Opinion on Upgrading or buying new comps

[Draco97]

Hey everyone, I was looking for your opinion about this. My computer right now isn't bad, but it could be a lot better, and the Sc2 delay gives me more time, so...

Do you think its more cost-effective to upgrade the computer piece by piece, or should I just buy a whole new computer.

Currently I have:




My System Specifications:

* Operating system:Windows 2.5.1.2600 (SP 3)
* CPU type: Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 3.00GHz
* CPU Speed (GHz):3.012
* System memory (GB):2.998
* Graphics card model:NVIDIA GeForce 8400 GS
* Graphics card driver:nv4_disp.dll
* Desktop resolution:1280x1024
* Hard disk size (GB):149.04

(got it from the battle.net site)

So yeah, if I do upgrades, I'm looking for a new video card and a new CPU. I'm debating either duo or quad core, but if I somehow find a great deal, I'll get an i7 (if it'll even go into this comp, it's a Dell Dimension 8400, got it about 5 years ago)

It currently runs games like Sins of a Solar Empire, World in Conflict and Dawn of War 2 pretty well until later game when a lot of crap starts flying, especially Sins in late game and WiC when artillery is blowing the hell out of the landscape.

So...upgrades or just save up and buy a whole new comp? Opinions?

[dynamiK-]

A lot of it depends on your motherboard and what it can support.

You definitely want a new video card for starters. I got an 8800 gt oc 512 mb about 13 months ago. It was a huge upgrade from the 7600 card. I'm not a very techy person though, so sorry :P

I imagine if your motherboard is five years old then it might not be able to support some of hardware people are using today, such as quad-core. You might need a new power supply to handle a new video card. I'd try speaking to some computer savvy person you know.

[Norfindel]

1- Do games run with poor framerates? = Consider to upgrade video
2- Do you run out of disk? = new hdd
3- Do your computer swap to disk constantly? = more RAM
4- Do you run computing-intensive applications, that make your computer unresponsive? = faster processor

If you need to change too much of that, maybe it's easier to sell your entire computer and buy a new one.

In your case, probably it's a video issue. If you're going to change it yourself, make sure that your new board is compatible with your motherboard (if it's AGP, or PCI Express, for example). You could take your motherboard manual with you and ask the seller for a compatible board. You have graphic performance charts here: http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/graphics-cards,1.html . The problem is making sure your power supply won't blow with the new card. How much power does it have?

I don't think that buying a processor with a lot of cores help too much, unless you plan to run very heavy computing-intensive applications that are made to work with multiple processors. Games generally benefit better from a faster processor than from a processor with a lot of cores.

A lot of things are incompatible with a lot of things, specially if you buyed a branded computer that sometimes include nonstandard power supplies or motherboards.

[Xyvik]

Norfindel has laid it out quite nicely, actually. If you're looking to upgrade your GFX card, the best bang for buck at the moment has been ATI cards, specifically the 4870/4850.

You can get a darn good gaming system going AMD/ATi for quite cheap. Intel/Nvidia are currently the more expensive options and they tend to not be worth the extra money (unless you're fanboys of either).

I just built a gaming machine for less than $600 for a client and it can handle FEAR at 1280x1024 at High settings with pretty good framerates. It all really depends on how much money you want to spend. If you've got thousands of dollars to kill, go for the top dogs of intel/nvidia and overspend. You'll have a massive system that can kill any game.

If you don't have thousands of dollars to kill, go a bit more mainstream. You can find good mainstream Intel/Nvidia systems, but for the last four years I have been recommending the opposite to clients and I have yet to have a problem with it.

So that no fanboys decide to start a flame war, I just said "recommend." It is all up to the client, of course.

[Syrilus]

First of all it strongly depends on what exactly you want to upgrade.
I would strongly advise you to wait if you're going to buy some new hardware.
Intel will release the new i5 cores soon (next few months probably) and then prices for other cpu's will be much cheaper.

