). It's quite a stark opinion considering that she is a romance novelist as well!

You think she might have changed her mind later down the road?

[Turalyon]

You think she might have changed her mind later down the road?

That's not the point. What is the point, is that Glynnis is on the record for saying she did not see the Raynor and Kerrigan relationship as being romantic.

[ragnarok]

That's not the point. What is the point, is that Glynnis is on the record for saying she did not see the Raynor and Kerrigan relationship as being romantic.

The fans had a different opinion, which is fine if Blizzard didn't take it as far as it was shown in HotS.

[TheEconomist]

I played StarCraft about five hundreds times. Never did I imagine that the relationship was as deep as it was. Why? Because it wasn't. It was a retcon. That's even before you consider that Jim had determined to kill Kerrigan at the end of Brood War.

[ragnarok]

I played StarCraft about five hundreds times. Never did I imagine that the relationship was as deep as it was. Why? Because it wasn't. It was a retcon. That's even before you consider that Jim had determined to kill Kerrigan at the end of Brood War.

And that determination turned to guilt afterwards, Blizzard just forgot to tell us this

[Aldrius]

Well I think WoL is supposed to have this undercurrent of 'will he actually go through with his promise to kill her'. And it's supposed to be subtle, it's just so subtle it's basically not even there.

And then in Heart they threw in that stupid 'you swore to kill the Queen of Blades' line, just to appease the fans. It wasn't a natural moment in any way shape or form.

Raynor and Kerrigan were obviously supposed to have a connection, and I think they had some feelings for each other. But this whole intense, soul mate romance is just... it doesn't make any sense. They probably knew one another for all of a few months at most. And even before becoming the Queen of Blades Kerrigan was a ruthless rebel assassin, and Raynor is a small-town Marshall. They're from totally different worlds; he doesn't and couldn't understand who she is at all. And that's BEFORE she became an infested galactic overlord.

Like it's an interesting story, but it had it's place. And it massively oversteps it's bounds in Wings of Liberty and it's even worse in Swarm; it's the primary character's entire motivation and it just doesn't work.

Plus it's so frustrating because a major theme, Kerrigan's whole arc in Brood War is that she's evolved beyond her human connections. But they just hit the reset button on that in SC2.

[Sheliek]

Honestly, Brood War and ESPECIALLY SC2 are the best argument in favour of not improvising a series' story as you get to a given installment in gaming history.

Like seriously, even if you don't know you're making a series during the creation of the first entry, if room for a sequel exists, make sure the plot is finished so that you haven't forgotten what you were considering as you wrote the original (every writer has had the 'what happens next though' more than once -- write that shit down!). You can always recycle elements in something else if that series doesn't work, and can of course modify the general stuff as it comes time to work on the sequel.