As for graphic cards you probably want to wait too. Amd announced that they will release their new radeon directx11 series probably even before the Windows 7 launch so again older gpu's will get cheaper. Since your system is in my opinion quite ok just take your time with buying a new stuff.

What's more I would advise you to buy hardware rather in pieces than to buy a whole pc because in many situations you will spend less money.

I have acutally the same problem since my pc is totally outdated

I've got:

Pentium 4 2.80 ghz
Geforce 6200
1 gig ram

I'm still happy with my system since I'm able to play starcraft and use my pc for other activities like surfing the web and office applications. :)

cheers

[spychi]

First of all a good motherboard and a decent PSU - if you will go cheap on that hardware you will be unsuccessful in building your own RIG.

Chipsets: X48, 780SLI, 790SLI, P45
Since I would advice you to stick with intel based CPU's, I will give examples of good mobos with socket placement for those processors.
X48: Gigabyte DQ6, Asus P5E Deluxe, Asus Rampage (if you can afford it), Foxconn Blackops, DFI LanParty UT X48
780SLi: ASUS P5N72-T PREMIUM, EVGA 780i SLI FTW
790 SLi: ASUS STRIKER II 790I SLI
P45: Asus P5Q3 Deluxe, GA-EP45-EXTREME, DFI LanParty DK P45 PLUS 6Phaze

PSU: Tagan, OCZ, Chieftec, Corsair - nothing else
Recommended OCZ 600W Extreme


CPU (higher better): C2Quad Q6600, C2Q Q9300, C2Q Q9400, C2D E8600, C2D E8500, C2Q Q9550, Q2Q Q9650

If you are thinking about i7, wait for the price drop, I wouldn't recommend you to buy one right now. Soon (5 months) i3, i5 and i9 will be out and i7 is getting cheaper every day.

If you can afford i7 right now:
CPU i7 920
Mobo: Asus P6T, Gigabyte GA-X58-UD3R, MSI Eclipse, Asus Rampage II Extreme

Memory - if i7 than 6GB DDR3 from Corsair, G-Skill or OCZ
Keep in mind that: X48 790 sli and 780 i SLi based mobos are using DDR3 as well but dual-channel (so I would advice you to go for 4GB)
if you are going for DDR2 than 4GB from Corsair, G-Slill, OCZ or Kingston, depends on the mobo 800MHz clock is the minimum nowadays, I would recommend you to go for 1066MHz


GPU's:
depends on your monitor's resolution
if you will have non HD LCD from 17" up to 20" the GPU should have 512MB of VRAM, if you are going for bigger LCDs with HD or full HD stick with GPU's which have 1GB of VRAM

for smaller monitors (higher better):
ATI: HD 3870, HD 4770, HD 4850 512MB, HD 4870 512MB
nVidia: 9600GT, 9800GTX+, GTS250, GTX260 would be good as well

bigger monitors (higher better):
ATI: HD 4850 1GB, HD 3870X2, HD 4870 1GB, HD 4890, HD 4850X2, HD 4870X2
nVidia: 9800X2, GTX260, GTX275, GTX280, GTX285, GTX,295
I would recommend you to stick with ATI since those are cheaper and have the same performance - for example HD 4870 1GB is cheaper than GTX260 and has the same performence (sometimes 4870 is better in tests with few FPS advantage, sometimes GTX260 with few frame rates higher)

Case: Cooler Master CM690 - I wouldn't recommend you buying any other one than that box
CPU cooler - Scythe Ninja 2 or Noctua NH-U12P

If I would buy a new RIG right now I would buy:
600W OCZ Extreme
ASUS RAMPAGE EXTREME X48
CPU: Q9650
GPU: VAPOR-X SAPPHIRE RADEON HD4890
Memory: OCZ 2x2GB DDR3 1600 Reaper

But right now the only thing I want to change in my RIG is my mobo, instead of that poor P5N-D 750SLi chipset I will buy or ASUS RAMPAGE EXTREME X48 or Foxconn BLACKOPS

[Draco97]

Thanks for the input guys. I'll post with more detail later today as I'm insanely busy moving out of my girlfriends and I's apartment

[Draco97]

Ok, sorry about that, yesterday was...crazy, to say the least.

Anyway,

Spychi, do you think that a quad-core is the way to go? I was debating between that and a duo and I wasn't sure which one was truly better. If I do get an i7 it'll be when I get a new computer, even with price drops i7's are too rich for me right now.

What I'll probably end up doing is going with a high end Radeon for now, I'm browsing eBay and Amazon for good deals on those. I'll try to see if my computer can actually upgrade to a duo/quad core processor, and if so, I'll do that. If not, I'll probably get a new motherboard and upgrade my RAM and other things to get more out of it.

If all else fails, then I'll save up for a whole new computer lol.

Speaking of, does anyone have any favorite PC gaming sites? I.E. cyberpower or whatnot.

P.S. If I had 20,000 to burn I would so buy the ultimate gaming rig from Alienware...not having a lot of money sucks

[spychi]

Just give me the numbers of money to spend on your rig and I could write a good build for your RIG.


Quad-Core vs Dual Core well... I have a Q6600 and I am happy with the OC, from 2.44 I went up to 3.2 stable on stock and 3.4 stable on Scythe Ninja 2.
However if I had to choose between Q9650 and C2D E8600 I would buy the Quad.

If you are looking for a high end GPU than that 4890 from Sapphire with Vapor-X cooler would be the best right now price/performance.
You can easly OC the core up to 1GHz (sick)!.

[Syrilus]

I strongly believe that you won't fail bulilding your own pc, when you inform yourself good enough.

As for grapihc's card I would probaby buy the Sapphire Vapor-X Radeon HD 4890 2gig

http://geizhals.at/deutschland/a442155.html

As for cpu a quad-core would probably the best solution for a propper gaming pc. i7 of course has higher performances but costs more money.


My favourite gaming sites are : - gametrailers.com
- gamestar.de (german)
- sclegacy.com ;)
- ign.com

[spychi]

I would recommend you to view www.guru3d.com
best reviews for hardware

[Draco97]

As far as price range...I would think somewhere between 500 and 1200. That could of course be increased depending on how much/how long I save money.

I'll check out those sites and see what I can come up with. The main problem I think could happen is that it's a Dell computer, and I heard how anal they can be, although I haven't had any major issues with it right now

[Xyvik]

do you think that a quad-core is the way to go? I was debating between that and a duo and I wasn't sure which one was truly better.

To be perfectly honest very few applications, even (or sometimes especially) games, take full advantage of a quad-core setup. Sure you're future-proofing yourself, but if the main purpose of your new rig is to play games, primary SC2, then a dual-cores are cheaper and will do the job without any noticable differences.

As an example, the sub $600 machine I just got for my client has a dual-core AMD Phenom II X2 550 Black Edition for $105. It sits stock at 3.1 but with the ASUS motherboard I got him he overclocked it up to 3.9 with just a couple of keystrokes in his BIOS and he hasn't had a problem since. It handles any game he throws at it.

I tend to do a couple of test games with clients who purchase gaming rigs and I did some LAN Supreme Commander, just to test him out. We had MAX unit count going on one of the eight-player maps and his rig didn't even really blink. It hiccuped a couple of times, but then again so did my $1500 rig, so that's to be expected.

Best bang for buck is still dual-core. I mean, I've had a Phenom II 550 hitting 4.5 OC with air-cooling and not having problems. For $105 you simply can't go wrong with that.

[EvilGenius]

I strongly believe that you won't fail bulilding your own pc, when you inform yourself good enough.

As for grapihc's card I would probaby buy the Sapphire Vapor-X Radeon HD 4890 2gig

http://geizhals.at/deutschland/a442155.html

As for cpu a quad-core would probably the best solution for a propper gaming pc. i7 of course has higher performances but costs more money.


My favourite gaming sites are : - gametrailers.com
- gamestar.de (german)
- sclegacy.com ;)
- ign.com

I have a friend who just built an AMD quad core, and used a 1gb 4890 - it blows the pants off of everything out there - unless you want to go all out and get a GTX 295 for $500... (the 4890's really the faster card, isn't it? I think it only has 1 GPU while the 295 has 2 - correct me if i'm wrong)

Any way, core i7 quad, ddr3 ram, and a board with 2-3 pcie slots.

Make sure you've got a beast of a power supply in there too. the 4890 isn't exactly a low power consumption card.

[Draco97]

Sounds like I'm going to have to take power supply into account, I never really considered it to upgrade before.

So I'm looking at:

a new power supply
Radeon 4890
new cpu (more than likely duo if a quad doesn't make that much difference)
possible motherboard upgrade
RAM If I do a motherboard upgrade.

I'll check a few sites like cyberpower and newegg to see price ranges for these items and whole new computers and see what turns up.

[spychi]

C2D E8600 or E8400 nothing else is worthy.
OCZ extreme 600W (it will not use that much power, don't worry)
Asus P5E Deluxe x48 chipset or P5Q Deluxe P45 chipset
DDR2 2x2GB OCZ Dual Channel
and if you have a HD or Full HD monitor (1600x1200 or higher) 4890 from Sapphire Vappor-X
Scythe Ninja 2
and Cooler Master CM690
You will have a great RIG, even Crysis with DX10 and 1600x1200 will not be a problem

[Xyvik]

C2D E8600 or E8400 nothing else is worthy.
Asus P5E Deluxe x48 chipset or P5Q Deluxe P45 chipset


You know, I just had to come in here and contest this. Spychi, your statement has no basis in reality I am afraid.

E8600 = $269.00

At those prices he is purchasing an inferior Core 2 Duo...a dual-core processor. If the price was right, dual-core processors are excellent. In this case, the price is wrong (quoth Happy Gilmore)

For almost $70 cheaper he can get the Phenom II X4 955 Black Edition, which is a quad-core, and overclock to the 4+ gigahertz with just air cooling, and he will simply blast the E8600 out of the water in every benchtest except professional editing software like Maya. Since he's purchasing this to game, there is no way in heaven's name he should even consider an E8600 at those prices.

I don't want to be considered an inciter of flame wars, but in this case I'd hate even more to see somebody waste good money when there are far better alternatives in mind.

The choice is yours Draco, but please make sure you look at your alternatives before you purchase anything.

[spychi]

Understand that at tests Phenom II x4 is even worst at stock clock than a Q6600
It's not about GHz only

http://forums.amd.com/game/messageview.cfm?catid=259&threadid=106233
however E8600 is worst than that Phenom II

check this site:
http://benchit.pl/procesory/ranking


Also AMD based mobos are not that good, as far as I see... I wouldn't buy a AMD core nowadays. The CPUs are good, don't get me wrong but it's all about motherboards that are bit crappy.

Only worth mobo I would buy for AMD Phenom II
http://allegro.pl/item708385647_foxconn_nvidia_nforce_780a_sli_am2_a m2_sklep_wwa.html

[Xyvik]

Understand that at tests Phenom II x4 is even worst at stock clock than a Q6600
It's not about GHz only

http://forums.amd.com/game/messageview.cfm?catid=259&threadid=106233
however E8600 is worst than that Phenom II

check this site:
http://benchit.pl/procesory/ranking


Also AMD based mobos are not that good, as far as I see... I wouldn't buy a AMD core nowadays. The CPUs are good, don't get me wrong but it's all about motherboards that are bit crappy.

Only worth mobo I would buy for AMD Phenom II
http://allegro.pl/item708385647_foxconn_nvidia_nforce_780a_sli_am2_a m2_sklep_wwa.html

In most cases I would actually agree with you, however, the AMD chipsets are actually better than the Nvidia ones nowadays, so actually the best MOBOs are exclusively for AMD.

I got my client a ASUS M4A79 Deluxe and it's been doing wonders for him. I'm actually seriously considering getting it for my own next build it's been so nice. It's running the AMD 790FX NB and AMD SB750 chipsets which have gathered enormous respect in the tech industry.

I'm not against Intel, I just build budget systems for my clients. Best bang for buck is still in the AMD field and I doubt that will change any time soon. But if you have the money to spare there really is no better processor on the planet than the i7.

Oh, and at tests, I've been testing them myself for eight years now. I don't follow the conclusions of -any- online test reviewers...I've yet to find one that isn't biased, either direction. I test mine myself over an exhaustive 4day marathon of every CPU/Memory/GFX test there is. My Phenom II 955 is the best CPU for its price that I've come across in years.

So in conclusion: when doing a budget build, go for the Triple A: AMD, ATi, Asus. When doing a killer rig with plenty of money to spare, go i7.

[spychi]

So in conclusion: when doing a budget build, go for the Triple A: AMD, ATi, Asus. When doing a killer rig with plenty of money to spare, go i7.

ATI and Asus yes but really Intel CPU's are great as well, overpriced a bit but hey you pay for something good.
The RIG I've created would be great, he wasn't sure about Quad CPU's so I gave him a C2D. But for me: Q6600, Q9400 or Q9550 (or even Q9650 if you can afford it) and you need nothing else.

[Syrilus]

As an example, the sub $600 machine I just got for my client has a dual-core AMD Phenom II X2 550 Black Edition for $105. It sits stock at 3.1 but with the ASUS motherboard I got him he overclocked it up to 3.9 with just a couple of keystrokes in his BIOS and he hasn't had a problem since. It handles any game he throws at it.



Xyvik, which graphic card is placed in the pc? You are only talking about the cpu which is not the main hardware considering games, as graphic cards do their job in displaying games.

I would also say that Asus and ATI are trustable and qualtiy brands and in my opinion Intel creates more awesome cpu's like i7 than AMD.

Back on topic,

Draco97 I would again advise you to wait with buying a new rig or complete pc.

Intel will release their new i5 and i7 cores soon (hopefully) and then the core 2 duo series will fiirstly get a lot cheaper and you could also consider buying a core i5.

Core i5 is basicly the follower of the core i7 series, which is the high end series at the moment and the i5 would be rather middle class series and cheaper to buy.

What's more since SC2 will be realeased 2010, you can take your time and wait since you probably want to buy the latest and cheapest hardware on the market.

Furthermore AMD announced that their new directx11 graphic cards will be released at the same time as Windows 7 will be and as a result of that you are again able to buy cheaper graphic cards and even windows 7 if you want.

I'm having the same "problem" since I want to buy a new pc rig and I have decided to wait.

I'm however not quite sure what the significant differences between Intel's core 2 quad and intel i7 are. (only thing I know is that intel i7 is able to handle 8 threads, whatever that means :) )

Could someone tell me ?

greetings at all !

[spychi]

i7 has true 4 cores, while Core2Quads have 2 cores with 2 eggs on every one of them.
Phenom II has also 4 cores, but the cores themselfs are not that powerfull as i7
i5 will be cheap and great, better than c2q and cheap (price/performance)
32nm ATI's graphic cards will bring revolution in OC, low temps and performance.
Right now ATI and Intel are the future of cheap gaming rigs.
nVidia is more expensive and has the same performance.
I was happy with the SLI 9600GT's but having a single card or a single core card is way much better, so I've buyed the 4870 1GB which is great.

[Norfindel]

ATI and Asus yes but really Intel CPU's are great as well, overpriced a bit but hey you pay for something good.
The RIG I've created would be great, he wasn't sure about Quad CPU's so I gave him a C2D. But for me: Q6600, Q9400 or Q9550 (or even Q9650 if you can afford it) and you need nothing else.
That depends on what do you need the computer for. If you need the fastest processing available, go Intel. If you need low power, low heat, and very good integrated graphics, go for AMD.
The reason AMD chipsets have better efficiency is this:

One of the most noteworthy features of the AMD chipset is its low power consumption. The chipset is rated at a TDP of only 10 Watts, which is due in large part to its 65 nm production process. For reference, Intel's chipsets are rated at a TDP of 26 Watts and use a 90 nm process.
(source: Toms Hardware (http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/spider-weaves-web,1728-17.html))
That's because they buyed ATI, so they have a lot of manufacturing plants capable of 65 nm (wasn't 55 nm? i think there's a typo there) production, and they can use them for chipsets.

[Syrilus]

That depends on what do you need the computer for. If you need the fastest processing available, go Intel. If you need low power, low heat, and very good integrated graphics, go for AMD.
The reason AMD chipsets have better efficiency is this:

(source: Toms Hardware (http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/spider-weaves-web,1728-17.html))
That's because they buyed ATI, so they have a lot of manufacturing plants capable of 65 nm (wasn't 55 nm? i think there's a typo there) production, and they can use them for chipsets.

Hm could you tell me what the whole deveoloping process in 65 nm or 55nm or even 45 nm means ? Is this only for gpu or cpu aswell?

@ Draco97: Have you decided what to do ? Actually if you want to spend between 500 and 1200 $ for getting a new rig you could get the smallest i7 920 (250 $ or cheaper) or even 950 (new) as a cpu and would actually be fine with gpu and mainboard aswell. Gpu would my advise be Sapphire Vapor-x HD 4890 2gig for about 210 $. As mainboard maybe ASUS P6T Deluxe V2 X58 socket 1366 ATX. Finally of course soundcard CREATIVE SB X-Fi Xtreme, RAM (corsair is a good brand in my opinion), dvd drive (Samsung for instance) + HDD (seagate good brand, i believe) + fan (I can't recommend a brand here because I'm not very much into fans although they are important :) ).. hope I forgot nothing.

What's the others opinions ?

greetings

[Gradius]

Hm could you tell me what the whole deveoloping process in 65 nm or 55nm or even 45 nm means ? Is this only for gpu or cpu aswell?
I think it's a manufacturing process (smaller numbers mean more precision which means better ability to fit more components onto the chip).

[spychi]

Not only GPU's but CPU's and Mobo's.

Smaller manufacturing process = less heat, less power consumption, better OC, lower prices

[Syrilus]

I see. Thanks for the explanation. So acutally waiting for new hardware to arrive at the market is probably really the best.

More smaller manufacturing process = better off ;) And intel i5 this year and Radeon Dx11 graphic cards plus Windows 7

spychi do you mean mainbords with " mobo's " ?

And Oc probably means Overclocking. Ah ok now I get it.

[spychi]

.

More smaller manufacturing process = better off ;) And intel i5 this year and Radeon Dx11 graphic cards plus Windows 7



Yup, building a RIG with W7 system is a great idea
Asus - best mobos
ATI - cheap, great cards
Intel - strong CPU's
OCZ & Corsair - great memory and PSU

[Draco97]

Draco97 I would again advise you to wait with buying a new rig or complete pc.

Yeah I agree. Some of my problem is that I'm impatient and I want stuff now now now, lol. Honestly I'm not sure what I'll. Short term, upgrading is definitely the best option. In long term a new computer with an i7 is really the way to go because I'll be able to ensure I'll be able to run most if not all programs/games. I'll think about it, since there's a very real possibility that sc2 won't come out until may-July next year and that will give me a lot of time to save.

Couple questions. How much power supply should I look at? I was looking at a 750 watt supply but wasn't sure if it was too much or too little. Also, is intel that much better than AMD, or is AMD the best bang for my buck right now?

Thanks for all the help guys.

[spychi]

600W or 700W and you are fine, the RIG will probably not use that much power.

Lol I just read about the fastest stock CPU and AMD will be owner, at the start it will have 3.4GHz and it will be called Phenom II X4 965, sooo I would change my mind, cause that little baby will be better than any C2Quad from Intel.
13 August is the premiere

[Syrilus]

Woow, yeah the new Phenom will really blast intels core 2 quad. But the intel i7 975 XE i think is the high-end cpu at the moment.

And yeah I agree with you Draco, regarding this I'm also impatient with buying some new stuff since I finally want to get my hands on Crysis, a great game.

I would rather say that 700 Watt are more than enough since you won't use SLI or crossfire cards immediatly probably.

One should not forget that you should buy rigs were you are able to upgrade on the latest hardware so you have your motherboard more longer.

I'm also excited about the new dx11 graphic cards from ATI Radeon. Think that Nvidia will loose again some customers.

[Xyvik]

600W or 700W and you are fine, the RIG will probably not use that much power.

Lol I just read about the fastest stock CPU and AMD will be owner, at the start it will have 3.4GHz and it will be called Phenom II X4 965, sooo I would change my mind, cause that little baby will be better than any C2Quad from Intel.
13 August is the premiere

Indeed, that's the baby I'm waiting for to do my next PC upgrade :D

The funny thing is, even though I tend to prefer AMD, the i7 will still outperform the 965 when it comes to number-crunching and technical applications like Maya, 3DS Max, etc. But those 3.4 stock ghz are a wonderful thing for gamers.

I hate to be patient when it comes to upgrades (my graphics card is legacy support...LEGACY! *sob*) but really, the best bet is what Syrilus has been recommending: wait a few months and you'll be able to get a Phenom II 965 AND a Direct X 11 Radeon card, and you'll be set for the next couple years, easy. :)

[Draco97]

That's good to know, I'll suck it up and wait and see what all comes out. Sc2 and Diablo 3 are the only computer games coming out that I'm really interested in, and Sc2 won't be out for almost a year, and DIII who knows how long.

Again thanks for all the help guys. I may actually be considering an AMD computer even though I've been an Intel person ever since I got into computers, lol.

[Xyvik]

That's good to know, I'll suck it up and wait and see what all comes out. Sc2 and Diablo 3 are the only computer games coming out that I'm really interested in, and Sc2 won't be out for almost a year, and DIII who knows how long.

Again thanks for all the help guys. I may actually be considering an AMD computer even though I've been an Intel person ever since I got into computers, lol.

Glad to be of assistance :)

The funny thing is, I was pure Intel/Nvidia myself for the first three/four years of building computers, but in the last four years I've discovered that you really can't be an "intel" person or an "amd" person. It really boils down to what is currently available and what you need your hardware to do. Each side has their pluses, and right now AMD/ATi is the gamer's choice. If you asked what you should upgrade if you were a graphics professional, I'd say go Intel/ATi or Intel/Nvidia, easy. But you're not, you're gaming, so I suggest AMD.

All I really ever try to do is help people to look past what seems to be the only option. For many people, Intel is all they know. If I can persuade them to at least be -aware- of alternatives, in this case AMD, then I can say I've done my job well. :cool:


But yes...the waiting...oh good lord, the WAITING! I hate it :mad:

[Syrilus]

First of all no problem Draco97, it was (still is) a pleasure.

And Xyvik I can't quite accept your statement here. I mean you are right that Intel is more popular than AMD, however I strongly believe that you can't generalize that AMD/ATI is the gamer's choice. You need to clarify here that the advantage of this combination is rather that the components are much cheaper compared to Intel/Nvidia.

So basically said AMD/ATI is rather for gamers who want to have the perfect cost/performance ratio. If you want to go totally high-end gaming Intel/nvidia has the better hardware but you have to pay for their stuff. A lot.

As far as I know Intel and Nvidia have currently the better high-end hardware on the market. For instance nVidia Geforce 295 GTX as for GPU and Intel Core i7 975 XE CPU is probably the most high-end combination at the moment. Costs are however about 1400 $ for just those 2 components. That's simply too much.

I'm hopefully not trying to be perfectly correct now, since I don't want to talkt you down Xyvik but just clarify a bit. As far as I'm concerned, I'm rather ATI + Intel orientated because Nvidia GPU's give you the same performance than ATI's but cost a lot more. Intel or AMD i'm not quite sure yet, both choices offer advantages and disadvantages and I'll have to find out which fits best to my wishes.

It's good that people also get to know alternatives like AMD cpu's. I completely agree with you here.

[Xyvik]

First of all no problem Draco97, it was (still is) a pleasure.

And Xyvik I can't quite accept your statement here. I mean you are right that Intel is more popular than AMD, however I strongly believe that you can't generalize that AMD/ATI is the gamer's choice. You need to clarify here that the advantage of this combination is rather that the components are much cheaper compared to Intel/Nvidia.

So basically said AMD/ATI is rather for gamers who want to have the perfect cost/performance ratio. If you want to go totally high-end gaming Intel/nvidia has the better hardware but you have to pay for their stuff. A lot.

As far as I know Intel and Nvidia have currently the better high-end hardware on the market. For instance nVidia Geforce 295 GTX as for GPU and Intel Core i7 975 XE CPU is probably the most high-end combination at the moment. Costs are however about 1400 $ for just those 2 components. That's simply too much.

I'm hopefully not trying to be perfectly correct now, since I don't want to talkt you down Xyvik but just clarify a bit. As far as I'm concerned, I'm rather ATI + Intel orientated because Nvidia GPU's give you the same performance than ATI's but cost a lot more. Intel or AMD i'm not quite sure yet, both choices offer advantages and disadvantages and I'll have to find out which fits best to my wishes.

It's good that people also get to know alternatives like AMD cpu's. I completely agree with you here.

Oh hey, don't worry, I don't think you're talking me down, and my words probably did need a little clarifying.

Pretty much I consider "Gamer's Choice" to be a combination of factors, the most important one being most bang for buck. As gamers we tend to spend money on our games and not have bucketloads of cash to spare, especially the way the economy in America is (and the rest of the world is pretty bad too).

As such I almost always recommend to gamers to go the best bang for buck so they have money left over to buy the games they're going to be playing with their machine.

If money is no option, however, then Intel and Nvidia are your obvious choices, because yes at the moment they are the best hardware. But especially in Nvidia's case you're going to be spending several hundreds of dollars extra just for a handful of FPS counts at resolutions most gamers can't even touch.

The i7 is king of processors, but it is also a very interesting situation. If you spend $1000 for a processor (which is inexcusable unless you have the money) you're going to have a processor that can smash anything you throw at it, including professional software.

But the Phenom II 965 has the highest base clock speed at 3.6. That is an excellent number for gamers because games tend to not require the massive hyperthreading and intricate calculations that professional software does. For a pure gaming standpoint, the 965 is a better processor than the i7 because the 965's 3.6 gigahertz are what I term "gaming gigahertz;" they are the kind of speed that directly rates to games AND it doesn't cost 1K.

That would be what I meant by Gamer's Choice :)

[Draco97]

Do you have a rough price range for the new Phenom and/or other higher end AMD processors? I'm not sure what's what in the AMD "world" so it's a little harder for me to find what I need to.

[Xyvik]

Do you have a rough price range for the new Phenom and/or other higher end AMD processors? I'm not sure what's what in the AMD "world" so it's a little harder for me to find what I need to.

Here's some links for your best options, from top-dog to lower-end. Each of these will give you bang-for-buck. The end product is always your own, so these are just for reference :)

Phenom II X4 965 Black Edition $249.00 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103692)

PhIIX4 955 BE $199.00 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103674)

PhIIX3 720 BE $119.00 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103649)

PhIIX2 550 BE $102.99 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103680)

I almost always recommend the Black Editions because of their awesome overclock potential. If you have any more questions though, feel free to PM me. I never mind helping fellow gamers find a machine that works for them :)

[spychi]

Go for that high end one 965"
It's cheap

[Draco97]

Thanks so much. I'll definitely check those out.

[Draco97]

Sorry for thr double post.

Has anyone heard of vigor gaming? It's a site like cyberpower but deals exclusively with AMD. I'm not doing anything with it right now but was wondering if anyone had anything good to say about it.

[Maul]

Pentium 4? TBH I haven't read the rest of the replies but getting a new computer would be optimal as you're only going to be able to get a faster P4 chip, which is terrible by todays standards. GL with whatever you choose to do